Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
Question:
<snip I think, and just a personal observation, that the issue that you might face is on letting go.
Bingo Why would you want to be with somebody that doesn’t want to be with you?
Because I’m a fool who likes to keep telling himself that things can somehow workout, the mounds of evidence to the contrary be damned. Are you afraid that you have lost your soul mate?
Not exactly, but there’s long, nightmarish story behind my close brush with my soulmate. Do you feel a lower self worth because of it?
Is the ocean damp? 
Frankly, your ex decided to leave because of her, not because of you.
Well, I would argue over the large size of my role in things given some of the details of our break-up, but I’m not missing your point here. Would you really want to get back together with somebody that could possibly do that again?
Intellectually, no. But I’ve been known to do some pretty damned foolish things when thinking with my heart (or other body parts). <snip Not wanting revenge is fine . . . perhaps if you looked a little more closely at your previous thoughts you would see that you have had thoughts of revenge, even if it is hoping she gets a flat tire or something.
Loads of revenge ideas came to mind. Was ready to send out a few meg of our sex photos of each other to all her friends and family using HER e-mail address (she never changed her password, so I wouldn’t have even needed to ‘hack’ anything). And quite a few other nasty acts. But as I said in another post a few weeks back, when I got ready to send the pictures out I got physicaly sick at the thought, and never did any of it. So yes I’ve had fleeting fantasies of getting back at her and/or embarrassing her in front of the new person she replaced me with in her life, but in the end that’s not what I want. I just (stupidly) want her back. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I too wanted to make things work. Heck, I still think that the problems in my marriage, and her problems in our marriage, were solvable within the marriage. I looked at my role in the breakdown, took sole responsibility for a (very short) while, thoguth about the why’s and the hows and the what’s. I guess I finally realized that it didn’t really say anything about me that the marriage broke down, although that is one of the huge stigma’s of divorce (can almost imagine George Carlin – "Shhh, he’s D I VO R C E D!") Many times, I think, the desire to try and fix somethign is because we think we failed. I am a perfectionist, and I would (and do on other things) sit there and think, "Well damnit, if I was involved how could it fail. I can do anything." But you know, and I have to forcefully remind myself of this from time to time, I am human. I tried. I learned a ton of lessons. It is sad that the marriage ended, I feel a sense of loss on that, I would never want to put it back together because the person I married is gone. She liked to laud it over me that "I Left YOU!" I think that gave her some sense of control, of betterment. I don’t think it did, but I think she felt that way. I wish I had profound words for you. It seems to me that what you need to do is have a funeral for the marriage. It is over, It needs to be laid to rest. There will always be some great memories, and that is good . . . it is what makes you alive. I would guess that your friends who are telling you that there should be no sense of loss and that you should be angry are probably people who have never been divorced, never lost somebody through death, or are stuck in those processes themselves. Cherish being alive, say your goodbyes, and move on.
Thanks very much – I’ll have to digest those last to paragraphs for a bit. I appreciate your reply. — ~JR Invest in tissues and vodka, since I’m using enough of both to drive stock prices up
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Well, I am no shrink. but I think no, you cannot get over the pain without passing through anger, or hate. Unless you are a person that never gets mad or angry or hateful no matter what horrible things happen to you, and forgives everything. Is there ANYTHING that has ever made you angry or hateful for more than a few minutes or hours before, in your whole life? I think hurt / sadness and anger / hate seem to share some relationship. but I can’t say what. All I know is, sooner or later, you probably WILL feel / be angry or even hateful. I know that when my folks divorced, I was hurt, scared and confused for a long time. the anger and hate came much later. anger is not even the right word for me. hate it more like it. but you are you. I am incredibly sorry all of this happen to you. I am assuming that SHE caused most of it or all of it. And you didnt want any of this. And I realize it’s more than one or two things that you are going though. There are so many things you must be feeling and hurting over. And probably in the future (days, weeks, months or years) from now, there will be many things you will be angry over. Again, unless you are some sort of forgiving person who can forgive any devastating thing that happened to you. sorry again for your pain.
Ryan, you’re actually quite a thoughfull and helpfull guy when you’re not yelling. robre
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is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost
I do not want to hate my husband- But the hurt is so bad if we ever work this out will I be able to forgive? FOrget? I do notknow what I did wrong,where I went wrong? He said its not me its him, I am a good person, a nice person, a lovingand giving person, he was my best friend in the world.. there is nothing I would not do for him,so what is going on in his mind? It replays over and over again in my head. THis hurts so bad Sue
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Well, I am no shrink. but I think no, you cannot get over the pain without passing through anger, or hate. Unless you are a person that never gets mad or angry or hateful no matter what horrible things happen to you, and forgives everything. Is there ANYTHING that has ever made you angry or hateful for more than a few minutes or hours before, in your whole life?
The ironic part about this is that I’ve always had something of a temper problem. I don’t get in fights, and I *** NEVER *** hit/slapped/whatever my wife, but I’m known to be somewhat mercurial. I think hurt / sadness and anger / hate seem to share some relationship. but I can’t say what. All I know is, sooner or later, you probably WILL feel / be angry or even hateful. I know that when my folks divorced, I was hurt, scared and confused for a long time. the anger and hate came much later. anger is not even the right word for me. hate it more like it. but you are you. I am incredibly sorry all of this happen to you. I am assuming that SHE caused most of it or all of it.
Well, no. Truth be told, while I don’t hold her blameless by a long shot, I bear more than ‘my share’ of the responsibility for things. I know this sounds suspect, but in all honesty, I was more at fault for things going terminal than she was, though I in no way shape or form take full responsibility. And you didnt want any of this.
Short of having her die, this was the LAST thing I would have wanted. And I realize it’s more than one or two things that you are going though. There are so many things you must be feeling and hurting over.
Yeah, the long line of contract killers the credit card companies have been sending to get money from me doesn’t help And probably in the future (days, weeks, months or years) from now, there will be many things you will be angry over.
I’m angry she’s dating again. I’m angry she is too busy with her new boyfriend (who actually might be a girlfriend, but that’s a whole other post) to get around to making copies of the photos she promised to get me. I’m angry that my last ‘good bye’ to the woman I’ve been with for a third of my life and whom I had every intention of being with for the rest of it were sent out over f**king e-mail and not face-to-face. I’m angry that all her promises toward the end that we’d still see each other and how she couldn’t begin to imagine her life without me were just platitudes to get me out of her house without making a scene. I’m angry that she manipulated the truth about her intentions. But beyond all of that, at the bottom line, the core feeling isn’t anger, its hurt. Its a gargantuan sense of loss, an incomprehensible feeling of loneliness each and every god damned morning that I wake up and remember that she’s not there with me, and she isn’t going to be ever again and spend the rest of the day trying to come up with a good reason to wake up at all. Again, unless you are some sort of forgiving person who can forgive any devastating thing that happened to you. sorry again for your pain.
Thank you for that. — ~JR "… one that loved not wisely, but too well" -Othello
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Joe, I think it’s hard for anyone here to tell you what *you* will feel on your path to recovery. While anger is certainly a normal emotion, that doesn’t mean everyone feels anger (or in the same way, as Tracey said). Another thing is that the emotional stages aren’t necessarily clean. It’s possible to go from grief to anger and back to grief multiple times. Barb
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Can pain exist without anger? If you’re feeling pain, I would suggest that you have at least some accompanying anger inside somewhere. There is anger, no doubt about it. But as I said its not like anger is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost entirely by hatred of the ex. Which doesn’t make sense to me, and I can’t see it happening in my case. If I was idealizing her, sure, there’d be a point where I came to my senses and said "wait, she wasn’t as good as I’ve been thinking she was". But I’m not idealizing things (at least I don’t think I am). Lots of things I’m pissed about, but that’s not the primary feeling. I don’t want to ‘get back at her’ or get some kind of revenge. I just want her back, want a chance to make things work again. — ~JR Invest in tissues and vodka, since I’m using enough of both to drive stock prices up
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Barb Didrichsen said for all posterity… Another thing is that the emotional stages aren’t necessarily clean. It’s possible to go from grief to anger and back to grief multiple times.
… multiple times a day is not unheard of. Casey "I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." – Steven Wright
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Can pain exist without anger? If you’re feeling pain, I would suggest that you have at least some accompanying anger inside somewhere. There is anger, no doubt about it. But as I said its not like anger is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost entirely by hatred of the ex. Which doesn’t make sense to me, and I can’t see it happening in my case. If I was idealizing her, sure, there’d be a point where I came to my senses and said "wait, she wasn’t as good as I’ve been thinking she was". But I’m not idealizing things (at least I don’t think I am). Lots of things I’m pissed about, but that’s not the primary feeling. I don’t want to ‘get back at her’ or get some kind of revenge. I just want her back, want a chance to make things work again.
Joe – don’t listen to those people. There is NO "one" prescription that fits all. What there IS, however, is a succession of stages that we go thru. Check it all out on our ASD webpage at http://www.altsupportdivorce.org/ – under Resources.
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Can pain exist without anger? If you’re feeling pain, I would suggest that you have at least some accompanying anger inside somewhere. There is anger, no doubt about it. But as I said its not like anger is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost entirely by hatred of the ex.
Disagree. Anger is a stage that one passes through, and as people have said it doesn’t need to be at a person. It could be at life in general. However, it is a stage and not one in succession, as Bill pointed out. But anger is also a base-line cover-up for other emotions. A lot of times (all times) people get angry to cover up their other feelings – feelings of loss, sadness, whatever. I also do not think that there will be "no sense of loss." In order to have no sense of loss, I think, you have to feel as if those x years didn’t exist. How is that possible? Obviously you had fun and enjoyed the marriage yourself, regardless of what the ex felt about it. I personally pity the people who feel no sense of loss – what in the h*ll were they doing for those x years then. My ex took this approach – the marriage, to her, was kind of irrelevant. Never happy, huge mistake, ya di ya di ya. I kind of feel sorry for her . . . I mean to go through ten or eleven years of "togetherness" having kids and whatnot, but having been "miserable" all that time – what a waste. I resolved early on that I would still cherish the marriage and the times that we spetn together – not hte bad times, which to me were relatively short, but all the good times. Heck, they are memories for me. Just like I still cherish spending a Saturday afternoon in my dorm room with my first girlfriend – 22 years ago – and that one ended bizzarely! I think, and just a personal observation, that the issue that you might face is on letting go. Why would you want to be with somebody that doesn’t want to be with you? Are you afraid that you have lost your soul mate? Do you feel a lower self worth because of it? Frankly, your ex decided to leave because of her, not because of you. Would you really want to get back together with somebody that could possibly do that again? Which doesn’t make sense to me, and I can’t see it happening in my case. If I was idealizing her, sure, there’d be a point where I came to my senses and said "wait, she wasn’t as good as I’ve been thinking she was". But I’m not idealizing things (at least I don’t think I am). Lots of things I’m pissed about, but that’s not the primary feeling. I don’t want to ‘get back at her’ or get some kind of revenge. I just want her back, want a chance to make things work again.
Not wanting revenge is fine . . . perhaps if you looked a little more closely at your previous thoughts you would see that you have had thoughts of revenge, even if it is hoping she gets a flat tire or something. I too wanted to make things work. Heck, I still think that the problems in my marriage, and her problems in our marriage, were solvable within the marriage. I looked at my role in the breakdown, took sole responsibility for a (very short) while, thoguth about the why’s and the hows and the what’s. I guess I finally realized that it didn’t really say anything about me that the marriage broke down, although that is one of the huge stigma’s of divorce (can almost imagine George Carlin – "Shhh, he’s D I VO R C E D!") Many times, I think, the desire to try and fix somethign is because we think we failed. I am a perfectionist, and I would (and do on other things) sit there and think, "Well damnit, if I was involved how could it fail. I can do anything." But you know, and I have to forcefully remind myself of this from time to time, I am human. I tried. I learned a ton of lessons. It is sad that the marriage ended, I feel a sense of loss on that, I would never want to put it back together because the person I married is gone. She liked to laud it over me that "I Left YOU!" I think that gave her some sense of control, of betterment. I don’t think it did, but I think she felt that way. I wish I had profound words for you. It seems to me that what you need to do is have a funeral for the marriage. It is over, It needs to be laid to rest. There will always be some great memories, and that is good . . . it is what makes you alive. I would guess that your friends who are telling you that there should be no sense of loss and that you should be angry are probably people who have never been divorced, never lost somebody through death, or are stuck in those processes themselves. Cherish being alive, say your goodbyes, and move on. Peace. Rambler – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – — ~JR Invest in tissues and vodka, since I’m using enough of both to drive stock prices up
Response:
Well, I am no shrink. but I think no, you cannot get over the pain without passing through anger, or hate. Unless you are a person that never gets mad or angry or hateful no matter what horrible things happen to you, and forgives everything. Is there ANYTHING that has ever made you angry or hateful for more than a few minutes or hours before, in your whole life? I think hurt / sadness and anger / hate seem to share some relationship. but I can’t say what. All I know is, sooner or later, you probably WILL feel / be angry or even hateful. I know that when my folks divorced, I was hurt, scared and confused for a long time. the anger and hate came much later. anger is not even the right word for me. hate it more like it. but you are you. I am incredibly sorry all of this happen to you. I am assuming that SHE caused most of it or all of it. And you didnt want any of this. And I realize it’s more than one or two things that you are going though. There are so many things you must be feeling and hurting over. And probably in the future (days, weeks, months or years) from now, there will be many things you will be angry over. Again, unless you are some sort of forgiving person who can forgive any devastating thing that happened to you. sorry again for your pain. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – A few of the comments I’ve read here as well as some things family and friends have said to me suggest that the reason things are so unbelievably hard for me right now is that I’m still in ‘grieving’ mode and haven’t moved on to being angry. Its been said that once I can get to being mad about the divorce then I’ll start to feel a bit more functional. The thing is, I don’t think I’m idealizing my stbx or the relationship as a whole, and I don’t think I ever have since this whole mess started. Even before things fell apart there were things I really didn’t like about her, but almost all of them were minor. And I know for a fact I’m far from the easiest person in the world to get along with myself. But even knowing that it still hurts more than I could have ever imagined. So its not as if I can’t get out of bed some times because I think I’ve lost that ‘perfect’ person. I know she was flawed and I hate some of the things she’s done, but I STILL can’t get out of bed because of the pain of her being gone from my life. So my question is, does everyone go through an ‘anger’ phase where you don’t so much miss them as hate them? Frankly, I don’t WANT to hate her. As mad as I am at things she’s done (and is doing), and as imperfect as we both were, I really hope that it won’t take hate to move past things. Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
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What the hell does Iraq have to do with divorce and marriage?
We’re having a nasty divorce from Saddam
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Joe Random said for all posterity… But even knowing that it still hurts more than I could have ever imagined. So its not as if I can’t get out of bed some times because I think I’ve lost that ‘perfect’ person. I know she was flawed and I hate some of the things she’s done, but I STILL can’t get out of bed because of the pain of her being gone from my life.
I probably felt somewhat similar. I wanted her to leave and I wanted the divorce to be final, but it was a big change when she left. So my question is, does everyone go through an ‘anger’ phase where you don’t so much miss them as hate them? Frankly, I don’t WANT to hate her. As mad as I am at things she’s done (and is doing), and as imperfect as we both were, I really hope that it won’t take hate to move past things. Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
I think so. I don’t think I really went through an anger phase, even though I’ve posted some rather unflattering things here. Casey "I almost had a psychic girlfriend but she left me before we met." – Steven Wright
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I remember masking my anger under jokes. It was very much a reflex action, the words were out before I could stop them… John
A doctor say’s to a patient ”I’m mystified by your yellow penis . The man looks worried and the doctor asks him if he works with dangerous chemicals at work the man replies ”no I don’t work I’m unemployed . The doctor asks ” what do you do all day” the man then says ”well, I mostly sit down watching porno movies and eating Quavers.
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Can pain exist without anger? If you’re feeling pain, I would suggest that you have at least some accompanying anger inside somewhere.
There is anger, no doubt about it. But as I said its not like anger is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost entirely by hatred of the ex. Which doesn’t make sense to me, and I can’t see it happening in my case. If I was idealizing her, sure, there’d be a point where I came to my senses and said "wait, she wasn’t as good as I’ve been thinking she was". But I’m not idealizing things (at least I don’t think I am). Lots of things I’m pissed about, but that’s not the primary feeling. I don’t want to ‘get back at her’ or get some kind of revenge. I just want her back, want a chance to make things work again. — ~JR Invest in tissues and vodka, since I’m using enough of both to drive stock prices up
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There is anger, no doubt about it. But as I said its not like anger is all I’m feeling. People have been telling me that supposedly all the pain I’m feeling will eventually ‘morph’ into anger, so that there will be almost no sense of loss, and it will have been replaced almost entirely by hatred of the ex.
I disagree with those people – that is not a given. You may just come to the point where you still resent how things worked out, but are not consumed by it – have accepted, detached as much as possible, and moved on. If you spend the rest of your life bitter and resentful, it’s because you’ve let that happen, created it – the right thing always is to focus on the things you *can* control and/or change, namely yourself, and take care of what you need. That’s true in marriage as well as without. A little bit of ’selfish’ will get you by – I don’t mean self-absorbed or callous, just taking care of yourself.
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
No. It is a natural part of the healing process. Thanks, Mike
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Maybe some can. But don’t confuse going through the anger stage as meaning you *have* to be angry at your spouse. Anger can be anger at yourself for what your part in the divorce, it can be anger at life for, well, being life, it can be anger at a deity who allows these things to happen, anger at any number of things. And you don’t have to hate someone to be angry at them or angry at the decisions they made. Tracey
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Maybe some can. But don’t confuse going through the anger stage as meaning you *have* to be angry at your spouse. Anger can be anger at yourself for what your part in the divorce, it can be anger at life for, well, being life, it can be anger at a deity who allows these things to happen, anger at any number of things. And you don’t have to hate someone to be angry at them or angry at the decisions they made.
I remember masking my anger under jokes. It was very much a reflex action, the words were out before I could stop them… John
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
Can pain exist without anger? If you’re feeling pain, I would suggest that you have at least some accompanying anger inside somewhere.
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
Fear and anger are closely tied. This has been discussed before here. It helps (without the vodka) to sit down and try to identify the fears. For example: I fear that my ex may actually fall in love with or be in love with someone else. This would absolutely generate anger. In my situation, the fears that I always had over my relationship before and after divorce from my ex have been realized. It makes me damn angry and that anger is distributed in multiple directions. Toward my ex, toward the system that acts as an enabler for her, the attorneys, etc. In my opinion, anger is healthy as long as you don’t become so angry you start shooting people. Back in the 80’s when equitable distribution laws (red herring) were being enacted, a guy in Ft. Lauderdale in his 70’s who was in the process of a divorce, showed up at mediation with a gun and shot and killed everyone there. He died in prison. I guess the state should have realized then that these new laws weren’t good. But that’s a different thread. So, go ahead, identify your fears. Get angry over them, change the ones you can, and swallow hard over the ones you can’t
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger?
I’ll let ya know when I get there. Don’t think so. Or were we talking about anger about all the inhumanity in this lovely world?
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Can you get over the pain without passing through anger? Maybe some can. But don’t confuse going through the anger stage as meaning you *have* to be angry at your spouse. Anger can be anger at yourself for what your part in the divorce, it can be anger at life for, well, being life, it can be anger at a deity who allows these things to happen, anger at any number of things. And you don’t have to hate someone to be angry at them or angry at the decisions they made. Tracey
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The Dave
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