Lonely Loneliness

Comparing levels of abuse

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hi, White Rabbit! Abusers think they have the right to abuse.  It’s that simple.  It’s not about your partner losing control.  It’s about your partner GAINING control.  You don’t deserve to be abused physically, and you don’t deserve to be abused emotionally.  Not at all.  It sounds like your spirit is pretty well crumbling.  This isn’t okay!  You have a beautiful spirit, with a purpose in life!   It’s hard to believe that, when someone that you love is telling you that you’re worthless, but it’s true!  You were not meant to be abused. If you believe in creation: Child of God, you were created to create the good.  Abuse, in the form of victim or abuser, is NOT good; and it’s not what your life should be about.  And, if you believe in evolution, then recognize that a colony or culture that accepts violence will self-destruct. The emotional abuse you’re suffering has me very concerned.  When you said that you’d rather take a bullet than continue suffering…it pushed a big warning button for me.  Many victims of domestic violence end up committing suicide.  It’s easier to die than to live with the hopelessness.  While you may not be there yet, it sounds like you could very well be heading down that path!  I am curious, what state do you live in?  Is it safe for you to e-mail me?  I could help you with the laws in your state on domestic violence, and I could help you figure out where to turn for help.  I have a friend who is also a male victim of domestic violence.  He is out of the relationship.  Is it safe for you to exchange e-mail with him?  He’s great!  And, check out alt.support.domestic-violence; it’s a fairly new group.  There are men and women who post there; gender is not an issue.  I’ve posted a few articles on the Spectrum of Violence, and recently, safety planning. Please read these articles!  They could save your life.  See, right now, your partner may be *only* hitting you.  But what if your partner decides that more control is necessary.  The hitting that, for now doesn’t hurt, could eventually turn into a stab wound or a bullet wound.

I can safely send and get e-mail. I’m not sure about your comments about possible future safety. My reaction is to say it’s not a significant issue because of this and that. But I’ve seen enough that I should know better than to believe in the ‘it can’t happen to me attitude.’ I really don’t think there is any real risk of her getting dangerously violent. And I’m not a complete amateur at threat assessment. But you are right that it is foolish to ignore the possibility. I may be thinking like a cop who believes in good neighborhoods. I live in metro Atlanta. If you know of someone who can help me determine what my practical options are it is probably about time I start checking them out. This recent episode wasn’t particularly bad. But the black eye kind of brought things to a head. She has had to admit, at least for now, that she does get violent and not remember it. This might be an opening to start getting help. But if she manages to brush it aside without making any real commitment then I don’t know that there is much chance left for us to work things out. Plus we are facing some problems that could really push her over the edge. DFACS (department of family and children’s services) is getting involved over some concerns over how we educate and supervise our kids. And Linda’s response is an irrational panic. If they pressure us to make some chances such as putting them in public schools I don’t know how she will react. I can safely send and get e-mail. I’m not sure about your comments about possible future safety. My reaction is to say it’s not a significant issue because of this and that. But I’ve seen enough that I should know better than to believe in the ‘it can’t happen to me attitude.’ I really don’t think there is any real risk of her getting dangerously violent. And I’m not a complete amateur at threat assessment. But you are right that it is foolish to ignore the possibility. I may be thinking like a cop who believes in good neighborhoods. I live in metro Atlanta. If you know of someone who can help me determine what my practical options are it is probably about time I start checking them out. This recent episode wasn’t particularly bad. But the black eye kind of brought things to a head. She has had to admit, at least for now, that she does get violent and not remember it. This might be an opening to start getting help. But if she manages to brush it aside without making any real commitment then I don’t know that there is much chance left for us to work things out. Plus we are facing some problems that could really push her over the edge. DFACS (department of family and children’s services) is getting involved over some concerns over how we educate and supervise our kids. And Linda’s response is an irrational panic. If they pressure us to make some chances such as putting them in public schools I don’t know how she will react. DFACS originally got involved because of concerns over the housekeeping. These were valid. But this is the most incompetent bunch of bunglers I’ve ever met. They failed to follow up on real issues. Ignored our (and my) requests for help. Lied to us about resources available. They missed the real issues and instead lied to us and the judge to keep out the testimony of their own psychologist who said there is no evidence of abuse or neglect so they could claim to be doing something. (The push comes from neighbors who want us out of the area now that we are no longer able to maintain the house are yard to upper middle class standards.) If these people were competent they could be of some help. But every field worker I’ve met has lied to me. When we found an agency able to help with some respite care and help doing and organizing the housework they told them to not help us. And lied about doing so. I knew and respected a number of social workers in Denver and surrounding counties. But these fools scare me. Plus if I support their suggestions Linda is likely to freak. If I could trust the case worker I could talk to them about how to handle it. But I don’t. I don’t think Linda will get violent. At least not if I am careful in dealing with her. But she is likely to get impossible to live with. And to create a situation where I am caught between her and the caseworker. With both making unworkable demands as regards the kids. (They have some health problems that would make public school difficult if not disastrous. But Linda is likely to be too resentful and panicky to make any reasonable compromises.) At that point, if she is back to denying that she has a problem I have no idea what I could constructively do. And for me to do anything but support her against them is a very scary thing to consider. (Keep in mind that she is not abusing the kids. If she were that would be a whole different set of choices, and easier choices to make. Or at least more obvious.) Sorry for carrying on. But I am really pissed about Gwinnett DFACS. I think a competent social worker could be a lot of help. And the case workers I’ve know have generally been pretty good. At least as far as the system allowed. But I don’t expect this group of lying incompetents to do anything but make things worse. I’ve asked around and the opinion seems pretty universal that this particular department is a walking disaster area. For now I’m just sending this e-mail. I’ll sleep on it before deciding whether I really am comfortable posting this to the group. But do feel free to email me.

Response:

Hi, White Rabbit! Abusers think they have the right to abuse.  It’s that simple.  It’s not about your partner losing control.  It’s about your partner GAINING control.  You don’t deserve to be abused physically, and you don’t deserve to be abused emotionally.  Not at all.  It sounds like your spirit is pretty well crumbling.  This isn’t okay!  You have a beautiful spirit, with a purpose in life!   It’s hard to believe that, when someone that you love is telling you that you’re worthless, but it’s true!  You were not meant to be abused. If you believe in creation: Child of God, you were created to create the good.  Abuse, in the form of victim or abuser, is NOT good; and it’s not what your life should be about.  And, if you believe in evolution, then recognize that a colony or culture that accepts violence will self-destruct. The emotional abuse you’re suffering has me very concerned.  When you said that you’d rather take a bullet than continue suffering…it pushed a big warning button for me.  Many victims of domestic violence end up committing suicide.  It’s easier to die than to live with the hopelessness.  While you may not be there yet, it sounds like you could very well be heading down that path!  I am curious, what state do you live in?  Is it safe for you to e-mail me?  I could help you with the laws in your state on domestic violence, and I could help you figure out where to turn for help.  I have a friend who is also a male victim of domestic violence.  He is out of the relationship.  Is it safe for you to exchange e-mail with him?  He’s great!  And, check out alt.support.domestic-violence; it’s a fairly new group.  There are men and women who post there; gender is not an issue.  I’ve posted a few articles on the Spectrum of Violence, and recently, safety planning. Please read these articles!  They could save your life.  See, right now, your partner may be *only* hitting you.  But what if your partner decides that more control is necessary.  The hitting that, for now doesn’t hurt, could eventually turn into a stab wound or a bullet wound. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something that several of you have said to me is that it doesn’t make sense to compare that the abuse I’ve been through is minor next to what many here have been through. I thought of that more after reading more of the posts by those abused as childern. I was thinking that I can understand, to some degree, physical abuse, but how could anyone tell a child that they are worthless, that no one does or can or ever will love them? Not just in a fit of anger but constantly? Childern are precious and fascinating and inherently special. They are also frustrating, expensive, inconvienent and all that. So I can see losing your temper or resenting them. But to tell a child that no one can ever love you? I got to thinking of some of the things with my wife. As I’ve said, the bruises are, in and of themselves trivial. What really hurts is the abuse of my trust and concern. The lies, the broken promises, the rejection. She took my dreams, claimed to share them and then smashed them. When I asked her opinions, what she thought or wanted she deliberately lied, then ridiculed and attacked my when I beleived her and tried to work with what I thought she wanted. When I’ve said that I would rather she shoot me than treat me like that it was no exageration. I was not trying to be melodramatic. Broken bones hurt less and heal quicker than broken spirits. I still say that what many of you have gone through is much worse than what I have. But I can see that you can’t tell the seriousness of the abuse by looking at the bruises. That perhaps what I’ve been through may actually be as significant as it often feels. (Not that I expect anyone in real life to take it that way.) There’s more to say, but I don’t know where to go with this. It just hurts more than I know how to say. And I’ve never had a chance to talk to anyone about it. No one has ever listened. I don’t buy this macho crap, so it’s not that I refused to admit I was hurting. I guess I just don’t fit the predefined boxes. I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

– Banging your head against a wall uses 150 calories an hour.

Response:

I am not sure if this book is available in USA but it is worth while seeking it out. The book is called "Manhood" written by Phil Bidulph. This would be the best book ever writen about the plight of men and why many of us never really grew up. Definately worth a read for men and women alike. Alos by the same Author is "Raising Boys" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Something that several of you have said to me is that it doesn’t make sense to compare that the abuse I’ve been through is minor next to what many here have been through. I thought of that more after reading more of the posts by those abused as childern. I was thinking that I can understand, to some degree, physical abuse, but how could anyone tell a child that they are worthless, that no one does or can or ever will love them? Not just in a fit of anger but constantly? Childern are precious and fascinating and inherently special. They are also frustrating, expensive, inconvienent and all that. So I can see losing your temper or resenting them. But to tell a child that no one can ever love you? I got to thinking of some of the things with my wife. As I’ve said, the bruises are, in and of themselves trivial. What really hurts is the abuse of my trust and concern. The lies, the broken promises, the rejection. She took my dreams, claimed to share them and then smashed them. When I asked her opinions, what she thought or wanted she deliberately lied, then ridiculed and attacked my when I beleived her and tried to work with what I thought she wanted. When I’ve said that I would rather she shoot me than treat me like that it was no exageration. I was not trying to be melodramatic. Broken bones hurt less and heal quicker than broken spirits. I still say that what many of you have gone through is much worse than what I have. But I can see that you can’t tell the seriousness of the abuse by looking at the bruises. That perhaps what I’ve been through may actually be as significant as it often feels. (Not that I expect anyone in real life to take it that way.) There’s more to say, but I don’t know where to go with this. It just hurts more than I know how to say. And I’ve never had a chance to talk to anyone about it. No one has ever listened. I don’t buy this macho crap, so it’s not that I refused to admit I was hurting. I guess I just don’t fit the predefined boxes. I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

An Aussie in Nashville or Perth  Depending on what month

Response:

[...] I got to thinking of some of the things with my wife. As I’ve said, the bruises are, in and of themselves trivial. What really hurts is the abuse of my trust and concern. The lies, the broken promises, the rejection. She took my dreams, claimed to share them and then smashed them. When I asked her opinions, what she thought or wanted she deliberately lied, then ridiculed and attacked my when I beleived her and tried to work with what I thought she wanted.

I would guess that most of the promises were made while she was still in the remorse stage.  That’s a pretty common pattern.  The abuser is good for a while because of guilt, while the memories are fresh and it’s impossible to deny the problem.  At this point, he/she will do anything, say anything.  But then the rationalizations and the denial start. When I’ve said that I would rather she shoot me than treat me like that it was no exageration. I was not trying to be melodramatic. Broken bones hurt less and heal quicker than broken spirits.

I agree.  I’d have to say that the physical abuse was the least of my problems.  The worst things to me are the things that make it harder to trust, that make me stay on guard all of the time. I still say that what many of you have gone through is much worse than what I have. But I can see that you can’t tell the seriousness of the abuse by looking at the bruises. That perhaps what I’ve been through may actually be as significant as it often feels. (Not that I expect anyone in real life to take it that way.)

I agree with you; the wounds inside are the ones that matter the most. And those are the hardest to see. People in real life just want to deal with the simple problems.  They don’t want to think about abuse unless it fits into one of their nice little molds and they can make it into a TV movie with a happy ending. After all, if they actually had to face it, then they would have to realize that it could actually happen to them, or to someone that they know.  Or even worse, they would have to consider the fact that they might have a problem. There’s more to say, but I don’t know where to go with this. It just hurts more than I know how to say. And I’ve never had a chance to talk to anyone about it. No one has ever listened. I don’t buy this macho crap, so it’s not that I refused to admit I was hurting.

It’s good to get this out.  A little validation is so much more valuable than most people are willing to admit. I guess I just don’t fit the predefined boxes. I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

It’s a sad comment on this world that sometimes, it takes a visible bruise before people will take your problems seriously.  People are so wrapped up in their stereotypes and prejudices, that they can’t see the wounds unless they are open and bleeding in front of their eyes. It’s even sadder that a lot of the people who are supposed to be helping with the problem are so wrapped up in their way of dealing with things, that they can’t see anything that doesn’t fit into their model of the world. — ht — And if life is just a highway — then the soul is just a car, And objects in the rearview mirror may appear closer than they are.

Response:

In most cases it doesn’t make a difference regarding the type of abuse or its’ extent, it’s the effect on the victim which is most important.  The outcomes are typically negative involving, loss of self-esteem,  fear of relationships, distrust, drug/alcohol abuse, repeating the cycle and so on.  Take heart and work on who you are and how you want to see yourself in the future.  There are no miracle cures.  It takes time.

Response:

Nope, you are right… absolutely.  It is not the bruise.. a slap or blow happens quickly and is over.  It is the fear, the anticipation of when the next one comes… of the words that kill the spirit which accompany the physical act.  Physical pain is not the the demolition of the spirit..the soul.  You take care of yourself and remember… you know the truth no matter what "they" choose to believe.  You are right… broken bones hurt less and heal better than the spirit.  I am sorry you had to experience this.  :-( – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

Response:

Hi White Rabbit, First let me say that even those of us who have been hurt well lets just say badly and as children, we still have doubts about whether it was abuse. Realising that abuse happened or is happening is a very big step. Just talk.  You need to get all the emotions out, (if you want to) the more you talk and think about what you have said the more you will understand. You should feel more confident about the situation, and more confident of yourself and your place in your relationship. A couple of years ago, I was very abusive both physically and verbally towards my boyfriend.  I had hit him on a number of occasions, not very hard, but it is not the force of it that bothered him so much, but the fact that I was actually doing it.  The last time I hit him, he walked out, I went after him and eventually found him crying.  He was actually scared of me.  I took a long hard look at myself then, realised I was being the bitch which is the part of me that took all the pain of my childhood.  She is still with me but I can at least I have been keeping that side of me under control. I have a very violent temper, I was obviously concerned when I had my baby, but apart from a few times when I was so near to hitting him I cherish him. And now I am the more patient of the two of us with my son. This kind of thing can be sorted out, but your wife has to make the decision to stop.  She is taking the easy way out at the moment, it is easier to be violent and let loose all the anger inside.  Than it is to say no, I will not hurt him, I will calm down, I am not angry at him. Am I making sense? And as I have said before comparing abuse is something we are all bound to do at some time, but if we all did it none of us would get anywhere in our recovery.  Your pain is your pain not mine or anyone elses in this group. I would just say that for me the physical abuse still haunts me, I can actually remember some of the pain.  It is true that the verbal mental etc. abuse stays with us and affects our lives in so many ways, but for me so does the physical abuse, I guess it just depends on the individual. I also don’t believe that anyone should resent their child, but then I never thought I could have a child so mine is a blessing. Sera. You take care of yourself, and seek the help that YOU need, there are people who can help, just don’t give up.  You are the most important factor in this, you need to keep yourself safe. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something that several of you have said to me is that it doesn’t make sense to compare that the abuse I’ve been through is minor next to what many here have been through. I thought of that more after reading more of the posts by those abused as childern. I was thinking that I can understand, to some degree, physical abuse, but how could anyone tell a child that they are worthless, that no one does or can or ever will love them? Not just in a fit of anger but constantly? Childern are precious and fascinating and inherently special. They are also frustrating, expensive, inconvienent and all that. So I can see losing your temper or resenting them. But to tell a child that no one can ever love you? I got to thinking of some of the things with my wife. As I’ve said, the bruises are, in and of themselves trivial. What really hurts is the abuse of my trust and concern. The lies, the broken promises, the rejection. She took my dreams, claimed to share them and then smashed them. When I asked her opinions, what she thought or wanted she deliberately lied, then ridiculed and attacked my when I beleived her and tried to work with what I thought she wanted. When I’ve said that I would rather she shoot me than treat me like that it was no exageration. I was not trying to be melodramatic. Broken bones hurt less and heal quicker than broken spirits. I still say that what many of you have gone through is much worse than what I have. But I can see that you can’t tell the seriousness of the abuse by looking at the bruises. That perhaps what I’ve been through may actually be as significant as it often feels. (Not that I expect anyone in real life to take it that way.) There’s more to say, but I don’t know where to go with this. It just hurts more than I know how to say. And I’ve never had a chance to talk to anyone about it. No one has ever listened. I don’t buy this macho crap, so it’s not that I refused to admit I was hurting. I guess I just don’t fit the predefined boxes. I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

Response:

I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

Now is a good time to go to the mirror. Look at that person until you get past your resistance, embarrassment, or distraction. Ask that person what you are willing to endure. It is as simple as a decision to go or not go. If you stay, you must take care of yourself in the face of assaults against your esteem or person. If you go, you must take care of yourself in the face of loneliness.  I posit that the true answer for you is in you. Find it. Act upon it.                 NMWFB

Response:

Something that several of you have said to me is that it doesn’t make sense to compare that the abuse I’ve been through is minor next to what many here have been through. I thought of that more after reading more of the posts by those abused as childern. I was thinking that I can understand, to some degree, physical abuse, but how could anyone tell a child that they are worthless, that no one does or can or ever will love them? Not just in a fit of anger but constantly? Childern are precious and fascinating and inherently special. They are also frustrating, expensive, inconvienent and all that. So I can see losing your temper or resenting them. But to tell a child that no one can ever love you? I got to thinking of some of the things with my wife. As I’ve said, the bruises are, in and of themselves trivial. What really hurts is the abuse of my trust and concern. The lies, the broken promises, the rejection. She took my dreams, claimed to share them and then smashed them. When I asked her opinions, what she thought or wanted she deliberately lied, then ridiculed and attacked my when I beleived her and tried to work with what I thought she wanted. When I’ve said that I would rather she shoot me than treat me like that it was no exageration. I was not trying to be melodramatic. Broken bones hurt less and heal quicker than broken spirits. I still say that what many of you have gone through is much worse than what I have. But I can see that you can’t tell the seriousness of the abuse by looking at the bruises. That perhaps what I’ve been through may actually be as significant as it often feels. (Not that I expect anyone in real life to take it that way.) There’s more to say, but I don’t know where to go with this. It just hurts more than I know how to say. And I’ve never had a chance to talk to anyone about it. No one has ever listened. I don’t buy this macho crap, so it’s not that I refused to admit I was hurting. I guess I just don’t fit the predefined boxes. I’ve tryed talking to pastors and gotten, among other BS, advise that I need to "accept my role as head of the house." I’ve talked to counselors who wanted to just brush it off as depression. No one wanted to admit that she might actually be doing what I said. That this was more than just a ‘communication problem.’ Now that she left a vey visable bruise maybe someone will take it seriously. But damn it, the bruises are nothing. That is not what hurts.

Response:

Filed under: Loneliness Depression

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