Filed under: Happiness Loneliness
Question:
"Michaela" <michaelashouse> wrote in message <news:416311cf.0@news1.mweb.co.za>… > Yes. I don’t see myself as Buddha despite me > believing it is the way to go. Having said that, this > weekend for some reason I suddenly remembered > my last relationship. > (You might want to skip the next paragraphs, > it’s just something I want to talk about.)
Oh, goody! Implicit in all one’s pronouncements are one’s own experiences, and it’s nice to have them out in the open for further investigation. > My bf had gone to the army (we had conscription > in those days). He spent around three months away > from me initially for basic training. I went to visit > him and on my return I was mammothly despondent. > I happened to be on the same plane as someone I knew > who had also been visiting her bf. I told her how > depressed I was. She seemed quite cheerful. I asked her > how come she wasn’t all upset like I was. She told me > she wasn’t all that dependent on her bf.
Yes, but it could also have been the case that she didn’t "care" all that much, either. As a matter of fact, there’s a funny "reverse psychology mode" many people go into where they profess and act the opposite of what they really are or do or feel or believe. Of course, for the sake of argument, we’ll take her word at face-value — but it’s always helpful to keep in mind that people certainly have their motivations for the stances or attitudes they adopt. > At that time what she said meant nothing to me. Today > I feel silly when I think of how I was behaving. Even > though I am somewhat dependent on Mike, I think that > I may have grown a little bit.
Yes, I too have become less codependent myself through the years. It’s a natural enough part of aging. A big part has to do with hormonal levels — much as they still rage, I am at least able to get a better handle on them, and I don’t attribute that solely to any psychological maturity on my part, but also to almost-certain stabilizing hormonal levels. Indeed, childhood insecurity also fuels the phenomenon. But I do often wonder whether that "codependency hand" or "card" isn’t rather overplayed. I’m just really into Claudia, and always will be. I’ve done all the second-guessing I can (and I’m one who can actually play a decent game of chess against himself every now and then, when I concentrate), and the one thing I am sure of is that I enjoy her sense of humor, which seems unique to me, and which seems an extension of her "soul"…so, for all my hurt and anguish (and anger), I know that I’d take her back — for many reasons, but, again, the main one being simply that she’s her! > See. Mike and I have been together for around twelve > years or more. For around three years, up until about > three or four years ago, he spent seven months and more > of the year working from his office in Mauritius. I was > happy as anything whether he was here or there.
Yeah, that’s a long time all right. > The difference between the relationship with my previous > bf and Mike? LOL. I dunno. Maybe I’ve "grown up"? > Or maybe it was because I’d got myself some hobbies > and kept myself busy and wasn’t as dependent on him > as I was on previous bf.
But I’ve got lots of hobbies and interests. Probably a function of my age ("function" in the mathematical sense of "relationship"), but I need more than hobbies now, I need more than simply being "busy." I still am into my hobbies — moreover, picking up old ones as well — but I do need that special someone in my life. But I honestly don’t think that need has made me codependent on Claudia. It’s difficult relating these things to others. If you aren’t crying blood, they think it must not have been that bad. If you do, then they think you’re codependent and need to, like, get a life. > Also, I’m pretty secure in my > rship with Mike. I pretty much know he’s not going > anywhere. I never truly knew where I stood with previous > bf.
Well, this is the thing. I thought I knew "where I stood" with Claudia! I mean, after four years, I figured that we were set for the long haul. She’s told me so many times how lucky she feels to have me, to be with me, that I keep taking her back (’cause she’s walked out several times before), that I take such good care of her, etc., as detailed elsewhere. Part of the problem is that I take words too seriously. And since she wasn’t one of many words, I guess I really valued the few she did use. Like someone else had said: women think men can change, and men think women don’t. One of Claudia’s final complaints to me was "I realize you’re never going to change"…which caught me by surprise, since I just didn’t think that she ever expected me to…and I, for my part, did figure that she wouldn’t ever change (I know that we all change, all life is change, etc. — I don’t mean that stuff here), that for a woman to say "I love you" is a real sign of something important — I mean, it’s not like she was just trying to get into my pants, right (and she’s always had my wallet) — that for a girl to propose marriage herself means something, something which had a lot to do with *me*…. So I had been pretty sure, too. But I am glad that you feel secure with your current situation. Inspiring. =) > Or maybe it’s this simple: I don’t have Mike on as much > of a pedestal as I did previous bf?
Depends by what you mean by "on a pedestal." I say all those "lovey-dovey" things about Claudia, but at the same time I do also believe that she isn’t the sharpest pencil in the box, as I’d said elsewhere. She’s also fat, just plain fat. But somehow all that doesn’t matter. Another problem with trying to communicate with a lot of folks: they assume that if I can say such things about her I must not "love" her very much and hence cannot possibly be putting her on some pedestal, whatever the wisdom of the act. And all I can say is that I don’t think I put her on a pedestal in the sense you mean. I’m fully cognizant of her shortcomings — same as I am of mine. But I can also fully enjoy the many good things about who she is. I guess it’s similar to singing life’s praises while also nodding that life is hard and unfair and usually tragic. > This much I *do* know: previous bf couldn’t handle my > excessive dependence on him and he felt smothered and > pressurised – because I didn’t seem to want to function > without him.
This is the funny thing. Claudia wanted me to be with her 24/7. I obliged, despite feeling a bit smothered at times, too (so I hardly went cycling, stopped working out completely, etc.). But I was happy, too, because I was there for her. We had fun together, etc. I could never understand — and still don’t, really — how a fella can complain of needing to "hang out with the guys" when he’s got a wife or wife-like-g/f. To me, that’s…family. That’s oneself, one’s proverbial "better half." At this point, I’m just feeling like, bleh. Damned if I do, damned if I don’t. Bleh. > I believe that a little bit of dependence is fine to keep a > rship going (but not in our growth in spiritual awareness).
It’s funny…the same New Age folk who will say that dependency is bad will also acknowledge that no one is an island. We’ll all be attached in some way. And you acknowledge that. And I’m glad we share at least a common point of departure for purposes of discussion. > Especially if it is mutual dependence. But as soon as one > person becomes too dependent on the other, the less > dependent one may start to crave space and will do anything > it takes to be shot of the other – or at least just to gain their > comfort space back. > Ok. The end and all that.
Not the case with me and Claudia, if that’s a logical implication of your remarks (whatever your conscious intent) — unless she actually did feel that way contrary to what she "should" have felt…for it may well be, oddly and amusingly enough, that in wanting to be with me, and yet not being able to on account of her son ("being with me" entailing living together with her son and thereby having him in the picture constantly), she wound up feeling "pressured" somehow…that she wanted to be with me, and yet couldn’t in the ideal way she’d like, and she transferred the pressure she was, in effect, putting on herself to me, that I was the one pressuring her…? But I definitely am not the one who "crowded" her. As a matter of fact, I only believe that one can feel "crowded" due to an inverse relationship with one’s level of "amorous interest"…if I love this person and am interested in her well-being, then even if it is only a childish insecurity on her part I will try to meet her needs for me to "be there" without complaint. But, as I say, I don’t know where I went wrong. Many theories, but in a sense no real idea. Now when I just kinda sit quietly, or like when waking up in the middle of the night and then just laying on the bed, I do get an almost indescribable sense of what happened…but what I mean by not knowing is that I don’t see why she should have quit me all the same, and like this. I mean, maybe she just did a coin toss?? > See. To me we are spiritual beings having a human experience, > not the other way ’round.
Ah, well, that’s a familiar perspective, cozy and heartening. > I don’t see it as "pop psychology" at all. I came to > my sub-conclusions (sorry about that word) when > I started to realise that people could only handle > having people as close to them as they were comfortable > with having them. As soon as anyone gets "too close > for comfort" most people devise all manner of ways > to push the other person away. Unfortunately, that > usually only results in the pushed person needing > approval more than before. Repeat cycle until needy > person is finally dumped.
What you describe does happen, but that’s not to say that things need to turn out that way, given the set-up you describe. There’s "normative" and there’s … read more »
Response:
Left Hand of Empire wrote: > "Michaela" wrote >> Not sure if I’m taking this all the right way, but here’s >> my two cents. >> I stand by my thoughts on idolatrous love. BUT that’s not >> to say I am above having them. Against my own advice >> out here, I seem to depend on Mike. I don’t think that being >> dependent on him is a bad thing as such, but I do believe >> that my belief that happiness can come from another is >> faulty. > In what sense is it "faulty"??
We obviously derive joy from others; > we’re social creatures, after all. > I actually agree with you about idolatrous love in general — > codependency — but I also maintain that there’s almost always going > to be a good dose of that involved,
Yes. I don’t see myself as Buddha despite me believing it is the way to go. Having said that, this weekend for some reason I suddenly remembered my last relationship. (You might want to skip the next paragraphs, it’s just something I want to talk about.) My bf had gone to the army (we had conscription in those days). He spent around three months away from me initially for basic training. I went to visit him and on my return I was mammothly despondent. I happened to be on the same plane as someone I knew who had also been visiting her bf. I told her how depressed I was. She seemed quite cheerful. I asked her how come she wasn’t all upset like I was. She told me she wasn’t all that dependent on her bf. At that time what she said meant nothing to me. Today I feel silly when I think of how I was behaving. Even though I am somewhat dependent on Mike, I think that I may have grown a little bit. See. Mike and I have been together for around twelve years or more. For around three years, up until about three or four years ago, he spent seven months and more of the year working from his office in Mauritius. I was happy as anything whether he was here or there. The difference between the relationship with my previous bf and Mike? LOL. I dunno. Maybe I’ve "grown up"? Or maybe it was because I’d got myself some hobbies and kept myself busy and wasn’t as dependent on him as I was on previous bf. Also, I’m pretty secure in my rship with Mike. I pretty much know he’s not going anywhere. I never truly knew where I stood with previous bf. Or maybe it’s this simple: I don’t have Mike on as much of a pedestal as I did previous bf? This much I *do* know: previous bf couldn’t handle my excessive dependence on him and he felt smothered and pressurised – because I didn’t seem to want to function without him. I believe that a little bit of dependence is fine to keep a rship going (but not in our growth in spiritual awareness). Especially if it is mutual dependence. But as soon as one person becomes too dependent on the other, the less dependent one may start to crave space and will do anything it takes to be shot of the other – or at least just to gain their comfort space back. Ok. The end and all that. simply given our nature as human > beings (not to mention individual dispositions — say, melancholic > folk). >> I have all that I need within me, but as long as I am >> on this earth I might believe I need it from outside of me >> (it occurs to me that many of us believe that god is "out >> there" I’m not even sure there is a god. But whatever it is >> we are pointing at isn’t "out there". It’s within us. And that’s >> where our thinking is wrong in the first place. Just thinking >> aloud.) > I myself wonder whether all that "pop psychology" actually applies in > real life…
See. To me we are spiritual beings having a human experience, not the other way ’round. I don’t see it as "pop psychology" at all. I came to my sub-conclusions (sorry about that word) when I started to realise that people could only handle having people as close to them as they were comfortable with having them. As soon as anyone gets "too close for comfort" most people devise all manner of ways to push the other person away. Unfortunately, that usually only results in the pushed person needing approval more than before. Repeat cycle until needy person is finally dumped. I mean, we’re just social animals, so there’s no helping > developing some kind of emotional attachment. In terms of degrees, I > do believe one can modulate that…but I can’t imagine how one might > truly "go solo" without feeling lonely — or getting a little crazy!
That’s what meditation is for methinks: stopping all that crazy negative self-talk. *** I think we’re all pretty screwed (read: insane) already. We seem to think we can become happy when we find someone to love. I have someone to love and I am not "classically" lonely, I have a wonderful support structure. I get on marvellously with my in-laws, I have crazy-beautiful friends, I have a daughter who is the centre of my whatever etc.), but still I feel that dull ache of loneliness; like I’m away from home or something. I often disguise this feeling with a cigarette/alcohol/ a good book or a walk in the mountains. But as soon as I have a few moments to think, it comes rushing back: emptiness. Osho and others have said that they are all for people having riches and loved ones around them. Because only when one has what one thinks one wants does one begin to realise that the answer isn’t in someone else or something we think we want – because that feeling of incompleteness doesn’t go away, even with someone to love around them all the time. Even with all the rich girl’s toys, that ache doesn’t seem to go. It’s only with those riches that one can see the contrast. I dunno. I seem to have lost the gist of what I am trying to say. >> I hope my message is in there somewhere. >> I hope you know I never intended to hurt you. >> – Michaela > Yes, I understood you, and no, I don’t imagine that you meant to hurt > me or anyone — I don’t think most people really mean to hurt anyone, > for that matter. They may not care whether they do, but most people > don’t seem to try to hurt anyone else who isn’t an enemy. > My only gripe there was that I felt implicated by your remarks — but > that’s not an indictment of your intentions at all. > And to you too I extend an apology for having reacted the way I did.
I never took offense in the first place, but thanks for the apology. It was only when I realised you may have been offended that I decided to respond as another helpless human being to another – I didn’t want to give the impression that I thought I was better than you: I generally try not to gripe about my life, because that goes against everything I believe in: that my thoughts create my reality. The more negative crap I pile into my head, the more I end up telling my subconscious I want more negative crap in my life. Go well, Mr Empire. And I hope you find that which you believe you want too. – Michaela
Response:
"Michaela" <michaelashouse> wrote in message <news:4161cd5b.0@news1.mweb.co.za>… > Not sure if I’m taking this all the right way, but here’s > my two cents. > I stand by my thoughts on idolatrous love. BUT that’s not > to say I am above having them. Against my own advice > out here, I seem to depend on Mike. I don’t think that being > dependent on him is a bad thing as such, but I do believe > that my belief that happiness can come from another is > faulty.
In what sense is it "faulty"?? We obviously derive joy from others; we’re social creatures, after all. I actually agree with you about idolatrous love in general — codependency — but I also maintain that there’s almost always going to be a good dose of that involved, simply given our nature as human beings (not to mention individual dispositions — say, melancholic folk). > I have all that I need within me, but as long as I am > on this earth I might believe I need it from outside of me > (it occurs to me that many of us believe that god is "out > there" I’m not even sure there is a god. But whatever it is > we are pointing at isn’t "out there". It’s within us. And that’s > where our thinking is wrong in the first place. Just thinking > aloud.)
I myself wonder whether all that "pop psychology" actually applies in real life…I mean, we’re just social animals, so there’s no helping developing some kind of emotional attachment. In terms of degrees, I do believe one can modulate that…but I can’t imagine how one might truly "go solo" without feeling lonely — or getting a little crazy! > I hope my message is in there somewhere. > I hope you know I never intended to hurt you. > – Michaela
Yes, I understood you, and no, I don’t imagine that you meant to hurt me or anyone — I don’t think most people really mean to hurt anyone, for that matter. They may not care whether they do, but most people don’t seem to try to hurt anyone else who isn’t an enemy. My only gripe there was that I felt implicated by your remarks — but that’s not an indictment of your intentions at all. And to you too I extend an apology for having reacted the way I did.
Response:
bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in message <news:cjpa9m$h1a$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>… > Sorry, but you were rude, and agressive and still are. > Not ideas are: you are.
I am sorry you believe that. > So your pretending otherwise above just does not hit me as meant nor > honest. Abnd dishonesty you can shove immediately where Claudia waited > four years to get you to shove. If thewre still is room. If not, put it in > storage.
I don’t think I was ever this rude to you at all, but I will let the public record stand — or fall — on its own. > Obviously not anymore, Belly Button:):).Were you under the illusion of the > thread being your exclusive control and property, narcisse?
You are obviously taking things personally. When I say that the thread is "about me and Claudia," I am referring to the subject, the topic. In no way does that imply that I believe I have some kind of control over it. > Welcome to ngs, dear.
Indeed, you sound like such a grognard, I marvel at your thin skin — even for a Francophone! > Live and learn. Many threads around are about things quite other in > contents than what their original title said. I think for instance of "a > little bird told me" that never had a thing to do with birds, and that > originally was about telling others I was sick and to send comforting words. > It now became soemthing else entirely, which is quite fine and good and > normal and gra=eat and all that. > Tons of threads turn out this way.
That’s not the point. I’ve already addressed why not. If you disagree, that’s another issue. But here you’re just repeating yourself as if I haven’t already explained myself. We can then go on to disagree about my explanation, my rationale, but at least we’d be having one conversation — not two separate ones, talking past each other. > If you want exclusive attention, go see a psy and pay 137 dollars please.
Who’s talking "exclusive attention"?? My two replies were actually very tame compared to this really ridiculous one of yours. > Or EMAIL SKLENGE.
And why don’t you just go start alt.rambling.Eleonore.Beaudoin? > You show being a rude man unless someone is at your service, buddy.
Really? Come on, quote me and show us all where I was "rude." > And you seem quite preoccupied wiht your grand self and never bother with > anyone else than those kising your narcisstic ass.
Wow, it’s amazing you don’t go play the stock market. > And you fell on the wrong gal to try that on. My sleeves are rolled. Coem > on, give it your best shot, asshole.
The thing with fighting women and children is that a man can never win. LOL > Yep. Rude and stupid at it.
Obviously you’re the one being rude. Are you just the Net alias of George W. Bush? > Hopefully he undesrtands what rudeness feels > like by now, if he is not too stupid for that.
LOL — one can also never win a fight against a pig: everyone gets dirty, but the pig enjoys it! > Listen, I am sorry that to you this Claudia bobo is delicate stuff and that it > felt to > your precious centre of the universe as if everyone that woudl exchange > ideas would have to talk you and Claudia,and that I butt in indelicately > with my big shoes.
You mustn’t say things you don’t mean. > But in no way does that justify your being such an assho9le that you can > not pass for this kind man ditched by a woman in my eyes.
I’d like to know exactly what I’ve said that’s supposed to be so "rude" and make me "such an asshole"…come on, you obviously have as much time as I do, and since your "sleeves are rolled up" let’s see you do something more than tickle. > YOU, sir, demand of others that they be delivccate > when you show absolutely gratuitously rude to me for the nth time, when I > did nothign to you sdave not kiss your butt excalty in the crack as you so > wanted.
Right. Let the record show exactly who’s being "rude." > So tell you what, belly button. > The name ain’t Claudia, and I won’t stretch it four years.
Gosh, you have such insight, you should start your own advice column in your local daily. > YOU are NOT the centre of the universe. > Start liking it, as they say.
I’d also like an example of my narcissism. Obviously one of us is crazy. > You really like to look for problems don’t you?
You really like creating them, obviously. > I am sure then you will find plenty everywhere. Namely with anything that > ainlt you you you and you, narcissist of my smurf.
You keep talking about narcissism. How do you know you’re not just projecting? > Scuse me, but I find you more than inappropriately acting.
Translation, please? > Therefore > you do not serve well as a reference to what si appropriate or not. > Yet…. > Heard me bug you with it before?
What the hell are you talking about now???? > Then why don’t you respect others as they do you?
And how have I disrespected anyone, hmmm?? > Are you too important to be intruded in your exclusive thread?
It’s funny you think that that’s what I think, when I’ve very clearly explained myself on that point. > Is this a designer’s thread or soemthing?
Are you finished yet? > Gee willikers…. > TOUCH GROUND. But better take a ladder to get off them high horses!
At least I land on my feet. You should at least try using a helmet next time. > It was tangential in your twisting it arounc a la egoventred way, bringign > everythign back to you even hen you are told for the nth time that it was not.
The Nth time? You are much too melodramatic — even for the French! Do you need to be told "for the Nth time" that this isn’t personal and it’s the idea I’m reacting to? How could it be personal, if you think about it: I don’t even know you! > I know you’ probably like to go on acting like it was, the world has no > rigth to revolve without you beign its centre, and must be impossibel for > you to imagine that more than Claudia donlt give a shit about the centre > of the universe it it is you. But nah ner.
You keep bringing up Claudia…but you know something? One can just as easily laugh at you — what are you doing on ASL? Why are you so lonely? What’s the matter, no one recognizes that you’re the center of the universe?? > Again, you ain’t mine. So deal with it.
Wow, what an attitude problem you have — even for a woman! LOL > You were rude and agressive gartuitopusly towards meand are still so.
You have to give examples. Otherwise it’s just your biochemical imbalance again. > So come again, buster. > Ain’t no such thing as a delicate asshole, so cut the frills off.
You are one dumb woodchuck! > For f.. sake….
You still here?!?! > Lil arrows pointign at you, is that all people are to your belly gutton > majesty?
Do you still beat your wife? > I can not say for Micahela in her place, But again, deaf head, my words > had nothign to do at all with you and Claudia.
Dunderhead, you need to learn to read what’s in front of your eyes instead of what’s in that echo chamber you call your head. > Spotted you as an asshiole from your second post, and did not care to > write about you and Claudia. Got that?
Ah, I’m glad you admit your prejudice now. So you had it in for me all along, eh! Well, how did you "spot me for an asshole" from my second post? I’m really curious. I know it takes one to know one but you must give, I always say, examples, proofs. > Try and sharpen this:)
You’re dull, and God meant for you to be that way. > ….pfft….
Close your legs. > He is just being apersonally agressive, and only systematically with me. > yes dear?
"Only with you"?? How narcissistic of you! > I say no dear, Bugger off.
Um, I thought you knew this was usenet. > Or get ready to face the same shit you serve women.
Good! I’m glad it’s all finally coming out…you’ve got your crap-for-brains feminazi agenda! The more women get hysterical like you (and look up the etymology of that word, "hysterical," if you’d like to raise your blood pressure even more — I chose it on purpose!), the more you’re just confirming all the old sexist notions against which you rant and rave. Wow…never thought I’d find myself talking to God on ASL! And to think that He’s a woman! And French! Is that why my prayers went unanswered??? > Trust me, people her never saw me give anyone what they did not deserve > and I am sure about my move this time too.
Then again, maybe I just didn’t understand what the hell you were trying to say to me, oh Lord…. > Blah blah blah, agressive, not personal, don’t mean too, though > agressive, blah blah blah. A man of hsi convictions, riiight. > Right.
You’re in love with the sound of your own voice. That’s called narcissism. > Anythign that does not pat your little bobo and kiss your little bleeding > heart you attack.
"Anything"? Let’s see the evidence. > Course, narcisse.
Get a psychology textbook, any one will do. Go to the glossary and look up "projection." > And I dared talk without talking about YOU, oh my gawd!!! > Kiss *MY* ass!:)
Get your head out first. > You don’t suffer for having lost Claudia.
LOL — you give new meaning to the phrase "I know how you feel." > You suffer cause you don’t have someoen to play "you are my king, oh king, > for the king, a la king…!" like a doggam latin declinaison!
I’m not your daddy. Wake up little girl, wake up. > When she was there, you din care. Now that she’s gone, you use her to > catch the next. I know your type by heart, sadly.
My type? What’s sad is that you take yourself so seriously. > So rememebr to try and dial a different number and get off ""my"" thread! > LOL:)
You are quite right about that — this is a thread for venting, after all, and you obviously have much to get off your chest! LOL > Again, a narcissist tryign to shine while popuring ridicule on two posters > that wrere not rude to him, that were suppotive and kind, is being a > total asshole. > You dented the mirror hon. Awwww….
You’re the one making … read more »
Response:
> If you want exclusive attention, go see a psy and pay 137 dollars please. > Or EMAIL SKLENGE.
I’d rather you didn’t drag me into your rant, Chloe. Thanks. Wassup chloe?
Response:
> Left Hand of Empire wrote: >> Sorry if my post came across as a personal attack, but I really was >> reacting to the ideas, >> express, suggesting, if not logically implying, "idolatrous love" on >> my part, etc. — again, whatever your intentions, that is > the effect).
Not sure if I’m taking this all the right way, but here’s my two cents. I stand by my thoughts on idolatrous love. BUT that’s not to say I am above having them. Against my own advice out here, I seem to depend on Mike. I don’t think that being dependent on him is a bad thing as such, but I do believe that my belief that happiness can come from another is faulty. I have all that I need within me, but as long as I am on this earth I might believe I need it from outside of me (it occurs to me that many of us believe that god is "out there" I’m not even sure there is a god. But whatever it is we are pointing at isn’t "out there". It’s within us. And that’s where our thinking is wrong in the first place. Just thinking aloud.) I hope my message is in there somewhere. I hope you know I never intended to hurt you. – Michaela
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I await always your return, the return of spring, the sunshine of your smile with its Claudia Colors of the heart on my heart. You are the strength of my arms, the flush on my cheeks, the timbre of my voice, the words of my soul’s now-sad song. You are my love, my hope, my life and my bride, and though the miles interrupt us, or the years confuse us, or that pride and fatigue should capture us, you remain as you were always for me, a beautiful baby, a lovely girl, a good woman, a young mother, an eternal bride, a simple wife. Though you do not care, I care, and in my care our care lives, the care we once had, the devotion we once pledged, the challenges we once faced happily together. At summer’s end comes the contemplation of fall, at love’s end comes the wisdom for next year’s flowers and Claudia Colors. Baby of Life, Girl of Innocence, Woman of Darkness, Mother of Love, sweet dear Wife of the World, I do not want life without you, but I will live life for hope of being with you again one happy day, just as we had loved and laughed once upon a dream. Your hands were made for mine, my heart has grown for yours. Where the sky meets the earth there is rain, the tears of four years’ memories and a lifetime of hopes to wash your sleep-roasted cheeks, your baby-round shoulders, your brown belly, the bite-sized toes, your breasts’ rise and heave, the arch of your hips, the shock of whiteness on your thighs, all covered like desires under a cloth of kindness by your special style of dress, that unique thing about you which attracts babies, grandmothers, and puppies and bees. You left me for a house, for a car, for an arrangement, a piece of paper notarized, a ceremony in church photographed. Come one day, when you see past those ever-changing leaves to my broken heart, back to our pools of shimmering blue, our purple mountains and its caves of echoes. I am buried there in faith, asleep while you refuse my name, numb until you spin my hopes. All the love you’ve ever loved anyone with I love you with, plus my own, too. All the tears you’ve ever shed for anyone I shed, too, mixed with my own. I always want you. You no longer want me. Somewhere between heaven and earth the sky will fall and cause the earth’s flowery arms to rush up and meet it.
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i_need_clau…@yahoo.com (Yet Another Broken Heart) wrote in message <news:79fe81ff.0408292013.2ae3f8d4@posting.google.com>… > I await always your return.. > Though you do not care,I care… > I do not want life without you, but I will live life for hope of being with you again one happy day, just as we had loved and laughed once upon a dream. >I always want you. You no longer want me.
I am so sorry for your pain. Though I cannot claim to have loved as deeply as you, I have known what it’s like to be with someone you think is the person you will spend the rest of your life with. I loved a guy who I would imagine holding our child. Hell, I even loved watching him drive. But it is a cold heartless fact that we can never make those we love love us back. How cruel, that we can cherish someone, cherish the minutia of their being, and they can only think of leaving us. There really are no reassurances I can give, except that you are not alone in your heartache. I would also say, and please do not think me insensitive for this, live with hope but don’t shut yourself off to the possibility of another love. Don’t shut yourself off from the world, don’t put up walls. Keep going.
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kirpepe…@netscape.net (Melancholybaby) wrote in news:aff7c216.0409291847.2b07a8a0@posting.google.com: > How cruel, that we can cherish > someone, cherish the minutia of their being, and they can only think > of leaving us.
All part of the Good Lord’s sick, twisted design. Go figure. — "It’s not a toy, it’s a real oven that bakes muffins, and it’s powered by Love." –Sea Lab 2021.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -kirpepe…@netscape.net (Melancholybaby) wrote in message <news:aff7c216.0409291847.2b07a8a0@posting.google.com>… > i_need_clau…@yahoo.com (Yet Another Broken Heart) wrote in message <news:79fe81ff.0408292013.2ae3f8d4@posting.google.com>… > > I await always your return.. > > Though you do not care,I care… > > I do not want life without you, but I will live life for hope of being with you again one happy day, just as we had loved and laughed once upon a dream. > >I always want you. You no longer want me. > I am so sorry for your pain. > Though I cannot claim to have loved as deeply as you, I have known > what it’s like to be with someone you think is the person you will > spend the rest of your life with. > I loved a guy who I would imagine holding our child. Hell, I even > loved watching him drive. But it is a cold heartless fact that we can > never make those we love love us back. How cruel, that we can cherish > someone, cherish the minutia of their being, and they can only think > of leaving us. > There really are no reassurances I can give, except that you are not > alone in your heartache. > I would also say, and please do not think me insensitive for this, > live with hope but don’t shut yourself off to the possibility of > another love. Don’t shut yourself off from the world, don’t put up > walls. Keep going.
A thoughtful, sympathetic reply to a beautifully written post. Not much to add. "Live with hope" but not too much of that sort of hope. People generally, statistically, do not change their minds and go back to someone they’ve decided to leave. At least, I’ve not heard of, much less lived, a single case where that has happened. There are all sorts of reasons for this. None of them require you to assume that she has blotted out her mind all the things you shared together and the things she loved about you. Probably, she hasn’t. But that isn’t the point. Life goes on. There are always some lessons to be learned. I have been dumped by women for a hundred reasons, some of which contained a clear lesson for the future. "Start working out in a gym". "Try to be less boring". "Be more assertive". "New shoes". "Try to earn more money". In my case, especially the last. There is always that motivation: while knowing she will never come back to you, at least have the retrospective triumph of having successfully become someone she never would have left, and might secretly wish she had stayed with. Oh, and welcome to loneliness.
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"Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" wrote > (Melancholybaby) wrote > > How cruel, that we can cherish > > someone, cherish the minutia of their being, and they can only think > > of leaving us. > All part of the Good Lord’s sick, twisted design. Go figure.
There’s a difference between idolising (I seem to remember a commandment that went something like that) and cherishing someone. Soon as one person puts another on a pedestal one runs the risk of their expectations not being met and being very disappointed when they realise that that other person is but human. AFAICT if one just cherishes another for who they are, they’ll never be let down. – Michaela
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com (Michaela) wrote in message <news:3271bf15.0409300548.558c513e@posting.google.com>… > There’s a difference between idolising (I seem to remember > a commandment that went something like that) and cherishing > someone. > Soon as one person puts another on a pedestal one runs the > risk of their expectations not being met and being very > disappointed when they realise that that other person is > but human. > AFAICT if one just cherishes another for who they are, > they’ll never be let down. > – Michaela
Very true. Indeed, the "problem" of love is not the problem of finding the right object so much as it is the difficulty of practicing lovingkindness. Me, being human, can only cherish her for at her best. Her, being human, has faults which I can only at best accept.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Michaela (michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com) writes: > "Eerie Cabinets of Dr. Rodent" wrote >> (Melancholybaby) wrote >> > How cruel, that we can cherish >> > someone, cherish the minutia of their being, and they can only think >> > of leaving us. >> All part of the Good Lord’s sick, twisted design. Go figure. > There’s a difference between idolising (I seem to remember > a commandment that went something like that) and cherishing > someone. > Soon as one person puts another on a pedestal one runs the > risk of their expectations not being met and being very > disappointed when they realise that that other person is > but human.
Instead of seing the dispointment side (only), I look at it from the perspective of what it does to another to put expectations on them. Abd/or what it does to me when one expects me to this and that… When we do, it means the other has some implicit condition to fulfil, and that becomes a burden, because it is not appreciated so much as "expected". It becomes no less than a debt to pay and is acted upon as such both by the one fulfilling the expecation and the one seing their expectations met, in no time. Expectations lead to taking for granted. Of course, there is expectatiosn and expectations. If one says "I expected X to walk in at 4, cause every day for the ast 20 years X walked in exactly at four"….It mifght be said in the context of "how dare you not walk in at four??", where the other times are not appreciated as much as that oen reproached and underlien for nt meeting an implicit demand and condition. But if said to cops for instance, in the context of a missing person, the ""expectation"" might end up saving a life, for the one used to the habits of the missing one fast seing something might be wrong… The difference then is the ATTITUDE. If it is done to measure how lovED we are rather than done out of loving, it can only lead to the dismantlement of the relationship. The one that acts to be loved, that does things to be lovED, not out of loving, not bringing their share of love in the exchange, simply making it unbalanced and disfunctionally dependant. > > AFAICT if one just cherishes another for who they are, > they’ll never be let down. > – Michaela
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The problem with crying over a broken heart is that people think they’ve been there, too, and know how to get over it. And it’s true, of course…there isn’t anything in life that we cannot, really, bear. But it’s like someone cracking jokes at a funeral…no matter how funny they are, they are besides the point of a funeral. Hell, for that matter, even eulogies talking about Heaven and such nonsense are really out of place. As Specialist Pat Tillman’s brother, also a U.S. Army Ranger, had said at his brother’s funeral, in response to well-wishers who spoke of Heaven and how Pat’s with the Lord and other such homelies: "Pat’s dead. Pat’s fucking dead." My relationship with Claudia is dead. It’s fucking dead. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in message <news:cji40c$nvv$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>… > Instead of seing the dispointment side (only), I look at it from the > perspective of what it does to another to put expectations on them. Abd/or > what it does to me when one expects me to this and that… > When we do, it means the other has some implicit condition to fulfil, and > that becomes a burden, because it is not appreciated so much as "expected". > It becomes no less than a debt to pay and is acted upon as such both by > the one fulfilling the expecation and the one seing their expectations > met, in no time. Expectations lead to taking for granted. > Of course, there is expectatiosn and expectations. If one says "I expected > X to walk in at 4, cause every day for the ast 20 years X walked in > exactly at four"….It mifght be said in the context of "how dare you not > walk in at four??", where the other times are not appreciated as much as > that oen reproached and underlien for nt meeting an implicit demand and > condition. But if said to cops for instance, in the context of a missing > person, the ""expectation"" might end up saving a life, for the one used > to the habits of the missing one fast seing something might be wrong… > The difference then is the ATTITUDE. > If it is done to measure how lovED we are rather than done out of loving, > it can only lead to the dismantlement of the relationship. > The one that acts to be loved, that does things to be lovED, not out of > loving, not bringing their share of love in the exchange, simply making it > unbalanced and disfunctionally dependant. > > AFAICT if one just cherishes another for who they are, > > they’ll never be let down. > > – Michaela > —
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Scuse moi, I was sayign this in reply to Michaela’s words, and not sayign this in any link at all to Claudia. In fact I did not even notice the thread title nor thought fo you and Claudia then when I replied to Michaela’s words. That’s the thign with ngs. Threads belong to no one, and take many varied directions. That was just one of them. As for you and Claudia, I have nothign to say, no eulogy no nothing. What coudl oen say….? As you say yourself…. It is fucking *********dead********!!!!!!! C Left Hand of Empire (jack_foreig…@yahoo.com) writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The problem with crying over a broken heart is that people think > they’ve been there, too, and know how to get over it. > And it’s true, of course…there isn’t anything in life that we > cannot, really, bear. > But it’s like someone cracking jokes at a funeral…no matter how > funny they are, they are besides the point of a funeral. > Hell, for that matter, even eulogies talking about Heaven and such > nonsense are really out of place. As Specialist Pat Tillman’s > brother, also a U.S. Army Ranger, had said at his brother’s funeral, > in response to well-wishers who spoke of Heaven and how Pat’s with the > Lord and other such homelies: "Pat’s dead. Pat’s fucking dead." > My relationship with Claudia is dead. It’s fucking dead. > bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in message <news:cji40c$nvv$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>… >> Instead of seing the dispointment side (only), I look at it from the >> perspective of what it does to another to put expectations on them. Abd/or >> what it does to me when one expects me to this and that… >> When we do, it means the other has some implicit condition to fulfil, and >> that becomes a burden, because it is not appreciated so much as "expected". >> It becomes no less than a debt to pay and is acted upon as such both by >> the one fulfilling the expecation and the one seing their expectations >> met, in no time. Expectations lead to taking for granted. >> Of course, there is expectatiosn and expectations. If one says "I expected >> X to walk in at 4, cause every day for the ast 20 years X walked in >> exactly at four"….It mifght be said in the context of "how dare you not >> walk in at four??", where the other times are not appreciated as much as >> that oen reproached and underlien for nt meeting an implicit demand and >> condition. But if said to cops for instance, in the context of a missing >> person, the ""expectation"" might end up saving a life, for the one used >> to the habits of the missing one fast seing something might be wrong… >> The difference then is the ATTITUDE. >> If it is done to measure how lovED we are rather than done out of loving, >> it can only lead to the dismantlement of the relationship. >> The one that acts to be loved, that does things to be lovED, not out of >> loving, not bringing their share of love in the exchange, simply making it >> unbalanced and disfunctionally dependant. >> > AFAICT if one just cherishes another for who they are, >> > they’ll never be let down. >> > – Michaela >> —
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Left Hand of Empire (jack_foreig…@yahoo.com) writes: > bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in message <news:cjkne6$cg$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>… >> Scuse moi, I was sayign this in reply to Michaela’s words, and not sayign >> this in any link at all to Claudia. >> In fact I did not even notice the thread title nor thought fo you and >> Claudia then when I replied to Michaela’s words. > Sorry if my post came across as a personal attack, but I really was > reacting to the ideas, not to the persons (posters — you and > Michaela).
Sorry, but you were rude, and agressive and still are. Not ideas are: you are. So your pretending otherwise above just does not hit me as meant nor honest. Abnd dishonesty you can shove immediately where Claudia waited four years to get you to shove. If thewre still is room. If not, put it in storage. > > The thread’s obviously about me and Claudia,
Obviously not anymore, Belly Button:):).Were you under the illusion of the thread being your exclusive control and property, narcisse? Welcome to ngs, dear. Live and learn. Many threads around are about things quite other in contents than what their original title said. I think for instance of "a little bird told me" that never had a thing to do with birds, and that originally was about telling others I was sick and to send comforting words. It now became soemthing else entirely, which is quite fine and good and normal and gra=eat and all that. Tons of threads turn out this way. If you want exclusive attention, go see a psy and pay 137 dollars please. Or EMAIL SKLENGE. You show being a rude man unless someone is at your service, buddy. And you seem quite preoccupied wiht your grand self and never bother with anyone else than those kising your narcisstic ass. And you fell on the wrong gal to try that on. My sleeves are rolled. Coem on, give it your best shot, asshole. and if the comments turn > to relationships in general, do not be surprised that such comments > are viewed within the specific context of the conversation at hand (me > and Claudia).
Yep. Rude and stupid at it. Hopefully he undesrtands what rudeness feels like by now, if he is not too stupid for that. Listen, I am sorry that to you this Claudia bobo is delicate stuff and that it felt to your precious centre of the universe as if everyone that woudl exchange ideas would have to talk you and Claudia,and that I butt in indelicately with my big shoes. But in no way does that justify your being such an assho9le that you can not pass for this kind man ditched by a woman in my eyes. YOU, sir, demand of others that they be delivccate when you show absolutely gratuitously rude to me for the nth time, when I did nothign to you sdave not kiss your butt excalty in the crack as you so wanted. So tell you what, belly button. The name ain’t Claudia, and I won’t stretch it four years. YOU are NOT the centre of the universe. Start liking it, as they say. >> That’s the thign with ngs. Threads belong to no one, and take many varied >> directions. That was just one of them. > That’s also part of the problem sometimes.
You really like to look for problems don’t you? I am sure then you will find plenty everywhere. Namely with anything that ainlt you you you and you, narcissist of my smurf. > Again, I do apologize because though I was upset, I was upset at the ideas being oddly > "inappropriate,"
Scuse me, but I find you more than inappropriately acting. Therefore you do not serve well as a reference to what si appropriate or not. Yet…. Heard me bug you with it before? Then why don’t you respect others as they do you? Are you too important to be intruded in your exclusive thread? Is this a designer’s thread or soemthing? Gee willikers…. TOUCH GROUND. But better take a ladder to get off them high horses! not at anyone in particular — it’s as if, to return > to the funeral analogy, I overheard a remark which I found tangential.
It was tangential in your twisting it arounc a la egoventred way, bringign everythign back to you even hen you are told for the nth time that it was not. I know you’ probably like to go on acting like it was, the world has no rigth to revolve without you beign its centre, and must be impossibel for you to imagine that more than Claudia donlt give a shit about the centre of the universe it it is you. But nah ner. Again, you ain’t mine. So deal with it. > Sure you can say "well, I wasn’t talking to you anyway," but that’s > besides the point of my annoyance, which is at the idea, not that you > said it to me or whoever else.
You were rude and agressive gartuitopusly towards meand are still so. So come again, buster. Ain’t no such thing as a delicate asshole, so cut the frills off. >> As for you and Claudia, I have nothign to say, no eulogy no nothing. >> What coudl oen say….? >> As you say yourself…. >> It is fucking *********dead********!!!!!!! > Yes, and I am still in mourning. This means that ideas which > challenge the "factual basis" of my grief — as per your and > Michaela’s comments —
For f.. sake…. Lil arrows pointign at you, is that all people are to your belly gutton majesty? I can not say for Micahela in her place, But again, deaf head, my words had nothign to do at all with you and Claudia. Spotted you as an asshiole from your second post, and did not care to write about you and Claudia. Got that? > will occasion a sharp rebuttal from me.
Try and sharpen this:) But > you musn’t take it "personally,"
….pfft…. He is just being apersonally agressive, and only systematically with me. yes dear? I say no dear, Bugger off. Or get ready to face the same shit you serve women. Trust me, people her never saw me give anyone what they did not deserve and I am sure about my move this time too. as I do attack the ideas, however > aggressively.
Blah blah blah, agressive, not personal, don’t mean too, though agressive, blah blah blah. A man of hsi convictions, riiight. Right. Anythign that does not pat your little bobo and kiss your little bleeding heart you attack. Course, narcisse. And I dared talk without talking about YOU, oh my gawd!!! Kiss *MY* ass!:) You don’t suffer for having lost Claudia. You suffer cause you don’t have someoen to play "you are my king, oh king, for the king, a la king…!" like a doggam latin declinaison! When she was there, you din care. Now that she’s gone, you use her to catch the next. I know your type by heart, sadly. So rememebr to try and dial a different number and get off ""my"" thread! LOL:) > Again, as with the funeral analogy: you two "debating" the ontology of > Heaven is besides the point of bereavement,
Again, a narcissist tryign to shine while popuring ridicule on two posters that wrere not rude to him, that were suppotive and kind, is being a total asshole. You dented the mirror hon. Awwww…. Say, since it is not about "us two", Michaela and I why donlt you shut the fuck up? Shall we act liek you? "Talk abotu what we talkd or we will pour ridicule on you?". You said it was not about me and Michaela, and ar upset if others donlt talk abot yo and Claudia. Then you have double standards, and try sitting on this: since you say this is not about me and Micahela, and since according to you, what matters is that oen talks about those they post-follow on, then shut up! Thsi was Michaela and I talking!! 
:) and, whatever the actual > intentions do serve to effect a challenge of the survivor’s sense of > grief — that is, by saying "don’t worry, he’s in a better place now" > one is in effect if not in intent denying the very right to grief, > since there is nothing really to grieve since residence in Heaven is > no unhappy end (which is analogous to the sentiments you and Michaela > express, suggesting, if not logically implying, "idolatrous love" on > my part, etc. —
Odd. I don’t even rememebr havign talkd about heaven nor "he’s in a better place now". Are you aware that you hear voices??? > again, whatever your intentions, that is the effect).
Again, the only right intention with you is kissing your ass. Well, kiss this!!!! And get out fo my thread LOL:) That’s all. —
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bc…@FreeNet.Carleton.CA (Eleonore Beaudoin) wrote in message <news:cjkne6$cg$1@freenet9.carleton.ca>… > Scuse moi, I was sayign this in reply to Michaela’s words, and not sayign > this in any link at all to Claudia. > In fact I did not even notice the thread title nor thought fo you and > Claudia then when I replied to Michaela’s words.
Sorry if my post came across as a personal attack, but I really was reacting to the ideas, not to the persons (posters — you and Michaela). The thread’s obviously about me and Claudia, and if the comments turn to relationships in general, do not be surprised that such comments are viewed within the specific context of the conversation at hand (me and Claudia). > That’s the thign with ngs. Threads belong to no one, and take many varied > directions. That was just one of them.
That’s also part of the problem sometimes. Again, I do apologize because though I was upset, I was upset at the ideas being oddly "inappropriate," not at anyone in particular — it’s as if, to return to the funeral analogy, I overheard a remark which I found tangential. Sure you can say "well, I wasn’t talking to you anyway," but that’s besides the point of my annoyance, which is at the idea, not that you said it to me or whoever else. > As for you and Claudia, I have nothign to say, no eulogy no nothing. > What coudl oen say….? > As you say yourself…. > It is fucking *********dead********!!!!!!!
Yes, and I am still in mourning. This means that ideas which challenge the "factual basis" of my grief — as per your and Michaela’s comments — will occasion a sharp rebuttal from me. But you musn’t take it "personally," as I do attack the ideas, however aggressively. Again, as with the funeral analogy: you two "debating" the ontology of Heaven is besides the point of bereavement, and, whatever the actual intentions do serve to effect a challenge of the survivor’s sense of grief — that is, by saying "don’t worry, he’s in a better place now" one is in effect if not in intent denying the very right to grief, since there is nothing really to grieve since residence in Heaven is no unhappy end (which is analogous to the sentiments you and Michaela express, suggesting, if not logically implying, "idolatrous love" on my part, etc. — again, whatever your intentions, that is the effect). That’s all.
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Question:
> See how fast things change, Teatime…? > Then a next time, do rememebr it can always change that fast, K? > C
We’ll see. I’m really trying not to get my hopes up. She’s a very attractive model, which makes it harder. I hope things go well, she has a similar attitude toward sex as me at least. She hasn’t been online tonight though, yet. There have been a lot of girls I’ve met online who’ve said things, but I can’t think of one so far who has followed those things through. — My music – http://www.jonathandalton.com
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Mr. Teatime’s post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Sometimes – the cry for help and self harm is as far as anyone tries to > go. >> If someone really wants to make away with themselves… they have to be > very >> careful and definite or they can just end up putting themselves in a much >> worse position. I wouldn’t take the risk (always I talk about what I would >> do but that’s all I can do, sorry). There is no control when all control > has >> gone and you’re falling and failing it’s a dangerous ‘place’ to be. I’m >> relieved in a way that you’ve told me/us this – that you are getting help. >> Just to be practical, would it make you feel more comfortable if you lived >> with someone? I know friends fill the void a little bit, but having > someone >> who lives with you can offer a different kind of companionship; the kind > of >> thing that one can get from living with anyone (like family, or a ltr, or >> having a pet). Could that work for you? > Living with family doesn’t work, it really depressed me last time I did > that. LTR, I’m sure would be a massive boost for me. In fact I’m sure that > that’s a big part of why I’m depressed. > I don’t think I could look after a pet well enough. > As for suicide attempts, I’ve never made any – i think if i made an attempt > at suicide, it would be to suceed, not to cry for attention.
I meant just living with someone: A lodger – for that ‘relationship within domestic setting’, rather than just a mate down the pub, someone who is there when you come in, or someone to go out with, or who’s just ‘there’ to get annoying. Eventually it will get annoying but it may help the perspective for a while – do you have enough room for a lodger? I really didn’t mean you should live with your family. I was using that analogy (family, pet, ltr) as a way of describing the ‘relationship within a domestic setting’ thing that you may be missing – someone to unburden yourself to in a fairly platonic and practical way. If you do a lot of loner activities (like music stuff, and performing can be lonely really) then it’s possible having a ’stationary’ human in your home to tell it all to over coffee and toast could be something worth thinking about getting. Like I say – just a thought.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Mr. Teatime" <mr_teatime00…@SPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message <news:SskHc.1625$xk7.14928991@news-text.cableinet.net>… > > Whilst your advice is good, I really don’t think I’m as naive as you seem > to > > make out. I don’t have the energy to go into how I feel about many things, > > but I’m not stupid. > I didn’t mean that to sound ungrateful. Just that the whole ‘cultivate > yourself, learn to love yourself before you love others’ etc, and the > assumption that I have some fairy tale romance ideal in my head…. I’m not > that dumb, and I’m tired of hearing it. Whether you’re doubtful or not, I am > certain that a good relationship would boost my life in many ways. And more > often than not, I’m right about things. > Unfortunately the women I meet either reject me outright, or talk to me for > a bit then disappear (which is worse than the first type of woman).
I don’t normally do (or attempt) "advice" at all. I’m not even sure that this qualifies as such. It’s more just a case of throwing in a bit of autobiography on the offchance there may be something salvageable in there that might be of use. The fact that there isn’t doesn’t surprise me much: people are rarely that tidily similar, that life experience can be downloaded across the divide. It was worth a try. I don’t actually think you’re stupid, never did. I’m not a psychologist and I don’t engage in exhaustive analyses of people before I respond to them, I just start with two or three simple items of data and see if that suggests anything. In this instance: young, extremely talented, good-looking, yet has trouble hitting it off with women. Someone with more wisdom and knowledge of people might do more with that data than I can, though I suspect you would have to give them a bit more to go on, and you might not want to do that on a public newsgroup. Which might suggest a few sessions with a therapist, who knows (I used to be scared of being stigmatised, sucked into a messy, self-perpetuating maelstrom of "mental issues". Quite ungrounded. It’s no bigger a deal than going to a dentist, really. You stop when you want.) Anyway, I’ll back off here and shut up, unless the resident misogynists start squalling again. I may not know much that’s relevant to your situation, but I do know, from repeated personal experience in more than one country, that there are a lot of worthwhile women around who would be in the market for a bloke with far fewer qualities and recommendations than you appear to have. Even I got lucky at your age, and I was an awkward, ugly social cripple with no obvious talents or skills and a vast array of sexual hangups. Have women changed so much in so few years? I doubt it. Something’s wrong here that’s probably fairly easily fixable. If it matters that much to you, it’s probably worth paying someone qualified to give you an answer. A Usenet support group probably isn’t the solution. But you probably knew that already.
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And believe me, at 36, he still did not get it!! So see…There is always hope, even when all seems absent.. 
Great post, Ob, and I donlt say that often. Again, cause it is less facade and more Genuine. And I like genuine. It si the only thing that pleases me:) And yeah, good ones donlt wanna be pleased. They want it to happen to eb that both please their wons elf and that each find pleasant how they donlt have to please…and yet find it mutually pleasant and even pleasing to not please!! Please don’t live to please, anyone…Rather, be pleased to live! C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"OB" (o…@ob.com) writes: > Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> escribi
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"%" <surfs@uniserve> wrote in message <news:10f4bgreh0ll3f8@corp.supernews.com>… > oh sure but do you ever e-mail me … no
did you want me to? then you have to give me your email address…. audrey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "audrey in velvet" <lindauermadn…@mydotcomaddress.com> wrote in message > news:587c8d6.0407111653.154bb756@posting.google.com… > > this is going to require some thought…ill be sure to email you.. > > > > audrey > > "OB" <o…@ob.com> wrote in message > <news:xAPHc.66925$S7.58207@twister.auna.com>… > > > audrey in velvet <lindauermadn…@mydotcomaddress.com> escribi
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Not that I’m not ‘good’. I can pick up a sport and play it for fun but I wish I was like Andy Roddock on TV. He’s tall, good looking, confident, bright, articulate etc. etc. I’m about 0 of these things. Hahahaha. Man sports man have it made. But even some of them are messed up like Theo Fluerry who was an alcoholic.
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On Thu, 10 Jun 2004 16:04:27 +0100, the world was enlightented by Anon, unto whom the words are attributed: > Not that I’m not ‘good’. I can pick up a sport and play it for fun but I > wish I was like Andy Roddock on TV. He’s tall, good looking, confident, > bright, articulate etc. etc. I’m about 0 of these things. Hahahaha. > Man sports man have it made. But even some of them are messed up like Theo > Fluerry who was an alcoholic.
Dont not thing tjat being dood good at it doesss liike, but thing you is that thing it doess. Mean I, not it mattere sss how ou play, or how you good at it arew, but thta you plahy and od thing do ahta you do.. Err, styill ynot it right got. Thing is, passion tgfor thing tha t is beyone hgood at ro ont good at – i s doing it that cournsts, buthgger whgatr anyone else hing sssst, it ss thing. So play, m y tyhing, paly, nad so well be hte trophy yours, and sod haat the rewsst say, does not matter what is confidgednt and good looking – just plaay. Monagtereesefr — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk
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In article <40c87770$0$191$c3e8…@news.astraweb.com>, a…@anon.com says… >Not that I’m not ‘good’. I can pick up a sport and play it for fun but I >wish I was like Andy Roddock on TV. He’s tall, good looking, confident, >bright, articulate etc. etc. I’m about 0 of these things. Hahahaha. >Man sports man have it made. But even some of them are messed up like Theo >Fluerry who was an alcoholic.
There is natural ability, but still there has to be lots lots and lots of practice to be even better. But even practice to someone of lesser ability will make them way better than they thought they could be. If you enjoy a sport, you can get better and better at it, simply by wanting to be better and trying, never giving up on what is possible? People are good at sports (and anything else) because they spent the time in it. Same for anything else (arts, music, whatever). If it comes easy to them – those who pick something up easily – they’ll probably get bored with it as easily, and give it up, because it’s not interesting enough for them? I guess. Some people are like that, they have the ability but not the interest or time to want to do it. Whatever they do. You become confident because you’ve done something hundreds of times before. Harvey
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Hey man, I made it through your answer, but please gimme some feedback whether I understood you correctly: Anon should forget about the trophies and all the excellence, he should simply enjoy doing sports, enjoy playing…. Hmmm, Munstaaahhh! And what about you? How many Budweisers have you been enjoying by the time you posted the above? Spiralling into the bottomless pit once again? Or just above yourself in a cloud of alcohol? What’s up? I’m concerned as you have told all about those sharp and pointed tools in your place – hope you keep your fingers off them as long as …. yes – what? Any hangover then? Anything that could help? Sumi
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Hey, why the hell do you always want to perform, why do you stress yourself by wanting to do or have things beyond your easy reach? Why setting targets at whose unreachability you can proof what crap you are? Stop that kind of self destructive behaviour! Be it your looks, your activities, hm, whatever. The English language has the expression : *enjoy yourself* which does not exist in my language. In German you can only enjoy something else, not yourself. I’ll come back to enjoyment later. You are quite young, as I remember, and when I was your age I was similarly alone. Just that I never blamed anything or anybody. It was a given fact: I was not noticed by the world. I did not know it otherwise. It was a cruel fact for me that the guys were only after the pretty girls and as there was nobody after me I must be ugly I thought. (Which was not even true-I used to be a nice looking girl though a little handicapped, hmph.) I did not have the faintest idea how to make contact with those aliens of the other sex. So I tried hard to work on my beautiful mind. How ridiculous and silly. Whenever a boy noticed me he tried to do those silly things (you know) and never noticed my mind – which even drove me into more inner isolation. It happened by and by that I finally made friends and started to take an influence on my social environs. First thing was that I enforced myself to enjoy myself alone: took walks, did long cycling tours, enjoyed lying in meadows in the sun, went swimming in the lakes, went to beautiful places to take photos of them or draw them…. I just found out about the things I liked and really, really enjoyed doing them on my own. Up to now I have needed those periods of solitude and I am sure everybody needs the time to enjoy themselves all alone. Next thing is to rid those negative thinking patterns. You can see the very same glass half empty or half full. You can see what you have or what you don’t have and what you can do and can’t do. E.g. my 23rd birthday: i lived in a new place where most of the other students were younger than me and we all did not know each other too well. I was alone, had no friends and my birthday was nearing. It was winter and advent time. I thought I did not want to be all alone on my birthday so I put up an invitation in the kitchen of the floor on which I lived : it said I was going to have my birthday and would like to invite all the bunch into the assembly room and no-one should bring presents but be equipped with a pillow, a candle, an empty mug and a story. I did not expect many people but the room got full, I had to make more and more of the punsch (hot tea, orange juice and considerable amounts of rum) we all rested on the pillows on the floor and got our mugs full with that deadly drink and the people read/told the stories. I had not known how many people liked stories. I got funny ones and sad ones .. all sorts and they were the greatest presents I can think of. Later we went outdoors to throw snowballs at each other and made snow angels and had crazy fun. The whole evening did not bring me a special friend though, but the people were talking more to each other on the same floor. The atmos- phere improved. A year later, when I had to study for my final exams, there was always something cooked for me as if by chance this or that colleague had cooked too much for himself or herself It’s those little things that matter. Back to sports: Why do you really want that high performance thing? All the training it needs and all the hard time wasted on nothing but records? Where’s the point? Aren’t there sports you can simply enjoy? The movement in the fresh air, the sweat streaming out of your body, the play of your muscles, anything you can think of? And if it’s a team sport: Just the contact with others, the way you co-ordinate your moves, the mere adventure of DOING, not the lonesome record of high performance? Don’t aim at the things that make you even more lonesome in the end, Anon…. disrupt your negative thinking patterns, don’t make them choke you! I may be uncomfortable for you to tell you this and I may not fit into this newsgroup with all my positive and romantic thinking patterns and maybe all ya lonely guys feel disturbed by me while you intend to celebrate your loneliness in here. Dunno and care a shit. What I know is that loneliness is a vital experience each of us needs and has to accept to grow and develop and to appreciate the other state: togetherness. We ARE basically alone and we must bring ourselves to accept that and even enjoy that and to occupy ourselves with the things we enjoy. (Hmm, isn’t this what Monster called hedonism somewhere, as far as I remember?) Only then do we have the chance to be positive and to contribute to any togetherness we like. When we go on being negative we will simply be excluded and remain in a vicious circle. The Darwinian principle also reaches deep into the human psyche: the survival of the fittest also means: the survival of the happiest. Basta. That’s it. So the point is this: We all (me still included though I seem to be ahead of some of you in this respect have to eliminate our negative thinking patterns, hmmm, wrong coinage: we have to develop positive thinking patterns that will by and by leak into our behaviour and get reflected in the way we are treated. The moon always shows us its bright side, hehe, that big illuminated Camenbert cheese on the nightly sky … sometimes we see her full face sometimes her profile and sometimes she hides – but what the moon always hides is her dark side. We do not even always have to hide our dark side completely though. Just have to accept it and parallel to it develop all those survival strategies we need to find happiness. Hmmm, this should have just become a short answer and has grown into so big a text. Sorry when I happen to appear like kinda missionary of happiness you might find pretty ridiculous. My way has been paved by pretty hard and sharp stones though and I think I can still be damned sad and lonely every now and then (gues why I’m here But isn’t it simply a natural state that every coin has two sides, that the moon has two sides , that our soul has two sides? Many of you in here will need a lot of encouragement and help to discover their bright and happy sides as well. All the good things also exist for you as well, you’ve just gotta learn ways to reach out for them. Take care ‘n’ good luck Sumi
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Yeah Monster gotta stop the drinking, it helps sure (despite what everyone says it does help) but you should stop the drink. While I’m not a heavy drinker or anywhere near an alcoholic I’m stopping drinking when depressed now (promised myself after yesterday). It was kinda getting worrying, even though I only ever had 20cl max. (well this year anyway) in a depressed drinking session it still isn’t right. Ironically the only reason I stopped though was cause I need to work out and not get headaches, not for some reason of not drinking. And besides, it’s better when you stop cause then you can start up again in a month or whenever and get less alcohol to get you drunk cause your built up tolerance erodes away with time. Lecture over. "sumire" <sumire_kawab…@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:a470c5182113349ca5940f0c8c55403c@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey man, I made it through your answer, but > please gimme some feedback whether I understood > you correctly: Anon should forget about the > trophies and all the excellence, he should simply enjoy > doing sports, enjoy playing…. > Hmmm, Munstaaahhh! And what about you? > How many Budweisers have you been enjoying by the > time you posted the above? > Spiralling into the bottomless pit once again? > Or just above yourself in a cloud of alcohol? > What’s up? > I’m concerned as you have told all about those sharp and pointed tools in > your place – hope you keep your fingers > off them as long as …. yes – what? > Any hangover then? > Anything that could help? > Sumi
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Thanks for the positive reply. But it’s hard to stay happy. I used to be happy. I never used to have a girl friend or friends last year in high school but when away from school I was happy in the things I did myself. I was happy watching tele, browing the internet, following hockey, playing golf or whatever I did. Then this year came along. I was happy early on but still depressed. But all year I was like this, but I was happy too. I made a great friend (at the time, maybe still, I dont know) and thought things were gonna turn round really quick. Then it all fell away. It just did. Now I’m depressed all the time. I’ve turned into those sorts I thought I’d never be, those types who can’t see couples on the street. It never bothered me before but now it does. I know this is self destructive. The more I think about it the less likely it will change. But I can’t help but think about it. I’ve tried to battle thru it and cant. That’s why I made that post asking about meds cause I need something to take the stress off me. I can’t cope alone. How am I meant to go on? I want to, I keep trying, but I really don’t see how anything will change. And it hurts even worse now that I thought I’d made a best friend and she’s not. I was expecting to have a fun packed summer with her but she won’t even see me. This depresses me most. When I go out and have a good time I’m not depressed at all but this is harder and harder to do cause no one wants to go out with me. How am I meant to be happy? I can’t just do things I enjoy cause I can’t concentrate then I got exams to worry about and money worries. I’m drowning under all this pressure and stress. I woudln’t be depressed if I had that one great friend who’d go out with me. I was just so happy I made a friend. >Aren’t there sports you can simply enjoy? >The movement in the fresh air, the sweat streaming >out of your body, the play of your muscles, >anything you can think of? And if it’s a team sport: >Just the contact with others, the way you co-ordinate >your moves, the mere adventure of DOING, not the >lonesome record of high performance?
Of course I enjoy a lot of sports! I just meant Roddock (the tennis player) has everything like most sports men, big, strong, tall, alpha male, and he’s actually modest which I admire. It’s like the hockey player Joe Sakic, he’s freaking awesome but modest. Because they have something they can be so confident about that it reflects in the rest of their life. It’s no conincidence that the guys good at sport at school are the ones who (on teh whole) were happy and have happy memories. While I was good at sport I didn’t go to a mixed school so got none of the benefits of being good apart from trophies and such. But even in sport I feel lonely. It’s stupid. Take this example. I was playing a football match. I’m a solid goal scorer (soccer btw) but no one would feed me the ball! There was another guy who’s much more popular and he kept geting the ball and I was open he never passed it to me. Then he misses so many shots when I was open. I got 4 shots on goal I think, 1 was a bad angle shot that I made on goal and got moaned at for taking it and not passing it. When another guy does this it doesn’t matter! And the other shot I fluffed and got moaned at. Again another guy did this so many times but didn’t get moaned at. It’s bad teamwork, you encourage your players, when I was captain or alternative/vice captain I only moaned at players if they made the same mistake again and again cause it’s bad for the team. And this match was meant to be a ‘fun’ match. That’s why I loved playing playground footie at school, you don’t get moaned at and while it’s competitive it’s not like that match I wrote about above. That’s also why golf appeals to me, it’s all about me. No team mates although I haven’t played in over a year due to no money and no clubs. So that’s the thing. What is the point? People moan at me cause I’m a loser. I felt awful during the match. And that’s why I have no confidence in sport anymore. I get moaned at by team mates a lot for taking decisions that are mine to take as a foward. That’s what fowards do, they have an eye for the goal. Although I’m weak, skinny and short people are regulary suprised at how faisety and tanasious I am. People assume I’ll be a weaklin but I’m anything but on the field. Anyway, then you lose confidence, you keep passing, or don’t even want the ball so you don’t get moaned at. And due to the off field part of life being shit when you get moaned at on field it bothers you while it might not nother other people with complete or normal lives. It’s like I’m gonna take up ice hockey next season but I know I’ll get fluffed and flustered when people moan at me and lose confidence and end up dropping it. But I hope it’s not like that. And no it’s not all in my mind, seriously I made 2 bad shots and got moaned at and 2 other guys missed so many and it was *clap clap* unlucky. And one guy hogging the ball taking long shouts the same thing happend. But no with me its’ always different. I just don’t get what’s so bad about me? It makes me not wanna play again, then you get into that circle of not going out. But of course I try and be positive, it’s just hard when you wake up in the morning angry and fustrated and carry it on thru the day. If I could just go out more often with friends I felt decent with (like that chick) then I’d be fine. But of course no no I can’t get a break like that can I? "sumire" <sumire_kawab…@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:770b36d122494d69486f6eb60e9bb8fc@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey, why the hell do you always want to perform, > why do you stress yourself by wanting to do > or have things beyond your easy reach? > Why setting targets at whose unreachability you > can proof what crap you are? Stop that kind of > self destructive behaviour! > Be it your looks, your activities, hm, whatever. > The English language has the expression : *enjoy yourself* > which does not exist in my language. In German you > can only enjoy something else, not yourself. > I’ll come back to enjoyment later. > You are quite young, as I remember, and when I was > your age I was similarly alone. > Just that I never blamed anything or anybody. > It was a given fact: I was not noticed by the world. > I did not know it otherwise. It was a cruel fact for me > that the guys were only after the pretty girls and > as there was nobody after me I must be ugly I thought. > (Which was not even true-I used to be a nice looking girl > though a little handicapped, hmph.) > I did not have the faintest idea how to make contact > with those aliens of the other sex. So I tried hard to > work on my beautiful mind. How ridiculous and silly. > Whenever a boy noticed me he tried to do those silly > things (you know) and never noticed my mind – which even drove me into > more inner isolation. > It happened by and by that I finally made friends > and started to take an influence on my social environs. > First thing was that I enforced myself to enjoy myself alone: > took walks, did long cycling tours, enjoyed lying in > meadows in the sun, went swimming in the lakes, went > to beautiful places to take photos of them or draw them…. > I just found out about the things I liked and really, really enjoyed doing > them on my own. Up to now I have needed those > periods of solitude and I am sure everybody needs the > time to enjoy themselves all alone. > Next thing is to rid those negative thinking patterns. > You can see the very same glass half empty or half full. > You can see what you have or what you don’t have and > what you can do and can’t do. > E.g. my 23rd birthday: i lived in a new place where most > of the other students were younger than me and we all did > not know each other too well. I was alone, had no friends > and my birthday was nearing. It was winter and advent time. > I thought I did not want to be all alone on my birthday > so I put up an invitation in the kitchen of the floor on > which I lived : it said I was going to have my birthday and would like to > invite all the bunch into the assembly > room and no-one should bring presents but be equipped > with a pillow, a candle, an empty mug and a story. > I did not expect many people but the room got full, I had to > make more and more of the punsch (hot tea, orange juice > and considerable amounts of rum) we all rested on the > pillows on the floor and got our mugs full with that > deadly drink and the people read/told the stories. I had not > known how many people liked stories. I got funny ones and > sad ones .. all sorts and they were the greatest presents I can think of. > Later we went outdoors to throw snowballs at each other and made snow > angels and had crazy fun. The whole evening did not bring me a special > friend though, but the people were talking more to each other on the same > floor. The atmos- > phere improved. A year later, when I had to study for my final exams, > there was always something cooked for me as > if by chance this or that colleague had cooked too much for himself or > herself It’s those little things that matter. > Back to sports: Why do you really want that high > performance thing? All the training it needs and > all the hard time wasted on nothing but records? > Where’s the point? > Aren’t there sports you can simply enjoy? > The movement in the fresh air, the sweat streaming > out of your body, the play of your muscles, > anything you can think of? And if it’s a team sport: > Just the contact with others, the way you co-ordinate > your moves, the mere adventure of DOING, not the > lonesome record of high performance? > Don’t aim at the things that make you even more lonesome in the end, > Anon…. disrupt your negative thinking patterns, > don’t make them choke you! > I may be uncomfortable for you to tell you this > and I may not fit into this newsgroup with all my > positive and
… read more »
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Wish I could stay online longer but have to do those important chores in the house. Just a short one before I’m off, just in order to tell you I did not ignore your answer: So you’ve had this terrible year. Once again: you seem to be very young and your hormones might give you an extra pain ….. hmmm … looking back: if I’d judge my life according to its worst year, ohmy, terrible! You are going through a really bad time but many do, guys and girls. In such a phase time seems to stand still and sadness seems never-ending. One idea: Once you told you intend to spare your parents the knowledge of your troubles. On the other hand, maybe they could help you and find professional help? One of my friends got some professional help for her son and after two sessions he was really much better. (I basically think she would need such a help much more herself but that’s another story.) I mean you have your parents and you might also get a clue where some of your negative thinking patterns come from. Don’t spare them too much, they might really be helpful. You wrote they have already lost a son. Well, not communicating about the things that really matter, do you think that’s a good idea? Isn’t this a way to lose someone basically? I mean one should be careful about giving such advice because no one knows deeper backgrounds, but, well, keep in mind that there could also come some real help from your parents. All the best to you! Sumi
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On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 03:41:19 -0400, the world was enlightented by sumire, unto whom the words are attributed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hey man, I made it through your answer, but > please gimme some feedback whether I understood > you correctly: Anon should forget about the > trophies and all the excellence, he should simply enjoy > doing sports, enjoy playing…. > Hmmm, Munstaaahhh! And what about you? > How many Budweisers have you been enjoying by the > time you posted the above? > Spiralling into the bottomless pit once again? > Or just above yourself in a cloud of alcohol? > What’s up? > I’m concerned as you have told all about those sharp and pointed tools in > your place – hope you keep your fingers > off them as long as …. yes – what?
Not Bud, just bitter (dunkel bier?). No idea how many, few enough though, it doesn’t take a lot to get me drunk! > Any hangover then? > Anything that could help?
No, no hangover, but did have the surprise at discovering my first speaker had been finished in the night, and someone had eaten a pizza… As to the bottomless pit, I didn’t really get out of it (apart from that recent visit to the moon, of course), but certainly not spiraling down. Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk
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On Fri, 11 Jun 2004 09:00:28 +0100, the world was enlightented by Anon, unto whom the words are attributed: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Yeah Monster gotta stop the drinking, it helps sure (despite what everyone > says it does help) but you should stop the drink. > While I’m not a heavy drinker or anywhere near an alcoholic I’m stopping > drinking when depressed now (promised myself after yesterday). It was kinda > getting worrying, even though I only ever had 20cl max. (well this year > anyway) in a depressed drinking session it still isn’t right. > Ironically the only reason I stopped though was cause I need to work out and > not get headaches, not for some reason of not drinking. > And besides, it’s better when you stop cause then you can start up again in > a month or whenever and get less alcohol to get you drunk cause your built > up tolerance erodes away with time. > Lecture over.
Tsk! A couple of pints and I’m anybody’s as it is! But thanks for the caring lecture Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk
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On Sat, 12 Jun 2004 10:42:03 +0000, the world was enlightented by Prayer Capsule Activation Event, unto whom the words are attributed: > "sumire" <sumire_kawab…@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in > news:770b36d122494d69486f6eb60e9bb8fc@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: >> The English language has the expression : *enjoy yourself* >> which does not exist in my language. In German you >> can only enjoy something else, not yourself. >> I’ll come back to enjoyment later. > HA! I’ve enjoyed myself countless times since puberty…interesting > observation, however.
Funny thing language. In English you can say, "I’m hot" but in German you have to say "it is hot to me" otherwise you are saying you are horny! Monster — I am the sexiest man in the UuuuKaaaayy All the girls love me And I will never grow Ooollldd I am the sexiest man in the UuuKaaaay! http://www.the-monstruum.co.uk
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Suppose you mean masturbation. Okay, which could be a nice variant of *enjoying oneself* yet was not even included in what I wanted to say originally, hmph. Have fun, anyway Sumi
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Exactly. Where do you have your German from? Sumi
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Aaaww, my last post above looks like it was an answer to Munsta while I replied to PCA – I can’t find out how to place my posts correctly. It mostly does not matter but sometimes it does. Sorry. S.
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"sumire" <sumire_kawab…@nospam.yahoo.co.uk> wrote in news:770b36d122494d69486f6eb60e9bb8fc@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com: > The English language has the expression : *enjoy yourself* > which does not exist in my language. In German you > can only enjoy something else, not yourself. > I’ll come back to enjoyment later.
HA! I’ve enjoyed myself countless times since puberty…interesting observation, however.
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"Anon" <a…@anon.com> wrote in news:40c96d85$0$70912$c3e8da3@news.astraweb.com: > Of course I enjoy a lot of sports! I just meant Roddock (the tennis > player) has everything like most sports men, big, strong, tall, alpha > male, and he’s actually modest which I admire. It’s like the hockey > player Joe Sakic, he’s freaking awesome but modest.
For jocks that’s pretty atypical. Because they have > something they can be so confident about that it reflects in the rest > of their life.
What’s the average life span of a pro athlete other than golf? About 5-10 years max, I’d say. Then they’re out of the limelight, have racked dozens of injuries, will have early arthritis, and if they’re lucky they might be a sports commentator on the local news in Quahog, Maine. Or maybe end up as a greeter at casino in Las Vegas. It’s no conincidence that the guys good at sport at > school are the ones who (on teh whole) were happy and have happy > memories. While I was good at sport I didn’t go to a mixed school so > got none of the benefits of being good apart from trophies and such.
Big fish, small pond. Etc.
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Question:
dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message <news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com>… > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day.
(snip) Since nobody is giving that explanation, I will jump in. Maybe the sex was simply much better with the other man. I am not trying to be rude here or to hurt your feelings as a man. If the sex was better for her with the other man, it probably has nothing to do with you or him, but simply with the facts that: -he was new -it was risky and forbidden (which can be a turn on for many people) -she was depressed. Since you are following marriage councelling, you may want to bring this idea to the table. The easiest to defuse potential problems is to focus on the "new" part. Just say something like: -sex was great when we met, 9 years ago -but, as life passes, we got less passionated -the affair may have been similar to our original passion because it was new -how can we go back to our early passion? Just my 2 cents.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message <news:5dc1aa0.0405070716.2e0d3f73@posting.google.com>… > Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > from me. > The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > introspection. > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > productive? In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively > let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that. > I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is > left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love > again. Is that naive? > Dan
Okay, I’m really late responding to this thread, but if you’re still checking for replies, I think I can understand this. She probably expected you would show anger, grief, disappointment, SOMETHING. When you responded reasonably and rationally, maybe it threw her for a loop. I know it would me! Maybe she is nervous that you are still either 1) in shock, and someday all of these negative emotions will come out with a big bang; or 2) plotting your revenge, i.e., turning the other cheek as a way to perpetually torture her and never allow her and your marriage to go through the normal grieving and healing process. Because I gotta say it… I don’t believe your current attitude is healthy for either of you. *You* need to get angry and get any negative emotions out of your system. It will come bubbling to the top someday. Better to get it out now so you can move on. And, just as importantly, *she* needs to be on the receiving end of your anger, disappointment, etc. This is a part of her punishment – taking it on the chin as she deserves – and only after punishment can she then make proper amends to you. When people do something wrong, it is normal and healthy to take some sort of punishment for it. Otherwise they may feel guilty that they got away with it too easily. I suspect your wife wants to feel your wrath on this, because she feels she deserves it. She may harbor a lot of guilt and you’re not making it better by playing a saint with her. I think it’d go a long way for her if you could rant, rave, cry a bit, just so she can properly take her lumps. Your pain is her punishment. Yes, getting angry can be productive. She wants to pay her penance, but she can’t because you’re not offering one. You might want to ask yourself if, down deep, you’re not doing this on purpose. jen
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dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) writes: > Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > from me.
She is rationalizing. She may not realize that she isn’t telling you the truth, but she is either feeling guilty, or whatever distance from you she felt that enabled her to have an affair in the first place is still operating and she is (consciously or unconsciously) reluctant to admit it. > The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > introspection. > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > productive?
It isn’t. Don’t let the silly posts about how you have to storm and rage convince you of anything. > In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively > let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that. > I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is > left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love > again. Is that naive?
Yes. You need more than time. You need some active intervention either on both of your parts, or together with a therapist.
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -shinypenny0…@yahoo.com (shinypenny) wrote in message <news:c8cb5319.0405111209.f6d24ac@posting.google.com>… > dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message > Okay, I’m really late responding to this thread, but if you’re still > checking for replies, I think I can understand this. She probably > expected you would show anger, grief, disappointment, SOMETHING. When > you responded reasonably and rationally, maybe it threw her for a > loop. I know it would me! > Maybe she is nervous that you are still either 1) in shock, and > someday all of these negative emotions will come out with a big bang; > or 2) plotting your revenge, i.e., turning the other cheek as a way to > perpetually torture her and never allow her and your marriage to go > through the normal grieving and healing process. > Because I gotta say it… I don’t believe your current attitude is > healthy for either of you. > *You* need to get angry and get any negative emotions out of your > system. It will come bubbling to the top someday. Better to get it out > now so you can move on. > (snip)
I find your opinion incomprehensible. Literally. I am married. I don’t think my wife cheats on me (I never checked), but I know I would not be angry at her if she did and came back (as is the case here). I’m just like that. You are assuming that all men think like you do. Such is not the case. Now, you may be right in assuming that the woman in question thinks like you do. That she expects that her man should get angry at her. I only object to your advice above: "I don’t believe your current attitude is healthy for either of you."
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"Lauri" <res0r…@spamlessverizon.net> wrote in message
news:0vdo901ggoavrc9ghpp771j4uk76poia7o@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> On Fri, 07 May 2004 09:47:56 GMT, "Tim and Stephanie Stowe" > <stow…@sspamotrapver.net> wrote: > ><indigo_gh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > >> Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry > >> at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the > >> affair. > >Female regular posters out here. Am I the only one who gets pretty ticked > >off by the prevalence of this "females are." Are we really the universal > >bitches some of these men make us out to be? If so, why would anyone want to > >marry one of us? > So they’ll have something to bitch about when we buy bon-bons and > jewelry for our boyfriends with the Child Support. Duh. > Come visit ASD for awhile. The generalizations here in ASM will feel > much, much gentler. Generally speaking, of course. ;) > Lauri in WA > I like my email spamless
I lurked over there briefly. Once when my marriage seemed not so hot. It took about 2 days to convince me that divorce is not the answer. Of course, I already knew that… but asd helped. S
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -indigo_gh…@hotmail.com writes: > Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:2%Umc.844$iF6.129319@attbi_s02>… > > dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) writes: > > > Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > > > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > > > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > > > from me. > > She is rationalizing. She may not realize that she isn’t telling you > > the truth, but she is either feeling guilty, or whatever distance from > > you she felt that enabled her to have an affair in the first place is > > still operating and she is (consciously or unconsciously) reluctant to > > admit it. > Or she is implying that the husband is undeserving of sympathy in > this matter because he is the type of guy who would do cruel things to > his wife. > > > The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > > > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > > > introspection. > > > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > > > productive? > > It isn’t. Don’t let the silly posts about how you have to storm and > > rage convince you of anything. > I, at any rate, did not say that "you have to storm and rage". I > said that this whole picture screams about a serious lack of respect > shown towards him by his wife and that him making nothing but nice > only digs the hole deeper. > But I doubt that exhibiting a lot of anger would have helped in > these circumstances. If someone gets caught in an affair and does > nothing but play the victm she has written off the relationship, if > not the marriage. But she probably will not be the one to leave if he > supports her well.
This is very common behavior. And it doesn’t necessarily imply that the marriage is not savable.
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On 7 May 2004 08:16:08 -0700, dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote: >Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively >pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she >is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm >from me. The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while >the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of >introspection.
You know, I could be way off base but it almost sounds like maybe she was hoping, on some level, that the discovery of the affair would bring some serious issues to light? It’s also possible that she feels that your calm reaction is being interpreted by her as uncaring or uninvolved. This is just theory, and I could be totally wrong. Just a couple of thoughts which occurred to me. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless
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Doug Anderson <ethelthelogremovet…@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:2%Umc.844$iF6.129319@attbi_s02>… > dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) writes: > > Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > > from me. > She is rationalizing. She may not realize that she isn’t telling you > the truth, but she is either feeling guilty, or whatever distance from > you she felt that enabled her to have an affair in the first place is > still operating and she is (consciously or unconsciously) reluctant to > admit it.
Or she is implying that the husband is undeserving of sympathy in this matter because he is the type of guy who would do cruel things to his wife. > > The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > > introspection. > > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > > productive? > It isn’t. Don’t let the silly posts about how you have to storm and > rage convince you of anything.
I, at any rate, did not say that "you have to storm and rage". I said that this whole picture screams about a serious lack of respect shown towards him by his wife and that him making nothing but nice only digs the hole deeper. But I doubt that exhibiting a lot of anger would have helped in these circumstances. If someone gets caught in an affair and does nothing but play the victm she has written off the relationship, if not the marriage. But she probably will not be the one to leave if he supports her well. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively > > let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that. > > I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is > > left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love > > again. Is that naive? > Yes. You need more than time. You need some active intervention > either on both of your parts, or together with a therapist.
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On Fri, 07 May 2004 09:47:56 GMT, "Tim and Stephanie Stowe" <stow…@sspamotrapver.net> wrote: ><indigo_gh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message >> Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry >> at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the >> affair. >Female regular posters out here. Am I the only one who gets pretty ticked >off by the prevalence of this "females are." Are we really the universal >bitches some of these men make us out to be? If so, why would anyone want to >marry one of us?
So they’ll have something to bitch about when we buy bon-bons and jewelry for our boyfriends with the Child Support. Duh. Come visit ASD for awhile. The generalizations here in ASM will feel much, much gentler. Generally speaking, of course. ;) Lauri in WA I like my email spamless
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message <news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com>… > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > love and sweetness was always, always there. > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > during that time and that she just made a mistake; a bad choice made > in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted > her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself > financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before > that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me > knowing it). > Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. > Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it > was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an > affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head > and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. > We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect > marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an > agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time > too fast and things just spiraled out of control. > However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple > weeks and she’s still not there for me.
In other words, you are the one jumping thru hoops to fix things. She is certainly not. Who is in charge here? I am tired of suffering and > more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I > know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, > holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now > that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that > we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close > to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again > and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way.
In other words, she is calling you an asshole, at least potentially. She is claiming victim status. For her to be the victim here, you must be the victimizer. Even if you do not act the part, the role is being forced upon you. I am > certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action > now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion.
It is not a "conclusion" on her part. It is a stragedy. Victimhood equals power and she seems addicted to that. > I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been > through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part > should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the > love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get > over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can > just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to > differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to > make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s > in it?
Focus on power issues. She got caught, she wants to regain the upper hand. So she witholds affection until you do something to put yourself in the wrong. Then maybe, if she feels like it, she may relent and give you some love – when you are back in your place. The rest of you assholes want to shoot the messenger. That is easier, I guess, than answering this guys concerns. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Please help me understand this. Thanks, > Dan
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Dan <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote: > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day.
Go to marriagebuilders.com and read everything there about infidelity. Are you sure this affair has really ended?
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"Dan" <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dc1aa0.0405070716.2e0d3f73@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > from me. The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > introspection. > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > productive? In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively > let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that. > I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is > left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love > again. Is that naive? > Dan
please man do yourself and your wife a favor. leave. what guarantee do you have that she is not going to do it again, she doesn’t respect you. She broke the trust, it’s gone, can’t build on lies.
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"Dan" <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > love and sweetness was always, always there. > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > during that time and that she just made a mistake; a bad choice made > in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted > her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself > financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before > that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me > knowing it). > Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. > Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it > was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an > affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head > and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. > We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect > marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an > agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time > too fast and things just spiraled out of control. > However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple > weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and > more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I > know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, > holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now > that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that > we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close > to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again > and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way. I am > certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action > now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion. > I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been > through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part > should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the > love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get > over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can > just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to > differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to > make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s > in it? > Please help me understand this. Thanks, > Dan
Dan, I just want to share a couple of thoughts with you. First, I think before you can truly move on, the two of you need to work together to get to the underlying truth: what caused her to stray in the first place? Was it loneliness? Anger for your being away so much? Insecurity? What? Without knowing why it happened, there’s no way to know if it will happen again. The way that you describe your wife, I suspect her actions are out of guilt more than anything. It sounds to me as if she’s having trouble letting go of her guilt, and while it’s normal that she would feel guilty, not being able to cope with it is unhealthy. And if it isn’t guilt, you still need help to find out why she’s being distant. Have you (either of you) had any counseling? Any help from a pastor or marriage counselor or even a therapist? I strongly urge you to do so if you’re not already, especially for your wife. Understand that, in order for your marriage reconciliation to work, you need to be able to trust her…and right now it almost seems as if she doesn’t trust herself or her choices. kimberly
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"Tim and Stephanie Stowe" <stow…@sspamotrapver.net> wrote in message news:gXImc.2368$Ua5.1702935@monger.newsread.com… > > Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry > > at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the > > affair. > Female regular posters out here. Am I the only one who gets pretty ticked > off by the prevalence of this "females are." Are we really the universal > bitches some of these men make us out to be? If so, why would anyone want to > marry one of us?
No, you aren’t alone. It isn’t just that it ticks me off, either – I think it does a disservice to readers who may really be looking for help, in that it creates an unnecessary and artificial polarization. It is more than just irritating, it prevents a useful discourse. Once in a while I point this out to somebody who is carrying on in this vein. It hardly ever seems helpful, though, so it usually doesn’t seem worth the energy. FWIW, this seems like an even bigger problem on ASD. Joy
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In article <5dc1aa0.0405070716.2e0d3…@posting.google.com>, Dan wrote: > Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively > pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she > is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm > from me. The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while > the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of > introspection.
"Sticks to the story" indicates a lack of respect on your part for her position in this case. > I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that > productive? In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively > let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that.
I don’t blame her for being confused — you *should* be angry at her over this, and she might be (understandably) afraid that you’re supressing your anger instead of dealing with it. > I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is > left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love > again. Is that naive?
Yes. You both need to work on strengthening your relationship together, and she needs to see that you’re getting your negative feelings (anger, jealousy, hurt and contempt) out there as well as her getting all her "trash" out. Regardless of the past events, going forward you are both equals, so you can’t treat her like she’s the only one with "bad" emotions. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Dan
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Thanks for the input – what a confusing time. We are aggressively pursuing marriage counseling. She still sticks to the story that she is afraid to be close to me now in anticipation of some coming storm from me. The thing is, I have had a lot of alone time already while the affair was going on to feel all the bad feelings and do a lot of introspection. I am not sure that I have to be angry and explode at her. How is that productive? In talking to her, I am more mad at how we collectively let things spiral out of control so quickly and she agrees with that. I am hopeful that a little time will let her get out whatever trash is left over in her system from this dark time and start to live and love again. Is that naive? Dan
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"Tim and Stephanie Stowe" <stow…@sspamotrapver.net> writes: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> <indigo_gh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:b0ed0eef.0405070057.5ca8517e@posting.google.com… > > dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message > <news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com>… > > > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > > > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > > > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > > > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > > > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > > > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > > > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > > > love and sweetness was always, always there. > > > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > > > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > > > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > > > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > > > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > > > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > > > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > > > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > > > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > > > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > > > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > > > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > > > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > > > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > > > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > > > during that time and that she just made a mistake; > > On general principals, apart from the details of your situation, > > here are some ideas. > > Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry > > at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the > > affair. > Female regular posters out here. Am I the only one who gets pretty ticked > off by the prevalence of this "females are."
I’m not a female poster, but I get ticked off by this too.
Response:
<indigo_gh…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:b0ed0eef.0405070057.5ca8517e@posting.google.com… > dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message
<news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > > love and sweetness was always, always there. > > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > > during that time and that she just made a mistake; > On general principals, apart from the details of your situation, > here are some ideas. > Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry > at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the > affair.
Female regular posters out here. Am I the only one who gets pretty ticked off by the prevalence of this "females are." Are we really the universal bitches some of these men make us out to be? If so, why would anyone want to marry one of us? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> If she is the type of person who seeks to get out of > responsibilties by taking on the role of "victim" your current > approach is making her angry. She will not be happy again until she > can point to you as the bad guy. > There is a sort of contradiction between these ideas but it goes > away when you realize that the likely dynamic underlying all of this > is that she does not love and respect you nearly as much as she says. > A lot of women crave being with rough, dangerous types of men. You > are clearly the opposite of that. But you make a good living, so she > is conflicted. > a bad choice made > > in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted > > her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself > > financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before > > that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me > > knowing it). > > Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. > > Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it > > was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an > > affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head > > and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. > > We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect > > marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an > > agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time > > too fast and things just spiraled out of control. > > However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple > > weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and > > more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I > > know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, > > holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now > > that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that > > we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close > > to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again > > and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way. I am > > certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action > > now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion. > > I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been > > through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part > > should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the > > love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get > > over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can > > just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to > > differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to > > make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s > > in it? > > Please help me understand this. Thanks, > > Dan
Response:
"Dan" <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com… > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her.
I don’t know. I’m only hypothesizing here and could be way off base. Could it be that she was not ready to end the affair but perhaps felt obligated/forced to end the affair when faced with the threat of divorce? I hope everything works out for you.
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -dan…@hotmail.com (Dan) wrote in message <news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com>… > I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > love and sweetness was always, always there. > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > during that time and that she just made a mistake;
On general principals, apart from the details of your situation, here are some ideas. Women instinctively lose respect for a man who does not get angry at such a time. Lack of respect for you is part of the story from the affair. If she is the type of person who seeks to get out of responsibilties by taking on the role of "victim" your current approach is making her angry. She will not be happy again until she can point to you as the bad guy. There is a sort of contradiction between these ideas but it goes away when you realize that the likely dynamic underlying all of this is that she does not love and respect you nearly as much as she says. A lot of women crave being with rough, dangerous types of men. You are clearly the opposite of that. But you make a good living, so she is conflicted. a bad choice made – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted > her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself > financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before > that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me > knowing it). > Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. > Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it > was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an > affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head > and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. > We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect > marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an > agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time > too fast and things just spiraled out of control. > However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple > weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and > more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I > know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, > holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now > that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that > we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close > to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again > and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way. I am > certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action > now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion. > I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been > through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part > should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the > love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get > over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can > just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to > differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to > make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s > in it? > Please help me understand this. Thanks, > Dan
Response:
Whisper wrote: > She stepped outside your marriage for a reason.. that "reason" is > still there….you need to fix that..before you can really move past > it..
Yes. The reason may have more to do with what is going on inside your wife, Dan, than you or your relationship, despite some obvious triggers in your recent history. > I suggest marriage counseling ..
Ditto. Tai – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Kass > "Dan" <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com… >> I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. >> My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get >> past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. >> Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): >> We met, fell madly in love and got married. >> We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked >> hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the >> love and sweetness was always, always there. >> We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally >> getting smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, >> the kids are both getting older and into all day school. The >> happiness is evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the >> memories of all the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and >> cards from as recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like >> "I’m so glad we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my >> soulmate". >> In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I >> ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a >> week, weekends home). Things became strained during this time >> because we were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the >> weekends. It was during this time that she got depressed and got >> into her affair. It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after >> I confronted her. >> I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole >> thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost >> during that time and that she just made a mistake; a bad choice made >> in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted >> her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself >> financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before >> that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me >> knowing it). >> Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. >> Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while >> it was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an >> affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her >> head and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me >> too. We have always been very close, some might even say we had the >> perfect marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to >> an agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone >> time too fast and things just spiraled out of control. >> However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple >> weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and >> more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I >> know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, >> holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. >> Now that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying >> that we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be >> close to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be >> comfortable again and then throw this in her face or make her pay in >> some way. I am certainly not feeling that way and have not >> demonstrated any action now or in the past that would lead her to >> that conclusion. >> I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone >> been through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard >> part should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want >> the love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to >> get over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she >> can just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg >> to differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I >> want to make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only >> me that’s in it? >> Please help me understand this. Thanks, >> Dan
Response:
She stepped outside your marriage for a reason.. that "reason" is still there….you need to fix that..before you can really move past it.. I suggest marriage counseling .. Kass "Dan" <dan…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:5dc1aa0.0405061726.4681ee4c@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. > My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get > past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. > Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): > We met, fell madly in love and got married. > We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked > hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the > love and sweetness was always, always there. > We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting > smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are > both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is > evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all > the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as > recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad > we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". > In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I > ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, > weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we > were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It > was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. > It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. > I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole > thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost > during that time and that she just made a mistake; a bad choice made > in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted > her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself > financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before > that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me > knowing it). > Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. > Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it > was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an > affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head > and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. > We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect > marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an > agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time > too fast and things just spiraled out of control. > However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple > weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and > more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I > know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, > holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now > that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that > we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close > to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again > and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way. I am > certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action > now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion. > I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been > through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part > should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the > love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get > over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can > just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to > differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to > make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s > in it? > Please help me understand this. Thanks, > Dan
Response:
I have never posted before but really need to reach out to somebody. My wife just ended a brief (~3 month) affair and we are trying to get past it, but there seem to be more obstacles popping up every day. Here’s the history (brief as I coud, sorry): We met, fell madly in love and got married. We had two children in our first three years, had no money and worked hard together to build a family, get a house, etc. All the while, the love and sweetness was always, always there. We had 9 1/2 very happy years together and things were finally getting smooth as I was making good money, we improved our house, the kids are both getting older and into all day school. The happiness is evidencedx not only from mutual conversations and the memories of all the laughter and sweetness but also by letters and cards from as recently as last Christmas (2003) saying things like "I’m so glad we’re still best friends" and "I’m so happy I found my soulmate". In January of this year (2004) my job became very demanding and I ended up having to spend about 3 months in Maine (about 4 days a week, weekends home). Things became strained during this time because we were apart more than ever and totally exhausted on the weekends. It was during this time that she got depressed and got into her affair. It was about two weeks ago that she ended it after I confronted her. I never got angry. I have shown nothing but love through the whole thing. I acknowledged that it was both of our faults for getting lost during that time and that she just made a mistake; a bad choice made in desperation and then couldn’t stop it until I finally confronted her and threatened divorce (it was no threat, I prepared myself financially, emotionally, etc. after confronting her a week before that and then knowing it was still going on even in light of me knowing it). Now she is back and we have been here together for a couple weeks. Things are certainly better as she was very mean and uncaring while it was going on which I understand to be typical of anyone having an affair. We have been amicable, but there is a lot going on in her head and mine. However, I do truly love her and she says she does me too. We have always been very close, some might even say we had the perfect marriage. At first, we talked a lot and we seemed to come to an agreement about what happened as being a matter of too much alone time too fast and things just spiraled out of control. However, I have tried hard to reach out to her for the past couple weeks and she’s still not there for me. I am tired of suffering and more tired of seeing her suffer. We know how to love each other and I know it would help me heal to be able to be close to her; hugging, holding, kissing, etc. She still seems cold to all of that though. Now that we’ve gotten through the first couple weeks, she is saying that we did have problems before and she’s scared to let herself be close to me for fear that I am going to wait for her to be comfortable again and then throw this in her face or make her pay in some way. I am certainly not feeling that way and have not demonstrated any action now or in the past that would lead her to that conclusion. I guess my question to the group is "Is this normal?". Has anyone been through a similar situation? Any advice? I feel like the hard part should have been me getting over it, but I have and I just want the love of my life back. Now though it seems it’s harder for her to get over it than me. She says it’s not like a light switch that she can just turn back on, but I am living the same experience and I beg to differ. The hurting is over, we have forgiven each other and I want to make things fell right. But how can I do that when it’s only me that’s in it? Please help me understand this. Thanks, Dan
Response:
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Who Cares wrote: >>Not so. This is an article from the Honolulu Advertiser supplement "body >>& mind" dated September 2003. >>How To Change Personalities >> Your personality is not set in stone in your 20s as once thought, say >>researchers who insist we can become better people past age 30 if we >>want to. >> In fact, key personality changes do occur well into adulthood, says >>researchers at the University of California -Berkeley, who measured: >>conscientiousness; agreeableness; neuroticism; openness; and >>extroversion in 132,515 adults ages 21 to 60. > I dunno the details of the study. But a study of this scope has its > limitations. Definitions, measuring techniques, sample, social roles etc > etc. What is the study hoping to answer? Are they saying that change is > natural, or socially induced?
Well, at the very least it is possible, which should be encouraging news to those who want to change and a bit of a disappointment to those who believe people have some immutable core and can only learn to cope with their limitations not overcome them. -M
Response:
On Sat, 1 May 2004 23:25:14 +1000, "peter scanlan" <scan…@optusnet.com.au> wrote: >I hope people don’t stop growing at 30. >How boring life must be after 30 if that is so.
Problem is, people that are "normal" (not social phobic/ shy) have grown well past where you are at, when you get older. Makes life kind of tough, when you cannot relate to your peers. So you get tough or you die, first inside, then later on, you die for real. And you cant wait for it to come , for death is the one thing certain to happen that will relieve you of the pain for good. Its really not a very pleasant way to spend your older years.
Response:
> Not so. This is an article from the Honolulu Advertiser supplement "body > & mind" dated September 2003. > How To Change Personalities > Your personality is not set in stone in your 20s as once thought, say > researchers who insist we can become better people past age 30 if we > want to. > In fact, key personality changes do occur well into adulthood, says > researchers at the University of California -Berkeley, who measured: > conscientiousness; agreeableness; neuroticism; openness; and > extroversion in 132,515 adults ages 21 to 60.
I dunno the details of the study. But a study of this scope has its limitations. Definitions, measuring techniques, sample, social roles etc etc. What is the study hoping to answer? Are they saying that change is natural, or socially induced? > Conscientiousness: Increases throughout adulthood, as shown by being > organized, playful and disciplined.
It could also be determined mainly by social role and status. Most people in their thirties have kids around 5-10. This adds to their responsibilities .. and therefore translates into work ethic. A lot of people are hard working during that time .. but how does simply measuring how hard they work actually say anything about whether it is because they want to be .. not because they have to be? > Openness: Declines with age in men and women.
Meaning what? People slowly unlearn how to be open .. open to what? change? themselves? others? cultures? I fail to see how that can happen. Im not even near my 30s yet .. but I would expect to become more open (if openness means what I think it means) with age, rather then less. > Extroversion: Declines for women; no change in men.
Obviously .. but that could also be most of them get married and end up in the home. It has more to do with socialization rather than by choice. Growing up, I remember my mum loved to go out .. meet people .. have parties and such .. but slowly, she stopped having them .. not by choice .. but because dad didn’t allow it. > "Average levels of personality traits changed gradually but > systematically throughout the lifespan, sometimes even more after age 30 > than before," the researchers wrote in the Journal of Personality and > Social Psychology. > "Increasing conscientiousness and agreeableness and decreasing > neuroticism in adulthood may indicate increasing maturity – people > becoming on the average better adapted as they get older, well into > middle age."
Talk about a breakthrough! Seriously though, I think they could’ve improved the study by adding things like social roles, status, jobs, … Can I get more details on the study please? Because to me .. it seems reeeeally simplistic and not answering enough questions … rather adding more.
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x-no-archive: Yes who can cure loneliness? it must come from within. I lack the qualities needed to remedy it. i will be lonely forever. those of you who by 30 have not addressed your deficiencies, it is probably too late. behavioral change becomes harder with time.
Response:
I hope people don’t stop growing at 30. How boring life must be after 30 if that is so. The adventure of my exploration of self has been enthused dramatically by my grandmother’s openness to growth and change until she died at 92. If we are not open to change we will die, even though our bodies may live on "tariq rahim" <tariq.1.ra…@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message
news:722fadc0.0404302139.64451b3f@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> x-no-archive: Yes > who can cure loneliness? it must come from within. > I lack the qualities needed to remedy it. i will be lonely forever. > those of you who by 30 have not addressed your deficiencies, it is > probably too late. behavioral change becomes harder with time.
Response:
> "tariq rahim" <tariq.1.ra…@spamgourmet.com> wrote in message news:722fadc0.0404302139.64451b3f@posting.google.com… >>who can cure loneliness? it must come from within. >>I lack the qualities needed to remedy it. i will be lonely forever. those of you who by 30 have not addressed your deficiencies, it is probably too late. behavioral change becomes harder with time. peter scanlan wrote: > I hope people don’t stop growing at 30. > How boring life must be after 30 if that is so. > The adventure of my exploration of self has been enthused dramatically by my grandmother’s openness to growth and change until she died at 92. If we are not open to change we will die, even though our bodies may live on
‘harder’ is not another word for ‘impossible’ but it is another word for ‘improbable’ :-
Response:
On 30 Apr 2004 22:39:09 -0700, tariq.1.ra…@spamgourmet.com (tariq rahim) wrote: >x-no-archive: Yes >who can cure loneliness? it must come from within. >I lack the qualities needed to remedy it. i will be lonely forever.
So what qualities do you lack that are needed? >those of you who by 30 have not addressed your deficiencies, it is >probably too late. behavioral change becomes harder with time.
You can adjust and adapt to a life living in solitude - to finding your own happiness in whatever ways you can - but you don’t have to if you don’t want to. Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– You have to find happiness wherever you can, and happiness always has a price – there will be some misery as a cost to go with it, and THAT is what gives happiness it’s value. - Solitary Soul
Response:
"peter scanlan" <scan…@optusnet.com.au> wrote in message <news:4093a41b$0$20347$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au>… > I hope people don’t stop growing at 30. > How boring life must be after 30 if that is so.
It is absolutely not so. I didn’t even really feel like I was a grownup until I was 31, already married with 2 kids. And creatively, I hadn’t even begun then. The bible talks constantly about the value of wisdom and maturity. David wasn’t even crowned King until age 4o, Abraham and Sarah didn’t have their first child until she was over 80, even Jesus didn’t enter the fullness of his ministry until He was 30! You don’t ever have to stop growing, changing. I believe even in the world to come we will continue to grow and evolve. Bobbie, 43 years old last Friday…
Response:
tariq rahim wrote: > x-no-archive: Yes > who can cure loneliness? it must come from within.
The will to change, is from within. > those of you who by 30 have not addressed your deficiencies, it is > probably too late. behavioral change becomes harder with time.
Not so. This is an article from the Honolulu Advertiser supplement "body & mind" dated September 2003. How To Change Personalities Your personality is not set in stone in your 20s as once thought, say researchers who insist we can become better people past age 30 if we want to. In fact, key personality changes do occur well into adulthood, says researchers at the University of California -Berkeley, who measured: conscientiousness; agreeableness; neuroticism; openness; and extroversion in 132,515 adults ages 21 to 60. Conscientiousness: Increases throughout adulthood, as shown by being organized, playful and disciplined. Agreeableness: (being warm, generous and helpful) Increases the most during a person’s 30 years of age. Neuroticism: (worrying or being emotionally unstable) Declines in age for women but not for men. Openness: Declines with age in men and women. Extroversion: Declines for women; no change in men. "Average levels of personality traits changed gradually but systematically throughout the lifespan, sometimes even more after age 30 than before," the researchers wrote in the Journal of Personality and Social Psychology. "Increasing conscientiousness and agreeableness and decreasing neuroticism in adulthood may indicate increasing maturity – people becoming on the average better adapted as they get older, well into middle age." This message brought to you by Lonely "but not alone" God. — "You can make more friends in two months by becoming genuinely interested in other people than you can in two years by trying to get other people interested in you." – Dale Carnegie
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If your only problem is being shy… get over it.
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Question:
> Clockmeister’s post: >> Do you know anything about Genesis? > The crappy band that was fronted by the equally crappy Phil Collins at one > time?
That’s them. (shirley you mean they?) But I defy anyone to tell me that the Genesis Aisle Of Plenty lyrics, "I don’t belong here", said old Tessa out loud. "Easy, love, there’s the Safe Way Home." – thankful for her Fine Fair discount, Tess Co-operates Still alone in o-hell-o – see the deadly nightshade grow ENGLISH RIBS OF BEEF CUT DOWN TO 47p LB PEEK FREANS FAMILY ASSORTED FROM 17 1/2 to 12 FAIRY LIQUID GIANT – SLASHED FROM 20p TO 17 1/2 TABLE JELLYS AT 4p EACH ANCHOR BUTTER DOWN TO 11p FOR A 1/2 BIRDS EYE DAIRY CREAM SPONGE ON OFFER THIS WEEK. It’s Scrambled Eggs." Aren’t brilliant lyrics. Now, if only Graham Wellington would tell me what they meant.
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Eerie Smilodon of Unusual Size & Typing Ability’s post: > Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely from the > darkest depths of chaosnews:BC8C8CC5.4C33%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: >>> I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this guitar >>> part, I just can’t hack it". >> You can bank on it. > ??
Just a thin allusion to Tony but, technically speaking, I should have written: You can banks on it. (possibly even capitalizing the B). OTOH it was a ruther fordsd link.
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> Rockinghorse Winner’s post:
Sorry, I’ve merged the posts again. > Socially, not much. Used to, when I was younger. I just forgot how to play > the game. I don’t see the point, any more.
I didn’t much see the point in ‘the game’ even when I was younger. People saying stuff they didn’t mean and doing the exact opposite anyway… It’s actually possible that ‘the game’ is only worth playing when one really knows what one wants from the players. When I was in my teens I had no idea what I wanted and neither did my social group really – no wonder it was a seething mess of hormonally fired social dysfunction. (a bit like some of these NGs.) > I do get out into nature. It’s the only friend I have. > I especially enjoy the desert. The isolation seems to agree with my soul. I > also go diving off the beach. It’s another kind of therapy.
You left NY when you were mid twenties so what happened to all the so-called friends you’ve made in the twenty years of living in LA? Are you still hanging on to the people you left behind? We have no deserts around here… no beach, no water (it’s all been ‘conduited’) and not much nature. I’d love to be near the sea especially a warm, clear reef teeming with fishy life. > Every once in a while, I meet someone. The last one didn’t ease my > loneliness. I don’t really know what’s going on in my head. Maybe it’s just > a matter of getting older (mid 40’s) and more numb as the years go by.
Which means that being alone and happy (with moments of misery) beats being with someone and miserable (even if one gets flashes of happiness). Perhaps? It’s useful to build up a system of self-reliance… in the end we are all alone. >> Could you not go back to NY? > Ive thought about it, but all my means of support (financial) are here. > I’ve made a life of some sorts for myself here, even if that life doesn’t > include companionship. > i prolly would be happier in ny. however i’m too old to start from scratch. > To quote pink floyd, I guess I’m comfortably numb.
Perhaps when you retire you could go back to NY (city or state somewhere). I’m ‘planning’ to retire to the Maldives (if they’re still above water by that time). I’m in my forties and I’m having to start over (with my work life) – enforced isolation, but I’m actually enjoying it… I have my moments of irresolute blankness; they don’t last fortunately. I’ve had my mid-life crises and they didn’t kill me… so here I am 42 and it’s not so bad. I know what you mean about being trapped by a job; I’m stuck in a miserable town here in the UK and am hankering to move out, but my husband’s job keeps us tied to this area. I’m lucky in tons of ways: I have a very small number of friends worth having and stable homelife/finances (so far), I don’t have any major physical problems (as yet) and no stinking kids to worry about. That Comfortably Numb track is beautiful really I think. I’ll have another listen…Sklenge adds parts of wall to iTunes… Thanks for that, R*Horse, I haven’t listened to Pink Floyd in ages. Sklenge. Not depressed anymore thanks.
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It’s because I think that there’s a lot of irony and self-loathing in our culture. People like me get pointed at in the street – in the good old days, it was just a jar to the ego – nowadays, everyone is fair game if there’s more of them than there is of you. OTS "Rockinghorse Winner" <rockingho…@anonymous.to> wrote in message
news:t89a601hvc9kh3mljq7pttgvfq7r9snpi6@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi. I am a lurker. Only have posted a few hit and run messages. But I was > wondering why so many brits post here. Is there a lonely streak in the brit > personality type or something? I’m serious. It is kind of funny. > I don’t want to be mean. In fact, I have gained alot of support from reading > the posts here, and I feel less lonely, just knowing there are others > suffering the same problems as me. > Regards! > — > "I remember how, at one battle in Gaul, members of > the Tenth Legion banged the bejesus out of the enemy with their shields > when their swords were gone." > -James Thurber > CUL8R > R*Horse > www.sonic.net/~lkokot > "Take a look behind you – upstream – now you begin to > recognize this country, don’t you?" > "Yes, I do recognize it now. It is the most wonderful > thing I ever heard of; by a long shot the most > wonderful – and unexpected." > Mark Twain > Life on the Mississippi
— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.631 / Virus Database: 404 – Release Date: 17/03/2004
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Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message <news:BC8AD9BE.48FF%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk>… > Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > > Hi. I am a lurker. Only have posted a few hit and run messages. But I was > > wondering why so many brits post here.
I wasn’t aware there were that many. There are probably more British than Spanish, Ollish or Quebecers, but I’ve always assumed that 90% of posters here are from Orange County, the same as on any other newsgroup. > Is there a lonely streak in the brit > > personality type or something?
It probably has to do with the weather, and with the way all British TVs are colour-adjusted to turn newsreaders’ noses purple. It gets to you after a while. > I’m serious. It is kind of funny.
Trevor MacDonald with a purple nose isn’t funny, it’s tragic. > > I don’t want to be mean. In fact, I have gained alot of support from reading > > the posts here, and I feel less lonely, just knowing there are others > > suffering the same problems as me.
Do you have middle-ear eczema too? 
Oh, joy. > Another thing to do when lonely/sad, as I’ve said before, is shove some > Benny Goodman or Motown or 70’s funk on and bop around the house like an > idiot – I obviously can’t be depressed if I’m dancing with my weeping fig.
Do weeping figs work for dancing to Glenn Miller? (Got Elmer’s toon running at the minute) Yesterday I considered the possibility of buying a jasmine. Seems they don’t dance too good but they smell nice. Lately I’ve been getting seriously into smells. Possibly partly because, having given up smoking I can now actually detect them for the first time, also partly because my nostrils would appear to be the only remaining orifice in my body not currently subject to blockage, infection, bleeding, spasm and general ickiness. > If all else fails post to NGs. Just reading how crappy everyone else’s life > is continuing to be, can encourage you to wade happily through your own > batch of crap. > Do you know anything about Genesis?
70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in future decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to work out what they mean. Next?
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> OB’s post: >> Another thing to do when lonely/sad, as I’ve said before, is shove some >> Benny Goodman or Motown or 70’s funk on and bop around the house like an >> idiot – I obviously can’t be depressed if I’m dancing with my weeping fig. > Do weeping figs work for dancing to Glenn Miller? (Got Elmer’s toon > running at the minute)
Yes they’ll dance to anything they’re dancing divas. I think like most plants they like anything by Earth, Wind and Fire but only if you’ve got some Waterboys on standby. > Yesterday I considered the possibility of buying a jasmine. Seems they > don’t dance too good but they smell nice.
They can become wallflowers if you don’t make the effort to ask them for a dance. So stop being shy and ask them! > my nostrils would appear to be the only remaining orifice in > my body not currently subject to blockage, infection, bleeding, spasm > and general ickiness.
Sounds lovely! especially the infectious bleeding spasm >> Do you know anything about Genesis? > 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible lyrics with > the malevolent intention of causing people in future decades to waste > inordinate amounts of time trying to work out what they mean. > Next?
I’m only trying to waste Graham Wellie’s time at the moment. He still hasn’t got back to me and I’m simply aching to know what they meant by: "Going round in circles, hearing too many points of view Just words to tire me out, small talk I could do without I would be amazed if you returned to see things my way Now that you’ve been disrespectful to my sense of pride" I’m sure he’s the man to ask. Perhaps they prophecized newsgroups. Now where did I put my Lamb Lies Down Libretto.
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"Sklenge" <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BC8AD9BE.48FF%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > > Hi. I am a lurker. Only have posted a few hit and run messages. But I was > > wondering why so many brits post here. Is there a lonely streak in the brit > > personality type or something? I’m serious. It is kind of funny. > > I don’t want to be mean. In fact, I have gained alot of support from reading > > the posts here, and I feel less lonely, just knowing there are others > > suffering the same problems as me. > > Regards! > Are we really mostly British? Perhaps it’s got something to do with being an > island race thing or something? Is it a problem though? No I didn’t think > so. > Where are you from? Mississippi or Gaul? > I’m not lonely though, I’m generally happy to be alone. Whenever I have got > lonely I find something to do like… visit my family to goad them a bit – > they’re always up for a jolly bit of political debate. When you’ve spent a > few hours debating politics with your father or brother then you’re glad to > get back home and be ‘lonely’ again. > Another thing to do when lonely/sad, as I’ve said before, is shove some > Benny Goodman or Motown or 70’s funk on and bop around the house like an > idiot – I obviously can’t be depressed if I’m dancing with my weeping fig. > If all else fails post to NGs. Just reading how crappy everyone else’s life > is continuing to be, can encourage you to wade happily through your own > batch of crap. > Do you know anything about Genesis?
The crappy band that was fronted by the equally crappy Phil Collins at one time?
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Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:BC8C8CC5.4C33%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: >> I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this guitar >> part, I just can’t hack it". > You can bank on it.
?? — Perhaps the thorniest problem facing any young man is finding a woman in the first place. It turns out to be–nearly impossible….This grainy photograph is the only direct evidence we have of a woman in her natural environment. The longer hair, the gentle and nurturing demeanor, are typical of how witnesses describe their supposed encounters with women. Someday, perhaps, an actual woman will emerge…(on screen we see a silhouette of a woman, with a question mark over her face) …and they will no longer exist only in the realm of myth and maybe. Thank you. –Crow T. Robot. "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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On Sat, 27 Mar 2004 18:57:37 -0800, the world was enlightented by Rockinghorse Winner, unto whom the words are attributed: > It has been reported by the Department of Homeland Security that on Sat, 27 > Mar 2004 07:11:58 +0000 or thereabouts, Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote > the following intercepted missive: >>If all else fails post to NGs. Just reading how crappy everyone else’s life >>is continuing to be, can encourage you to wade happily through your own >>batch of crap.
True. > That is just what I mean. I guess that’s support of some kind. Although it > should have it’s own name. Delighting in other’s misfortune is too strong.
Vicarious support? > maybe: observing life’s lessons at a safe distance? I get the same > consolation as I do from reading a book with a lonely person in it. I > can look at loneliness with more understanding somehow, when it’s > someone else. When I look at it in myself, I just detest myself.
Awww… Why not try to see it as alone-ness, rather than loneliness, then? Sort of put a more positive slant on things? > I’m not sure I did the right thing by starting a conversation here. > Everyone will probably hate me and think i’m a kook — that’s what > happens in real life.
What’s a kook? Sounds like the way I pronounce cook! Anyway, I don’t, for one :0) Monster — Who stole my sig? Who stole it? Own up, dammit!! It was YOU, wasn’t it?
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zorn’s post: > Like that. Or if they killed themselves, if they are abusive in a number of > ways or if they just don’t care about you.
I haven’t had to face the death of a close friend. Well once I have but he was a work colleague who was great fun and it hit me hard when his secretary said he was dead. I knew he was ill and had been writing to him in hospital; but to hear it like that over the phone the day before the funeral that hurt. I was glad to be able to make it to the funeral and see how much people thought of him. (Nothing like the funeral I expect to have: That’ll be me in the box and a guy from the council doing the honours). I haven’t even had to deal with the death of a close family relative yet. It can’t be too long now though; I have a few precious years left with my father I suppose, (there’s nothing to say that I won’t go first, of course). I’ve felt someone else’s icy stare before though…Someone I loved and who had stopped loving me back. I don’t like that look and I’ve never had to give it to anyone thankfully… > Yeah, its nice to be alone sometimes. Especially when there is someone > waiting for you that you love, and who loves you. A home where one is > welcomed and warmed. > A pity not to have a home like that. > OH NO!! I think I’m getting bitter! But no worries, its just a reaction, > it’ll pass soon. > zorn
Do you not have a home where your welcomed and warmed then? Many people resort to getting a ‘companion animal’. I’m afraid my way of filling the gap is to make up people who I want to talk to and hold fairly intelligent conversations with them, well sometimes they can say some stupid things but then I just talk to someone else… Now I know that this is just three steps away from being a deranged old lady in a Pac-a-Mac who goes up to strangers in the street shouting "arse!" but I don’t care, I’m right on schedule for that. It’s better than being bitter.
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Eerie Smilodon of Unusual Size & Typing Ability’s post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the > darkest depths of > chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403271613.4ac7d3f3@posting.google.com: >> "The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi" <a…@at.org> wrote in >> message <news:Xns94B9564F34AE2refusetoactcom@68.6.19.6>… >>> nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the >>> darkest depths of >>> chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: >>>> 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible >>>> lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in >>>> future decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to >>>> work out what they mean. >>> How many writing sessions do you suppose must have been >>> punctuated with the remark, "Oh mon I’m so high right now…" >>> ? >> I dunno, not aware of any band members famous for saying "mon". >> I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this >> guitar part, I just can’t hack it". > Mebbe Phil kept thinking geez you just can’t dance to this shit!
chortle…
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OB’s post: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi" <a…@at.org> wrote in message > <news:Xns94B9564F34AE2refusetoactcom@68.6.19.6>… >> nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the >> darkest depths of >> chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: >>> 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible >>> lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in future >>> decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to work out >>> what they mean. >> How many writing sessions do you suppose must have been punctuated >> with the remark, "Oh mon I’m so high right now…" ? > I dunno, not aware of any band members famous for saying "mon". > I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this guitar > part, I just can’t hack it".
You can bank on it.
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Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > It has been reported by the Department of Homeland Security that on Sat, 27 > Mar 2004 12:27:33 +0000 or thereabouts, Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote > the following intercepted missive: >> Or if you >> move to a new town/city and don’t know a soul there? > — > Happened to me when I moved to la from ny. I’ve never adjusted to the things > here. I find I hate everything about this town: the way people drive, they way > they talk, act, the talking heads on tv, the bars, the newspapers — > everything gives me the creeps. I guess I’m just having a 20 year streak of > homesickness.
Could you not go back to NY? If you were happier there and hate it in LA… It seems like a long time to be miserable. Otherwise…you will need to find a way to deaden the effect. (Oh, well done Sklenge you don’t say!)… > I’m not sure I did the right thing by starting a conversation here. > Everyone will probably hate me and think i’m a kook — > that’s what happens in real ife.
So far this isn’t happening… How kooky are you IRL?
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Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > Funny, I’ve always thought that Brits and by extension europeans and > newzealanders and austrailians, have it easier. They seem to express > themselves so much clearer and logically than americans. > Funny how brits can be witty whenever they want. > I think americans mull more over things. Maybe brits are well > represented here because they can actually talk about their feelings better. > R*Horse
What a sweet conclusion… So you’re a USer are you? During my stay on this planet I’ve only met four Americans so far. You don’t get out much perhaps?
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nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403271613.4ac7d3f3@posting.google.com: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi" <a…@at.org> wrote in > message <news:Xns94B9564F34AE2refusetoactcom@68.6.19.6>… >> nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the >> darkest depths of >> chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: >> > 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible >> > lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in >> > future decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to >> > work out what they mean. >> How many writing sessions do you suppose must have been >> punctuated with the remark, "Oh mon I’m so high right now…" >> ? > I dunno, not aware of any band members famous for saying "mon". > I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this > guitar part, I just can’t hack it".
Mebbe Phil kept thinking geez you just can’t dance to this shit! — "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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"The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi" <a…@at.org> wrote in message <news:Xns94B9564F34AE2refusetoactcom@68.6.19.6>… > nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the > darkest depths of > chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: > > 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible > > lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in future > > decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to work out > > what they mean. > How many writing sessions do you suppose must have been punctuated > with the remark, "Oh mon I’m so high right now…" ?
I dunno, not aware of any band members famous for saying "mon". I suspect one or two might have been overheard saying "this guitar part, I just can’t hack it".
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"Sklenge" <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BC8B23B5.4927%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk… > > zorn’s post: > > It may not be so easy to escape loneliness for many ppl here. Not everybody > > has family that can just be visited or called, nor friends who can fulfill > > the need of human closeness. > Like people who work on research stations out in the wilderness? Or if you > move to a new town/city and don’t know a soul there? Or you split up from > your lover and all your friends have sided with your ex? Or you’re the only > one who feels one way when everyone around you is feeling the entire > opposite? All that kind of stuff?
Like that. Or if they killed themselves, if they are abusive in a number of ways or if they just don’t care about you. > I genuinely like to be alone but I don’t think I’d like to be lonely.
Yeah, its nice to be alone sometimes. Especially when there is someone waiting for you that you love, and who loves you. A home where one is welcomed and warmed. A pity not to have a home like that. OH NO!! I think I’m getting bitter! But no worries, its just a reaction, it’ll pass soon. zorn
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"The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi" <a…@at.org> wrote in message news:Xns94B95564D8FFBrefusetoactcom@68.6.19.6… > "zorn" <john….@yahoo.com> spewed forth most vilely from the > darkest depths of > chaosnews:40656a30$0$505$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk: > > I’ve found that ppl in the us always talk a lot more to each > > other than here. Maybe that makes it more dificult to be alone?? > Geez, I wish someone had told me years ago.
Well, now you know Anyhow, that was my impression. Could be wrong. zorn
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nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: > 70s prog-rock band, much given to writing incomprehensible > lyrics with the malevolent intention of causing people in future > decades to waste inordinate amounts of time trying to work out > what they mean.
How many writing sessions do you suppose must have been punctuated with the remark, "Oh mon I’m so high right now…" ? — "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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nevilemo…@yahoo.com (OB) spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:6ebc501c.0403270657.6e6821f6@posting.google.com: > but I’ve always assumed that 90% of > posters here are from Orange County, the same as on any other > newsgroup.
I think you mean 90% of the posts are from one loonie in Orange County…home of the real Disneyland… — "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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"zorn" <john….@yahoo.com> spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:40656a30$0$505$edfadb0f@dread14.news.tele.dk: > I’ve found that ppl in the us always talk a lot more to each > other than here. Maybe that makes it more dificult to be alone??
Geez, I wish someone had told me years ago. — "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely from the darkest depths of chaosnews:BC8B23B5.4927%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: > I bet the USers are still lonely. > Any US loners out there? How do you deal with those wide open > spaces?
F*** all I’d love to have some wide open spaces nearby. I’d have just as many friends as I do now, and recreation would be closer. And some fucking clean air 300 days a year. That would be sweet. — "Awesome. Awesome to the *max*." –That Eighties Guy.
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> zorn’s post: > It may not be so easy to escape loneliness for many ppl here. Not everybody > has family that can just be visited or called, nor friends who can fulfill > the need of human closeness.
Like people who work on research stations out in the wilderness? Or if you move to a new town/city and don’t know a soul there? Or you split up from your lover and all your friends have sided with your ex? Or you’re the only one who feels one way when everyone around you is feeling the entire opposite? All that kind of stuff? I genuinely like to be alone but I don’t think I’d like to be lonely. Let me think hang on. When I’m alone and bored I go into my fantasy world and imagine the people I want to be with… At the moment I’m having a wonderful time with the guy who the Verve are singing about in Bitter Sweet Symphony and some of his friends – the Carpet Crawlers for instance. And I talk to myself all the time… Who said that? > A whole other tool-box may have to be opened. Reading about other peoples > misery may help in some ways, posting with people who are "not lonely" > probably even more. I really like to lurk on all the crazy posts that go way > OT, makes me laugh and think of something else or better. Inspires me > sometimes.
I love the fun here. > Back to topic, yeah, I’ve found it weird too, so many europeans and > newzealanders and austrailians. What is wrong with us???
Isolated Islanders. That’s what it is, I bet. > I’ve found that ppl in the us always talk a lot more to each other than > here. Maybe that makes it more dificult to be alone??
I bet the USers are still lonely. Any US loners out there? How do you deal with those wide open spaces?
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"Sklenge" <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> wrote in message
news:BC8AD9BE.48FF%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk… > Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > I’m not lonely though, I’m generally happy to be alone. Whenever I have got > lonely I find something to do like… visit my family to goad them a bit – > they’re always up for a jolly bit of political debate. When you’ve spent a > few hours debating politics with your father or brother then you’re glad to > get back home and be ‘lonely’ again. > Another thing to do when lonely/sad, as I’ve said before, is shove some > Benny Goodman or Motown or 70’s funk on and bop around the house like an > idiot – I obviously can’t be depressed if I’m dancing with my weeping fig.
It may not be so easy to escape loneliness for many ppl here. Not everybody has family that can just be visited or called, nor friends who can fulfill the need of human closeness. Music or film may change the mood for a time but if the basic condition of life is to be alone, such distraction is empty. A "snap out if it", "just do like this" attitude from people who (luckily) do not quite understand, may bring around a bit of negativity, ’cause that’s what everybody else says. A whole other tool-box may have to be opened. Reading about other peoples misery may help in some ways, posting with people who are "not lonely" probably even more. I really like to lurk on all the crazy posts that go way OT, makes me laugh and think of something else or better. Inspires me sometimes. Back to topic, yeah, I’ve found it weird too, so many europeans and newzealanders and austrailians. What is wrong with us??? I’ve found that ppl in the us always talk a lot more to each other than here. Maybe that makes it more dificult to be alone?? zorn
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Rockinghorse Winner’s post: > Hi. I am a lurker. Only have posted a few hit and run messages. But I was > wondering why so many brits post here. Is there a lonely streak in the brit > personality type or something? I’m serious. It is kind of funny. > I don’t want to be mean. In fact, I have gained alot of support from reading > the posts here, and I feel less lonely, just knowing there are others > suffering the same problems as me. > Regards!
Are we really mostly British? Perhaps it’s got something to do with being an island race thing or something? Is it a problem though? No I didn’t think so. Where are you from? Mississippi or Gaul? I’m not lonely though, I’m generally happy to be alone. Whenever I have got lonely I find something to do like… visit my family to goad them a bit – they’re always up for a jolly bit of political debate. When you’ve spent a few hours debating politics with your father or brother then you’re glad to get back home and be ‘lonely’ again. Another thing to do when lonely/sad, as I’ve said before, is shove some Benny Goodman or Motown or 70’s funk on and bop around the house like an idiot – I obviously can’t be depressed if I’m dancing with my weeping fig. If all else fails post to NGs. Just reading how crappy everyone else’s life is continuing to be, can encourage you to wade happily through your own batch of crap. Do you know anything about Genesis?
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Question:
On 05 Mar 2004 01:55:53 GMT, dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) wrote: > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
Hm … is that really the best thing to point out to people in this particular group? — RK
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On Sun, 07 Mar 2004 18:56:13 -0600, RK wrote: > On 05 Mar 2004 01:55:53 GMT, dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) > wrote: >> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. > Hm … is that really the best thing to point out to people in this > particular group?
No, he should repost in alt.support.loneliness.
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>>> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>>prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. >> Hm … is that really the best thing to point out to people in this
particular group? Could you explain why it is not ? *cracks whip* :D – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->No, he should repost in alt.support.loneliness.
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mickey <mi…@hotmail.com> wrote in message <news:c2acv1$kim$2@charm.magnus.acs.ohio-state.edu>… > DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. > Relationships with people you love and respect depend significantly on > the former. > -M
Could you explain what you said above?
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Possessions are a good thing. For instance, it’s nice to posess food and water. If you have none, you will feel bad pretty quick. Also it’s nice to posess a place to live, without that sleeping is kind of hard in the streets as people pass you by and rain falls on your forehead. Also it’s nice to have a woman, if you have none, it’s not as fun. "Lonely God" <sul…@theTHREADkiller.hgea.org> wrote in message
news:4049d914$0$13240$39cecf19@news.twtelecom.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> DudeNEPhx1971 left his occasional zen-like state to tell us that: > >>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > >>>that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > >>>prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. > >> Frank: > >> Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? Great! > > No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. Dont live in > > misery just because you dont have possessions, power or prestige, they > > won’t bring happiness. > Still, I sure wouldn’t MIND more possessions (never watched or owned a > DVD yet) and prestige (wealth buys influence, politicians know this) and > wealth (you can be sure I’d be out spending like a crazy man hehe)! > — > LG > "It’s pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness. Poverty and wealth > have both failed." – Kin Hubbard, ‘Abe Martin’s Broadcast’
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DudeNEPhx1971 left his occasional zen-like state to tell us that: >>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>>prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. >> Frank: >> Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? Great! > No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. Dont live in > misery just because you dont have possessions, power or prestige, they > won’t bring happiness.
Still, I sure wouldn’t MIND more possessions (never watched or owned a DVD yet) and prestige (wealth buys influence, politicians know this) and wealth (you can be sure I’d be out spending like a crazy man hehe)! — LG "It’s pretty hard to tell what does bring happiness. Poverty and wealth have both failed." – Kin Hubbard, ‘Abe Martin’s Broadcast’
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Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely news:BC6EAD50.19F4%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> The Strange Case of Dr. Carlo Lombardi’s post: >> Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely >> news:BC6E9DAB.19DF%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: >>> DudeNEPhx1971’s post: >>>>> DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>>>> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>>>>> prestige, but on relationships with people you love and >>>>>> respect. >>>>> Hey did you just find out why people here live in such >>>>> misery? Great! >>>> No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. >>>> ont live in >>>> misery just because you dont have possessions, power or >>>> prestige, they wont bring happiness. >>> I’m about one third happy. >>> I have possessions but no power of prestige. Do you think that >>> if I got power and prestige I’d be fully happy? I’m sure >>> there’s a connection… >> THE POWER OF PRESTIGE. Now on sale! >> Anyway. Power&prestige generally lead to anxiety about keeping >> power and prestige, so in that sense I would say no, they don’t >> lead to happiness. > Oh That’s a shame perhaps I should just remain happy with my one > third happiness.
Maybe you can expand it like a sponge absorping water or sumtin’ I dunno’. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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lm <lmandtheb…@mailandnews.com> spewed forth most vilely news:8s3h409tqlpus2sltfh2jvrsl2bfv2e0pv@4ax.com: > On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:04:26 GMT, "Steve Spry" > <23…@unavailable.com> wrote: >>Well I am happy that I have a close relationship with my parents >>(as of late) and siblings. I tease my mom a lot, just as a way >>of getting power over her. ha ha it is fun. Sometimes I have >>nothing better to do but to call her up and bust her balls. ha >>ha ha I love my mom.
C’mon lady, I been in da joint for five years, dat gives me da right to bust your balls a little-hey! *ugh* *dead* – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Laife > I’m finding that I enjoy reading your posts. You can be pretty > funny, you know. > lm
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"lm" <lmandtheb…@mailandnews.com> wrote in message
news:8s3h409tqlpus2sltfh2jvrsl2bfv2e0pv@4ax.com… > On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:04:26 GMT, "Steve Spry" <23…@unavailable.com> > wrote: > >Well I am happy that I have a close relationship with my parents (as of > >late) and siblings. I tease my mom a lot, just as a way of getting power > >over her. ha ha it is fun. Sometimes I have nothing better to do but to > >call her up and bust her balls. ha ha ha I love my mom. > >Laife > I’m finding that I enjoy reading your posts. You can be pretty funny, > you know. > lm
Thank you. Smiles, Laife
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Sklenge <skle…@yahoo.co.uk> spewed forth most vilely news:BC6E9DAB.19DF%sklenge@yahoo.co.uk: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> DudeNEPhx1971’s post: >>> DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>>> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>>> prestige, but on relationships with people you love and >>>> respect. >>> Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? >>> Great! >> No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. >> ont live in >> misery just because you dont have possessions, power or >> prestige, they wont bring happiness. > I’m about one third happy. > I have possessions but no power of prestige. Do you think that > if I got power and prestige I’d be fully happy? I’m sure there’s > a connection…
THE POWER OF PRESTIGE. Now on sale! Anyway. Power&prestige generally lead to anxiety about keeping power and prestige, so in that sense I would say no, they don’t lead to happiness. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
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On Fri, 05 Mar 2004 02:04:26 GMT, "Steve Spry" <23…@unavailable.com> wrote: >Well I am happy that I have a close relationship with my parents (as of >late) and siblings. I tease my mom a lot, just as a way of getting power >over her. ha ha it is fun. Sometimes I have nothing better to do but to >call her up and bust her balls. ha ha ha I love my mom. >Laife
I’m finding that I enjoy reading your posts. You can be pretty funny, you know. lm
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DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
Relationships with people you love and respect depend significantly on the former. -M
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>I talk to them about my problems too. It’s good to have parents who can >listen and hear you out and discuss the problem as a team. >Laife
I talk to my mom a lot. Discuss each others day to day problems. I dont talk any personal stuff with my dad, we talk about politics/economy and weather…boring.
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> "DudeNEPhx1971" <dudenephx1…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20040304205553.20170.00000880@mb-m27.aol.com… > > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
Power over oneself is more important than all of the above, I think.
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On 05 Mar 2004 05:55:55 GMT, dudenephx1…@aol.com (DudeNEPhx1971) wrote: >>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >>> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >>> prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. >> Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? Great! > :) No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. Dont live in >misery just because you dont have possessions, power or prestige, they wont >bring happiness.
very true. cravings and grasping = suffering one think about letting go in that way and your happiness shines though, it tends to piss off those around you who are miserable. snide comments like, oh give me some of those happy pills. but then I am grasping at responses from someone else. LOL! Watch my mental breakdown as it happens. http://mspoopiepants.blogspot.com/ I’m posting…be very afraid. http://www.lolfun.com/flash_0603/funky_d.cfm Tank goodness for usenet to keep track of my major life events. "First they ignore you, then they laugh at you, then they fight you, then you win." –Mahatma Gandhi If anything I’ve said seems useful to you, I’m glad. If not, don’t worry. Just forget all about it. His Holiness the Dalai Lama
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that our differences are what makes us all alike. 
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Steve Spry wrote: > I talk to them about my problems too. It’s good to have parents who > can listen and hear you out and discuss the problem as a team.
I guess. I haven’t had 2 parents, I’ve had 2 children. My mother cries a lot. If I talked about my real problems it would make her cry. It’s better than a narcissistic abusive father, though. Call that pointless rambling.
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DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? Great!
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MCMLXVI <mar…@earthlink.net> spewed forth most vilely news:PCR1c.22001$aT1.8552@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net: > that our differences are what makes us all alike.
Ooo, nice one.
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>DudeNEPhx1971 wrote: >> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or >> prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect. > Hey did you just find out why people here live in such misery? Great!
No, from my experience I thought that statement was true. Dont live in misery just because you dont have possessions, power or prestige, they wont bring happiness.
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that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
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Well I am happy that I have a close relationship with my parents (as of late) and siblings. I tease my mom a lot, just as a way of getting power over her. ha ha it is fun. Sometimes I have nothing better to do but to call her up and bust her balls. ha ha ha I love my mom. Laife "DudeNEPhx1971" <dudenephx1…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040304205553.20170.00000880@mb-m27.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
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I talk to them about my problems too. It’s good to have parents who can listen and hear you out and discuss the problem as a team. Laife "Steve Spry" <23…@unavailable.com> wrote in message
news:KeR1c.7614$Vg4.6839@newssvr23.news.prodigy.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Well I am happy that I have a close relationship with my parents (as of > late) and siblings. I tease my mom a lot, just as a way of getting power > over her. ha ha it is fun. Sometimes I have nothing better to do but to > call her up and bust her balls. ha ha ha I love my mom. > Laife > "DudeNEPhx1971" <dudenephx1…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20040304205553.20170.00000880@mb-m27.aol.com… > > that happiness is not based on possessions, power, or > > prestige, but on relationships with people you love and respect.
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Question:
hello diane all I can say I hear you. I wish I could do something for you, hold you maybe, though I doubt I would be strong enough to hold you until you are exhausted. and … sorry, I couldnt bring myself to hurt you. but then, I am so far away. so all I can say is I hear you. Fletcher – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -i’m feeling very needy these days. Elisabeth went to the pdoc in my place today, and she told him that things aren’t going very well…that i’m mostly just working and sleeping, and that i’ve lost interest in everything. she also told him that i don’t feel valuable to anyone, which is true, and said she thinks that i need to pay more attention to them on the inside. pppfffffttttttt. i can’t hear what’s going on inside. at all. ok, a little here and there, but mostly nothing. and she didn’t tell him the most important part, that i feel this extraordinary need to talk and to be heard and some other stuff that i can’t say here. well, i can i guess, if i spoiler, so i will. um…talking about physical pa*n and need for it. some reference to bd*m and si. * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ok, i have this really intense need to fight someone…and to be hurt, but for it to be in a "safe" and consensual sort of way. kind of like if someone big and strong grabs me and won’t let me go, but allows me to fight it until i’m exhausted. but more than that even…i need the small (and medium) hurts that go along with bdsm…and the care that comes after. the body -aches- for care. the so*l yearns for it, as well. i’ve thought of hurting myself, bad enough to be hospitalized. i don’t know how to get the care i need, without screaming for it. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. — Brooke Medicine Eagle
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i’m feeling very needy these days. Elisabeth went to the pdoc in my place today, and she told him that things aren’t going very well…that i’m mostly just working and sleeping, and that i’ve lost interest in everything. she also told him that i don’t feel valuable to anyone, which is true, and said she thinks that i need to pay more attention to them on the inside. pppfffffttttttt. i can’t hear what’s going on inside. at all. ok, a little here and there, but mostly nothing. and she didn’t tell him the most important part, that i feel this extraordinary need to talk and to be heard and some other stuff that i can’t say here. well, i can i guess, if i spoiler, so i will. um…talking about physical pa*n and need for it. some reference to bd*m and si. * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ok, i have this really intense need to fight someone…and to be hurt, but for it to be in a "safe" and consensual sort of way. kind of like if someone big and strong grabs me and won’t let me go, but allows me to fight it until i’m exhausted. but more than that even…i need the small (and medium) hurts that go along with bdsm…and the care that comes after. the body -aches- for care. the so*l yearns for it, as well. i’ve thought of hurting myself, bad enough to be hospitalized. i don’t know how to get the care i need, without screaming for it. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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hi Fletcher, all I can say I hear you. I wish I could do something for you, hold you maybe, though I doubt I would be strong enough to hold you until you are exhausted.
*smile* gentle holding would be nice, too. and … sorry, I couldnt bring myself to hurt you. but then, I am so far away. so all I can say is I hear you.
thanks. we need people to hear us. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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hey there
hey back – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m feeling very needy these days. Elisabeth went to the pdoc in my place today, and she told him that things aren’t going very well…that i’m mostly just working and sleeping, and that i’ve lost interest in everything. she also told him that i don’t feel valuable to anyone, which is true, and said she thinks that i need to pay more attention to them on the inside. pppfffffttttttt. i can’t hear what’s going on inside. at all. ok, a little here and there, but mostly nothing. phaps ya could comunicate another way first, thru here, thru writin or wotever?
i guess i’m going to have to explore different ways…i guess i just figured that if i can’t hear them, there was no need. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and she didn’t tell him the most important part, that i feel this extraordinary need to talk and to be heard and some other stuff that i can’t say here. well, i can i guess, if i spoiler, so i will. um…talking about physical pa*n and need for it. some reference to bd*m and si. * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ok, i have this really intense need to fight someone…and to be hurt, but for it to be in a "safe" and consensual sort of way. kind of like if someone big and strong grabs me and won’t let me go, but allows me to fight it until i’m exhausted. but more than that even…i need the small (and medium) hurts that go along with bdsm…and the care that comes after. i can relate to a bit of this. i have that strong need to fight a lot to the point that i considerd gettin into b*xing but havnt cos im not sure its a v good idea. just that i feel a lot that i just need to realy fight somone. but its diffrent for me, cos i dont want to be hurt. is it just maybe the need for some phisical touch? n that even a touch that hurts is better than no touch at all?
i’m not sure. it’s possible. but i also think that i’m looking for (or used to) an intensity with my emotions, and i expect or need for that to be the same with touch. the other thing is that i can’t imagine the body being satisfied with gentleness…it needsneedsneeds right now. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – the body -aches- for care. the so*l yearns for it, as well. wish ya had somone near ya to give ya that. i’ve thought of hurting myself, bad enough to be hospitalized. i don’t know how to get the care i need, without screaming for it. i hope ya dont have to go that far to get the help ya need. holdin back on a rant on mental health care, cos it seems to me that they havnt got there head round the idea of preventon been better than cure, n that ppl rarly get the help they need until they hit crisis.
yeah, isn’t that the truth. thinking of ya, sorry not more help.
thanks for writing, Celeste. diane In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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hi Tabkey, and a belated welcome back! I am sori to hear that you are in the place you find yourself … think I am also stuck there … not too sure how to get out, but am trying to be ratioale about it, not that it really helps, but keep posting here and share your feelings, etc …. it helps to get it out, we all here for each other … Know that you are being thought of and that yous are very special and appreciated, Take care frend, hope to see a post from yous soon.
thank you for your kind words. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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hey there
i’m feeling very needy these days. Elisabeth went to the pdoc in my place today, and she told him that things aren’t going very well…that i’m mostly just working and sleeping, and that i’ve lost interest in everything. she also told him that i don’t feel valuable to anyone, which is true, and said she thinks that i need to pay more attention to them on the inside. pppfffffttttttt. i can’t hear what’s going on inside. at all. ok, a little here and there, but mostly nothing.
phaps ya could comunicate another way first, thru here, thru writin or wotever? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – and she didn’t tell him the most important part, that i feel this extraordinary need to talk and to be heard and some other stuff that i can’t say here. well, i can i guess, if i spoiler, so i will. um…talking about physical pa*n and need for it. some reference to bd*m and si. * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ok, i have this really intense need to fight someone…and to be hurt, but for it to be in a "safe" and consensual sort of way. kind of like if someone big and strong grabs me and won’t let me go, but allows me to fight it until i’m exhausted. but more than that even…i need the small (and medium) hurts that go along with bdsm…and the care that comes after.
i can relate to a bit of this. i have that strong need to fight a lot to the point that i considerd gettin into b*xing but havnt cos im not sure its a v good idea. just that i feel a lot that i just need to realy fight somone. but its diffrent for me, cos i dont want to be hurt. is it just maybe the need for some phisical touch? n that even a touch that hurts is better than no touch at all? the body -aches- for care. the so*l yearns for it, as well.
wish ya had somone near ya to give ya that. i’ve thought of hurting myself, bad enough to be hospitalized. i don’t know how to get the care i need, without screaming for it.
i hope ya dont have to go that far to get the help ya need. holdin back on a rant on mental health care, cos it seems to me that they havnt got there head round the idea of preventon been better than cure, n that ppl rarly get the help they need until they hit crisis. thinking of ya, sorry not more help. C. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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Dear Dianne, I am sori to hear that you are in the place you find yourself … think I am also stuck there … not too sure how to get out, but am trying to be ratioale about it, not that it really helps, but keep posting here and share your feelings, etc …. it helps to get it out, we all here for each other … Know that you are being thought of and that yous are very special and appreciated, Take care frend, hope to see a post from yous soon. Regards, Tabkey
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i’m feeling very needy these days. Elisabeth went to the pdoc in my place today, and she told him that things aren’t going very well…that i’m mostly just working and sleeping, and that i’ve lost interest in everything. she also told him that i don’t feel valuable to anyone, which is true, and said she thinks that i need to pay more attention to them on the inside. pppfffffttttttt. i can’t hear what’s going on inside. at all. ok, a little here and there, but mostly nothing. and she didn’t tell him the most important part, that i feel this extraordinary need to talk and to be heard and some other stuff that i can’t say here. well, i can i guess, if i spoiler, so i will. um…talking about physical pa*n and need for it. some reference to bd*m and si. * * ** * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * * ** ok, i have this really intense need to fight someone…and to be hurt, but for it to be in a "safe" and consensual sort of way. kind of like if someone big and strong grabs me and won’t let me go, but allows me to fight it until i’m exhausted. but more than that even…i need the small (and medium) hurts that go along with bdsm…and the care that comes after. the body -aches- for care. the so*l yearns for it, as well. i’ve thought of hurting myself, bad enough to be hospitalized. i don’t know how to get the care i need, without screaming for it. diane, of Ravensong In black, there are all colors, Where darkness, always the light, Iridescent the raven’s wing in sunlight. – Brooke Medicine Eagle
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Works for me. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Catherine Gray…..glad to see your post, although not glad for the reason why. Scroll below: I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray Hi….. I understand the feeling of loneliness well. I also spend many weekends/weeknights alone. It’s very hard, I agree. I know that, partly for me, it’s that I’ve not told anyone of my dx. I also want my friends to perceive me as a strong, independent, not needy person. I don’t want them to feel that they need to "take care of me." So, frequently when a friend asks, "Did you have a good weekend?" I’ll respond, "Oh yes, it was just fine." When really, I’ve not spoken to a soul. I know that if I make some calls and ask friends what they’re doing, they’ll include me, but,…. I want _them_ to call me. That way I’ll know that I’m truly wanted. So…..I sit here waiting for the phone to ring. As I write this, I realize how dumb this whole thing sounds. I’m going to pick up that d*mn phone and call a friend to ask how –they’re- doing. Why don’t you try it too? Nahanton
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Hi Catherine Gray…..glad to see your post, although not glad for the reason why. Scroll below: I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray Hi….. I understand the feeling of loneliness well. I also spend many
weekends/weeknights alone. It’s very hard, I agree. I know that, partly for me, it’s that I’ve not told anyone of my dx. I also want my friends to perceive me as a strong, independent, not needy person. I don’t want them to feel that they need to "take care of me." So, frequently when a friend asks, "Did you have a good weekend?" I’ll respond, "Oh yes, it was just fine." When really, I’ve not spoken to a soul. I know that if I make some calls and ask friends what they’re doing, they’ll include me, but,…. I want _them_ to call me. That way I’ll know that I’m truly wanted. So…..I sit here waiting for the phone to ring. As I write this, I realize how dumb this whole thing sounds. I’m going to pick up that d*mn phone and call a friend to ask how –they’re- doing. Why don’t you try it too? Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text –
Response:
Dear Catherine Gray – This must feel very, very difficult – I think in a similar situation I can imagine myself having feelings of having been used (however unintentionally) and discarded. Is it possible that this friend felt/feels awkward about the fact that you gave so much and did not give her the opportunity to give in return, because you were so very carefully shielding her from your own neediness? People do need to give as well as to receive, I think – at least I think most people do feel that need. Maybe I am off base entirely, but it is just a thought that occurred to me. The other possibilities, however, are virtually infinite – as you say, people get caught up in their own stuff and that takes over, for example. I am glad you wrote here, though, and hope it helps a little. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill (see Nahanton’s post below Catherine Gray’s. And, hopes to you, too, Catherine Gray. Your process sounds like my own, as does Nahanton’s. I’m going to try and take her advice. I hope you can, too.)
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi Catherine Gray…..glad to see your post, although not glad for the reason why. Scroll below: I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray Hi….. I understand the feeling of loneliness well. I also spend many weekends/weeknights alone. It’s very hard, I agree. I know that, partly for me, it’s that I’ve not told anyone of my dx. I also want my friends to perceive me as a strong, independent, not needy person. I don’t want them to feel that they need to "take care of me." So, frequently when a friend asks, "Did you have a good weekend?" I’ll respond, "Oh yes, it was just fine." When really, I’ve not spoken to a soul. I know that if I make some calls and ask friends what they’re doing, they’ll include me, but,…. I want _them_ to call me. That way I’ll know that I’m truly wanted. So…..I sit here waiting for the phone to ring. As I write this, I realize how dumb this whole thing sounds. I’m going to pick up that d*mn phone and call a friend to ask how –they’re- doing. Why don’t you try it too? Nahanton
Response:
Amen, to that….. Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Feh – Yiddish and Hebrew are second languages for New Yorkers. L’shana tova to us *all* – and l’chaim, to boot. Beauty. Happy new year. That’s it. I just said happy new year a few different ways. And "oy." But everybody knows what that means. Now, then, what is that comment about the language of your ancestors? You wouldn’t dare try and suggest that I am your senior, would you? Oy. And btw, a mensch is a very good person. Just another translation for the "youngsters" and those outside of the Yiddish Club. thanks to you, too, Nahanton. You’re a mensch yourself. trill What to say, Trill?.. Way cool?.. Then there is the language of my ancestors that I don’t know very well, but get the drift of sometimes. Oy, yourself <slapping face with hand You are too much. Thank you for your good wishes, ( which Trill will translate if anyone is interested.) You are indeed a mensch. Nahanton You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill
Response:
Happy new year. That’s it. I just said happy new year a few different ways. And "oy." But everybody knows what that means. Now, then, what is that comment about the language of your ancestors? You wouldn’t dare try and suggest that I am your senior, would you? Oy. And btw, a mensch is a very good person. Just another translation for the "youngsters" and those outside of the Yiddish Club. thanks to you, too, Nahanton. You’re a mensch yourself. trill
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – What to say, Trill?.. Way cool?.. Then there is the language of my ancestors that I don’t know very well, but get the drift of sometimes. Oy, yourself <slapping face with hand You are too much. Thank you for your good wishes, ( which Trill will translate if anyone is interested.) You are indeed a mensch. Nahanton You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill
Response:
What to say, Trill?.. Way cool?.. Then there is the language of my ancestors that I don’t know very well, but get the drift of sometimes. Oy, yourself <slapping face with hand You are too much. Thank you for your good wishes, ( which Trill will translate if anyone is interested.) You are indeed a mensch. Nahanton – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill
Response:
wanna say something profound and helpful…but i’m hurting too. *extends hand to clasp in silent sympathy* I like you. dyenths
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human
contact….times where we – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she
doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she
hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are
probably clouding my – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
Hi all, I did try phoning my friend. I left messages a fortnight ago, again last week and 2 times this week. No call. I do know that it’s nothing that we’ve done – because although we have shared some of the probs with her, we’ve also been very careful – not to download too much onto her. We’ve tried to mainly be there for her, because she had been having problems. Now everything is lots better for her. I’m not angry ……just sad – that because her time of need is over, she doesn’t realise that we still wanted to be her friend. Catherine Gray
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – wanna say something profound and helpful…but i’m hurting too. *extends hand to clasp in silent sympathy* I like you. dyenths I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
Here is something that will maybe sound extremely trite to say, but maybe it’s true that most people really do try to do their best, and that it’s just that most people’s best is constrained in various ways. In this case, maybe she is doing her best, but her best includes that she cannot notice, understand, or accept that you are still there and wanting friendship. Could it be that she is embarrassed at having been so needy in front of you? I know that some of us here (some of DC’s Realm, too, I think?) have expressed some shame at appearing needy in front of others. I am sorry for the hurt. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi all, I did try phoning my friend. I left messages a fortnight ago, again last week and 2 times this week. No call. I do know that it’s nothing that we’ve done – because although we have shared some of the probs with her, we’ve also been very careful – not to download too much onto her. We’ve tried to mainly be there for her, because she had been having problems. Now everything is lots better for her. I’m not angry ……just sad – that because her time of need is over, she doesn’t realise that we still wanted to be her friend. Catherine Gray wanna say something profound and helpful…but i’m hurting too. *extends hand to clasp in silent sympathy* I like you. dyenths I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
yeah, what she said! :) wishing you well… dyenths
Here is something that will maybe sound extremely trite to say, but maybe it’s true that most people really do try to do their best, and that it’s just that most people’s best is constrained in various ways. In this case, maybe she is doing her best, but her best includes that she cannot notice, understand, or accept that you are still there and wanting friendship. Could it be that she is embarrassed at having been so needy in front of you? I know that some of us here (some of DC’s Realm, too, I
think?) have expressed some shame at appearing needy in front of others. I am sorry for the hurt. Beauty. Hi all, I did try phoning my friend. I left messages a
fortnight ago, again last – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – week and 2 times this week. No call. I do know that it’s nothing that we’ve done – because although we have shared some of the probs with her, we’ve also been very careful – not to download too much onto her. We’ve tried to mainly be there for her, because she had been having problems. Now everything is lots better for her. I’m not angry ……just sad – that because her time of need is over, she doesn’t realise that we still wanted to be her friend. Catherine Gray wanna say something profound and helpful…but i’m hurting too. *extends hand to clasp in silent sympathy* I like you. dyenths message I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
Just an update. We telephoned our friend again yesterday morning….and this time she answered the phone. After saying hello and asking how she was…..she said that she was sorry, that she had received our messages – but had been busy and didn’t have the chance to phone back. THEN…before we could say anything else….she said "Is it OK if I phone you back in a couple of minutes?" We said…"Yeah sure" But she never phoned back. That was around 36 hours ago. The sadness continues…but we at least tried. I understand that it is better for us to let go….and not expect her to phone. If she does, it would be lovely. But I don’t think at this point – that we should try to phone her again. Much sadness and a great sense of loss. Catherine Gray
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – yeah, what she said! :) wishing you well… dyenths Here is something that will maybe sound extremely trite to say, but maybe it’s true that most people really do try to do their best, and that it’s just that most people’s best is constrained in various ways. In this case, maybe she is doing her best, but her best includes that she cannot notice, understand, or accept that you are still there and wanting friendship. Could it be that she is embarrassed at having been so needy in front of you? I know that some of us here (some of DC’s Realm, too, I think?) have expressed some shame at appearing needy in front of others. I am sorry for the hurt. Beauty. Hi all, I did try phoning my friend. I left messages a fortnight ago, again last week and 2 times this week. No call. I do know that it’s nothing that we’ve done – because although we have shared some of the probs with her, we’ve also been very careful – not to download too much onto her. We’ve tried to mainly be there for her, because she had been having problems. Now everything is lots better for her. I’m not angry ……just sad – that because her time of need is over, she doesn’t realise that we still wanted to be her friend. Catherine Gray wanna say something profound and helpful…but i’m hurting too. *extends hand to clasp in silent sympathy* I like you. dyenths message I have / had a friend in real. I’m not sure where the ‘had’ part is coming from. But then again, I am sortof sure. My friend…i consider her to be a beautiful person. She has a family….a husband and 2 teenage kids. She also knows and understands about my DX. Why I feel sad. Because I have intentionally shielded her from seeing us as being needy. Intentionally shelved stuff from her, which we’ve been going through. Oh, she knows a lot of it – but there are sooooo many times when we are alone on weekends / week nights, with no human contact….times where we wish that we could have some company. Times of despair for feeling as though we are always going to be alone. But, I don’t call her too often. I avoid it. For the past 6 months, she has called us during her times of need. We love being able to be there for her. We sit and listen, and bounce back things to her, without giving advise. She had been going through a lot of personal issues. We even helped her move house. Now that she has moved, she is doing a lot better And whilst I am really ( truly am ) happy that this has happened….and she wouldn’t realise that it feels this way to us – but she doesn’t need us now. The reason I am saying this, is because a few times over the last month when we have telephoned her, we’ve left messages – but she hasn’t gotten back to us. I’m sure it’s not intentional….it’s just that she is doing so good now, that she forgets that we could actually still do with a friend. It makes me sad – even though I am happy for her. What I hate about it….is that it makes me question how she really feels about me. There are a lot of other things making me sad, that are probably clouding my perceptions. Loneliness is the hardest thing I find. Catherine Gray
Response:
Feh – Yiddish and Hebrew are second languages for New Yorkers. L’shana tova to us *all* – and l’chaim, to boot. Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Happy new year. That’s it. I just said happy new year a few different ways. And "oy." But everybody knows what that means. Now, then, what is that comment about the language of your ancestors? You wouldn’t dare try and suggest that I am your senior, would you? Oy. And btw, a mensch is a very good person. Just another translation for the "youngsters" and those outside of the Yiddish Club. thanks to you, too, Nahanton. You’re a mensch yourself. trill What to say, Trill?.. Way cool?.. Then there is the language of my ancestors that I don’t know very well, but get the drift of sometimes. Oy, yourself <slapping face with hand You are too much. Thank you for your good wishes, ( which Trill will translate if anyone is interested.) You are indeed a mensch. Nahanton You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill
Response:
Heh. Hebrew & Xian all in one word (we goyim got that one from you guys along w/a whole bunch of other stuff!!!!). Beauty. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Amen, to that….. Nahanton Feh – Yiddish and Hebrew are second languages for New Yorkers. L’shana tova to us *all* – and l’chaim, to boot. Beauty. Happy new year. That’s it. I just said happy new year a few different ways. And "oy." But everybody knows what that means. Now, then, what is that comment about the language of your ancestors? You wouldn’t dare try and suggest that I am your senior, would you? Oy. And btw, a mensch is a very good person. Just another translation for the "youngsters" and those outside of the Yiddish Club. thanks to you, too, Nahanton. You’re a mensch yourself. trill What to say, Trill?.. Way cool?.. Then there is the language of my ancestors that I don’t know very well, but get the drift of sometimes. Oy, yourself <slapping face with hand You are too much. Thank you for your good wishes, ( which Trill will translate if anyone is interested.) You are indeed a mensch. Nahanton You go, Nahanton. Way. I don’t know what I’m saying. I’m a baby boomer trying to use the lingo of the generation that was my students. Oy. Now that’s more like it. L’shana tova, Nahanton. Good Yontiff. Happy New Year. Peace and happiness to you. May your friendships blossom, deepen in color, and spread joy through and around them. trill
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Hi Catherine Gray……scroll below, please – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Just an update. We telephoned our friend again yesterday morning….and this time she answered the phone. After saying hello and asking how she was…..she said that she was sorry, that she had received our messages – but had been busy and didn’t have the chance to phone back. THEN…before we could say anything else….she said "Is it OK if I phone you back in a couple of minutes?" We said…"Yeah sure" But she never phoned back. That was around 36 hours ago. The sadness continues…but we at least tried. I understand that it is better for us to let go….and not expect her to phone. If she does, it would be lovely. But I don’t think at this point – that we should try to phone her again. Much sadness and a great sense of loss. Catherine Gray
Hi…..If that happened to me I would feel very hurt and sad, so I do understand what you’re feeling. It probably is best for you to let go. It seems as if you’ve done everything you *can* do. This might not *feel* right for you, but I would write her a letter telling her that you’re feelings were hurt, and that you don’t understand "why?" That if she doesn’t feel comfortable speaking on the phone, would she write you a note of explanation. This is just _my_ take on it. It does seem as if this is the end of the relationship, unfortunately. If that’s okay with you, just leave it be. If not write to her….. So sorry, Nahanton
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hugs if k warm fuzzy blankets to snuggle way down in. /console gentley Kristi – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – lilbit needy. sawd T n crycry bout when i was lil. n someone was nice to me once n i crycry cuz it mak me feel so good, but then, when i was lil, all i felt was horribly guilty cuz i not desrve help, n makin ppl feel sorry for me, n just fakin. hurt. wanted it to be ok that someone help me. wanted to be diffrent so i could deserve kindness. jt
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lilbit needy. sawd T n crycry bout when i was lil. n someone was nice to me once n i crycry cuz it mak me feel so good, but then, when i was lil, all i felt was horribly guilty cuz i not desrve help, n makin ppl feel sorry for me, n just fakin. hurt. wanted it to be ok that someone help me. wanted to be diffrent so i could deserve kindness. jt — "It is astonishing, really, how many thoroughly mature, well-adjusted grown-ups harbor a teddy bear — which is perhaps why they are thoroughly mature and well-adjusted." — Joseph Lempa
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i feel sooooo desperatly needy i realize i am a depressive and i havent even been taking enough of my medication and i will rest if i get off here[all internet] and that things will be easier for others who have other interests i cant draw others are artist others exercise and do manic things too i am just depressed and write thats it so i gotta go but this is my last chance to speak and i want my chance does anybody know a support group on long island? i wont be able to read after 11 tonite an answer cause after that no more internet access for a while and rest but i feel sooooo sad i know i gotta go to sleep and let others function for me but i just wondered maybe a support group ix a week except i am usually to scared to speak to people inperson i hate talking out loud with words i can on;y write by bye love caroline/me
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – i feel sooooo desperatly needy i realize i am a depressive and i havent even been taking enough of my medication and i will rest if i get off here[all internet] and that things will be easier for others who have other interests i cant draw others are artist others exercise and do manic things too i am just depressed and write thats it so i gotta go but this is my last chance to speak and i want my chance does anybody know a support group on long island? i wont be able to read after 11 tonite an answer cause after that no more internet access for a while and rest but i feel sooooo sad i know i gotta go to sleep and let others function for me but i just wondered maybe a support group ix a week except i am usually to scared to speak to people inperson i hate talking out loud with words i can on;y write by bye love caroline/me
Hello caroline/me, I wonder if contacting the Sidran Foundation might help. If you email them, place "Attn: Resource Specialist" in the title and then in the body of the message, place that you are looking for info on support groups in Long Island and leave your real address, they will mail you a full list of everything they have for that area. I wish you peace during your rest. Sierra of TN 2328 West Joppa Road, Suite 15, Lutherville, MD 21093 (410) 825-8888 phone - (410) 337-0747 fax Web page: <http://www.access.digex.net/~sidran — Pay attention to ~both~ your strengths and your weaknesses. Give yourself/ves plenty of credit for the things you do well and attempt to make small changes in the things you wish to improve.
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"Lobsterboy" <lobsterboy_2…@yahoo.es> wrote in message
news:d58cc07c.0312051126.52cd68ba@posting.google.com… > "Darkfalz" <darkf…@xis.com.au> wrote > > I couldn’t do it. Plastic surgery may be my only chance to ever get a > > girlfriend, but I can’t do it. I can’t contribute to the shallowness of > > women that has caused me and so many men so much loneliness and misery, even > > if it might mean my personal happiness. > Really heroic but…I guess the war is already lost, so why not try to > win the battle?.
Complying to their bullshit will only encourage it further. I don’t believe we were put on this world just to please ourselves, that’s a woman’s mentality. I want to do my part for future generations.
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"KC Carter" <newmediapr…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:463ac52.0312050936.7368ac72@posting.google.com… > tommorrowpeo…@aol.com (Tommorrow People) wrote in message
<news:20031204135803.01860.00000183@mb-m18.aol.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I have receding hair and I wear glasses. This combination doesn’t help me at > > all. When I was 21, I didn’t have either and I did get some interest from women > > but I was too shy and awkard to deal with it. I am much more confident now but > > I don’t look that good anymore. > > I am seriously thinking about doing something about my hair. A transplant of > > some kind. I reckon weave is the best bet and there are plenty of companies > > that provide this service. And also there is eye lazer treatment as well. > > I think both would cost around
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