Lonely Loneliness

Intelligent people more prone to depression?

Question:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometimes I wonder if I’m aiming for some mythical balance that’s not really attainable for me. I mean, I definitely have to work on the swinging to extremes–and now that they’ve diagnosed me bipolar II that puts things in some perspective–but I also have to set realistic goals. From all your writings on food stuff, it seems like you’ve been dealing with that issue a lot too. I do think that it’s possible to learn to achieve greater balance. People like us will never be middle-of-the-road on the whole, and I’m not sure that’s a bad thing.  But the pendulum doesn’t have to swing so far; we do not have to run away with things just because we see the direction.  We can learn to make healthier choices, and they really are choices, because there’s a nontrivial part of this is that’s behavior patterns and doing what we’ve always done.  But, like everything else, it’s a long, slow road.

I think I’ve been making pretty decent progress, actually.  When I think back five years ago–even two years ago–I have *really* changed.  I feel pretty proud of that. It has been slow, but not as slow as I feared. It’s only been in the last couple of years that I’ve been able to begin to view the world as essentially neutral rather than essentially hostile.  My son, who is perhaps the best-balanced child ever (and I have no clue where he got that) views the world as essentially welcoming.  

Well, I venture to say his wonderful, amazing, smart, caring, thoughtful mother had *something* to do with his outlook. We do have our own personalities, but if you didn’t have an influence then…then something! <wag finger Thanks for talking to me in here Nina.  It’s been helpful.  And nice. love minx

Response:

.  It’s like saying you’re superior because you happened to end up with red hair (well…hm… maybe so…); it’s genetic accident. hee, my mom would agree about the red hair! Oh I agree with that too :)

biased little lot!

Response:

.  It’s like saying you’re superior because you happened to end up with red hair (well…hm… maybe so…); it’s genetic accident. hee, my mom would agree about the red hair!

Oh I agree with that too :)

Response:

Yeah, me too, kind of. My stress and anxiety, over time, can trigger some bad depression though.  I do better when I have structure, and busy-ness, but not too too much.  My eternal quest for balance. Sigh! I royall suck at it. Yup, exactly.  The right level of busyness helps a lot, but you tip it over into too much, or if it goes on for too long, then it sends me right into depression.  And I do it to myself to a large extent, because when I feel good, I take on too much.  Way too much.  And I have to balance that by doing nothing for a while, I think.  Far too much of a pendulum swing, and not healthy at all.  

Sometimes I wonder if I’m aiming for some mythical balance that’s not really attainable for me. I mean, I definitely have to work on the swinging to extremes–and now that they’ve diagnosed me bipolar II that puts things in some perspective–but I also have to set realistic goals. From all your writings on food stuff, it seems like you’ve been dealing with that issue a lot too. I don’t know.  I’m trying to edge very carefully, because I’m not at all trying to insult anyone who’s happy (actually, the happiest person I ever knew, or maybe the person who seemed most content with himself and his life, was not in the least bit dumb), and I’m also not trying to put a premium on intelligence, particularly because it’s one of those random things.  It’s like saying you’re superior because you happened to end up with red hair (well…hm… maybe so…); it’s genetic accident.

hee, my mom would agree about the red hair! I know what you mean about the edging. I have so much to say about "intelligence," but I’m totally worn down and upset, so I’ll just nestle in this post and enjoy your remarks I have to say, though, that the people I really had in mind when I was writing the original comment are both not very bright and exceptionally self-absorbed.  And in some sense, they seem really happy, but I have to say that I don’t envy that, because I don’t envy them the other traits.  I’ve actually gotten to the point in my life where, 98% of the time, I really don’t care what most of the world thinks of me.  And, wow, it’s an enormous relief.  :-)  But I’m not, I think, self-absorbed.  At least not to an unhealthy extent.

From having met you (albeit awhile ago, and briefly), and getting to know you through your writings here, you seem a very healthy, caring, but confident person.  And I understand exactly, now, the type of person you mean. I don’t know; I guess that my whole point, which I’m still having a hard time making clearly, is that a certain amount of obliviousness may be an asset, not that I think it’s something that you can choose. Example:  before I had a child, I would read news stories or novels in which something terrible happened to a child, and I’d think, that’s terrible, but I’d move on.  Now, to a really large extent, I can’t bear to read things like this, because I see everything in terms of my son.  The pre-parenthood obliviousness was actually a far more soothing state of the world.  But I can’t, obviously, choose to go back to it.  

I understand this. Somebody said something about Adam and Eve and the loss of innocence in another of the responses, and I’m drifting into wondering about that; whether there isn’t some tie-in between depression and that, the recognition that the world is not a safe place.  That came to me at a very young age, and I’ve had depression problems of one sort or another practically forever.

I related to this a lot, actually. I started talking when I was 9 months old and reading when I was 3. My sister died when I was 16 months old, and my parents were ripped apart.  I wonder how much I absorbed.  I distinctly remember reading about snipers and rape in the local newspaper when I was very, very young, and I rapidly developed morbid terrors about murderers and death.  The building and neighborhood I grew up in had some rough spots–violence, prostitutes, drugs.  My first memories involve violence.  So, yeah, the world is unsafe. It makes me sad as hell. minx

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Hi Minx. You wrote inter alia: I *love* that phrase "inter alia" — it’s so pretty!– but what does it mean? Well, minx, among other things, it means among other things.

thank you, among other things!

Response:

That’s interesting.  Of course, we have to take into account the American obsession with therapy and introspection.  Not all cultures may be so self-analytical. True… but depression is prevalent in most developed countries, and that’s where there’s been the greatest amount of "time for thinking" increase.

Oh!  Ok. I really don’t want to sell this as any kind of theory that I’m much buying, but sometimes I think that there’s an element of truth to it. When I’m busy, I’m often more stressed and more anxious… but generally less depressed.

Yeah, me too, kind of. My stress and anxiety, over time, can trigger some bad depression though.  I do better when I have structure, and busy-ness, but not too too much.  My eternal quest for balance. Sigh! I royall suck at it. And that’s my second point, and it relates to what CF said to begin with about the ability to analyze.  You don’t have to be intelligent to analyze things, but one thing that I sure have noticed is that depression at least appears to be more common in people who think about things Think about things, as in ruminating? Or more like, being thoughtful? Ummmm.  I dunno.  :-)  My first impulse was to say, ruminating.  But the more I think about it, the more that I’m not sure that there’s a huge distinction.  I think thoughtfulness can lead to rumination and obsessive thoughts.  But certainly you can skip the thoughtfulness entirely and move right on to obsessive gunk.

Yikes, that’s intense!  But I know what you mean. I can get very obsessive and stuck in a loop.  My association with the word "thoughtful" is some gentle soul who walks in the woods–ala Thoreau–and drifts peacefully from thought bubble to thought bubble. Which means, not me  I’d like to be like that sometimes, though! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – (and I agree that it seems really desirable to be one of those people who floats through life.  There’s a lot of truth to the idea that ignorance is bliss.).   Personally, I feel uncertain assuming this. Few people are willing to stand up and say, "Yes, I’m ignorant, and you’re right, I’m happy as a clam!"  So mostly we don’t know if this cliche is really true! And it’s kind of sketchy judging people by our perception of them.  Not that our perceptions can’t be spot on. But still. I’m uncertain about assuming that, too, and you never know what’s going on with someone else, not really.  But I have to say, anecdotal evidence only, that most of the people who I’ve ever known who seemed just *happy* were pretty clueless.  Actually, that’s really the wrong word.  At least seemed to be oblivious to what other people thought about them and oblivious to what I see as the complexities and difficulties of the world.  And mostly, they certainly were not what I’d call thinkers.

Well, now that you’ve clarified the kind of person you’re talking about, I can see what you mean. Are people like that really "dumb," though?  I think it’s just me.  I feel bad putting down happy people.  I mean, to be frank, I have a lot of fierce anger and lonliness in me when I see what looks like The Happy People walking by, but I envy them too.  How many times have I said to myself, "Gee, what I wouldn’t give not to care what other people think of me?" Anyway, I have nothing insightful to say about this.  I’m just mumbling at this point. And I’d be more than willing to swap a pile of brains (ick) for a shot of happiness. I’d like to keep my brains and enjoy what happiness I can generate. Well, yeah.  But it sure depends on when you ask.

Truer words hath never been yadda yadda! xo! minx

Response:

x-no-archive: yes Hi Minx. You wrote inter alia: I *love* that phrase "inter alia" — it’s so pretty!– but what does it mean?

Well, minx, among other things, it means among other things. Darren.

Response:

I don’t know the studies on this, but I’ve been in treatment for about 4 years, including group for awhile, and anecdotally I’ve met plenty people of average or less-than-average intelligence who are seriously depressed or bipolar. I’ve never seen any real studies on this.  I’d be idly curious to see something like this, if they exist.  Certainly observation… here, and in the rest of life… suggests that depression is not at all the exclusive province of the more intelligent.  

I just thought this minute, though: Maybe the ones who write memoirs about it and famous thinkers who "come out" about it, give the impression that the scale is weighted toward the more analytical and articulate? Just a thought. Personally–and this is not to dis you at all, I’ve said this before whenever the subject comes up–but I loathe this type of argument. I think this idea is just false elevation to make us feel better about our unfair lot. Ok, on one hand I completely agree with this, and pretty much everything else that you say here, and I think that the "more sensitive" stuff is bullshit, too, and I think, well, if depressives are creative, how much more creative would they be if they didn’t find it so damn hard to get up in the morning?

Just personally speaking–speaking only for myself, no one else!–I’ve had a lot of energy and (I’ll say it?) talent sucked up by this illness.   And my brother, who was brilliant in physics and computer science is dead, so whatever he could have given to himself and the world died with him. But on the other hand, two things.  One is something that I read somewhere ages ago about the increase in depression in modern society. There are a lot of ways that you can read that, but one is that, back a century or so ago, the average person essentially didn’t have time to be depressed (don’t jump down my throat, anyone; I am NOT suggesting that depression is something that’s manufactured out of an excess of time-saving devices).  Of course, there are many, many, other things that one could say about society then and now, but it’s certainly true that there is a hell of a lot more time for introspection now.

That’s interesting.  Of course, we have to take into account the American obsession with therapy and introspection.  Not all cultures may be so self-analytical. And that’s my second point, and it relates to what CF said to begin with about the ability to analyze.  You don’t have to be intelligent to analyze things, but one thing that I sure have noticed is that depression at least appears to be more common in people who think about things

Think about things, as in ruminating? Or more like, being thoughtful? (and I agree that it seems really desirable to be one of those people who floats through life.  There’s a lot of truth to the idea that ignorance is bliss.).  

Personally, I feel uncertain assuming this. Few people are willing to stand up and say, "Yes, I’m ignorant, and you’re right, I’m happy as a clam!"  So mostly we don’t know if this cliche is really true! And it’s kind of sketchy judging people by our perception of them.  Not that our perceptions can’t be spot on. But still. I don’t know if you can really take the next step and say, intelligent people are more likely to analyze things and thus are more likely to be depressed.

And there’s situational components, chemical components…behavior is one aspect of many. There are lots of different sorts of intelligence, too. I don’t know; just thinking aloud really.

me too And I’d be more than willing to swap a pile of brains (ick) for a shot of happiness.

I’d like to keep my brains and enjoy what happiness I can generate. minx

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. only an intelligent person could have the insight to see this See what?  I don’t get it.  what are you guys talking about? <:-) -Charles -"…overqualified for a life of leisure."

lol!Charles…thanx for making me laff!:-)am dumb with depression. btw always liked your sig so here’s a chance to say so. jewel

Response:

By no means was I trying to create false elevation…it was merely an observation I have noticed…in my little world. And I’m not saying we’re "special" or trying to segregate us, it just seems to me the people who suffer the most are the people who comprehend the most.

I think this theory dates back to stories of Adam and Eve, The Snake and The Apple, and the Garden of Eden.  If Adam and Eve hadn’t eaten The Apple and become enlightened, then they could have stayed in the la la land of the Garden of Eden. Sincerely Stewart —

Response:

Well, my thought on depression is that loneliness is a prime cause, and increasing the intelligence is a solitary activity. Many people for whom education hasn’t been a priority seem to have a better knack at natural and fufilling relationships with other people – but not all of them. Anyone can be depressed afterall, just take a dose of rotten circumstances and then watch out. I guess what I’m saying is that depression is something all people have experiences with in one form or another. However, the conditions of solitary learning lend themselves to a more habitual depression then people who spend more time socializing. Communication, having people who will let you tell your story, and having people to joke with, is a common antidote to depression… those are circumstances you should try and find no matter what your other predispositions I think.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – screamed: I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory? I don’t know the studies on this, but I’ve been in treatment for about 4 years, including group for awhile, and anecdotally I’ve met plenty people of average or less-than-average intelligence who are seriously depressed or bipolar. Personally–and this is not to dis you at all, I’ve said this before whenever the subject comes up–but I loathe this type of argument. I think this idea is just false elevation to make us feel better about our unfair lot.  Some depressives/mentally ill are brilliant, some are average, some are dumb, others fill in the spaces in between. For bipolars, manias *can* bring on creativity and great thinking, but not always, and often there’s a lot of pain and destruction that go along with it. Some people make the argument that depressives etc. are more sensitive, kind of following the intelligence theory.  I say, that *may* apply with those who have more or less successfully *managed* their illness (some like to say recovered, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. the best some can hope for is excellent management–which believe me, is a great hope–that’s the track I ride!) But as to intelligence, I think it’s propaganda.  In a weird way, I think it segregates us further–even if it reinforces how "special" we are, isn’t that just the other side of "different" and "not normal."   The disability civil rights movement has some interesting things to say about this.  I was just writing about it for work, and I came across a book called _No Pity_. It talked about these issues. Well, sorry to go on and on.  I get het up and long winded on this topic!  I love being special, I just don’t believe it flys here. minx By no means was I trying to create false elevation…it was merely an observation I have noticed…in my little world. And I’m not saying we’re "special" or trying to segregate us, it just seems to me the people who suffer the most are the people who comprehend the most.

Oh, I didn’t mean you, personally, were asserting the things I said.   I’m sorry if I came off that way. What I meant was, the theory you proposed sometimes means (to others) the things I discussed. It’s interesting to contemplate whether someone’s suffering is linked to more advanced comprehension. I’m not sure, though my gut says "no."   Over the years on ASD, I’ve seen some enormous suffering without much insight.  Of course, I’ve also seen tremendous acts of courage–incredible suffering matched by tenderness and intelligence. People’s character and responses to illness and suffering: how are they developed? Where do they come from? It seems very complex to me. I also wonder, what about other types of victims? So many people suffer in the world–of disease, war, crime, and more–and it’s almost impossible to generalize that they have a deeper sensitivity to the suffering of others or a heightened understanding of the world.  Some people’s suffering even makes them meaner or hurt other people. I hope their numbers are smaller than the people who try work through their suffering. Who don’t just endure, but prevail. Anyway, these are just my thoughts.  I think about this a lot! minx

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory? I don’t know the studies on this, but I’ve been in treatment for about 4 years, including group for awhile, and anecdotally I’ve met plenty people of average or less-than-average intelligence who are seriously depressed or bipolar. Personally–and this is not to dis you at all, I’ve said this before whenever the subject comes up–but I loathe this type of argument. I think this idea is just false elevation to make us feel better about our unfair lot.  Some depressives/mentally ill are brilliant, some are average, some are dumb, others fill in the spaces in between. For bipolars, manias *can* bring on creativity and great thinking, but not always, and often there’s a lot of pain and destruction that go along with it. Some people make the argument that depressives etc. are more sensitive, kind of following the intelligence theory.  I say, that *may* apply with those who have more or less successfully *managed* their illness (some like to say recovered, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. the best some can hope for is excellent management–which believe me, is a great hope–that’s the track I ride!) But as to intelligence, I think it’s propaganda.  In a weird way, I think it segregates us further–even if it reinforces how "special" we are, isn’t that just the other side of "different" and "not normal."   The disability civil rights movement has some interesting things to say about this.  I was just writing about it for work, and I came across a book called _No Pity_. It talked about these issues. Well, sorry to go on and on.  I get het up and long winded on this topic!  I love being special, I just don’t believe it flys here. minx

By no means was I trying to create false elevation…it was merely an observation I have noticed…in my little world. And I’m not saying we’re "special" or trying to segregate us, it just seems to me the people who suffer the most are the people who comprehend the most.

Response:

I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory?

I don’t know the studies on this, but I’ve been in treatment for about 4 years, including group for awhile, and anecdotally I’ve met plenty people of average or less-than-average intelligence who are seriously depressed or bipolar. Personally–and this is not to dis you at all, I’ve said this before whenever the subject comes up–but I loathe this type of argument. I think this idea is just false elevation to make us feel better about our unfair lot.  Some depressives/mentally ill are brilliant, some are average, some are dumb, others fill in the spaces in between. For bipolars, manias *can* bring on creativity and great thinking, but not always, and often there’s a lot of pain and destruction that go along with it. Some people make the argument that depressives etc. are more sensitive, kind of following the intelligence theory.  I say, that *may* apply with those who have more or less successfully *managed* their illness (some like to say recovered, but that doesn’t apply to everyone. the best some can hope for is excellent management–which believe me, is a great hope–that’s the track I ride!) But as to intelligence, I think it’s propaganda.  In a weird way, I think it segregates us further–even if it reinforces how "special" we are, isn’t that just the other side of "different" and "not normal."   The disability civil rights movement has some interesting things to say about this.  I was just writing about it for work, and I came across a book called _No Pity_. It talked about these issues. Well, sorry to go on and on.  I get het up and long winded on this topic!  I love being special, I just don’t believe it flys here. minx

Response:

I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. only an intelligent person could have the insight to see this

and isin’t that depressing .

Response:

I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze.

only an intelligent person could have the insight to see this

Response:

i always think hte same thing. But it’s so un-pc, i am afraid to say it out loud. I have never seen any statistics to support or dismiss this. I *do* wonder sometimes if it’s just my perception. Maybe when you’re happy and floating, you just appear less intelligent? could be.hard to tell though. janneke – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory?

Response:

I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory?

yes , there has been research done on this topic and you’re right

Response:

I was thinking today, I wonder if depression is more prominent in intelligent people. You know, people that think alot, or have the ability to analyze. I know quite a few dumb people, who just kind of float through life, and they don’t ever seem to be depressed. Kind of like just "la la la…everything’s wonderful", but the intelligent people I know seem to have more of a struggle with depression. Sometimes I look at those dumb people and think, that must be nice, in their world. Has anyone ever read anything that collaborates my rainy day theory?

Response:

Filed under: Loneliness Depression

Related Posts

• A quick hi!
• ICQ
• Power
• No hope; No harm and No false alarm
• SweetPest
• who wants me to lie in front of a train?
• The Risk-AIDS Hypothesis; Critique part II, final. (long)
• Stupid Guy Seeking Advice (Long)!
• totally alone-new discussion
• Fallout (was: re: my mother....)