solo = lonely & bored?
Question:
Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo. Heck, they won’t even ski alone. Like Alanis asked, "Are you petrified of silence?" Dave Mann | "It is impossible, or not easy, to do | noble acts without the proper equipment."
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: didn’t even see the posting originally), but perhaps he/she simply wanted : to warn people before they set out alone. Usually, I find myself feeling : lonely and out of place on the first night of a solo trip, but by the : second night it’s great. For me, there is no substitute for getting out It lasts 2 days for me then I get into the groove and have a good time. : If you’ve never gone out alone, I suggest trying it for a two to three-day : trip, and only after you have some experience hiking and camping in that : area. Three days will give you time to adjust to being alone, and the : previous experience will help guard against discouraging problems. Of : course, solo travelers should also leave an approximate itinerary and : contact information with at least two responsible people, so they can call : out the dogs if you don’t show up when you’re supposed to. Oh, and expect : to have at least a day’s transition time when you return to the : "civilized" world – the displacement effect works in both directions : (something I think Colin Fletcher comments on). Good advice. : As far as vandalism and such go, I doubt that solo travelers are the ones : doing most of it. The evidence I’ve seen of abused campsites suggests : groups, not individuals. Left alone, a potential vandal is surrounded by Also agreed. Ron Miller Tool User
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david Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. By choice david in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo. Heck, they david won’t even ski alone. Like Alanis asked, "Are you petrified david of silence?" aaw, you make me miss living in Durango. I used to drive between there and L.A. when I had to — just me and my pickup, through the Navajo Nation, the 40 and then CA. I miss that solitude. For me, solo != lonely & bored. What fond memories … Terry
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Oh, Gawd, no. People need solitude. Some of them become mass murderers if they don’t. For instance, yesterday, I had to review some important Web work, really serious stuff, and I had this other co-worker with me. I had to sit there (taking up both of our time) and really think of all the implications of this serious stuff (to the word, not something I could do alone on one hand [I knew I had to email other outside experts, which I did later ] but at the same time I had to think about details. That takes time. It’s similar to sleep (another solo state). It is well known that the average American doesn’t get enough sleep either. Sleep, hey, that’s an r.b. topic we haven’t covered much (not the gear or stuff), but sleep itself (maybe the dreaming aspect, etc.). You can’t think about stuff all at once. That is what relaxation is about. You have to get away from other human voices (that’s a specialized processing area of the brain), from straight lines, perfect Euclidean shapes and forms (you can look at crystals), look at textures, hear things completely non-artificial. If you are so fearful that you need to be with people all the time, that’s like being a Japanese tourist or some of the characters in Huxley’s Brave New World: such products of the urban world as to be completely cut off from the non-artificial world.
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Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo.
Well now, I usually turn mine off at least ten minutes before I get to the trailhead for my solo jaunts.
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Oh, Gawd, no. People need solitude. Some of them become mass murderers if they don’t.
<snip sleep (another solo state). It is well known that the average American doesn’t get enough sleep either. Sleep, hey, that’s an r.b. topic we haven’t covered much (not the gear or stuff), but sleep itself (maybe the dreaming aspect, etc.).
Hmm. Dangerous territory here! The Jungian dream analyses will all get dumped on us….<g Many (probably all) cultures have strong beliefs about what happens when one dreams…"the dreamwalker" of some native american indians, for example. The brain seems to need the REM sleep and dreaming to sort everything out. More than one important solution to one of life’s problems has been arrived at in this mode. And then there’s daydreaming… <snip You have to get away from other human voices (that’s a specialized processing area of the brain), from straight lines, perfect Euclidean shapes and forms (you can look at crystals), look at textures, hear things completely non-artificial.
Couldn’t agree with you more. The sounds, smells, solitude all contribute to very different dreams than when stuck in the confines of a big stinkin’ city… If you are so fearful that you need to be with people all the time, that’s like being a Japanese tourist or some of the characters in Huxley’s Brave New World: such products of the urban world as to be completely cut off from the non-artificial world.
"I need my MTV" ?
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Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo.
Hey… I ski alone, I hike alone, but when I’m in the car alone, I listen to the radio (well…. tapes..) Why??? Its the only time I can listen to *my* music without my wife or kids saying "Turn that crap down!" -Pete — Pete Hickey | | University of Ottawa | | …. for industry!" Ottawa,Ont. Canada K1N 6N5| (613) 562-5800×1008 |
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Another one of those post/emails…. sleep (another solo state).
Hmm. Dangerous territory here! The Jungian dream analyses will all get dumped on us….<g Many (probably all) cultures have strong beliefs about what happens when one dreams…"the dreamwalker" of some native american indians, for example. The brain seems to need the REM sleep and dreaming to sort everything out. More than one important solution to one of life’s problems has been arrived at in this mode. And then there’s daydreaming…
Oh, I can handle the Jungians (which the Skinnerian in me personally regards as so much BS). Draming is hard enough to study, but we need to concentrate enoughon sleep. You have to get away from other human voices (that’s specialized Couldn’t agree with you more.
Glad you agree. "I need my MTV" ?
"Ski Vail."
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#Another one of those post/emails…. # #sleep (another solo state). #
#Hmm. Dangerous territory here! The Jungian dream analyses will all get #dumped on us….<g #Many (probably all) cultures have strong beliefs about what happens when #one dreams…"the dreamwalker" of some native american indians, for #example. The brain seems to need the REM sleep and dreaming to sort #everything out. More than one important solution to one of life’s #problems has been arrived at in this mode. #And then there’s daydreaming… # #Oh, I can handle the Jungians (which the Skinnerian in me personally regards #as so much BS). Draming is hard enough to study, but we need to #concentrate enoughon sleep. Consciously executed controls like concentration seem to be bypassed by the sub(&un)conscious, unless it’s programmed into the psyche by some means (practise yoga or join some dream-therapy cult or monastery or get brainwashed/reprogrammed? <g) Naaaah, I’d much rather let thinDs be and wait for the mysteries of organic chemistry to be revealed to me. # #You have to get away from other human voices (that’s specialized # #Couldn’t agree with you more. # #Glad you agree. ah but what if sometimes these "other humans" end up sharing a dream or initiating/completing it? open-door policy. No conscious controls. No secrets. Pretty good for soul-to-soul (what’s that bird called soul anyway?) communication? …and since this is rec.backcountry, it’s prolly worth pointing out (the obvious?) that the inner space seems to find itself happier when there is more of the natural outer-space…almost as though you and the mountains,valleys,rivers, lakes,deserts finally found a chance to commune and figure each other out? <g Best wishes for a lot of fun dreaming in the backcountry. 
# #"I need my MTV" ? # #"Ski Vail." — — http://www.pacifier.com/~trucking
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Usually, I find myself feeling lonely and out of place on the first night of a solo trip…
I find a bit of loneliness while planning, packing, and perhaps getting to the trailhead; then I don’t mind at all, I enjoy my freedom. My take on it is: This is a social/tribal reflex. Human animals being adaptable generalists by nature, we survive and thrive better communally than solo, and it’s bred into us, both genetically and culturally. (However, we are not as "far gone" as herd animals, partly because of our highly developed brains.) As we start out to do anything alone, we have a nagging primal concern, even a fear, that since we are alone, we must be doing something unusually dangerous. (Similar to what most of us feel as we hike into twilight, until it gets really dark.) So many times now I’ve had my doubts when planning an outing and I can’t find a companion, or I choose NOT to find a companion. Those doubts always evaporate as soon as I’m actually into the adventure. And I can always bring a radio (ham or AM/FM) if I think I might want some company. (It’s fun playing with the primal feelings… Like turning off a news broadcast to go to sleep all alone on a high, remote mountaintop.)
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: aaw, you make me miss living in Durango. I used to drive between : there and L.A. when I had to — just me and my pickup, through the : Navajo Nation, the 40 and then CA. I miss that solitude. For me, : solo != lonely & bored. What fond memories … it’s an individual thing…sort of like zazen…focused attention on the eternal now… let your attention drift too far at 75 mph and you are road kill…but the desert highway doesn’t demand…it only constrains. People who don’t want to accept the ever-present eternity of the desert roadway have their own diversions. What was the line from ‘LeMans’ (Steve McQueen) "Driving is life…everything else is waiting." Focused activity. Wherever you find it. It doesn’t take other people. here. now. huh? …oops, i missed it… Scot — "Rabbit’s clever," said Pooh thoughtfully…. "Yes," said Piglet, "Rabbit has Brain."….. "I suppose," said Pooh, "that that’s why he never understands anything."
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Eric Langmuir’s "Mountaincraft and Leadership", which is The Bible as far as UK M&L goes has a section on hillwalking that lists all the reasons why solo is a bad idea, and goes on to tell you that it’s well worth ignoring them all! Can’t remember the text word for word, but amongst other things it suggests that for many solitude, even if only occaisional, is a basic human need for many, and that a solo trip can be the most rewarding (note *can* be, not *will* be). I like a solo outing once in a while. If there’s nobody there but me and the mountains then I can sort myself out down to base level really well. Don’t have to do it often, but it’s a great cleanser when I need it. Best day trip ever was a solo winter climb up an unknown gully up in NW Scotland. Gorgeous day, topped out onto virgin snow and sunshine having got very scared hanging over shadowy chockstones below. It felt *sooooo* good, and it was just me versus the mountain. Usually I prefer company, but every now and then a solo trip is a real refresher. Pete. — Peter Clinch Dundee University & Teaching Hospitals Tel 44 1382 660111 ext. 3637 Medical Physics, Ninewells Hospital Fax 44 1382 640177 Dundee DD1 9SY Scotland UK
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I am not opposed to a little music. However, working at the fire…
I personally love music. But not while I’m in the backcountry. I want to hear and see and touch and taste and smell the land, the plants, the rocks and all the smelly little varmints. New Mexico, it ain’t New and it ain’t Mexico Also known as: "The Land of Entrapment" Capital City: Santa Fake
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(david mann) writes: Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. (Best possible Robert DeNiro TaxiDriver voice): Are you talking to me? By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo. Heck, they won’t even ski alone. Like Alanis asked, "Are you petrified of silence?" I like the way Huxley described isolation in Brave New World.
I am not opposed to a little music. However, working at the fire station, I get all my fill of music while I’m trying to concentrate on something else. Even before I started work there, I appreciated silence. Now I appreciate it even more. One of my favorite things is being in a cave, with the light off, and nobody around. It is an experience like no other. Birken T. Vogt – KE6DLT
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(david mann) writes: Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo.
Hmmm. When I’m piloting a steel box down a strip of pavement, I want the radio (or tape deck) on. I guess all that time I’ve enoyed alone on the trail (no, I don’t take a radio) I was really lonely and bored. Thanks for setting me straight, David. – Will Webster
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The three words, "solo", "lonely" and "bored" have no inherent relationship to each another at all. I solo because I like it. Not having someone else along means I see and hear a lot of stuff that other people just dream about. Like being bugled at 50 yards by a bull elk as I put my tent up in the darkening dusk. Even when I’m travelling in the front country (e.g., overseas), I prefer to travel alone. In Chiapas I once met a kid in a bus station and ended up getting invited to stay in his home in a remote mountain village and it was one of the neatest experiences I’ve ever had. Had I been travelling with someone, I would probably never have spoken to him, and while he might have invited one person, he might not have invited two. Plus, if I had been travelling with my girlfriend, I might have declined out of safety concerns. So solo is great. I don’t need the attention of a loved one or a companion every minute of my life. Some of the loneliest people on earth live in the most crowded cities, in single apartment buildings containing thousands of people per building. I like what Ed Abbey said about liking one’s own company best of all. Perhaps most people, like the tourist in "Desert Solitaire", can’t believe that one can exactly treasure one’s own company the most. But I do. I understand Ed’s sentiment exactly. Like Thoreau, I like solace. I don’t own a TV or VCR (in my spare time I read, play the piano, chop wood, bike, hike, camp, do volunteer work, etc.), listen to radio, and I won’t even play my stereo at home if it’s quiet in my little valley. I prefer the sounds of the scrubjays, woodpeckers, hummingbirds, owls, coyotes, etc. and the wind to any almost noises humans can make…most of the time. But I’m plenty social when I want to be. And anyone who’s bored has no one to blame but themselves. Bored people tend to be people who think that someone else has the responsibility for providing the entertainment/education/companionship/etc. in life. No one has an excuse to be bored except perhaps prison inmates and invalids. Even kids have no excuse for being bored most of the time. Most kids are bored because they’ve been taught that mommy or daddy have a moral obligation to provide entertainment 24 hours a day. And mom and dad have been brainwashed to think it’s child abuse NOT to. My parents did a good job at finding the balance between true nurturing and supervision and making us learn how to do things for ourselves. Actually, my dad was a wizard at all sorts of things, both nature skills and mechanical stuff, and I do wish I’d paid more attention. New Mexico, it ain’t New and it ain’t Mexico Also known as: "The Land of Entrapment" Capital City: Santa Fake
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(david mann) writes: Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on.
(Best possible Robert DeNiro TaxiDriver voice): Are you talking to me? By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo. Heck, they won’t even ski alone. Like Alanis asked, "Are you petrified of silence?"
I like the way Huxley described isolation in Brave New World.
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(Jon Christian Rost) writes: Don’t get between me and my tapedeck when I am driving down the New Jersey Turnpike (usually singing along to Simon & Garfunkel’s "America" ).
Great song. Or am I just schizoid?
Yes. Just because you get called paranoid doesn’t mean that some evil isn’t following you.
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(Alan Silverstein) writes: My take on it is: This is a social/tribal reflex.
Let’s use a different word: isolation. It’s been used by polar explorers and certain cavers to study how it affects humans. The very first Twilight Zone episode shown was about Earl Holiman in a uniform in a town with no one else. Turned out to be an experiment in isolation for space flight. While this was fiction, it was not far off the mark in many ways (like R. Byrd’s Alone). Our brains starts to manufacture a reality when it leaves the bounds of gravity, of light and dark, and people. What the brain does isn’t well understood. We do know that it is completely capable of halluncinations just to keep the brain stimulated. It’s at that level that psychological research stops at being "cruel and inhumane." But people continue to subject themselves to this.
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It takes me about 5 days to feel lonely. Unfortunately, I seldom get that many days at once….. I do feel more like being at home with my husband and kids if the weather’s lousier than I’d thought it would be for too long. Too long being a variable amount of time, depending on if the scenery or exercise is great and how long it’s been since I ate something I thought was good. Or drank something that stayed warm to the bottom of the cup. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Hey, folks I can’t comment on the mental state of the poster to whom you refer (and didn’t even see the posting originally), but perhaps he/she simply wanted to warn people before they set out alone. Usually, I find myself feeling lonely and out of place on the first night of a solo trip, but by the second night it’s great. For me, there is no substitute for getting out of town, away from everyone, and traveling at my own pace. The experience of solo backpacking (or bicycle touring, which I also do) is completely different from the experience with a group. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. If you’ve never gone out alone, I suggest trying it for a two to three-day trip, and only after you have some experience hiking and camping in that area. Three days will give you time to adjust to being alone, and the previous experience will help guard against discouraging problems. Of course, solo travelers should also leave an approximate itinerary and contact information with at least two responsible people, so they can call out the dogs if you don’t show up when you’re supposed to. Oh, and expect to have at least a day’s transition time when you return to the "civilized" world – the displacement effect works in both directions (something I think Colin Fletcher comments on). As far as vandalism and such go, I doubt that solo travelers are the ones doing most of it. The evidence I’ve seen of abused campsites suggests groups, not individuals. Left alone, a potential vandal is surrounded by nothing but the trees, which almost seem to watch you (solo travelers probably know what I’m talking about). Idiots in groups will tend to cheer each other on in their assinine pursuits. –Alan Alan Dove N3IMU http://hs1304silver1.cpmc.columbia.edu/Alan_Dove/Alan.html
– "If I die of curiosity, who will entertain you with naive questions?" I only answer my mail on an average of once every two months. Be patient. http://www.visi.com/~cyli/
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Some people can drive 8 hours with no radio on. By choice in fact. Others can’t. The latter won’t solo. Heck, they won’t even ski alone. Like Alanis asked, "Are you petrified of silence?"
Silence? You haven’t ridden in my car. Don’t get between me and my tapedeck when I am driving down the New Jersey Turnpike (usually singing along to Simon & Garfunkel’s "America" ). But I cannot conceive of wanting a Walkman while hiking. It’s not so much silence, but the background noise: wind, streams, storms(!), birds versus traffic. Or am I just schizoid? Chris
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The following (a reply in the Predicament thread) appeared on my newsreader today; it struck me as terribly sad, and a bit chilling: [the author's header & name are deleted - I'm not commenting on him personally.] I did my first major solo trip after finishing college. I was lonely and bored most of the time. Now I do many solo trips, but am still generally lonely and bored. Trips with appropriate companions are more fun than solo trips. The most memorable experiences are generally from when you screw up, and then are totally miserable or think you are going to die. Do not search for such experiences. Solo trips carry an element of risk for which there is little gain. <<< Why would someone repeatedly engage in recreation that makes them feel "lonely and bored" & that presents them with risk and "little gain"? Have you ever encountered anyone on the trail (or had them camp *very* near you) who seemed L&B? Ever wondered if some acts of backcountry vandalism or sabotage might have originated in L&Bdom? I have… As for the second sentiment: while it’s true that you’d vividly remember "screwing up" to the point of becoming "totally miserable" or thinking "you are going to die"(!), surely these occasions are extremely rare and there are happier ways to break the tedium :- Anybody involved in S&R have comments on this? From my own experience: I do longish, sometimes rugged (based on newsgroup post standards) backpacks fairly often, usually alone, as I haven’t found trips-with-companions "more fun". Backpacking has always been to me a nice mixture of adventure and relaxation, and not particularly perilous; nevertheless, I can see why some folks would not enjoy it, or dislike soloing if they don’t feel comfortable being alone. Laughingly rating a trip Worse Ever, groaning about discomforts (heavy loads/bad weather/crappy equipment/dopey judgement-calls), and rehashing hair-raising moments is Backpacker Tradition; the attitude in this morning"s letter (and some previous posts, often on the "Solo" theme) seems to border on pathology - to me. Thoughts, anybody? jr
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Hey, folks I can’t comment on the mental state of the poster to whom you refer (and didn’t even see the posting originally), but perhaps he/she simply wanted to warn people before they set out alone. Usually, I find myself feeling lonely and out of place on the first night of a solo trip, but by the second night it’s great. For me, there is no substitute for getting out of town, away from everyone, and traveling at my own pace. The experience of solo backpacking (or bicycle touring, which I also do) is completely different from the experience with a group. Not necessarily better or worse, but different. If you’ve never gone out alone, I suggest trying it for a two to three-day trip, and only after you have some experience hiking and camping in that area. Three days will give you time to adjust to being alone, and the previous experience will help guard against discouraging problems. Of course, solo travelers should also leave an approximate itinerary and contact information with at least two responsible people, so they can call out the dogs if you don’t show up when you’re supposed to. Oh, and expect to have at least a day’s transition time when you return to the "civilized" world – the displacement effect works in both directions (something I think Colin Fletcher comments on). As far as vandalism and such go, I doubt that solo travelers are the ones doing most of it. The evidence I’ve seen of abused campsites suggests groups, not individuals. Left alone, a potential vandal is surrounded by nothing but the trees, which almost seem to watch you (solo travelers probably know what I’m talking about). Idiots in groups will tend to cheer each other on in their assinine pursuits. –Alan Alan Dove N3IMU http://hs1304silver1.cpmc.columbia.edu/Alan_Dove/Alan.html
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Filed under: Loneliness Lonely
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