More good news, kiddywinks…On Rejection

Question:

Mathieu78 <nom…@n.com> wrote in message

news:E8pl8.3913$Ff3.650227@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Estrambulation <estrambulat…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20020318115135.17925.00001789@mb-fb.aol.com… > > might explain some of the behavior in this group > > Rejection massively reduces IQ > > Rejection can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to > reason > > analytically, while increasing their aggression, according to new > research. > > "It’s been known for a long time that rejected kids tend to be more > violent and > > aggressive," says Roy Baumeister of the Case Western Reserve University in > > Ohio, who led the work. "But we’ve found that randomly assigning students > to > > rejection experiences can lower their IQ scores and make them aggressive." > > Baumeister’s team used two separate procedures to investigate the effects > of > > rejection. In the first, a group of strangers met, got to know each other, > and > > then separated. Each individual was asked to list which two other people > they > > would like to work with on a task. They were then told they had been > chosen by > > none or all of the others. > > In the second, people taking a personality test were given false feedback, > > telling them they would end up alone in life or surrounded by friends and > > family. > > Aggression scores increased in the rejected groups. But the IQ scores also > > immediately dropped by about 25 per cent, and their analytical reasoning > scores > > dropped by 30 per cent. > > "These are very big effects – the biggest I’ve got in 25 years of > research," > > says Baumeister. "This tells us a lot about human nature. People really > seem > > designed to get along with others, and when you’re excluded, this has > > significant effects." > > Baumeister thinks rejection interferes with a person’s self-control. "To > live > > in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their > > behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become > impulsive > > and self-destructive. You have to use self-control to analyse a problem in > an > > IQ test, for example – and instead, you behave impulsively." > > Baumeister presented his results at the annual conference of the British > > Psychological Society in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. > > Emma Young, Blackpool > It’s true that kids that are rejected at school are-on average- less > intelligent than their more popular peers.That is a correlation.Not a causal > thing. > They are rejected BECAUSE they are less intelligent(among other things). > Down people also are massively rejected…maybe that’s why they are stupid? > Chimpanzee are not as intelligent as most humans…but they never did go to > school…maybe that’s the reason for their inferior > intelligence????????????????????

I might also had that _extremely_ intelligent people are rejected more than average at school(of course when they grow up that change dramatically since intelligent people are extremely in demand in the work market).

Response:

On Mon, 18 Mar 2002 12:09:14 -0500, "Mathieu78" <nom…@n.com> wrote: >Mathieu78 <nom…@n.com> wrote in message >news:E8pl8.3913$Ff3.650227@news20.bellglobal.com… >I might also had that _extremely_ intelligent people are rejected more than >average at school(of course when they grow up that change dramatically since >intelligent people are extremely in demand in the work market).

No they’re not. Connections and work experience are king. You can have a two-speed vibrator for a brain, but as long as you have friends in the company you want to work for, and work experience in the area you want to work in, you can get good work fairly easily. I’ve watched it happen.

Response:

"Mathieu78" <nom…@n.com> wrote in message

news:E8pl8.3913$Ff3.650227@news20.bellglobal.com… > Estrambulation <estrambulat…@aol.com> wrote in message > news:20020318115135.17925.00001789@mb-fb.aol.com… > > might explain some of the behavior in this group > > Rejection massively reduces IQ

[...Procrustean drivel about specious test results deleted...] > It’s true that kids that are rejected at school are-on average- less > intelligent than their more popular peers.

Where’d you get that idea? In my experience, people who were too much different in any way, including those at both ends of the intelligence spectrum, were rejected at school. Dale

Response:

>Where’s the control group?

The control group is the group that didn’t get rejected, which they don’t mention directly but imply by saying "the groups that did get rejected..yada yada"….i’m sure if it was published, then they used some kind of significance test for the sample size, etc.. but still.. I share some of your other concerns, as per my second post on this.. It was kind of a tongue-in-cheek post, I really don’t think much of this kind of experiment based on tests, self-reporting of feelings, thoughts, and opinions, etc..either… But I guess social psychologists gotta make a living too… I hope the "victims" were fully briefed after the experiment Was an interesting read though…

Response:

interesting, thanks for the heads-up. I agree that a person that feels rejected can in their aggression let their analytical abilities deteriorate. I was thinking of it before as pain, fear, or other things they felt because they were rejected, but it’s true that those things are certainly felt in an aggressive way. now we just have to figure out how to patch things up with people when this happens… it’s not so easy a thing to handle

Response:

I’m not that worried about the causation vs correlation thing, but I think the experiment really just shows a short-term emotional effect of being rejected, the people who are rejected are so upset and angry about the rejection that they can’t concentrate on the IQ test and don’t do as well as they did the first time.. Whether everyday life rejections create this effect long term is a much more complicated and hard to test experimentally idea..

Response:

Mathieu78 <nom…@n.com> wrote in message

Yes Mathieu, and also maybe people that are bullied deserve it because they really are inferior. isn’t that right? Moron. Ed

Response:

On 18 Mar 2002 16:51:35 GMT, estrambulat…@aol.com (Estrambulation) wrote: >might explain some of the behavior in this group

[begin review] >Rejection massively reduces IQ >Rejection can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to reason >analytically, while increasing their aggression, according to new research. >"It’s been known for a long time that rejected kids tend to be more violent and >aggressive," says Roy Baumeister of the Case Western Reserve University in

Rejected how? How often? For what? And by whom? You could just as easily say acceptance can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to reason analytically. Ever hear of "mob rule?" >Ohio, who led the work. "But we’ve found that randomly assigning students to >rejection experiences can lower their IQ scores and make them aggressive."

First problem right there. "Students" is a fairly narrow subset of the total population. >Baumeister’s team used two separate procedures to investigate the effects of >rejection. In the first, a group of strangers met, got to know each other, and >then separated. Each individual was asked to list which two other people they >would like to work with on a task. They were then told they had been chosen by >none or all of the others.

Where’s the control group? >In the second, people taking a personality test were given false feedback, >telling them they would end up alone in life or surrounded by friends and >family.

Where’s the control group? Also, both of these "rejections" are very extreme. In the first, they get rejected by EVERYONE. In the second, a supposed authority figure on the subject tells them they’re destined for a LIFETIME of loneliness! That second one goes far beyond mere "rejection," particularly for extroversive people. As an aside, I wonder if any tests were done on the vict–I mean–subjects after they were informed their trust had been breached? I think I’d find those results a lot more interesting than the results about rejection. >Aggression scores increased in the rejected groups.

Bobo doll? :) Seriously, I wonder how they tested aggression. >But the IQ scores also >immediately dropped by about 25 per cent, and their analytical reasoning scores >dropped by 30 per cent.

They felt bad! What about when people feel bad about different things? How does a person’s IQ score suffer after a hard day at work? After they stub a toe? After getting a traffic ticket? After their dog dies? Furthermore, what about euphoria? How does just having had an orgasm affect a person’s IQ score? Or winning first place in a contest? Or getting a new puppy? Do you think the typical guy in this newsgroup would care about the difference between a hollow circle and a filled square if the woman of his dreamed just asked him out? Furthermore, what happens when a rejected person gets accepted? And the most important thing about the study that isn’t even mentioned: HOW LONG DO THESE EFFECTS LAST? >"These are very big effects – the biggest I’ve got in 25 years of research," >says Baumeister. "This tells us a lot about human nature. People really seem >designed to get along with others, and when you’re excluded, this has >significant effects."

Since Baumeister is appealing to authority (himself) here, it’d be helpful to know what other related research he’s done. It’s also help put his rejection study in perspective. >Baumeister thinks rejection interferes with a person’s self-control. "To live >in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their >behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become impulsive >and self-destructive. You have to use self-control to analyse a problem in an >IQ test, for example – and instead, you behave impulsively." >Baumeister presented his results at the annual conference of the British >Psychological Society in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK.

I’d be interested in what his peers think about his conclusions. [end review]

Response:

Mathieu78 <nom…@n.com> wrote in message

news:ubpl8.3915$Ff3.651136@news20.bellglobal.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mathieu78 <nom…@n.com> wrote in message > news:E8pl8.3913$Ff3.650227@news20.bellglobal.com… > > Estrambulation <estrambulat…@aol.com> wrote in message > > news:20020318115135.17925.00001789@mb-fb.aol.com… > > > might explain some of the behavior in this group > > > Rejection massively reduces IQ > > > Rejection can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to > > reason > > > analytically, while increasing their aggression, according to new > > research. > > > "It’s been known for a long time that rejected kids tend to be more > > violent and > > > aggressive," says Roy Baumeister of the Case Western Reserve University > in > > > Ohio, who led the work. "But we’ve found that randomly assigning > students > > to > > > rejection experiences can lower their IQ scores and make them > aggressive." > > > Baumeister’s team used two separate procedures to investigate the > effects > > of > > > rejection. In the first, a group of strangers met, got to know each > other, > > and > > > then separated. Each individual was asked to list which two other people > > they > > > would like to work with on a task. They were then told they had been > > chosen by > > > none or all of the others. > > > In the second, people taking a personality test were given false > feedback, > > > telling them they would end up alone in life or surrounded by friends > and > > > family. > > > Aggression scores increased in the rejected groups. But the IQ scores > also > > > immediately dropped by about 25 per cent, and their analytical reasoning > > scores > > > dropped by 30 per cent. > > > "These are very big effects – the biggest I’ve got in 25 years of > > research," > > > says Baumeister. "This tells us a lot about human nature. People really > > seem > > > designed to get along with others, and when you’re excluded, this has > > > significant effects." > > > Baumeister thinks rejection interferes with a person’s self-control. "To > > live > > > in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their > > > behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become > > impulsive > > > and self-destructive. You have to use self-control to analyse a problem > in > > an > > > IQ test, for example – and instead, you behave impulsively." > > > Baumeister presented his results at the annual conference of the British > > > Psychological Society in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. > > > Emma Young, Blackpool > > It’s true that kids that are rejected at school are-on average- less > > intelligent than their more popular peers.That is a correlation.Not a > causal > > thing. > > They are rejected BECAUSE they are less intelligent(among other things). > > Down people also are massively rejected…maybe that’s why they are > stupid? > > Chimpanzee are not as intelligent as most humans…but they never did go > to > > school…maybe that’s the reason for their inferior > > intelligence???????????????????? > I might also had that…

That’s "add" of course o_0

Response:

might explain some of the behavior in this group Rejection massively reduces IQ Rejection can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to reason analytically, while increasing their aggression, according to new research. "It’s been known for a long time that rejected kids tend to be more violent and aggressive," says Roy Baumeister of the Case Western Reserve University in Ohio, who led the work. "But we’ve found that randomly assigning students to rejection experiences can lower their IQ scores and make them aggressive." Baumeister’s team used two separate procedures to investigate the effects of rejection. In the first, a group of strangers met, got to know each other, and then separated. Each individual was asked to list which two other people they would like to work with on a task. They were then told they had been chosen by none or all of the others. In the second, people taking a personality test were given false feedback, telling them they would end up alone in life or surrounded by friends and family. Aggression scores increased in the rejected groups. But the IQ scores also immediately dropped by about 25 per cent, and their analytical reasoning scores dropped by 30 per cent. "These are very big effects – the biggest I’ve got in 25 years of research," says Baumeister. "This tells us a lot about human nature. People really seem designed to get along with others, and when you’re excluded, this has significant effects." Baumeister thinks rejection interferes with a person’s self-control. "To live in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become impulsive and self-destructive. You have to use self-control to analyse a problem in an IQ test, for example – and instead, you behave impulsively." Baumeister presented his results at the annual conference of the British Psychological Society in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. Emma Young, Blackpool

Response:

Estrambulation <estrambulat…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020318115135.17925.00001789@mb-fb.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> might explain some of the behavior in this group > Rejection massively reduces IQ > Rejection can dramatically reduce a person’s IQ and their ability to reason > analytically, while increasing their aggression, according to new research. > "It’s been known for a long time that rejected kids tend to be more violent and > aggressive," says Roy Baumeister of the Case Western Reserve University in > Ohio, who led the work. "But we’ve found that randomly assigning students to > rejection experiences can lower their IQ scores and make them aggressive." > Baumeister’s team used two separate procedures to investigate the effects of > rejection. In the first, a group of strangers met, got to know each other, and > then separated. Each individual was asked to list which two other people they > would like to work with on a task. They were then told they had been chosen by > none or all of the others. > In the second, people taking a personality test were given false feedback, > telling them they would end up alone in life or surrounded by friends and > family. > Aggression scores increased in the rejected groups. But the IQ scores also > immediately dropped by about 25 per cent, and their analytical reasoning scores > dropped by 30 per cent. > "These are very big effects – the biggest I’ve got in 25 years of research," > says Baumeister. "This tells us a lot about human nature. People really seem > designed to get along with others, and when you’re excluded, this has > significant effects." > Baumeister thinks rejection interferes with a person’s self-control. "To live > in society, people have to have an inner mechanism that regulates their > behaviour. Rejection defeats the purpose of this, and people become impulsive > and self-destructive. You have to use self-control to analyse a problem in an > IQ test, for example – and instead, you behave impulsively." > Baumeister presented his results at the annual conference of the British > Psychological Society in Blackpool, Lancashire, UK. > Emma Young, Blackpool

It’s true that kids that are rejected at school are-on average- less intelligent than their more popular peers.That is a correlation.Not a causal thing. They are rejected BECAUSE they are less intelligent(among other things). Down people also are massively rejected…maybe that’s why they are stupid? Chimpanzee are not as intelligent as most humans…but they never did go to school…maybe that’s the reason for their inferior intelligence???????????????????? Oyyy…go away.

Response:

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