Lonely Loneliness

from pain, beauty

Question:

    I know that feeling well. Seems you actually get to that point and they crucify you…each and every time. ….but I haven’t given up hope yet. There has got to be some out there that don’t turn to witches at midnight.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – happened to someone I love…my mother, my SO…."I’m so sorry; I love you!" Let me extend this a smidge: There’s a saying " Truly loving some is never having to say you are sorry" Has anyone ever been that perfect? The last one I recall ended up on a cross… Yet some people cling to this unrealistic view of love and never say "I’m so sorry" Just another cynical thought of the day Roy

Response:

  ….but I haven’t given up hope yet. There has got to be some out there that don’t turn to witches at midnight.

Eye of newt, toe of frog…. boil boil, toil and trouble…. (cackle cackle)

Response:

At some point, guys, you need to preserve what little is left of your own dignity  or sense of self.  Otherwise, you’ll might lose it and go totally nuts. Not only that, but it’s also the only way you might keep her…

good point!

Response:

anyway, I just read this yesterday: "When someone says I love you, it’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU." what do people here think about that?  And as you’re forming an opinion, consider the reverse: "When someone says I hate you, it’s about THEM and not about you…"

Worth pondering… especially when "love" is supposedly unconditional… Wouldn’t that mean that it wouldn’t change, even if either person DID?   It makes me think of the old thing i used to say to the kids, "i love you but i don’t like what you did" when they would do something bad.  The "i love you" is not changeable.   I didn’t answer your question, but just wanted to add some thoughts.

Response:

Something i found very interesting when my ex and i were splitting up that suddenly he wrote the "i love you’s" and love notes and stuff, once he found out we were not going to be together anymore.  Wonder why it started then? It would have seemed more sincere to me had they come during the times we were not in the process of divorcing…  Like on an anniversary or after the birth of a child, or a birthday or even just a regular day… Why wait until it’s too late to let someone know you love them?  Maybe we can all learn something from this, about letting our loved ones know how much we appreciate them.. not in the future, but NOW..

Well, in my case, there were plenty of love letters throughout our relationship. Reading them breaks my heart.  I gave her all of mine back.

Response:

At some point, guys, you need to preserve what little is left of your own dignity  or sense of self.  Otherwise, you’ll might lose it and go totally nuts.

Not only that, but it’s also the only way you might keep her…

Response:

Well, in my case, there were plenty of love letters throughout our relationship. Reading them breaks my heart.  I gave her all of mine back.

They do all become rather meaningless after the fact, don’t they?   sigh….

Response:

happened to someone I love…my mother, my SO…."I’m so sorry; I love you!"

Let me extend this a smidge: There’s a saying " Truly loving some is never having to say you are sorry" Has anyone ever been that perfect? The last one I recall ended up on a cross… Yet some people cling to this unrealistic view of love and never say "I’m so sorry" Just another cynical thought of the day Roy

Response:

Yes, I say that to my kid, I love you but not what you…in fact, I say that to my ex; I still love you but I don’t like the things you’re doing

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – anyway, I just read this yesterday: "When someone says I love you, it’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU." what do people here think about that?  And as you’re forming an opinion, consider the reverse: "When someone says I hate you, it’s about THEM and not about you…" Worth pondering… especially when "love" is supposedly unconditional… Wouldn’t that mean that it wouldn’t change, even if either person DID? It makes me think of the old thing i used to say to the kids, "i love you but i don’t like what you did" when they would do something bad.  The "i love you" is not changeable. I didn’t answer your question, but just wanted to add some thoughts.

Response:

Interesting! Well the phase does start with "I". Hmmmmm… I think it is inheirent in human nature to be selfish. Even if the extent is only to look after one’s own best interests, a person would likely do that BEFORE thinking of others. Perhaps therein lies the true definition of love: The ability to put your partners needs and interests before your own. If you can do that, and so does your partner, then I think your marriage will last a LONG time. Unfortunately, I beleive that most people – when the say "I love you" really mean, "I want you" or "I want to have exclusive rights to you" or "I want to control you" or "I want to own you". And this statement is rarely offered in equality. That is, "I want to control YOU – YOU OTOH, have to accept that I will do what I damn well please!" Hmmm, well call me cynical then! <g In my experience, and as I have observed, many marriages fail because people enter into them for selfish reasons rather than selfless reasons. IMHO, if you fail to put your partners needs before your own, then they will begin to feel abandoned and used. Let them feel this way long wnough or often enough and at the very least the relationship is toast – and eventually the marriage. So, in response to your query, the phrase "I love you" must be interpreted based on your knowledge of the invividual. IMO, you have to look beneath this statement with insight to determine what is really being said. If you are lucky, then "I love you" will mean "I want to be with you and tend to your needs". But even that only has worth if you feel the same way and are prepared to act in kind. As they say "It takes two". As to hate, well if someone hates me it is definitely THEIR problem, and they damn well better deal with it. Hey, does that mean that if someone loves me it is also their problem??? lol! I find it ironic that people who hate a person often embark on the war path simply because of a perceived "wrongdoing" at the hands of the object of their hate. This is folley because it makes them no better than the person they hate! It actually MAY make them worse! Hate is such a waste of time, energy, and of a life. I believe that hate is often born of insecurity inside ones self. A person may be threatened by anothers success or confidence, so to sooth their fears and insecurities, they create hate as a band-aid to cover their own weakness. Also folley because this appears to make them strong. Hatred always appears strong. But in the long run, hatred is a self-fulfilling prophecy of destruction, ruin, and desolation. After all, how can you love someone full of hate??? You can’t! And if a person is this way, they seal their own fate in the most horrible of purgatories that they create for themselves. Bottom line, no mater which side of the coin you are on – love or hate – you will always have your own issues to deal with. Failure to deal with them in either case will lead to isolation, loneliness, and a very bleak life. Wow, that is deep. Not bad for a lazy Sunday! <g Cloaked – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Something i found very interesting when my ex and i were splitting up that suddenly he wrote the "i love you’s" and love notes and stuff, once he found out we were not going to be together anymore.  Wonder why it started then? this is interesting too because I also find that I love you has a particular attraction during the "goodbye" phase…sort of I did love you and do love you, but I can’t be with you…. anyway, I just read this yesterday: "When someone says I love you, it’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU." what do people here think about that?  And as you’re forming an opinion, consider the reverse: "When someone says I hate you, it’s about THEM and not about you…"

Response:

When my and I split, I gave fleeting thought to writing a love letter.filled with "Deep Thoughts."  However, I realized that my ex would only see this as pathetic and desparate.  I had already spent a considerable amount of time debasing myself in other ways and all my pleas and mimnistrations had fallen on eaf ears. At some point, guys, you need to preserve what little is left of your own dignity  or sense of self.  Otherwise, you’ll might lose it and go totally nuts.  – ===Rog’===  These are indeed beautiful words.  Unfortunately, I have found that it’s against the rules of the game to use such beauty on someone who’s thinking of leaving.  These are merely perceived as further weakness.  It’s a really sad irony of life that to keep the one you love at times like this, you need to act like you don’t need them.  It’s about maintaining your attractiveness.  The honesty and loving words usually won’t do it at a bad time, as much as I love these words and love to be honest to the one for whom I would die.

Response:

These are indeed beautiful words.  Unfortunately, I have found that it’s against the rules of the game to use such beauty on someone who’s thinking of leaving. These are merely perceived as further weakness.  It’s a really sad irony of life that to keep the one you love at times like this, you need to act like you don’t need them.  It’s about maintaining your attractiveness.  The honesty and loving words usually won’t do it at a bad time, as much as I love these words and love to be honest to the one for whom I would die.

Something i found very interesting when my ex and i were splitting up that suddenly he wrote the "i love you’s" and love notes and stuff, once he found out we were not going to be together anymore.  Wonder why it started then? It would have seemed more sincere to me had they come during the times we were not in the process of divorcing…  Like on an anniversary or after the birth of a child, or a birthday or even just a regular day… Why wait until it’s too late to let someone know you love them?  Maybe we can all learn something from this, about letting our loved ones know how much we appreciate them.. not in the future, but NOW..

Response:

When my and I split, I gave fleeting thought to writing a love letter.filled with "Deep Thoughts."  However, I realized that my ex would only see this as pathetic and desparate.

I agree.  YOu have to consider the audience; you can make the most impassioned pleas for a particular political position, for example, but if the listener is hard-wired to hold a different position, you will only set yourself up for ridicule.  It’s fine to write the poems and letters but just never send them. I had already spent a considerable amount of time – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – debasing myself in other ways and all my pleas and mimnistrations had fallen on eaf ears. At some point, guys, you need to preserve what little is left of your own dignity  or sense of self.  Otherwise, you’ll might lose it and go totally nuts.  – ===Rog’===  These are indeed beautiful words.  Unfortunately, I have found that it’s against the rules of the game to use such beauty on someone who’s thinking of leaving.  These are merely perceived as further weakness.  It’s a really sad irony of life that to keep the one you love at times like this, you need to act like you don’t need them.  It’s about maintaining your attractiveness.  The honesty and loving words usually won’t do it at a bad time, as much as I love these words and love to be honest to the one for whom I would die.

Response:

Think about how often people say "But I love you!" as part of a protest….it’s about THEM and their need to "love" or connect….when I say I love you to my child am I hoping he will say it back (he does, but if I knew he wouldn’t would I still say it?  I mean, am I saying it because I want HIM to hear it, or because I need to say it?  HE doesn’t need it….)….sometimes I’ve said it as a reassurance, if something bad happened to someone I love…my mother, my SO…."I’m so sorry; I love you!" as a kind of pillow….but yes, at times the phrase I love you is about the speaker and not the recipient.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Interesting! Well the phase does start with "I". Hmmmmm… I think it is inheirent in human nature to be selfish. Even if the extent is only to look after one’s own best interests, a person would likely do that BEFORE thinking of others. Perhaps therein lies the true definition of love: The ability to put your partners needs and interests before your own. If you can do that, and so does your partner, then I think your marriage will last a LONG time. Unfortunately, I beleive that most people – when the say "I love you" really mean, "I want you" or "I want to have exclusive rights to you" or "I want to control you" or "I want to own you". And this statement is rarely offered in equality. That is, "I want to control YOU – YOU OTOH, have to accept that I will do what I damn well please!" Hmmm, well call me cynical then! <g In my experience, and as I have observed, many marriages fail because people enter into them for selfish reasons rather than selfless reasons. IMHO, if you fail to put your partners needs before your own, then they will begin to feel abandoned and used. Let them feel this way long wnough or often enough and at the very least the relationship is toast – and eventually the marriage. So, in response to your query, the phrase "I love you" must be interpreted based on your knowledge of the invividual. IMO, you have to look beneath this statement with insight to determine what is really being said. If you are lucky, then "I love you" will mean "I want to be with you and tend to your needs". But even that only has worth if you feel the same way and are prepared to act in kind. As they say "It takes two". As to hate, well if someone hates me it is definitely THEIR problem, and they damn well better deal with it. Hey, does that mean that if someone loves me it is also their problem??? lol! I find it ironic that people who hate a person often embark on the war path simply because of a perceived "wrongdoing" at the hands of the object of their hate. This is folley because it makes them no better than the person they hate! It actually MAY make them worse! Hate is such a waste of time, energy, and of a life. I believe that hate is often born of insecurity inside ones self. A person may be threatened by anothers success or confidence, so to sooth their fears and insecurities, they create hate as a band-aid to cover their own weakness. Also folley because this appears to make them strong. Hatred always appears strong. But in the long run, hatred is a self-fulfilling prophecy of destruction, ruin, and desolation. After all, how can you love someone full of hate??? You can’t! And if a person is this way, they seal their own fate in the most horrible of purgatories that they create for themselves. Bottom line, no mater which side of the coin you are on – love or hate – you will always have your own issues to deal with. Failure to deal with them in either case will lead to isolation, loneliness, and a very bleak life. Wow, that is deep. Not bad for a lazy Sunday! <g Cloaked Something i found very interesting when my ex and i were splitting up that suddenly he wrote the "i love you’s" and love notes and stuff, once he found out we were not going to be together anymore.  Wonder why it started then? this is interesting too because I also find that I love you has a particular attraction during the "goodbye" phase…sort of I did love you and do love you, but I can’t be with you…. anyway, I just read this yesterday: "When someone says I love you, it’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU." what do people here think about that?  And as you’re forming an opinion, consider the reverse: "When someone says I hate you, it’s about THEM and not about you…"

Response:

Something i found very interesting when my ex and i were splitting up that suddenly he wrote the "i love you’s" and love notes and stuff, once he found out we were not going to be together anymore.  Wonder why it started then?

this is interesting too because I also find that I love you has a particular attraction during the "goodbye" phase…sort of I did love you and do love you, but I can’t be with you…. anyway, I just read this yesterday: "When someone says I love you, it’s about THEM, it’s not about YOU." what do people here think about that?  And as you’re forming an opinion, consider the reverse: "When someone says I hate you, it’s about THEM and not about you…"

Response:

Wow, you guys both made me cry with these beautiful letters.   They made me want to be the woman you wrote these to.  How fortunate they are to have been loved by you both.

These are indeed beautiful words.  Unfortunately, I have found that it’s against the rules of the game to use such beauty on someone who’s thinking of leaving. These are merely perceived as further weakness.  It’s a really sad irony of life that to keep the one you love at times like this, you need to act like you don’t need them.  It’s about maintaining your attractiveness.  The honesty and loving words usually won’t do it at a bad time, as much as I love these words and love to be honest to the one for whom I would die.

Response:

Wow, you guys both made me cry with these beautiful letters.   They made me want to be the woman you wrote these to.  How fortunate they are to have been loved by you both. Cheryl – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – To my wife Diane I Adore by ronn You are my one and only love I have ever wanted or have had. I sent this email before and prayed before your decision has been finalized. I hope with all my heart it is something I can live with. I do not think you will ever know how much I love you and how I feel inside. If you could touch my heart for one second I would never have to say I love you again. If you could read my mind I would never have to say I love you again. Because I have never left you even when I wanted to sometimes. I never left you when I did not know what to do with you or for you. I stayed through good and bad. For one reason that reason is I do not give my Love To any one, I gave it only to you. When I said I do. I meant it. The world is not a easy place and if every one wanted out when thing got bad. The world would End!!! And GOD has no control over things like love the world is full of empty people that gave up on love. Love is something you can not touch taste or hear or smell. Love is standing firm and holding on till the end of the world. Love is when you would die for someone else. Love is when you stay when you wish to run. Love is when you go to work when you are sick. Love is when it hurt so bad sometimes and you don’t leave. This is how I see the world and I wish for happy endings. I hope someone gets this right. I hope my wife Diane loves me. "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

i love you too. also you can love me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow, you guys both made me cry with these beautiful letters.   They made me want to be the woman you wrote these to.  How fortunate they are to have been loved by you both. Cheryl To my wife Diane I Adore by ronn You are my one and only love I have ever wanted or have had. I sent this email before and prayed before your decision has been finalized. I hope with all my heart it is something I can live with. I do not think you will ever know how much I love you and how I feel inside. If you could touch my heart for one second I would never have to say I love you again. If you could read my mind I would never have to say I love you again. Because I have never left you even when I wanted to sometimes. I never left you when I did not know what to do with you or for you. I stayed through good and bad. For one reason that reason is I do not give my Love To any one, I gave it only to you. When I said I do. I meant it. The world is not a easy place and if every one wanted out when thing got bad. The world would End!!! And GOD has no control over things like love the world is full of empty people that gave up on love. Love is something you can not touch taste or hear or smell. Love is standing firm and holding on till the end of the world. Love is when you would die for someone else. Love is when you stay when you wish to run. Love is when you go to work when you are sick. Love is when it hurt so bad sometimes and you don’t leave. This is how I see the world and I wish for happy endings. I hope someone gets this right. I hope my wife Diane loves me. "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

How do you enjoy a broken heart and not indulging in it. Ronn Maybe you could use some support and not try to support you are not ready for it.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

"We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

To Jenny, Why lie about it? We let each other down. We each gave the other some Damn good reasons not to trust. Now look at us. I defend you in private from the attacks of my friends and family As I’m sure you do for me All the while silently encouraging them to continue As I’m sure you do for me I miss you sometimes I know you were a good friend Sometimes I wonder if you and I and the baby could get together and make it work. And then I see the scar on your forearm From your latest cutting. Sometimes I’m a real fool But I’m not that much of a fool. Maybe that’s too bad. I don’t know. But I know I miss our friendship And the good times we had (we did have them). I watch you flounder through life and I see nothing more or less than the exaggerated reflection of my own flounderings. We got together because we had a lot in common. I wish you’d get a job I wish you’d get off the meds I wish you’d stop needing a shrink I wish you’d never gotten sick. Your illness felt like your trump card in any argument we’d have — I couldn’t insist on much I couldn’t demand much change Not while you were *sick*. I still don’t know how much of your illness was conscious, how much was not. I’ve gotten to the point where I don’t care because it costs too much to care. And how sad is that? I don’t think I’ll ever trust anyone again including myself.

Response:

To my wife Diane I Adore by ronn You are my one and only love I have ever wanted or have had. I sent this email before and prayed before your decision has been finalized. I hope with all my heart it is something I can live with. I do not think you will ever know how much I love you and how I feel inside. If you could touch my heart for one second I would never have to say I love you again. If you could read my mind I would never have to say I love you again. Because I have never left you even when I wanted to sometimes. I never left you when I did not know what to do with you or for you. I stayed through good and bad. For one reason that reason is I do not give my Love To any one, I gave it only to you. When I said I do. I meant it. The world is not a easy place and if every one wanted out when thing got bad. The world would End!!! And GOD has no control over things like love the world is full of empty people that gave up on love. Love is something you can not touch taste or hear or smell. Love is standing firm and holding on till the end of the world. Love is when you would die for someone else. Love is when you stay when you wish to run. Love is when you go to work when you are sick. Love is when it hurt so bad sometimes and you don’t leave. This is how I see the world and I wish for happy endings. I hope someone gets this right. I hope my wife Diane loves me.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

p.s. lane ….anyway, time to move on…other NGs to bedevil… i am glad you stayed you can be a pain but i do thank you for being honest a thoughtful. but you can be a pain. that does not mean i hate you but i just disagree. Ronn

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

"We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

To my wife Diane I Adore:             08 July 2001 Nothing I have said to you has been easy for me. I have expressed my true self to you because I feel the importance for you to know the real me. The past few weeks are the first time I have tried to express to you what is really deep inside me? This is a gift the realest gift I have ever given, I give only to you, this type of gift most people search for and never receive searching this whole  world. The deep down it hurts so bad deepest truth  about oneself to someone else they LOVE more than life. Also by knowing me so I am at your mercy. I have given you every weakness and feeling I have, A wish of mine is to know you so well. That may take a lifetime. If you have the courage please express it to me. I am a simple man but not a simple soul and you like simple things but simple people are no challenge. I wish only to love you! To really love you – I have given you my soul… Forever…And ever…And ever… A gift of love from your husband… A true Love letter. I wish for a happy ending…I have always been faithful Because I find no one as great as you… hand made for you words by ronn. maybe you are right lane

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "We can write the most beautiful poetry with a broken heart.  We can enjoy a broken heart without indulging it."

Response:

Filed under: Loneliness

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