Lonely Loneliness

No Talent

Question:

On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:10:40 GMT, Ne…@void.net (Nevyn) wrote: >This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day.   >By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >accept their limits

FULL STOP RIGHT THERE. It depends on who you are and what you want out of life.  I recently saw some guy who broke or tied some record at some track event.  Only thing was, this guy had no legs.  He ran with artificial legs.   >and get on with doing the things they are good at?

Get on with the things you enjoy and the things that bring meaning to your life.   >Imagine >the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   >Any thoughts?

I believe that a fundamental aspect of being human is the ability to learn, change, and grow in our abilities.  Only the human can imagine a future, and then take steps to see it come about.  You’re potential is much higher than your ability.  And there is more information today about how to become socially adept than there ever was before.  Being social is a skill.  And like any other skill, some people will have learned their lessons naturally, and others need to learn it later in life.   Regards, David

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -.. wrote in message <34e7fcee.26917…@news.supernews.com>… >On Thu, 12 Feb 1998 07:26:28 -0500, "ric" <w…@usa.net> wrote: >>.. wrote in message <34e2e029.19552…@news.supernews.com>… >>thank you, I hope others who’ve ready this book speak up… perhaps the >>good things I’ve heard about it should not have me touting it, >>especially since I have not read it >>ric >I should have put a smiley face after that comment. I didnt mean to >imply that it was a bad book for people here to read. Its an important >book in that it shows just how important socialization skills are not >just in your personal life, but in your work too. However, it is a >study and not a self-help book. Though reading it may help some people >realize that their personal problems maybe having a large impact in >their careers and academic life etc. I just meant that most of the >people here seem to be concentating on their personal life – but this >book seems to imply that poor socialization skills make you a 100% >loser , not just a loser in your personal life!

thank you for this clarification and for sharing your knowledge with us >     Im interested whether specific things help people here. Ive heard >often in the past that beta blockers helped people who got nervous. >I saw a bit a long time ago on a violinist who got unbearably nervous >when she played in public. She says she was "cured" after taking beta >blockers before her performances. I think beta blockers are supposed >to block the release of adrenalin and is prescribed for people with >hypertension. I might be totally wrong on this.

I don’t have the specifics myself, but I’ve seen several people here who have some knowledge about mood stabalizing medicaions, hopefully they are still reading and will speak up on this point… >   Ive seen a bit about a psychologist on one of those news shows who >claimed he could cure most phobias by thumping on your chest – it was >something ridiculous like that. He had a book – I forget what the >title was. It was on 20/20 or Prime Time or Dateline – years ago. They >showed several people with agoraphobia and fear of heights – who were >virtually cured – just like that! What ever happened to him? Was it >bogus?

don’t remember the show, but there are all sorts of odd "therapist" out there… the whole field of psychology is not an exact science… in fact, it’s as much an art as a science… the medical side, psychiatry, focuses more on the science of bio-chemical reactions in the brain and body… but psychology and other therapist are based on theories… a lot of educated guesses (and some not not very educated guesses   … to me it’s all about exposing the truth within one’s self – the true motives and desires… and then exploring what we choose to do about getting what we want… and what we might do  better toward that end… so basically, if hanging upside down by one foot while playing Dixie on the harmonica gets you in touch with the truth inside of you, then hey, do it… and then follow through on the rest of the process but there are plenty of people, "professionals" out there who are not in the job to really help as much as they are in it for the money… I figure since thumping on the chest doesn’t seem to have caught on much in the culture (at least not literally LOL   I’d figure the guy wasn’t very successful… but who knows, it might have worked for some people hope to see you sharing some more, ..   ric     "it’s got to be the going, not the getting there… that’s good"                                                           —  Harry Chapin

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -.. wrote in message <34e2e029.19552…@news.supernews.com>… >>>Funny you should mention this.  A friend just introduced me >>>to a book on this very topic called "Emotional Intelligence." >>>All about how social skills are much more important than IQ >>>in determining how people will get along in later life. >>>The author would disagree with your comment here that they >>>are all predetermined and not subject to learning or change. >>>In fact one of his theses is that they can and must be taught >>>as early as possible, in the home and in school and daycare, >>>so when kids grow up they will be more socially adept. >>>But I would agree it is always harder to learn things later >>>than getting in on the ground floor when we are still open. >>>I really appreciate your bringing this to our group forum >>>as it certainly has a lot to do with our topic here. >>>Lauren >        This topic does seemto be somewhat relevant to people who feel >they are deficient in socially interacting with people – but Ithink it >was mainly written to show that success in life wasnt dependant – as >you cite , primarily on IQ. Since the 80’s there has been a renewed >controversy in this area. Its especially relevant now due to the >emphasis on intelligence , tech skills in this new economy and where >there has been a kind of shift to a meritocracy, a kind of social >darwinism based on intelligence at the same time multi-culturalsim and >diversity advocates attack the traditional measures of "intelligence" >as being culturally biased.. The debate reached a head with  the >publication of the "Bell Curve" which hinted at racially based IQ >differentials and that IQ was the best measure of intelligence – an >explosive subject. Obviously the U.S. has been going in the opposite >direction – de-emphasizing IQ claiming it was meaningless or >race/culturally-biased. >      The concept of social intelligence continues in that vein and >stresses that traditional measures of intelligence arent good >predictors for success in later life. Ironically ,though it may give >you hope in that it claims you can change your ways, the claim that >the primary indicator of a persons success is the degree of >socialization skills seems to be the worst message you could give to a >sub like this!  Its like telling someone who is bald – the primary >factor in attaining success is how much hair you have!

thank you, I hope others who’ve ready this book speak up… perhaps the good things I’ve heard about it should not have me touting it, especially since I have not read it ric

Response:

On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:10:40 GMT, Ne…@void.net (Nevyn) wrote: >This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day.   >By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   >Any thoughts?

Agreed.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Lauren wrote in message <34E2BA29.7…@erols.com>… >Nevyn wrote: >> This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >> other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >> painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >> finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >> others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >> this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >> no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day. >> By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >> accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >> the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >> relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business. >> Any thoughts? >Funny you should mention this.  A friend just introduced me >to a book on this very topic called "Emotional Intelligence." >All about how social skills are much more important than IQ >in determining how people will get along in later life. >The author would disagree with your comment here that they >are all predetermined and not subject to learning or change. >In fact one of his theses is that they can and must be taught >as early as possible, in the home and in school and daycare, >so when kids grow up they will be more socially adept. >But I would agree it is always harder to learn things later >than getting in on the ground floor when we are still open. >I really appreciate your bringing this to our group forum >as it certainly has a lot to do with our topic here. >Lauren

heard a lot of great things about the book and from excerpts I’ve read, I look forward to reading it too… thanks for bringing it up and it opens a whole new thread we might explore – what books have you read that have inspired you or touched you or done something more than just pass before your eyes?… doesn’t have to be like a self-help or "enlightening" book, any book you enjoyed… perhaps in sharing your experience with a book you read, you will help someone find answers they seek thanks again Lauren, for suggesting this path ric P.S… or music "I’m gonna’ sit and watch the web, that you will build this day Will it be a thread of love you weave, it’s yours to show the way"    –John Lodge, Eyes Of A Child Part II–

Response:

Nevyn wrote: > This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with > other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like > painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t > finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and > others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture > this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the > no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day. > By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just > accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine > the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at > relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business. > Any thoughts?

Funny you should mention this.  A friend just introduced me to a book on this very topic called "Emotional Intelligence." All about how social skills are much more important than IQ in determining how people will get along in later life. The author would disagree with your comment here that they are all predetermined and not subject to learning or change. In fact one of his theses is that they can and must be taught as early as possible, in the home and in school and daycare, so when kids grow up they will be more socially adept. But I would agree it is always harder to learn things later than getting in on the ground floor when we are still open. I really appreciate your bringing this to our group forum as it certainly has a lot to do with our topic here. Lauren

Response:

Hi  two thirds of an ellipse just welcoming you here and aggreeing with your thoughts… for a man without legs, it is not a waste of time to travel… for a woman without breasts, it is not a wste of time to feed a child… for a child who is blind, is is not a waste of time to develop all the other senses and share… maybe some extreme examples, but trying to say the lack of social skills can become an excuse to give up on sharing with others and finding a satisfying relationship… but I believe life is about sharing and no matter what the obstacles, sharing is not a waste of time… ultimately, I think you’re right, Nevyn… accept yourself and get on with life, but not if that means giving up satisfaction… for everything changes and life is growth and learning and climbing mountains (or small hills   … get on with life, but don’t close doors or give up on sharing… often sharing comes when we are not looking or expecting, as long as we are open to it… I believe it is a matter of expectations and reasonable goals, as  .. expressed well… we must learn to be satisfied with what we can do and focus on our abilities… beauty, and taste, and satisfaction is in the eye and mind of the beholder… to some, a peanut butter, honey, and banana sandwich is a work of art   … personally, I’d choose a sloppy veggie-cheese lasagna and an overflowing hot fudge sundae over pate fois grass, caviar, escargo, and truffles *anyday* ric (who just got hungry  "If one advances confidently in the direction of her dreams   and endeavors to live the life which she has imagined,   she will meet with a success unexpected in common hours."                                          ~~ Henry David Thoreau ~~ .. wrote in message <34e175e4.40924…@news2.ibm.net>… >On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:10:40 GMT, Ne…@void.net (Nevyn) wrote: >>This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >>other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent,

like >>painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >>finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >>others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >>no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day. >>By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >>accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >>the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >>relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business. >>Any thoughts? >Well , you are obviously partially right. Its quite self-evident that >some people have a gift for social interaction – making friends, >etc.etc. But its not like the skill of painting or playing the piano. >Its more like eating. There are gourmets, people knowledgeable about >wines and master chefs. However, you  may not be a gourmet or even a >passable cook , but you still have to eat! >     Sure there are a few genuine loners who actually prefer to be >isolated, but 98% of us dont. It doesnt matter if you are great or not >, but you probably need social interaction. Now when you say you waste >too much time on it, that depends on your goals. If you are one of >those people who isnt gifted in attracting friends and lovers – it is >a waste of time to dream and pine away at not being the big man/woman >in your village, the one which everyone gravitates to, attracting the >most sought after women or men. That probably is a waste of time. But >like the man who may not be a gourmet or master chef – but does manage >to get through each day with three passable meals, I think it isnt >unreasonable to expect a certain minimum level of social interaction >for everyone. >     If you arent reaching it – there can be so many factors , even >besides just personailty. Certainly affluence, power, physical >attractiveness,  overall talent, intelligence, taste, cultural >influences, age, environment, etc.  - the general predicament you find > yourself , all play a role in how easy it is to meet and attract >others. Even if you arent "talented" at attracting others – you can >work on the external factors as well as the personality factors to at >least get the minimum social interaction – which is your right as a >human being (as far as Im concerned) to receive.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being >with >>other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >>painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >>finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >>others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >>this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >>no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some >day.   >>By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >>accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? >Imagine >>the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts >at >>relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   >>Any thoughts?

Well, ya know what?  I just thought of something else by reading what you’ve posted.  I think that everyone is born, who is born with a gift, such as painting, social interaction, or whatever, just starts out in life like that. That is just where you start.  But you can let that go if you’d like, and not use it to your advantage.  Or you can use it, and say you’ve always been good at it.  But that was just something given to you.  Just something that occured.   Of course, there are so many more occurences in your life as well.  You can easily learn something, just as you are born with it.  And you can let it go, or use it to your advantage.  So i think that if you are born to be good with people, of course you will use that because that is what you know, and what is in you.  But, if you don’t want to, you can always let it go.  Therefore, I feel you can also  develop this in life, and then use it to your advantage.  It just seems easy for people to stick with the things they are born with, just like anything else  is, just like any habit is.  Sometimes, it’s actually hard to let go.  And, then when you build a reputation, it seems even harder.  And then you start saying that  it is you, but it doesn’t have to be.  I think that anything is like this, nothing is necessarily permanent, so do you what you want to do, change  if you want to, hold on if you wish, and don’t be held down by anything.  What you are born with is simply like saying, "This is what I’ve learned today."     Sorry to ramble, I shall depart, Of course i’ll probably get lots of criticism on this Chris

Response:

No criticism from me! You go, girl!

Response:

Read something the other day on the net, went someething like this, my apologies to whomever wrote it, if it’s a little misquoted. When you compare yourself to others it will make you vain and bitter, because there will allways be greater, and lesser than you. But that’s OK, vanity makes you interresting to look at. And bitterness makes you more realistic. On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:10:40 GMT, Ne…@void.net (Nevyn) wrote: >This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day.   >By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   >Any thoughts?

Socially Impared? What’s next in this age of polictical correctness. Visually impared = Blind. Vertically impared = Short. Sociall impared = ???? Please fill in the ???, I would like to know what Socially impared means to you.

Response:

oh man, I’m so glad Walter found these pearls of wisom and a really *great* analogy to respond with positivity to this theory… Nevyn, welcome to the group and yes, you may be right that some have inherently more extroverted personalities and therfore get more practice at social skills in infancy and early learning years when everything’s so much easier to learn (there’s been decent studies to support this)… but- BIG BUT  … listen to Walter and come back and share and practice written sharing skills (you already express yourself well in words) and let’s try to encourage each other to believe we can overcome our inherent personalities and the slower social learning curve we might have taken… yes?… please?… see ya soon?… gonna go now before I get sillier ric      "there is no teacher who can teach anything new,       but just help us to remember the things we always knew"                                                        - author forgotten  ;) I was recently reminded that Richard Bach wrote very similar words in his book "Illusions"… I leave the quote as it is because I did not remember at the time and wrote the words above from my own mind, or memory – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Nevyn wrote in message <6bonko$am0$1@nnrp1>… >This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day. >By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business. >Any thoughts?

Response:

Hi Ne…@void.net (Nevyn)  and all lurkers on alt.support.loneliness ! On Tue, 10 Feb 1998 05:10:40 GMT, You wrote: >This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with >other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like >painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t >finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and >others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture >this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the >no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day.   >By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just >accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine >the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at >relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   >Any thoughts?

Oh … have You ever seen disabled mouth or toe painters ? Even they can learn the ability, the skills … though it’s much harder for them to do that, than for any of us lucky people with 2 reasonable claws . So, in this case I bet strong desire outweighs lacking "abilities" by far. Expressing ourselves by means of communicating through words or artwork seems to be one of the strongest desires we have – so it’s even Yours, as expressed here. And am I right to think You do it in order to find someone who responds, isn’t it ? One may have deficits here  … and a outstanding talent there. So it’s best practice to proceed on evolving the given talents, using them for expressing ourselves – but also keep our deficits in mind and catch up to at least a level of skills which is needed to do daily stuff. In no case lack of talents/abilities/skills here or there should sneak into Your mind as an excuse for _not_doing_anything_at_all_. Good Luck – show Your talents, they are valuable ! ————— All life is chemistry, and thoughts are the catalysts ICQ #4918962 —————————— Due to excessive amounts of UCE, I had to edit my email address. Apologize the inconvenience. Please remove the obvious to reply, thanks.

Response:

This may seem sort of strange, but lately I’ve begun to think that being with other people and maintaining relationships is a sort of inborn talent, like painting.  And that just as there are Michelangelos and people that can’t finger paint, similarly there are some people whom everybody loves and others that have no ability at all to make and keep friends.  And to torture this comparison just a little more, it is often considered unkind to let the no-talent artist delude themselves into thinking they will be great some day.   By the same token, wouldn’t it make sense for the socially impaired to just accept their limits and get on with doing the things they are good at? Imagine the energy and time they could save simply by ceasing any pointless efforts at relating to people on a level beyond that needed for their daily business.   Any thoughts?

Response:

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