Lonely Loneliness

Reasons For Marriage

Question:

the human female has that sneaky concealed ovulation thing going on and perpetual sexual receptiveness

hey, i thought guys are always complaining that their woman ISN"T "receptive" enough!     (just kidding, here)

Response:

I agree with everything you have said here except by nature human males are the providers and protectors because the human female has that sneaky concealed ovulation thing going on and perpetual sexual receptiveness (unlike most other female mammals that have a period of estrous) and their mates must guard against being cuckolded.  If he hangs around, he will have sex anytime he wants and she is less likely to become impregnated by an interloper, in exchange he shares his resources and their offspring have a selective advantage over those of couples who do not share resources.

"Sharing resources" does not equal "primary breadwinner." In all cultures known to anthropology, men and women share resources. In only certain adaptations (plow-based intensive agriculture primarily, but also some nomadic pastoralists–both of which are relatively recent adaptations) do men do the majority of the "providing." (Humorous aside–an increasing number of my students, in their essays, refer to men as "breadmakers" rather than "breadwinners." I blame Oster.)

Response:

I don’t think I ever used the term breadwinner.  But throw out welfare, child support etc. and see how many single mothers raise healthy children with desirable values.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I agree with everything you have said here except by nature human males are the providers and protectors because the human female has that sneaky concealed ovulation thing going on and perpetual sexual receptiveness (unlike most other female mammals that have a period of estrous) and their mates must guard against being cuckolded.  If he hangs around, he will have sex anytime he wants and she is less likely to become impregnated by an interloper, in exchange he shares his resources and their offspring have a selective advantage over those of couples who do not share resources. "Sharing resources" does not equal "primary breadwinner." In all cultures known to anthropology, men and women share resources. In only certain adaptations (plow-based intensive agriculture primarily, but also some nomadic pastoralists–both of which are relatively recent adaptations) do men do the majority of the "providing." (Humorous aside–an increasing number of my students, in their essays, refer to men as "breadmakers" rather than "breadwinners." I blame Oster.)

Response:

And how many folks here have "gone with nature" (I’m assuming by that you mean the "male breadwinner" marriage) and gotten divorced? BTW, I’m sure I’ve had the discussion with you as to why the "male breadwinner" model of marriage is most likely *not* human nature. And, since if I recall your strongest area of knowledge is in animal behavior, you should of course be familiar with the fact that the "male provider" role is extremely rare in the animal kingdom. But let me state it in simple terms, once again. Having the male do most or all of the "providing" is not an arrangement you typically see except in peasant societies that have adopted plow agriculture, and the industrialized societies that arose from them (so, in the grand scheme of things, probably has only occurred in the past 5-6,000 years, which is a drop in the bucket of the grand scheme of human evolution). In societies with a lower degree of technology, women almost always "provide" as much, or more, to the basic subsistence needs of their families than men do. "Primitive" societies don’t have the luxury of supporting housewives; women in such cultures work as hard or harder than men to simply feed their families. It may go against our "cultural nature"–a few thousand years is a long time in terms of "cultural evolution". But it’s not rooted in our biology.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope because I, like you, went against nature. Nope. Did yours? And did it work out?

Response:

You know what Kathy?  You ought to be a teacher! Oh yeah, we are, aren’t we? Back to the Kahlua….sorry for the interruption!   LOL! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – But let me state it in simple terms, once again.

Response:

I agree with everything you have said here except by nature human males are the providers and protectors because the human female has that sneaky concealed ovulation thing going on and perpetual sexual receptiveness (unlike most other female mammals that have a period of estrous) and their mates must guard against being cuckolded.  If he hangs around, he will have sex anytime he wants and she is less likely to become impregnated by an interloper, in exchange he shares his resources and their offspring have a selective advantage over those of couples who do not share resources.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And how many folks here have "gone with nature" (I’m assuming by that you mean the "male breadwinner" marriage) and gotten divorced? BTW, I’m sure I’ve had the discussion with you as to why the "male breadwinner" model of marriage is most likely *not* human nature. And, since if I recall your strongest area of knowledge is in animal behavior, you should of course be familiar with the fact that the "male provider" role is extremely rare in the animal kingdom. But let me state it in simple terms, once again. Having the male do most or all of the "providing" is not an arrangement you typically see except in peasant societies that have adopted plow agriculture, and the industrialized societies that arose from them (so, in the grand scheme of things, probably has only occurred in the past 5-6,000 years, which is a drop in the bucket of the grand scheme of human evolution). In societies with a lower degree of technology, women almost always "provide" as much, or more, to the basic subsistence needs of their families than men do. "Primitive" societies don’t have the luxury of supporting housewives; women in such cultures work as hard or harder than men to simply feed their families. It may go against our "cultural nature"–a few thousand years is a long time in terms of "cultural evolution". But it’s not rooted in our biology. Nope because I, like you, went against nature. Nope. Did yours? And did it work out?

Response:

Wow — your ex had a job? Barb

Mine didn’t…. and then when he did get one, he was fired within weeks …. Cal~

Response:

Geez Lauri, you got his Datsun? Sounds like you really took him to the cleaners, LOL.

Oh, I didn’t GET the Datsun.  What I got was the ability to learn to shift a car soley by sound, and to strategically be at the front of the line when the stoplight turned so that, when I turned on the key, I wouldn’t hit anyone when the car leapt forward (because it had to be started in gear!).  On payday, the ex fixed the clutch and, along with a battery kindly provided by my Dad, that car got us by for many years. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

Wow — your ex had a job? Barb

Yeah, we both got jobs a couple of weeks before our wedding.  We paid an employement agency to get them–mine was selling men’s clothing in a mall, and his was selling fine jewelry.  He only had one suit, so we had to be creative with changing ties frequently.  :) Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

You know, Lauri, I would bet far more women have stories like yours than the ‘marry for money’ stories.  Most of us marry for the same reason… we meet someone and just want to be with them.

That’s right……know why I married him?  I married him because he could make me laugh.  Because he was funny and warm and generous, and because I knew that he loved me and I loved him.  It was just pure luck that he also turned out to be a hard-working man and a great Dad to his boys.  Things didn’t work out, and that’s both our faults, but it had nothing to do with money. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

You know, Lauri, I would bet far more women have stories like yours than the ‘marry for money’ stories.  Most of us marry for the same reason… we meet someone and just want to be with them. That’s right……know why I married him?  I married him because he could make me laugh.  Because he was funny and warm and generous, and because I knew that he loved me and I loved him.  

Well, you know, that’s about as good as it gets.  That’s what most of us want. It was just pure luck that he also turned out to be a hard-working man and a great Dad to his boys.  Things didn’t work out, and that’s both our faults, but it had nothing to do with money.

Sometimes it just doesn’t work.. but you had the right motivation. So did I, and mine didn’t work either. Guess what.. I’ll try it again.   And I’ll be doing it for the same reasons you first gave above when I do. Casey You can’t drive forward while looking in the rear view mirror… you’ll hit something.

Response:

Nope. Did yours?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And did it work out? Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life. Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole. Your ex had a car *and* a job when you got married? Damn, I’m jealous! You little gold-digger, you!

Response:

Nope because I, like you, went against nature.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Nope. Did yours? And did it work out? (666bigsurf666) Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life. Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole. Your ex had a car *and* a job when you got married? Damn, I’m jealous! You little gold-digger, you!

Response:

Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life.  

Geez Lauri, you got his Datsun? Sounds like you really took him to the cleaners, LOL. Larry —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–==  Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–

Response:

    Did you remember to pull that pin first? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me that men and women generally marry for different reasons. That about 50% of marriages end in divorce might be a bit of a clue that if we better understood why our spouse-to-be was REALLY marrying us, we’d either run away at 1,000 mph (less marriages) or at least be better prepared for the conflicts that will inevitably arise. Now there is a considerable body of research on this subject, and I don’t intend to add substantially to it other than to make some observations. Some won’t like what I have to say. Men Marry For Love – Most of us do. We marry for romantic reasons at least as much as women do, and I’d say much more. We have to, because IMHO we have less reasons to than women. Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. <SNIP OK, now you can all have a shot at me ….but be warned…I shoot back! Big Surf

– Cry havoc! and let loose the dogs of war, That this foul deed shall smell above the earth. With carrion men, groaning for burial. – William Shakespeare (1564-1616), British dramatist, poet. Antony, in Julius Caesar, act 3, sc. 1.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life. Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole.

Your ex had a car *and* a job when you got married? Damn, I’m jealous! You little gold-digger, you!

Response:

And did it work out?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life. Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

And did it work out?

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life. Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole. Your ex had a car *and* a job when you got married? Damn, I’m jealous! You little gold-digger, you!

Response:

Too bad you don’t get to know un-superficial women, or maybe you’d realize this is wrong.  As long as you seek out the "model" types, you probably are coming up with golddiggers. I didn’t marry my husband for money.  I don’t need money.   He didn’t marry me for my looks, i’m certain he could have "done much better" if that were all he wanted.   – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me that men and women generally marry for different reasons. That about 50% of marriages end in divorce might be a bit of a clue that if we better understood why our spouse-to-be was REALLY marrying us, we’d either run away at 1,000 mph (less marriages) or at least be better prepared for the conflicts that will inevitably arise. Now there is a considerable body of research on this subject, and I don’t intend to add substantially to it other than to make some observations. Some won’t like what I have to say. Men Marry For Love – Most of us do. We marry for romantic reasons at least as much as women do, and I’d say much more. We have to, because IMHO we have less reasons to than women. Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc. Men it seems don’t give a rat’s arse about $$$. I was watching a television show here in Oz recently (it was about a pro footballer who was dumped from the team for having an affair with his best mate’s wife…his best mate was the vice-captain and he was the captain…the other players refused to play with him so he had to go). Both wives were stunning. I asked a mate of mine…have you noticed this…and he replied…they ALL have gorgeous wives…and I started noticing…he was right! Then I started looking at highly-paid sportsmen…hey..they all had beautiful wives too. If you need further proof of this, may I just say two words….Lyall Lovett ; Oh…and Andre Agassi. Men Marry For Sex – Yup. Whether they admit it or not, most men think marriage is a ticket to sex-on-tap. It does not take long for this illusion to be shattered. Recent scientific research has discovered one of the reasons. A highly potent libido inhibitor has been found lurking in a familiar food-stuff, and it is this substance that is to blame. It is mostly found in wedding cake ; Who Wants Kids? – The old biological imperative! There are lots of men who marry because they’d like to start a family. I was one of them. We are in a minority compared to the # of women who marry to have kids. This is only an issue for a man if he does not know how keen his fiance etc is. Companionship, scale economies and fear of loneliness are more reasons, but I think the main ones are the ones we best consider before entering into marriage. I doubt most men would marry if they knew the real reason their gal wanted them. OK, now you can all have a shot at me ….but be warned…I shoot back! Big Surf

Response:

Many of us have been saying this for quite some time now.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It seems to me that men and women generally marry for different reasons. That about 50% of marriages end in divorce might be a bit of a clue that if we better understood why our spouse-to-be was REALLY marrying us, we’d either run away at 1,000 mph (less marriages) or at least be better prepared for the conflicts that will inevitably arise. Now there is a considerable body of research on this subject, and I don’t intend to add substantially to it other than to make some observations. Some won’t like what I have to say. Men Marry For Love – Most of us do. We marry for romantic reasons at least as much as women do, and I’d say much more. We have to, because IMHO we have less reasons to than women. Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc. Men it seems don’t give a rat’s arse about $$$. I was watching a television show here in Oz recently (it was about a pro footballer who was dumped from the team for having an affair with his best mate’s wife…his best mate was the vice-captain and he was the captain…the other players refused to play with him so he had to go). Both wives were stunning. I asked a mate of mine…have you noticed this…and he replied…they ALL have gorgeous wives…and I started noticing…he was right! Then I started looking at highly-paid sportsmen…hey..they all had beautiful wives too. If you need further proof of this, may I just say two words….Lyall Lovett ; Oh…and Andre Agassi. Men Marry For Sex – Yup. Whether they admit it or not, most men think marriage is a ticket to sex-on-tap. It does not take long for this illusion to be shattered. Recent scientific research has discovered one of the reasons. A highly potent libido inhibitor has been found lurking in a familiar food-stuff, and it is this substance that is to blame. It is mostly found in wedding cake ; Who Wants Kids? – The old biological imperative! There are lots of men who marry because they’d like to start a family. I was one of them. We are in a minority compared to the # of women who marry to have kids. This is only an issue for a man if he does not know how keen his fiance etc is. Companionship, scale economies and fear of loneliness are more reasons, but I think the main ones are the ones we best consider before entering into marriage. I doubt most men would marry if they knew the real reason their gal wanted them. OK, now you can all have a shot at me ….but be warned…I shoot back! Big Surf

Response:

Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc

Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life.   Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole. Lauri in WA I like my email spamless

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc Boy, you nailed it right on.  When I married my ex 22 years ago, all I could think about was getting my hands on his 10 year old Datsun 510 that had no clutch or heater.  That car, in addition to the $4-something/hour salary he was pulling down, was a sure indicator that I would be set for life.   Damn.  Thanks for the good memories.  Once I was married to him, we were so rich that we could occasionally afford tuna to go in the tuna casserole.

You know, Lauri, I would bet far more women have stories like yours than the ‘marry for money’ stories.  Most of us marry for the same reason… we meet someone and just want to be with them. Casey You can’t drive forward while looking in the rear view mirror… you’ll hit something.

Response:

OK, now you can all have a shot at me ….but be warned…I shoot back! Big Surf

Got any real bullets? (or bulletins as most of your points don’t amount to "no shit Sherlock").   The man’s capability of being a "provider and protector" and woman’s ability to be nurturing and caring been examined for ever in the animal kingdom and the human experience going back to prehistoric man…and everyone knows this.   Most people also know "marraige" is born out of land/asset contract-merging between families, again…as old as time.   Way back that’s the reason people got married and sitll is in many parts of the world.   I’d say in contemporary America, at least since the early 20th century,  people get married out of psychological conditioning from birth.    People get married because it’s easy to do. If it was up to me getting married would be super expensive and very hard to do….and getting divorce easy and free. I think people get married due to not being "outside the box" thinkers on life and relatoins.     I think the trend going forward in Western world is serial monogomy.   As more and more Western women are capable and comfortable of being their own provider/protector going forward, the motivation/necessity of traditional marraige is reduced……just look at the growing number of women (empowered women with resources) making the choice to have children outside of marraige and not necessarily with the involvement of the sperm donar. The only thing interesting and worthy of discussion on this whole subject is "why would you get married without a pre-nup agreement" today? That’s the real question….and if so why?     Think about it….everyone today getting married has heard of a pre-nup….but why are they not standard protocol part of the marraige contract?   We’re Americans….we’re optimist….we’re going to make it and defy the odds……right? Andrew

Response:

It seems to me that men and women generally marry for different reasons. That about 50% of marriages end in divorce might be a bit of a clue that if we better understood why our spouse-to-be was REALLY marrying us, we’d either run away at 1,000 mph (less marriages) or at least be better prepared for the conflicts that will inevitably arise. Now there is a considerable body of research on this subject, and I don’t intend to add substantially to it other than to make some observations. Some won’t like what I have to say. Men Marry For Love – Most of us do. We marry for romantic reasons at least as much as women do, and I’d say much more. We have to, because IMHO we have less reasons to than women. Women Marry For Money – Now before y’all jump down my throat, ask yourself a few questions. How many men do you know that include income and assets in their desireable attributes for a partner? Few men do….but even flippantly, a woman will joke about how much money her beau makes, his car, his house ets etc. Men it seems don’t give a rat’s arse about $$$. I was watching a television show here in Oz recently (it was about a pro footballer who was dumped from the team for having an affair with his best mate’s wife…his best mate was the vice-captain and he was the captain…the other players refused to play with him so he had to go). Both wives were stunning. I asked a mate of mine…have you noticed this…and he replied…they ALL have gorgeous wives…and I started noticing…he was right! Then I started looking at highly-paid sportsmen…hey..they all had beautiful wives too. If you need further proof of this, may I just say two words….Lyall Lovett ; Oh…and Andre Agassi. Men Marry For Sex – Yup. Whether they admit it or not, most men think marriage is a ticket to sex-on-tap. It does not take long for this illusion to be shattered. Recent scientific research has discovered one of the reasons. A highly potent libido inhibitor has been found lurking in a familiar food-stuff, and it is this substance that is to blame. It is mostly found in wedding cake ; Who Wants Kids? – The old biological imperative! There are lots of men who marry because they’d like to start a family. I was one of them. We are in a minority compared to the # of women who marry to have kids. This is only an issue for a man if he does not know how keen his fiance etc is. Companionship, scale economies and fear of loneliness are more reasons, but I think the main ones are the ones we best consider before entering into marriage. I doubt most men would marry if they knew the real reason their gal wanted them. OK, now you can all have a shot at me ….but be warned…I shoot back! Big Surf

Response:

Filed under: Loneliness

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