definitions…
Question:
I was thinking to the human behaviour, so i’ve come with this: A BASIC RULE OF SOCIETY. Humans relationship develop spontaneously in a society of people who are strangers to each other. Demonstration: Take a number of people and put the in a room, and lock the door. After some hours you will open the door and find that those people has developed so called relationships, e.g. they are talking to each other in groups. Now we are ready to give the: DEFINITION OF SPic PEOPLE. Take those people in the room who, after a reasonable amount of time hasn’t developed any relationship yet, neither they are talking to somebody. Those people will be called SPic. Davide
Response:
Davide, Your comments made me think of a play I had to read in one of my literature classes back in college I think it was by somebody like Sarte (you’ll have to forgive my memory, as it’s been almost 10 years). Four or five characters are stuck in a room. They continually annoy each other throughout the play. At the end, you find out they are in hell, stuck with these other people for eternity — "hell is other people." Kind of a depressing thought, one I don’t really agree with, but the guy did have a point on some level! 
Brian In article <38b7ae72.46…@news.nettuno.it>, a…@a.com (Davide) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was thinking to the human behaviour, so i’ve come with this: > A BASIC RULE OF SOCIETY. > Humans relationship develop spontaneously in a society of people who > are strangers to each other. > Demonstration: > Take a number of people and put the in a room, and lock the door. > After some hours you will open the door and find that those people has > developed so called relationships, e.g. they are talking to each other > in groups. > Now we are ready to give the: > DEFINITION OF SPic PEOPLE. > Take those people in the room who, after a reasonable amount of time > hasn’t developed any relationship yet, neither they are talking to > somebody. Those people will be called SPic. > Davide
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Response:
>From: Brian brimo…@my-deja.com >Your comments made me think of a play I had to read in one of my >literature classes back in college I think it was by somebody like >Sarte (you’ll have to forgive my memory, as it’s been almost 10 >years). Four or five characters are stuck in a room. They continually >annoy each other throughout the play. At the end, you find out they >are in hell, stuck with these other people for eternity — "hell is >other people." Kind of a depressing thought, one I don’t really agree >with, but the guy did have a point on some level! >Brian
it brought to my mind, that movie The Breakfast Club. Pam
Response:
It’s Sartre’s "No Exit." Gray – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Brian <brimo…@my-deja.com> wrote: >Your comments made me think of a play I had to read in one of my >literature classes back in college I think it was by somebody like >Sarte (you’ll have to forgive my memory, as it’s been almost 10 >years). Four or five characters are stuck in a room. They continually >annoy each other throughout the play. At the end, you find out they >are in hell, stuck with these other people for eternity — "hell is >other people." Kind of a depressing thought, one I don’t really agree >with, but the guy did have a point on some level! >Brian
Response:
Thanks Gray. I guess my memory is better than I give it credit for sometimes. Brian In article <89a4k2$ia…@ionews.ionet.net>, – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text - ergray…@hotmail.com wrote: > It’s Sartre’s "No Exit." > Gray > Brian <brimo…@my-deja.com> wrote: > >Your comments made me think of a play I had to read in one of my > >literature classes back in college I think it was by somebody like > >Sarte (you’ll have to forgive my memory, as it’s been almost 10 > >years). Four or five characters are stuck in a room. They continually > >annoy each other throughout the play. At the end, you find out they > >are in hell, stuck with these other people for eternity — "hell is > >other people." Kind of a depressing thought, one I don’t really agree > >with, but the guy did have a point on some level! > >Brian
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Response:
In article <20000226202553.03638.00002…@ng-cs1.aol.com>, mzp…@aol.com (MzPami) wrote: > it brought to my mind, that movie The Breakfast Club. > Pam
That’s a good point. I wonder why I didn’t think of it. It’s one of the few movies I actually own a copy of. Judd Nelson’s shining moment as an actor: "Your parents and my parents should get together and go bowling." + "Does Barry Manilow know you raided his wardrobe?" Brian Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
In article <38b7ae72.46…@news.nettuno.it>, a…@a.com (Davide) wrote: > DEFINITION OF SPic PEOPLE. > Take those people in the room who, after a reasonable amount of time > hasn’t developed any relationship yet, neither they are talking to > somebody. Those people will be called SPic.
Yep. If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I wasn’t talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself something to eat and was savouring it for a moment before plunging back into the throng. I’d be doing a hell of a lot of fake savouring. Ollie
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>From: (Ollie) >Yep. If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met >before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy >standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I wasn’t >talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself something to eat >and was savouring it for a moment before plunging back into the throng. >I’d be doing a hell of a lot of fake savouring. >Ollie
I’d be the one with the agonized look on my face because none of the buffet food is on my diet! Pam
Response:
> A BASIC RULE OF SOCIETY. > Humans relationship develop spontaneously in a society of people who > are strangers to each other. > Demonstration: > Take a number of people and put the in a room, and lock the door. > After some hours you will open the door and find that those people has > developed so called relationships, e.g. they are talking to each other > in groups. > DEFINITION OF SPic PEOPLE. > Take those people in the room who, after a reasonable amount of time > hasn’t developed any relationship yet, neither they are talking to > somebody. Those people will be called SPic.
I must be borderline: Put me in there, and one experiment out of ten I might have actually spoken to somebody beyond just ‘hi’, but NEVER would I actually establish a personal relationship with anybody to where I’d later know how to get in touch with that person again. So, am I SP or not??
Response:
Folks, We could be onto a good thing here. I reckon a great way to get SPics round their SP would be to lock a bunch of them in the same room for 3 hours. I’m pretty sure that they’d ALL be talking after a while, if not from boredom alone. Let’s face it, talking (in an unstructured session) about your SP has to beat sitting there staring at the floor/walls/your shoes/watch, particularly in a situation where there those gathered don’t expect to socialise with each other again. Hehe, do you reckon I’ve cracked it or just gone off the deep end ? Nickf MzPami <mzp…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20000227193023.01331.00001306@ng-fm1.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >From: (Ollie) > >Yep. If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met > >before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy > >standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I wasn’t > >talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself something to eat > >and was savouring it for a moment before plunging back into the throng. > >I’d be doing a hell of a lot of fake savouring. > >Ollie > I’d be the one with the agonized look on my face because none of the buffet > food is on my diet! > Pam
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i agree >Folks, >We could be onto a good thing here. I reckon a great way to get SPics round >their SP would be to lock a bunch of them in the same room for 3 hours. I’m >pretty sure that they’d ALL be talking after a while, if not from boredom >alone. Let’s face it, talking (in an unstructured session) about your SP has >to beat sitting there staring at the floor/walls/your shoes/watch, >particularly in a situation where there those gathered don’t expect to >socialise with each other again. > Hehe, do you reckon I’ve cracked it or just gone off the deep end ? >Nickf
*LiZ* nowdevirgini…@cs.com (AOL finally realized i havent been paying them…so "glasshed" is gone… and so is my webpage)
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<<If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I wasn’t talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself something to eat and was savouring it for a moment before plunging back into the throng.>> Hey, a room of strangers AND a buffet, not too bad, ignore the people and spend my two hours sampling the foods and then gorging on whatever I liked best. — Unless there was an attractive woman among the people. Then I don’t know what I’d do: Say ‘hi’ to her and then get hurt when she rejects me. Stare at her being afraid to say ‘hi’ until she gets upset at my staring. Stay at the buffet to avoid either of the first two outcomes. My fantasy: She’d get a crush on me and come over to the buffet and say ‘hi’ and smile and introduce herself and shake my hand, all within the first five minutes, then continue to hold my hand for the remaining 1:55.
Response:
<<I reckon a great way to get SPics round their SP would be to lock a bunch of them in the same room for 3 hours.>> I’d like to try that experiment, but I doubt any SP folks in this area would volunteer for the experiment so I’m not even going to try to round up anyone.
Response:
>From: clj Jakesc…@yahoo.com >lol, no you haven’t gone off the deep end (at least not in this >thread)…here’s an experiment, lets lock a bunch of social phobic’s into >posting in this NG once a day and no where else, and over time see if >friendship is forged…(of course if it is, then some detractors will claim >cliques and things) >Jake
what?? you mean there’s other NG’s??? Pam
Response:
Whoa there, cowboy…no need to be so critical. Robert, I believe, was making a somewhat joking post, intermixed with some very valid ideas and ideals for a SPic, like presupposing rejection and wishing everyone *else* would approach *you*. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -clj wrote: > Robert Maas <r…@shell.netmagic.net> wrote > > <<If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met > > before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy > > standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I > > wasn’t talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself > > something to eat and was savouring it for a moment before plunging > > back into the throng.>> > > Hey, a room of strangers AND a buffet, not too bad, ignore the people > > and spend my two hours sampling the foods and then gorging on whatever > > I liked best. — Unless there was an attractive woman among the > > people. > Why does she have to be physically attractive, isn’t the person beneath > the frame of more importance? give others a chance. > >Then I don’t know what I’d do: Say ‘hi’ to her and then get > > hurt when she rejects me. > Presupposing rejection is not a good idea. > >Stare at her being afraid to say ‘hi’ until > > she gets upset at my staring. Stay at the buffet to avoid either of > > the first two outcomes. > Starring is not cool, you know the rules why don’t you obey them? > > My fantasy: She’d get a crush on me and come over to the buffet and > > say ‘hi’ and smile and introduce herself and shake my hand, all within > > the first five minutes, then continue to hold my hand for the > > remaining 1:55. > This is an *unrealistic* fantasy, how many times have you observed this > happening?? It doesn’t happen, does it…yet people find love, how ? i > think you should give up these fantasies and adopt socially acceptable > thinking/behaviour and let this become your standard. > Jake
– Karen Ingraffea —————— "I might be a coward; I’m afraid of what I might find out…" -(The Mighty Mighty Bosstones) The Impression That I Get "All things being equal, you lose." -Anon
Response:
I previously said <<… Unless there was an attractive woman among the people.>> and somebody retorted <<Why does she have to be physically attractive, isn’t the person beneath the frame of more importance? give others a chance.>> Gee, I didn’t use the word "physically", yet that’s what you bitched about. Go back and read my original again and try responding to EXACTLY what I said, instead of to something with an extra word inserted. >Then I don’t know what I’d do: Say ‘hi’ to her and then get > hurt when she rejects me.
<<Presupposing rejection is not a good idea.>> My experience is 100% rejection. Only Polyanna would ignore such a solidly bad record and continue to assume everything will go just fine from now on. > My fantasy: …
<<This is an *unrealistic* fantasy, …>> Yup. Nothing good has ever happened to me. All I have are fantasies, specifically unrealistic fantasies. Realistic fantasies where I get hurt again are too depressing, why bother with them?
Response:
<<Robert, I believe, was making a somewhat joking post, …>> How dare you accuse me of joking. You probably think my whole life is hilarious, and you’d probably have fun laughing at me if you ever saw me sitting in the corner afraid to join the group.
Response:
r…@shell.netmagic.net (Robert Maas) wrote: >I previously said <<… Unless there was an attractive woman among the >people.>> and somebody retorted <<Why does she have to be physically >attractive, isn’t the person beneath the frame of more importance? >give others a chance.>> >Gee, I didn’t use the word "physically", yet that’s what you bitched >about. Go back and read my original again and try responding to >EXACTLY what I said, instead of to something with an extra word >inserted.
yes, I’ll give you that, you got me there ….my only excuse is like I said in another reply to you. My responses are colored by your posting history in this group and others. >>Then I don’t know what I’d do: Say ‘hi’ to her and then get >> hurt when she rejects me. ><<Presupposing rejection is not a good idea.>> >My experience is 100% rejection. Only Polyanna would ignore such a >solidly bad record and continue to assume everything will go just fine >from now on.
There must be a reason? you say females find you attractive (7 out of 10) and that you have had rapport with them in certain situations. I still think this type of thinking is negative reinforcement and part of the problem. >> My fantasy: … ><<This is an *unrealistic* fantasy, …>> >Yup. Nothing good has ever happened to me.
If you’re totally honest the use of "absolutes" in negative statements like this are fictitious. >All I have are fantasies, >specifically unrealistic fantasies. Realistic fantasies where I get >hurt again are too depressing, why bother with them?
Granted, but getting *lost* in an invented fantasy (if his applies to you) can be very hurtful to yourself and others, and is also part of the problem in becoming well. BTW you didn’t answer my question below: ">> Starring is not cool, you know the rules why don’t you obey them?" Jake
Response:
Karen Ingraffea <ingraffe…@uofs.edu> wrote: >Whoa there, cowboy…no need to be so critical. Robert, I believe, was >making a somewhat joking post, intermixed with some very valid ideas and >ideals for a SPic, like presupposing rejection and wishing everyone *else* >would approach *you*.
Robert has a long history, i suggest you do a dejanews search alt.support shyness and this group, and you may figure out why I’m saying the things I’m saying….this is a support group and I’m actually trying to help him the only way I know how…. Jake – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->clj wrote: >> Robert Maas <r…@shell.netmagic.net> wrote >> > <<If you put me in a room with a bunch of people who’d never met >> > before, and opened the door a couple of hours later, I’d be the guy >> > standing over by the buffet trying to look as though the reason I >> > wasn’t talking to anyone was because I’d just gone to get myself >> > something to eat and was savouring it for a moment before plunging >> > back into the throng.>> >> > Hey, a room of strangers AND a buffet, not too bad, ignore the people >> > and spend my two hours sampling the foods and then gorging on whatever >> > I liked best. — Unless there was an attractive woman among the >> > people. >> Why does she have to be physically attractive, isn’t the person beneath >> the frame of more importance? give others a chance. >> >Then I don’t know what I’d do: Say ‘hi’ to her and then get >> > hurt when she rejects me. >> Presupposing rejection is not a good idea. >> >Stare at her being afraid to say ‘hi’ until >> > she gets upset at my staring. Stay at the buffet to avoid either of >> > the first two outcomes. >> Starring is not cool, you know the rules why don’t you obey them? >> > My fantasy: She’d get a crush on me and come over to the buffet and >> > say ‘hi’ and smile and introduce herself and shake my hand, all within >> > the first five minutes, then continue to hold my hand for the >> > remaining 1:55. >> This is an *unrealistic* fantasy, how many times have you observed this >> happening?? It doesn’t happen, does it…yet people find love, how ? i >> think you should give up these fantasies and adopt socially acceptable >> thinking/behaviour and let this become your standard. >> Jake
Response:
Robert Maas wrote: > <<Robert, I believe, was making a somewhat joking post, …>> > How dare you accuse me of joking. You probably think my whole life is > hilarious, and you’d probably have fun laughing at me if you ever saw > me sitting in the corner afraid to join the group.
Geez, i’m sorry Robert. Didn’t mean to get myself in trouble, I was only trying to stick up for you, as what you described sounds much like what I would do. For the record, no I don’t think your life is funny, and no I am not laughing at you. I understand how hard it is to try to believe that; it is something i struggle with every day. But please just believe that my sentence about joking came out differently than I meant it and I am entirely on your side. — Karen Ingraffea —————— "I might be a coward; I’m afraid of what I might find out…" -(The Mighty Mighty Bosstones) The Impression That I Get "All things being equal, you lose." -Anon
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>Gee, I didn’t use the word "physically", yet that’s what you bitched
<<yes, I’ll give you that, you got me there ….my only excuse is like I said in another reply to you. My responses are colored by your posting history in this group and others.>> Whatever gave you the idea I was interested ONLY in visually attractive women? Remember that I got interested in Janet even though I have never seen her in person nor seen any picture of her. It was her appreciation of my helping of her, and her helping me, that made me care about her. Then I fell in love with Bronwyn, who is nice looking but not visually attractive enough that I would have spoken to her if she were in that room with other shybies. Then I became friends with Sweet Pest, who described herself as so grossly ugly that she breaks mirrors and scares children, and even after I saw her pictures I didn’t think of her as very attractive visually, maybe good looking, maybe not, but we loved each other. The first time I saw her in person, by accident, her face looked so messy I felt sorry for her, but I still loved her, and was rather surprised when I really met her later and found her to be beautiful. I would have held her in my arms and loved her even if she were ugly. Finally, dead2u is my most loyal e-mail pal, and I currently love her more than anybody else, despite her so-so visual appearance. I wish so much that we didn’t live so far away (appx. 3000 miles). Locked in a room of shybies for two hours, there might be a woman who is visually attractive, or there might be a woman who is attractive in some other way, maybe even a woman who looks ugly but sweet, and I might get warm feelings toward any of those women. Then I might say ‘hi’ to her, or I might be afraid to. <<There must be a reason? you say females find you attractive (7 out of 10) and that you have had rapport with them in certain situations.>> Just one, Judy. Only one other woman in this part of California ever said I was visually attractive, and she has very poor eyesight so she doesn’t count in this context. <<getting *lost* in an invented fantasy (if his applies to you) can be very hurtful to yourself and others, and is also part of the problem in becoming well.>> I only spend a few hours a day escaping from this loneliness by having fantasies about not being alone. <<BTW you didn’t answer my question below:>> ">> Starring is not cool, you know the rules why don’t you obey them?" I don’t stare, but any time I looked at anyone for longer than a half second she accused me of staring. There’s no way to win. Eye contact is forbidden by social rules as you say. Death to eye contact!!
Response:
<<I was only trying to stick up for you,>> A pun comes to mind: You were trying to stick up me (i.e. point gun at me and rob me). I don’t know why you would want to stick up for me. It doesn’t make any sense. Are you in Pennsylvania? Several of my recent penpals are there too. It’s a heartbreak state where I develop an e-mail relationship with people there but we never get to meet in person. I’ve been hurt too much lately to allow myself to think of you as anybody who could stick up for me or comfort me or anything else friendly. I’m all burned out, dead since November. I don’t think anybody really cares about me, except maybe dead2u, and she’s been so depressed since about the same time I got emotionally dead that it’s almost like she isn’t around any more, like I’m totally alone and NOBODY ANYWHERE cares about me any more. <<as what you described sounds much like what I would do.>> So, if it’s you, it’s real, but if it’s me, I’m just joking?? I wonder if you can’t believe I’m real for the same reason I can’t believe you or anyone else is real… We’re just keystrokes on a screen to each other, not living people. Maybe there are no living people, anywhere. <<I am entirely on your side.>> No, I’m on the West side, and you’re on the East side, 2000 miles away. I’m all alone here. I want enough money that I can eat Beef Chow Fun, and somebody here in California to share it with. Or, without the money, but with somebody to be with me, how about the lunch special (about $3 for chow mein plus 3 other items, enough to feed two people) at the New Orient at the corner of Rengstorff and old Middlefield. Or maybe go to Taco Bell and I’ll try their Enchilito or whatever it’s called, the Enchilata thingy with gooey stuff and cheese on the outside? I already tried their Chalupa, alone in my car, but I can’t eat that Ench… thingy alone in my car, too messy.
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> I thought of "Twelve angry men."
But those people had a specific task they were supposed to accomplish. I don’t think that was the intention of the suggestion to just stick a bunch of shybies/SPics in a room, which I assumed to be devoid of any specific agenda/task.
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r…@shell.netmagic.net (Robert Maas) wrote: >>Gee, I didn’t use the word "physically", yet that’s what you bitched ><<yes, I’ll give you that, you got me there ….my only excuse is >like I said in another reply to you. My responses are colored by your >posting history in this group and others.>> >Whatever gave you the idea I was interested ONLY in visually >attractive women?
Posts where you mention matchmaking services and describe all the woman presented in California as "terribly ugly" and also references with "The Auburn Lurker" _seem_ (to me) to indicate an unhealthy fascination with beauty…. >Remember that I got interested in Janet even though
I don’t remember, I haven’t followed all of your posts… >I have never seen her in person nor seen any picture of her. It was >her appreciation of my helping of her, and her helping me, that made >me care about her.
I hope Janet is not yet another woman (based on posts i’ve read) that you’ve kept pursuing after they’ve tried to break off all contact with you…. >Then I fell in love with Bronwyn, who is nice >looking but not visually attractive enough that I would have spoken to >her if she were in that room with other shybies.
Bronwyn was a married woman, even after knowing this, why did you pursue her as a love interest? >Then I became friends >with Sweet Pest, who described herself as so grossly ugly that she >breaks mirrors and scares children, and even after I saw her pictures >I didn’t think of her as very attractive visually, maybe good looking, >maybe not, but we loved each other.
I don’t understand, isn’t good looking very attractive?? and are you sure you had a bona fide relationship and not a let one of the fantasies you describe get out of control. >The first time I saw her in >person, by accident, her face looked so messy I felt sorry for her, >but I still loved her, and was rather surprised when I really met her >later and found her to be beautiful. I would have held her in my arms >and loved her even if she were ugly. Finally, dead2u is my most loyal >e-mail pal, and I currently love her more than anybody else, despite >her so-so visual appearance. I wish so much that we didn’t live so far >away (appx. 3000 miles).
From your posts of the past you seem to fall in love _too easily_ and then don’t let go even when woman request that you do so, this is unacceptable behaviour and I hope dead2u is not another case. >Locked in a room of shybies for two hours, there might be a woman who >is visually attractive, or there might be a woman who is attractive in >some other way, maybe even a woman who looks ugly but sweet, and I >might get warm feelings toward any of those women. Then I might say >’hi’ to her,
Do you only say ‘hi’ to woman that you have warm feelings for? > or I might be afraid to.
paxil or some other medication or therapy could help you with this. ><<There must be a reason? you say females find you attractive (7 out >of 10) and that you have had rapport with them in certain >situations.>> >Just one, Judy. ><<Presupposing rejection is not a good idea.>>
So the others may reject you based on looks then? or is there some other thing that they feel uncomfortable about? (Back to the original question) — why do women reject you? > Only one other woman in this part of California ever >said I was visually attractive, and she has very poor eyesight so she >doesn’t count in this context.
well maybe she was just trying to be nice….perhaps the other one was doing the same? ><<getting *lost* in an invented fantasy (if his applies to you) can be >very hurtful to yourself and others, and is also part of the problem >in becoming well.>> >I only spend a few hours a day escaping from this loneliness by having >fantasies about not being alone.
I hope what you are saying is true here…. going by posts i’ve read, It seems that you have trouble letting go of a love fantasies when told plainly and clearly that their is no reciprocated affection by the other person concerned… ><<BTW you didn’t answer my question below:>> >">> Starring is not cool, you know the rules why don’t you obey them?" >I don’t stare, but any time I looked at anyone for longer than a half >second she accused me of staring. There’s no way to win. Eye contact >is forbidden by social rules as you say. Death to eye contact!!
Robert there must be a reason why woman react this way to you, it doesn’t happen with most people, what is it about you that elicits this response? Find the answer and work on changing yourself. Jake
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -MzPami wrote: > >From: Brian brimo…@my-deja.com > >Your comments made me think of a play I had to read in one of my > >literature classes back in college I think it was by somebody like > >Sarte (you’ll have to forgive my memory, as it’s been almost 10 > >years). Four or five characters are stuck in a room. They continually > >annoy each other throughout the play. At the end, you find out they > >are in hell, stuck with these other people for eternity — "hell is > >other people." Kind of a depressing thought, one I don’t really agree > >with, but the guy did have a point on some level! > >Brian > it brought to my mind, that movie The Breakfast Club. > Pam
I thought of "Twelve angry men." Nick
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Filed under: Loneliness
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