need some opinions

Question:

>Subject: Re: need some opinions >: Marital unhappiness peaks during the teenager years, according to an >: article I just read. p…@chamber.lv wrote: >Article shmarticle. If you take all these "articles I just read" and put >them together, you will get a really huge pile of something, what is >not exactly gold. Almost for every article stating something, you will >easily find at least one stating exactly the opposite.

So what if for every article which states something one will easily find at least one stating exactly the opposite? I don’t imagine that’s applicable here because to the best of my knowledge — and please don’t hesitate to correct me if I’m wrong about this — there are no articles which speak to research who’s results suggest marriages are less stressed and happier when our kids are in their teen years. ************* >So to say, I doubt there is such a connection between having teenagers >and marital unhappiness.

LOL. Time to talk to some parents with teens. God love our kids (and no less during their teen years). But teenagers’ normal adolescent mood swings and antics quite regularly add stress to life at home, and that additional stress can’t help but have an impact on each of us who live there, and from that, an impact on our day to day marital lives. It’s not exactly rocket science and can usually be confirmed by most folks who live with teens. CJ

Response:

chucks5…@aol.com (ChuckS5188) wrote: > I love my youngest daughter deeply and don’t want to >see her every other week(shes 16). I would like to wait 2 years to leave and >told my wife that in the past. she keeps talking about retirement like I am >going to >be here. what is it like to see kids every other week?

It’s managable, and all the more so if our kids are already older — there’s no kicking and screaming at that point; if our kids see us, it’s of their own free will accord and because they themselves are motivated to do so. ********** >Can you still maintain the >relationship?

In a word, yes. ******* >My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis.

Your daughter is a teenager, and it is a rare teen girl of questionable mental health who doesn’t have some friction with her mother. After all, adolescence is a time of is increasingly trying to assert one’s own atonomy. So your daughter might just as likely say this on some days even if her mother was some saintly Holy Mother Of God. In other words, we shouldn’t give too much stock to this, not from a teen, because after all, they’re struggling with their own issues of independence. ********* >I >defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her >eyes >and she won’t touch me between"sex".I even offered to give up sex for regular >hugs but she wouldn’t do it.

If that’s genuinely the case, and if you’re genuinely determined that this marital relationship is going to end one way or the other, then I’m not going to encourage you to delay the enevitable. Life is short and too short for just passively living in limbo if we can at all help it. So if you are indeed going to divorce either one way or the other, then my counsel to you is get on with it man. This waiting two years is not going to make a whole heck of a lot of difference, except to perhaps waste two more years of self-imposed suffering. The sooner you get done with this, the sooner you can get on to hopefully a more happier life. ********* > i am 52 and have never cheated on her ( i have had a >’few" offers. should I leave now? or wait a few years.? I am really sad about the >situation.

Look, if you’re going to be married, then be married and do it with all your heart. But if you’re not going to do it that way, then move on because life is just too damn short for each of us just to sit in a self-imposed limbo. And that we divorce does not mean that we stop being parents. That continues. As as our kids are teens and more and more mobile, we see them less and less anyway, even if we remain married. And there is life after divorce. And there is parenting after divorce. So from where I sit, I just don’t see it as being in anybody’s best interest to just sit in limbo for another two years if we are only talking about just delaying the enevitable. So my counsel to you is get on with it already, for everybody’s sake. Hope that perspective is of some help, CJ

Response:

If you are so compelled to leave – leave now at least for a brief amount of time to get your thoughts about where you want to be. Whatever you do – don’t get involved in an adulterous relationship before leaving/divorcing your wife. It only muddies already cloudy water. My brother in law could have wrote this email – except that he already confessed to his affair, was kicked out and his 16 year old daughter has not spoken to him since last October. He now lives with his mother in a tiny 2 bedroom house and her 12 cats. His big plan was to wait until his daughter was 18 and ask his wife for a divorce (My husband & I have known about this for 10+ years). He got involved with someone else (this one is no prize either, but loneliness and desperation will drive people to do things that are out of character). He and his wife who had little communication before he left, now have none. Neither have filed for divorce and what could have been a sad, but amicable separation/divorce is now a big mess with betrayal added to the mix. Waiting for the right time is wrong. If you feel you need to be out of your situation, do it now and do it respectfully. JW — "ChuckS5188" <chucks5…@aol.com> wrote in message

news:20020709113219.01710.00000008@mb-ma.aol.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I have been married 27 years. Have 2 children at home 16 and 14. my marriage > has been rough for me last 20 years. I didn’t leave my wife because I really > loved her and put up with some things (sex weekly in the early years -extending > to 1X > a month to no sex for 9 months to about twice a month now. Sex is a chore and > I have quit bugging her about it. she has told me in the past that she hates > sex. > She has resigned herself (i think) to 2x month because she told me that "I get > mad if I don’t get it"> I don’t feel that she loves me (she never used to get > me anything for my birthday until my kids were old enough to notice. (once got > socks and underwear for christmas). She gets really mad when I buy something- > bought a boat for 8000 used it 12 years and sold it for 3000. she said I > "WASTED OUR MONEY"she refers to the house as "hers" and "her bedroom".If I had > nochilden at > home I would leave now. I love my youngest daughter deeply and don’t want to > see her every other week(shes 16). I would like to wait 2 years to leave and > told my wife that in the past. she keeps talking about retirement like I am > going to > be here. what is it like to see kids every other week? Can you still maintain > the > relationship?My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis. I > defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her > eyes > and she won’t touch me between"sex".I even offered to give up sex for regular > hugs but she wouldn’t do it. i am 52 and have never cheated on her ( i have had > a > ‘few" offers. should I leave now? or wait a few years.? I am really sad about > the > situation. chucks5…@aol.com

Response:

I once read a book named "Too Good to Leave, Too Bad to Stay" by Mira Kirshenbaum that I found helpful under similar circumstances. Perhaps it would be helpful to you, too… S.B ChuckS5188 <chucks5…@aol.com> wrote in message

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -wmars…@mtholyoke.edu (Wendy Marsden) writes: > ChuckS5188 (chucks5…@aol.com) wrote: > > My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis. I > > defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her > > eyes > Your poor sweet baby girl! How horrid it must be to have such a bitch for > a mother! Oh, no, wait, that’s YOUR line. > My line is to tell you that EVERY mother and daughter fights and your wife > knows damn well that you prefer your daughter over her. She’s most likely > quite pissed off about it, too. > Get some joint counseling. Your old age is going to really suck if you > throw away all your life’s achievements hoping to find happiness from some > outside source. My advice is to hang in there and see if you can salvage > this marriage.

Whatever his achievements may be, this marriage doesn’t sound like one of them. What is there to salvage? Doug

Response:

Doug Anderson (ethelthe…@yahoo.com) wrote: > Whatever his achievements may be, this marriage doesn’t sound like one > of them. What is there to salvage?

Marital unhappiness peaks during the teenager years, according to an article I just read. He’s got two teen-agers. Being unhappy doesn’t sound like it’s inevitable in the future to me. Getting a divorce now means unheaval for the children just at an age when they’re at serious risk for some big-time loser choices. Getting a divorce means less access to grandkids later in life, as well as a lot of financial setbacks that will make whatever retirement you planned much less secure and enjoyable. Then, of course, there’s the financial trauma to your current life when you have to maintain two households instead of one. Heck, getting a divorce doesn’t exactly make it likely that a 50-ish guy is going to get sex more than twice a month, either. What’s NOT to salvage? Wendy

Response:

wmars…@mtholyoke.edu (Wendy Marsden) writes: > Doug Anderson (ethelthe…@yahoo.com) wrote: > > Whatever his achievements may be, this marriage doesn’t sound like one > > of them. What is there to salvage? > Marital unhappiness peaks during the teenager years, according to an > article I just read. He’s got two teen-agers. Being unhappy doesn’t > sound like it’s inevitable in the future to me.

But his description is that the problems wih his marriage have always been there, and that he hasn’t ever been happy. He begins by saying the marriage has been rough for him for 20 years. > Getting a divorce now means unheaval for the children just at an age when > they’re at serious risk for some big-time loser choices. Getting a > divorce means less access to grandkids later in life, as well as a lot of > financial setbacks that will make whatever retirement you planned much > less secure and enjoyable. Then, of course, there’s the financial trauma > to your current life when you have to maintain two households instead of > one. Heck, getting a divorce doesn’t exactly make it likely that a 50-ish > guy is going to get sex more than twice a month, either.

Yes, I know all the arguments against divorce. > What’s NOT to salvage?

Well, some believe that one should always stay married for the kids sake. I disagree with that. He’s had a lousy relationship for 20 years. That is a lot of time. Why should he continue to be in a lousy marriage forever? It doesn’t sound like his marriage was ever anything good (at least from the description he wrote) so that is why it seems to me that there is nothing to salvage. I certainly wouldn’t want to stay married to someone who acts as if she dislikes me. Even more so if she has always acted that way. Doug

Response:

Wendy Marsden <wmars…@mtholyoke.edu> wrote:

: Doug Anderson (ethelthe…@yahoo.com) wrote: :> Whatever his achievements may be, this marriage doesn’t sound like one :> of them. What is there to salvage? : Marital unhappiness peaks during the teenager years, according to an : article I just read. He’s got two teen-agers. Being unhappy doesn’t : sound like it’s inevitable in the future to me. Article shmarticle. If you take all these "articles I just read" and put them together, you will get a really huge pile of something, what is not exactly gold. Almost for every article stating something, you will easily find at least one stating exactly the opposite. So to say, I doubt there is such a connection between having teenagers and marital unhappiness. : Getting a divorce now means unheaval for the children just at an age when : they’re at serious risk for some big-time loser choices. Of course, seeing dear Dad being treated as doormat is superior. Kids mostly notice such things. : Getting a : divorce means less access to grandkids later in life, Said access will depend on parents of said grandkids, right? What this has to do with divorce? : as well as a lot of : financial setbacks that will make whatever retirement you planned much : less secure and enjoyable. Being married to OP’s wife for sure will make any retirement enjoyable as little as possible. If you are not talking about graveyard, that is. : Then, of course, there’s the financial trauma : to your current life when you have to maintain two households instead of : one. Bit more, bit less – why worry? Since when money can outweight lack of life? : Heck, getting a divorce doesn’t exactly make it likely that a 50-ish : guy is going to get sex more than twice a month, either. If "mercy fuck" so dear husband "won’t get mad" qualifies as sex… Nope, I’d prefer to go without. : What’s NOT to salvage? Missery, loneliness, unhappiness, lack of intimacy, damaged self esteem… This list goes on and on. Timo — Chamber-pot is spamtrap. Contact me tiwoll at gmx dot net.

Response:

ChuckS5188 (chucks5…@aol.com) wrote: > My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis. I > defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her > eyes

Your poor sweet baby girl! How horrid it must be to have such a bitch for a mother! Oh, no, wait, that’s YOUR line. My line is to tell you that EVERY mother and daughter fights and your wife knows damn well that you prefer your daughter over her. She’s most likely quite pissed off about it, too. Get some joint counseling. Your old age is going to really suck if you throw away all your life’s achievements hoping to find happiness from some outside source. My advice is to hang in there and see if you can salvage this marriage. — Wendy

Response:

I have been married 27 years. Have 2 children at home 16 and 14. my marriage has been rough for me last 20 years. I didn’t leave my wife because I really loved her and put up with some things (sex weekly in the early years -extending to 1X a month to no sex for 9 months to about twice a month now. Sex is a chore and I have quit bugging her about it. she has told me in the past that she hates sex. She has resigned herself (i think) to 2x month because she told me that "I get mad if I don’t get it"> I don’t feel that she loves me (she never used to get me anything for my birthday until my kids were old enough to notice. (once got socks and underwear for christmas). She gets really mad when I buy something- bought a boat for 8000 used it 12 years and sold it for 3000. she said I "WASTED OUR MONEY"she refers to the house as "hers" and "her bedroom".If I had nochilden at home I would leave now. I love my youngest daughter deeply and don’t want to see her every other week(shes 16). I would like to wait 2 years to leave and told my wife that in the past. she keeps talking about retirement like I am going to be here. what is it like to see kids every other week? Can you still maintain the relationship?My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis. I defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her eyes and she won’t touch me between"sex".I even offered to give up sex for regular hugs but she wouldn’t do it. i am 52 and have never cheated on her ( i have had a ‘few" offers. should I leave now? or wait a few years.? I am really sad about the situation. chucks5…@aol.com

Response:

"ChuckS5188" <chucks5…@aol.com> wrote in message

You may not be in a situation where you only saw your daughter every other week. If she’s 16 now, and likely to be 17 before the divorce could even be totally finalized, then chances are that the judge would give her a fairly good say on where she lives or how often she wants to see you. Also, at her age she’s not exactly helpless. She’s old enough to pick up the phone and call you or come see you herself in between visits.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <20020709113219.01710.00000…@mb-ma.aol.com>, chucks5…@aol.com (ChuckS5188) wrote: >I have been married 27 years. Have 2 children at home 16 and 14. my marriage >has been rough for me last 20 years. I didn’t leave my wife because I really >loved her and put up with some things (sex weekly in the early years -extending >to 1X >a month to no sex for 9 months to about twice a month now. Sex is a chore and >I have quit bugging her about it. she has told me in the past that she hates >sex. >She has resigned herself (i think) to 2x month because she told me that "I get >mad if I don’t get it"> I don’t feel that she loves me (she never used to get >me anything for my birthday until my kids were old enough to notice. (once got >socks and underwear for christmas). She gets really mad when I buy something- >bought a boat for 8000 used it 12 years and sold it for 3000. she said I >"WASTED OUR MONEY"she refers to the house as "hers" and "her bedroom".If I had >nochilden at >home I would leave now. I love my youngest daughter deeply and don’t want to >see her every other week(shes 16). I would like to wait 2 years to leave and >told my wife that in the past. she keeps talking about retirement like I am >going to >be here. what is it like to see kids every other week? Can you still maintain >the >relationship?My daughter tells me that "mom is a bitch" on a regular basis. I >defend my wife to maintain the household but I AGREE. I see no love in her >eyes >and she won’t touch me between"sex".I even offered to give up sex for regular >hugs but she wouldn’t do it. i am 52 and have never cheated on her ( i have had >a >’few" offers. should I leave now? or wait a few years.? I am really sad about >the >situation. chucks5…@aol.com

You might find some answers if you post this in alt.support.divorce I’ll share some brief ones here. Yes, you can still maintain a relationship with children after separation/divorce, especially when they are older children. My sons are 16 & 19 now, and i separated from their dad 4 1/2 years ago (they live with him). I’ve stayed nearby, remained amicable with their father, and see them regularly without having to adhere to a rigid schedule. Divorce isn’t easy, and it does hurt everyone involved. But so does a hostile or cold marriage. As for the wife and sex and all that, if you’ve exhausted all attempts at saving the marriage, counseling, etc., yes, there is life after divorce. I am 45 and my husband of almost 3 months is 49. We started dating 4 years ago and we still have a great (frequent) sex life, are best friends, and we even hug all the time. If you do split up, be prepared to give yourself an adjustment period before getting involved again after your long-term marriage.

Response:

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