To go back…or not to go back…

Question:

How much commitment does he have to your relationship?

A great deal *at the moment* – but I’ve made it all pretty easy for him too. At first I didn’t and he sounded at times like he was going to give up really easy….if *I* didn’t make some concessions to *show him* I really cared. Well I did and he’s OK for the moment. It took him 2 days after the last counseling session to recover from his pouting. Too much truth to swallow at-one-time I guess. That is the 64 thousand question. How committed is he to your (Plural) success? Commitment… success…. old words. Nothing new here. Same old song.

Your pain is showing through in your words. Terri D~

Response:

One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight!

So there is your answer – You must resolve this before you go back. You must be very firm about it. You must make him understand your concerns.

Response:

Dogs do not usually change their spots… Wildman

No, they usually don’t.

Response:

Some of my anger is from him emotionally abandoning me during a recent family-loss. (ie: stayed at work, very-little affection, dumped kids on me, etc.) Also criticized me for last 3yrs about my weight, hair-length, etc. He also trys to control everything/everyone. I just felt tired of trying to live up to his expectations and standards. Leaving him gave me a sense of freedom and loss at the same time.

Sounds like you need to resolve it before anything happens!

Response:

<snip I think that statement says a lot about what is in your heart. We cannot ALWAYS be sure about feelings what to do where to go. But generally there is a GUT feeling at the base underneath the insecurities and hurt and anger. That is where you have to look to see if you have it in you to try. Best of luck

Thanks Diane for your thoughts. My gut feeling is we *are very close* to having something great. BUT, if *we* don’t change the way we relate to each other, we will end up hating each other within a few years. I haven’t made any decisions yet….just tossing this around for now. I think I’m getting a better perspective each day that passes. :-) Terri D~

Response:

Dogs do not usually change their spots… Wildman ….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?"

After

Response:

[Dogs do not usually change their spots… Luckily, we are talking about human beings, not Dalmatians.

[....that is the question. [ [I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" [After [ [ [

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s been four weeks. The time needed for a man to truly change his character, personality, and control issues is longer than four weeks. He may be "controlling" the separation in his eyes by making assurances, promises and vows that he is a different man, and by putting on a lovely show that he has indeed changed. IMHO, however, your apprehension that he might revert back to his old ways is warranted. Do you have to make a decision right now? Hi Karen, Well, that is my delima. My counselor says the *only* motivation for him to change is *fear of loosing me*. BUT, the only way he will exhibit the very-negative behaviors that I’m trying to address in counseling are not being shown. He *is* on his best-behavior right now. She said "he admits he has problems", but she is unsure if he *truly feels inside himself* that he has a problem. It’s like a double-edge sword. I was thinking along these lines… If I allow him to move-in with me, and make an effort to put some resentment behind me….maybe, he’ll get comfortable enough to exihibit some of the negative-behavior that needs addressing. In addition, I’ll get to pratice what the counselor is telling me in real-time situations. We are limited in number of counseling-sessions and I’m thinking this would facilitate *our issues* being addressed sooner. I have another problem with counseling. When I try to bring up past-offenses to make-a-point of how badly he handled a situation….I’m told to quit harboring resentment and live-in-the-moment! I’m trying to address patterns that I *know* exists. If he is living with me, I know these issues will come-up and I can hash it out in the next counseling session. BUT….. He could move-in and think *problem solved!* and not go to counseling anymore. I do know he takes me seriously for the moment and knows that I’ve had enough of his temper and controlling behaviour. He will probably not rock-the-boat for awhile anyway, because I proved to him that I *would* leave. I feel like my marriage rides on me making the right-decision here. I hate the weight it puts on my heart. He WILL NOT quit pressuring me to cohabitate. THAT, in itself, shows me he *has not* learned how to control his need-to-control. I am going to bring it up next Tuesday’s session, before making any decisions.

The key point here, is that *any* serious marital decision has to be fully mutual. In that, you both have to want it, for positive ( as opposed to " why not " ) reasons. His pressuring you isn’t good. Neither is your considering manipulating the situation, to " get ‘ him to exhibit. How about you telling both him and her that *you* are not yet ready to live with him, while you have these doubts, and while he’s pushing for it ? That you need to *see* something more than pressure from his direction ? She even told him last session…. Hey, you get to see her and the kids everyday (we live next door to each other) and she’s sleeping with you. She’s going to counseling and trying to work-on-this. LIGHTEN UP and QUIT trying to control this situation. In one ear and out the other. This is the most frustrating point of my life yet.

Indeed. That pressure is what is worrying me… Thank you for your thoughts, Terri D~

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness " David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Not at all, but you do raise some issues that *you* have to face, and get past. What I am reading from your words, is that you have serious *fears* about what may be. Well, Terri, there is *no* way to know the future. Not in this, or anyhting else. Say that the two of you put it back together and it’s ten great years, then he gets killed by a bus. Does that obviate the time spent as a family ? Does that make invalid the love and life that came before that ? Terri D~ tried to write: Your point is well taken. NO, it does Oops! Was distracted and forgot to finish. Meant to say….NO, it does not make what was had invalid. I agree with you and wish I could not be anxious about the future.

That’s what I thought you were saying, in that ‘graph. And, it’s fine to be occasionally anxious about the future. We humans are afraid of the unknown, and life the security of the known, even if it’s not a good known. But, fear can be manifested in different ways. If you’re in a monster picture, and the creature is coming at you, is screaming and running, or fainting a more useful approach in such a situation ? Terri D~

Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness " David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

<snip The money is the small thing, isn’t it ? Yes, of course. I was rambling.

Fair enough. We all do that ( myself well included ). Your anger and resentments are your matters to deal with. Nothing that he does, or doesn’t do, can change what you feel within yourself. You can forgive by letting your love meet with his changes. He will have to stop the specific behaviors, to be worthy of forgiveness. But, then you will have to not bring up the old acts, ever again ( in the event that he does not ever repeat them ). That’s a part of forgivness that some fail to see. Stopping the behavior is part of the process of forgiving and rebuilding trust. Our problem is that when I start trusting him again and letting my emotional-guard down……he ultimately sabotages the relationship with the same behavior again. It’s like he can’t handle the intimacy that starts to grow between us and finds himself compulsively destroying that very thing he claims to want so badly.

Well, you said that he seems to be changed in his behavior, since the separation. Now I do agree that that might not indicate a permanent change in his personality ( still, it could. Mine changed, a lot, in the immediate aftermath. Even the ex apparently recognised a bit of that, from a letter I wrote to her, two weeks in ), still it also might. So, above, are you speaking of the times *before* the separation, or of times and experiences since ? You do not have to forget. Rather, you will let the new experiences make new memories that push the worst of the old way back into the dim mists of half forgotten memories. This would be easy for us, if the changes were permanent. When things are good with us…they are great! But I’m getting tired of being on an emotional roller-coaster. Over my 11yrs with him, the rough-spots we’ve encountered were *always* due to *HIS poor-choices*!! It’s not the acts themselves that I can’t get past — it’s the pattern I’ve come to know and the anxiety that builds knowing it’s around the corner and coming soon. His poor-choices keeps us on that roller-coaster.

Then, a part of the healing has to be alterations to his choices, and of your reactions to those choices. Has he really been making that many hurtful choices in the marriage ? A bit of specificity would very much illuminate this area. That the two of you have strong personalities doesn’t mean that there has to be continual conflict. One just has to learn to not let the full strength of the personality always run free. Just as we all learn as children, not to say just anything at anytime. You are correct. But some of us missed that life-lesson. Learning it as an adult seems difficult to do. His personality is that of a LION and it’s very tiring trying to keep myself on equal-terms with him. His intentions are not always bad, but his actions are often without-forethought and cause negative consequences for all involved.

So, he’s spontaneous, and he doesn’t well enough consider the wider implications of his actions, before he makes them ? Now, if he’s always been this way, did you find this attractive about him, before the wedding, but since, it’s worn thin ? This might be an example of the common female syndrome that *expects* that the guy will seamlessly shift from charming batchelorhood, to married bliss. Yet, if he was a specific way before, he’ll generally stay that way, until *he* sees a good reason to evolve the behavior. And, that life lesson is actually one that’s best learned by mature folks, rather than children. Though, the baseline for it does and can start in childhood. If both of you can do that, and live it, then you won’t have a reason to not allow yourself to let your guard down, which, to me, sounds like a very tiring way to live any life. Will he live the changes ? Well, you do know one way to find out. It *is* tiring, but I won’t know until we co-habitate again.

This is the part that has me a bit concerned. Can you not find out what you need to know about the " new " him, short of cohabiting ? There are two excellent reasons for you to do all that you possibly can to make it work, yes ? YES! Even my little-one seems to be having anxiety-problems from this situation.

I can believe that… <snipSecond chances do need *both* to be aware of what’s on the line, and on all that both need to do to make that happen. So, had the both of us done that, yes, I do believe that it could have. But, we were effectively doomed, by her acts and choices, two months before the marriage. It does take TWO….doesn’t it!

Absolutely. NO ONE else can " make " another want or do something this life intensive. Just as no one aside from the alcoholic can make that person stop drinking. We can control *anything* and *everything* about ourselves ( aside from incoming asteroids… ), and *nothing* about any other persons. This is a *very* frustrating lesson to learn, and a lot of people really don’t want to learn it. But, there it is. There’s no need for either of you to move back in that fast, is there ? Well, HE is having trouble controlling his *fear and need-to-control* and therefore pushing to cohabitate again. My reasons for possibly agreeing are more about bringing our *issues* to the fore-front, so counseling can do us a greater-good. He will not exhibit the behavior that causes problems, unless he’s comfortable. Only then will HE do/say the very-things that I’m trying to address.

But, if he becomes " comfortable ", might that not allow him to revert to his older patterns ? Perhaps there might be a long term benefit to your remaining in separate residences for a while longer. From what you wrote, his " need-to-control " is a serious part of what got the two of you to where you are, right now. I’d suggest that it would not be good to overly accomidate that part of him, if you want him to really integrate those changes within himself. We all learn less when we are " comfortable ". I have a problem with the counselor in that respect. When I bring up past behaviors to make a point, she tells me that I’m holding grudges and need to live-in-the-present. It’s hard to bring up negative-behaviors, when he is not presently exhibiting them.

That depends on the point. It is fair to bring up both of your pasts, as long as it’s not the main course of discussion. After all, the past won’t ever change, will it ? But, the future is still unwritten, and can go in a multitude of diverse directions, yet. I trust that the both of you are also bringing up positive present behaviors, yes ? Hearing the other acknowledge, and celebrate the positive in us is a powerful reinforcement to making such changes. It gives the other solid *proof* that we are being understood in what we are doing. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Not at all, but you do raise some issues that *you* have to face, and get past. What I am reading from your words, is that you have serious *fears* about what may be. Well, Terri, there is *no* way to know the future. Not in this, or anyhting else. Say that the two of you put it back together and it’s ten great years, then he gets killed by a bus. Does that obviate the time spent as a family ? Does that make invalid the love and life that came before that ? Your point is well taken. NO, it does And, how does *he* know that *you* won’t leave him, at some point down the road ? If your fears are real to you, his are to him, too. I realize that and also know that his fears cause him to bull-doze over me trying to control the situation that causes him anxiety.

So, if he can conquer his fears, then it’s likely that the bull-dozing behaviors will diminish, too. Whether you two are living together, or not, those fears will still be there, if they are left unattended. You see, such fears are not primarily rational, so your living together won’t solve them. Here’s a bit from Faith Hill’s song, The Meaning Of Life ( great video, too ) Sam looks up from his Sunday paper Says, boys you’re on the wrong track The secret of life is there ain’t no secret And you don’t get your money back Profound statement….I like it!

That CD, " Faith " is a wonderful collection of profound songs. " You Bring Me Love " is another fav, and I was delighted that the Mad About You series finale used it as the closing piece. I highly recommend it. But, you know best how to recognise it, don’t you … ? I just feel like I lost the "essence of who I am" in this relationship. My husband is kinda like a black-hole. His very-presence tends to suck-the-life out of the room sometimes. This is for others as well as myself. His tendency to be brooding, serious, controlling, etc. can make you feel like the energy was zapped from your inner-depths. <being melodramtic again :-)

I know some folks like that, too. But, for the rest of us, we have to see that how *we* react to them, is our choice. So, we can choose to react in a diferent way to such folks. " Alpha " types don’t change very often out of being " alpha’s ". They can learn to " tone it down " some, though. P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend. We have to face the world for what it *is*, and live in that one. Fantasies are for the insides of our heads, only. Yes, I call this "living in Disneyland" and I actually know some people like this! Their world is perfect, even if they have to pretend it is. I’m more grounded than that. That is why hope seems elusive to me at times.

Hope is the start of knowing that all that we see in front of us is *not* the whole picture, nor the whole world. So, hope is actually a rational as well as an emotional state of … read more »

Response:

It’s been four weeks. The time needed for a man to truly change his character, personality, and control issues is longer than four weeks. He may be "controlling" the separation in his eyes by making assurances, promises and vows that he is a different man, and by putting on a lovely show that he has indeed changed. IMHO, however, your apprehension that he might revert back to his old ways is warranted. Do you have to make a decision right now?

Hi Karen, Well, that is my delima. My counselor says the *only* motivation for him to change is *fear of loosing me*. BUT, the only way he will exhibit the very-negative behaviors that I’m trying to address in counseling are not being shown. He *is* on his best-behavior right now. She said "he admits he has problems", but she is unsure if he *truly feels inside himself* that he has a problem. It’s like a double-edge sword. I was thinking along these lines… If I allow him to move-in with me, and make an effort to put some resentment behind me….maybe, he’ll get comfortable enough to exihibit some of the negative-behavior that needs addressing. In addition, I’ll get to pratice what the counselor is telling me in real-time situations. We are limited in number of counseling-sessions and I’m thinking this would facilitate *our issues* being addressed sooner. I have another problem with counseling. When I try to bring up past-offenses to make-a-point of how badly he handled a situation….I’m told to quit harboring resentment and live-in-the-moment! I’m trying to address patterns that I *know* exists. If he is living with me, I know these issues will come-up and I can hash it out in the next counseling session. BUT….. He could move-in and think *problem solved!* and not go to counseling anymore. I do know he takes me seriously for the moment and knows that I’ve had enough of his temper and controlling behaviour. He will probably not rock-the-boat for awhile anyway, because I proved to him that I *would* leave. I feel like my marriage rides on me making the right-decision here. I hate the weight it puts on my heart. He WILL NOT quit pressuring me to cohabitate. THAT, in itself, shows me he *has not* learned how to control his need-to-control. I am going to bring it up next Tuesday’s session, before making any decisions. She even told him last session…. Hey, you get to see her and the kids everyday (we live next door to each other) and she’s sleeping with you. She’s going to counseling and trying to work-on-this. LIGHTEN UP and QUIT trying to control this situation. In one ear and out the other. This is the most frustrating point of my life yet. Thank you for your thoughts, Terri D~

Response:

I still think the two of you need to each get a copy of "The Road Less Traveled" by M.Scott Peck, and read it a chapter at a time and compare notes and discuss it. You will find a lot of habits you both need to be aware of, and then to break and make new ones. — Dan

Response:

Terri D~ tried to write: Your point is well taken. NO, it does

Oops! Was distracted and forgot to finish. Meant to say….NO, it does not make what was had invalid. I agree with you and wish I could not be anxious about the future. Terri D~

Response:

<snip The money is the small thing, isn’t it ?

Yes, of course. I was rambling. Your anger and resentments are your matters to deal with. Nothing that he does, or doesn’t do, can change what you feel within yourself. You can forgive by letting your love meet with his changes. He will have to stop the specific behaviors, to be worthy of forgiveness. But, then you will have to not bring up the old acts, ever again ( in the event that he does not ever repeat them ). That’s a part of forgivness that some fail to see.

Stopping the behavior is part of the process of forgiving and rebuilding trust. Our problem is that when I start trusting him again and letting my emotional-guard down……he ultimately sabotages the relationship with the same behavior again. It’s like he can’t handle the intimacy that starts to grow between us and finds himself compulsively destroying that very thing he claims to want so badly. You do not have to forget. Rather, you will let the new experiences make new memories that push the worst of the old way back into the dim mists of half forgotten memories.

This would be easy for us, if the changes were permanent. When things are good with us…they are great! But I’m getting tired of being on an emotional roller-coaster. Over my 11yrs with him, the rough-spots we’ve encountered were *always* due to *HIS poor-choices*!! It’s not the acts themselves that I can’t get past — it’s the pattern I’ve come to know and the anxiety that builds knowing it’s around the corner and coming soon. His poor-choices keeps us on that roller-coaster. That the two of you have strong personalities doesn’t mean that there has to be continual conflict. One just has to learn to not let the full strength of the personality always run free. Just as we all learn as children, not to say just anything at anytime.

You are correct. But some of us missed that life-lesson. Learning it as an adult seems difficult to do. His personality is that of a LION and it’s very tiring trying to keep myself on equal-terms with him. His intentions are not always bad, but his actions are often without-forethought and cause negative consequences for all involved. If both of you can do that, and live it, then you won’t have a reason to not allow yourself to let your guard down, which, to me, sounds like a very tiring way to live any life. Will he live the changes ? Well, you do know one way to find out.

It *is* tiring, but I won’t know until we co-habitate again. There are two excellent reasons for you to do all that you possibly can to make it work, yes ?

YES! Even my little-one seems to be having anxiety-problems from this situation. <snipSecond chances do need *both* to be aware of what’s on the line, and on all that both need to do to make that happen. So, had the both of us done that, yes, I do believe that it could have. But, we were effectively doomed, by her acts and choices, two months before the marriage.

It does take TWO….doesn’t it! There’s no need for either of you to move back in that fast, is there ?

Well, HE is having trouble controlling his *fear and need-to-control* and therefore pushing to cohabitate again. My reasons for possibly agreeing are more about bringing our *issues* to the fore-front, so counseling can do us a greater-good. He will not exhibit the behavior that causes problems, unless he’s comfortable. Only then will HE do/say the very-things that I’m trying to address. I have a problem with the counselor in that respect. When I bring up past behaviors to make a point, she tells me that I’m holding grudges and need to live-in-the-present. It’s hard to bring up negative-behaviors, when he is not presently exhibiting them. Not at all, but you do raise some issues that *you* have to face, and get past. What I am reading from your words, is that you have serious *fears* about what may be. Well, Terri, there is *no* way to know the future. Not in this, or anyhting else. Say that the two of you put it back together and it’s ten great years, then he gets killed by a bus. Does that obviate the time spent as a family ? Does that make invalid the love and life that came before that ?

Your point is well taken. NO, it does And, how does *he* know that *you* won’t leave him, at some point down the road ? If your fears are real to you, his are to him, too.

I realize that and also know that his fears cause him to bull-doze over me trying to control the situation that causes him anxiety. Here’s a bit from Faith Hill’s song, The Meaning Of Life ( great video, too ) Sam looks up from his Sunday paper Says, boys you’re on the wrong track The secret of life is there ain’t no secret And you don’t get your money back

Profound statement….I like it! But, you know best how to recognise it, don’t you … ?

I just feel like I lost the "essence of who I am" in this relationship. My husband is kinda like a black-hole. His very-presence tends to suck-the-life out of the room sometimes. This is for others as well as myself. His tendency to be brooding, serious, controlling, etc. can make you feel like the energy was zapped from your inner-depths. <being melodramtic again :-) P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend. We have to face the world for what it *is*, and live in that one. Fantasies are for the insides of our heads, only.

Yes, I call this "living in Disneyland" and I actually know some people like this! Their world is perfect, even if they have to pretend it is. I’m more grounded than that. That is why hope seems elusive to me at times. Thanks Andre for your kind words and point of view. Terri D~

Response:

**Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning

and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for

the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance

(or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out?

NOTE: I’m reposting this response because I’m not sure the first one made it. Sorry if it’s duplicated. I know for a fact it’s possible because I did it. I was a very neglectful husband for many, many years. Not abusive, my wife will tell you, but I took her and the family for granted a lot. I was very focused on providing my family with ‘things’. House. Cars. Money. Vacations, etc. I thought that’s what they expected of me and that was what they wanted. My wife, after so many years of feeling lonely and neglected in our marriage, had an affair. Finding that out was the first indication I had that my wife was unhappy. Quite a shocker, huh? Well, of course she tried to blame the affair on me to relieve herself of some of the guilt. But, the reality was, there was some truth in what she was saying. No, I didn’t TELL her to go love someone else. She made that decision on her own. But, I did contribute to the environment that made the decision easy for her. So, I listened to what she had to say about her feelings towards me and my attitude in the past. She related specific incidents that happened years before that I had completely forgotten about. But, it was these very small things (in my mind) that combined and grew into major resentment in her mind. In my own defense, she had not complained or even mentioned the incidents at the times they occured. She just let her anger build and build. So, over the years, I never knew that the ice was getting thinner and thinner under my feet. I suspect a similar scenario happened in your house. Now your husband has been slammed over the head with the reality that he REALLY COULD lose you. Prior to you moving out, he probably thought something like "This, too, shall pass. Our love can transend any turmoil, etc, etc.". So, yes, he’s going to do whatever it takes to try to keep his family together. And that is good. One thing that is very important, though, is that he must have the attitude that he is going to remake himself for his own well being. Not just for you and the family. That’s the only way to ensure that it will be a permanent thing. I don’t think that attitude can be gained with any help from you. He has to come to this conclusion on his own. When I made the decision to make changes in myself it was at a very low point in our relationship. My wife was convinced she wanted a divorce and didn’t even want to work on the marriage. So, I was actually thinking "even if it the marriage breaks up, I will have made some positive changes in my life and that will be good for ALL relationships in my life; work, kids, family, friends, new loves, etc." So, you are right to be wary. Don’t make it easy for him. Test him. See if he is sincere and committed to change. Try to push the buttons that used to get him fired up. See how he reacts. My wife did this with me and I’m glad she did. It was the only way she would be convinced that I was a changed person. Well, not really "changed". Just back to being the same person I was when we first met. Loving, caring, supportive, etc. Don’t rush it. Let it take as long as it takes. But, keep progressing. Keep up with counselling, reading and talking with each other. It took my wife and I more than a year to recover. Now, three years later, we are still very happy and very much in love with each other. I also have a much closer relationship and bond with my children, my brother and sisters, my parents and my friends. One last thing. You should visit www.marriagebuilders.com. Those people have a great philosophy and approach to maintaining good marriages. Look for the ‘Policy of Joint Agreement’. If a couple follows the policy in everything they do, it’s basically impossible for them to do anything that will hurt each other. If you want to talk to me or my wife in more detail about how we recovered, We’re not professional counselors or anything like that. We’ve just been down that long, dark path through the forest and have successfully come out the other side. God bless and good luck. TTFN, kalote Share what you know. Learn what you don’t.

Response:

HI, I have not posted for a bit But I would like to add my 2 cents I would say that your resolve has to be strong to make sure that you do NOT accept any backsliding. So if he seems to be changed for the better and it is a temporary thing, or he decides he has had enough counseling and you are back together. You jump up and say UH NO we are NOT done with counseling I am not agreeing to this. You can set guidelines right up front as to what you expect. It is difficult for any of us here to say Yes you should try or no you should not. Only you can decide how far you are willing to go, or how faryou can handle. *Sometimes I look at our relationship and think "we are so-close to having something so-special" * I think that statement says a lot about what is in your heart. We cannot ALWAYS be sure about feelings what to do where to go. But generally there is a GUT feeling at the base underneath the insecurities and hurt and anger. That is where you have to look to see if you have it in you to try. Best of luck

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – <snip How willing are you to make this work out and how willing is he? Just like any relationship, a team effort is mandatory, whether it’s with rebuilding a marriage or raising kids. It seems he is fully-committed and I am hesitant. That’s probably because I’m afraid it *won’t* be a team effort….more like him running my life for me again. It’s tiring to constantly have to work-so-hard to keep a vote in the relationship. In the past it was his way or the highway. When he does give-in and/or comprimise…..he ultimately holds resentment toward me and it shows. If the two of you can agree to work together towards a common goal and have the ability to give and take with each new problem that arises, then go for it. Sure you might spend the next two years in therapy together. What’s there to win? If BOTH of you are willing to work TOGETHER to reach for the brass ring, then you can do it TOGETHER. Thanks BILDO for your thoughts. Sometimes I look at our relationship and think "we are so-close to having something so-special" and other times I think I’m so-alone in a house full-of-people. I *know* that I’ll have to let him move-in and get comfortable… before my questions can be answered. Take care, Terri D~

Response:

I agree with Karen. Give it a lot of time and see how it plays out; "…..if it comes back to you, it’s yours; if it doesn’t, it never was." — Gentleman Jim A Country Boy and Southern Gentleman God created me in His image and gave His son that my sins would be forgiven. Please don’t think that you can create a better me than God did, or that you should be any less forgiving. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of divorce, I will feel no loneliness: for I am with me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Terri, It’s been four weeks. The time needed for a man to truly change his character, personality, and control issues is longer than four weeks. He may be "controlling" the separation in his eyes by making assurances, promises and vows that he is a different man, and by putting on a lovely show that he has indeed changed. IMHO, however, your apprehension that he might revert back to his old ways is warranted. Do you have to make a decision right now? Karen ….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" After our first joint-counseling session, my counselor called me *vociferous* with my resentments!! Huh? After looking it up, I’m thinking that could be an insult! :-) Actually, the session was intense, but I think it was productive. Hubby and me have talked/seen each other every day. Hell, we even resumed marital_relations (by my choice)…so I guess my separation pretty much consists of sleeping under a different roof! I filed paperwork, but never served him….so technically, I’ve wasted $150 bucks. I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm… **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

Terri, It’s been four weeks. The time needed for a man to truly change his character, personality, and control issues is longer than four weeks. He may be "controlling" the separation in his eyes by making assurances, promises and vows that he is a different man, and by putting on a lovely show that he has indeed changed. IMHO, however, your apprehension that he might revert back to his old ways is warranted. Do you have to make a decision right now? Karen – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" After our first joint-counseling session, my counselor called me *vociferous* with my resentments!! Huh? After looking it up, I’m thinking that could be an insult! :-) Actually, the session was intense, but I think it was productive. Hubby and me have talked/seen each other every day. Hell, we even resumed marital_relations (by my choice)…so I guess my separation pretty much consists of sleeping under a different roof! I filed paperwork, but never served him….so technically, I’ve wasted $150 bucks. I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm… **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

<snip How willing are you to make this work out and how willing is he? Just like any relationship, a team effort is mandatory, whether it’s with rebuilding a marriage or raising kids.

It seems he is fully-committed and I am hesitant. That’s probably because I’m afraid it *won’t* be a team effort….more like him running my life for me again. It’s tiring to constantly have to work-so-hard to keep a vote in the relationship. In the past it was his way or the highway. When he does give-in and/or comprimise…..he ultimately holds resentment toward me and it shows. If the two of you can agree to work together towards a common goal and have the ability to give and take with each new problem that arises, then go for it. Sure you might spend the next two years in therapy together. What’s there to win? If BOTH of you are willing to work TOGETHER to reach for the brass ring, then you can do it TOGETHER.

Thanks BILDO for your thoughts. Sometimes I look at our relationship and think "we are so-close to having something so-special" and other times I think I’m so-alone in a house full-of-people. I *know* that I’ll have to let him move-in and get comfortable… before my questions can be answered. Take care, Terri D~

Response:

<snip How does he feel about it? A reconcillition takes the commitment of both parties – if that commitment can not be obtained – I don’t see how a reconciliation will improve the existing situation.

Well, he is fully-committed (so-he-says) to making this work. I am full of doubts, fear and lack of trust. Love, anger, uncertainty – that is a lot to wrestle with. The question of trust – who can address that better then you?

Yes, but trust is so easily destroyed and can only be restored by consistency and time. The focus on your anger – what is the root of that anger? Where is that coming from? I think that part of the answer may be there ….

Thanks BD, I appreciate being able to toss-thoughts-around and have compassionate opinions available to help-give-perspective to my situation. Terri D~

Response:

The money is the small thing, isn’t it ? I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer.

Your anger and resentments are your matters to deal with. Nothing that he does, or doesn’t do, can change what you feel within yourself. You can forgive by letting your love meet with his changes. He will have to stop the specific behaviors, to be worthy of forgiveness. But, then you will have to not bring up the old acts, ever again ( in the event that he does not ever repeat them ). That’s a part of forgivness that some fail to see. You do not have to forget. Rather, you will let the new experiences make new memories that push the worst of the old way back into the dim mists of half forgotten memories. That the two of you have strong personalities doesn’t mean that there has to be continual conflict. One just has to learn to not let the full strength of the personality always run free. Just as we all learn as children, not to say just anything at anytime. If both of you can do that, and live it, then you won’t have a reason to not allow yourself to let your guard down, which, to me, sounds like a very tiring way to live any life. Will he live the changes ? Well, you do know one way to find out. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm…

There are two excellent reasons for you to do all that you possibly can to make it work, yes ? **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out?

On your first question, I am a bit biased, as that’s exactly what happened to me. My then counselor even commented on that, when I brought to him the letter that I wrote the ex, in the immediate aftermath of the separation. As she had already chosen the people she wanted to sleep with, it made no difference to her acts. But, it did to my path. Can it last ? My perspective on such things continues to grow, but it all does stem from that point, so yes, it can, if the person wants it to. Second chances do need *both* to be aware of what’s on the line, and on all that both need to do to make that happen. So, had the both of us done that, yes, I do believe that it could have. But, we were effectively doomed, by her acts and choices, two months before the marriage. I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry

There’s no need for either of you to move back in that fast, is there ? One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight!

Not at all, but you do raise some issues that *you* have to face, and get past. What I am reading from your words, is that you have serious *fears* about what may be. Well, Terri, there is *no* way to know the future. Not in this, or anyhting else. Say that the two of you put it back together and it’s ten great years, then he gets killed by a bus. Does that obviate the time spent as a family ? Does that make invalid the love and life that came before that ? And, how does *he* know that *you* won’t leave him, at some point down the road ? If your fears are real to you, his are to him, too. Here’s a bit from Faith Hill’s song, The Meaning Of Life ( great video, too ) Sam looks up from his Sunday paper Says, boys you’re on the wrong track The secret of life is there ain’t no secret And you don’t get your money back Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know.

But, you know best how to recognise it, don’t you … ? Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

No. It would be nice if there were such guarantees, and if there were, then we could all share in what they brought to us. But, to *pretend* that life is that way, when it *isn’t*, is a pretty sure path to guaranteed disappointments. We have to face the world for what it *is*, and live in that one. Fantasies are for the insides of our heads, only. Andre — " The noblest achievement of the imagination is to make time run some other way, and terminate in beauty and forgivness " David Gelernter, " 1939 "

Response:

Terri. Of course a man can "wake up" one morning changed, so can a woman, It’s human nature. Just like one day you wanted your s.o. out of your life and the next you talk about going back. People can change and if the stakes are high enough, they can change for good. How willing are you to make this work out and how willing is he? Just like any relationship, a team effort is mandatory, whether it’s with rebuilding a marriage or raising kids. If the two of you can agree to work together towards a common goal and have the ability to give and take with each new problem that arises, then go for it. Sure you might spend the next two years in therapy together. What’s there to win? If BOTH of you are willing to work TOGETHER to reach for the brass ring, then you can do it TOGETHER. Bildo

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….that is the question. **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

BD said it very well so I can’t add much. I would say that life is a gamble in all facets. As evidenced by the posts in this group, we all stand a chance of being "thrown away" at some point. I think reconciliation after separation rarely works, but I also think it has worked for some of the luckier couples. You have a history, good and bad, but you also have love and that’s a good thing. Make your choice based on what you know and feel. "Gut feelings" rarely tell us wrong. It’s a tough call but yours alone to make. — Gentleman Jim A Country Boy and Southern Gentleman God created me in His image and gave His son that my sins would be forgiven. Please don’t think that you can create a better me than God did, or that you should be any less forgiving. Yea, though I walk through the valley of the shadow of divorce, I will feel no loneliness: for I am with me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Wow. You’re standing at the brink – and hestitant to "cross the line" that would bring the marriage to an end. You seem to understand your situation well, you are certainly clear in your description. How does he feel about it? A reconcillition takes the commitment of both parties – if that commitment can not be obtained – I don’t see how a reconciliation will improve the existing situation. Love, anger, uncertainty – that is a lot to wrestle with. The question of trust – who can address that better then you? The focus on your anger – what is the root of that anger? Where is that coming from? I think that part of the answer may be there …. Perhaps others have advice for you FC, and BTW, I don’t think your soul is "lost" – I think you have it very close …… Kindest Regards & Best Wishes — BD ….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" After our first joint-counseling session, my counselor called me *vociferous* with my resentments!! Huh? After looking it up, I’m thinking that could be an insult! :-) Actually, the session was intense, but I think it was productive. Hubby and me have talked/seen each other every day. Hell, we even resumed marital_relations (by my choice)…so I guess my separation pretty much consists of sleeping under a different roof! I filed paperwork, but never served him….so technically, I’ve wasted $150 bucks. I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm… **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

Wow. You’re standing at the brink – and hestitant to "cross the line" that would bring the marriage to an end. You seem to understand your situation well, you are certainly clear in your description. How does he feel about it? A reconcillition takes the commitment of both parties – if that commitment can not be obtained – I don’t see how a reconciliation will improve the existing situation. Love, anger, uncertainty – that is a lot to wrestle with. The question of trust – who can address that better then you? The focus on your anger – what is the root of that anger? Where is that coming from? I think that part of the answer may be there …. Perhaps others have advice for you FC, and BTW, I don’t think your soul is "lost" – I think you have it very close …… Kindest Regards & Best Wishes — BD – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – ….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" After our first joint-counseling session, my counselor called me *vociferous* with my resentments!! Huh? After looking it up, I’m thinking that could be an insult! :-) Actually, the session was intense, but I think it was productive. Hubby and me have talked/seen each other every day. Hell, we even resumed marital_relations (by my choice)…so I guess my separation pretty much consists of sleeping under a different roof! I filed paperwork, but never served him….so technically, I’ve wasted $150 bucks. I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm… **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

….that is the question. I sit here and ponder my separation of 4weeks and wonder "what next?" After our first joint-counseling session, my counselor called me *vociferous* with my resentments!! Huh? After looking it up, I’m thinking that could be an insult! :-) Actually, the session was intense, but I think it was productive. Hubby and me have talked/seen each other every day. Hell, we even resumed marital_relations (by my choice)…so I guess my separation pretty much consists of sleeping under a different roof! I filed paperwork, but never served him….so technically, I’ve wasted $150 bucks. I do love him…but I have SO MUCH anger and resentment for some really mean things done/said in the not_so_distant past. How do I forgive and forget? He appears to be a "changed man" for the last month, but I guess I won’t know until I live with him again. I read some books and came to one conclusion….He and I both have strong personalities that don’t always compliment each other. This relationship *will never comes easy* for either one of us. I don’t think I’ll ever feel at-ease and unguarded. He is trying to so hard to *prove his love* and I worry it’s only because I’m slightly-unattainable. If I go back and he starts being mean and taking me for granted again, I guess I’ll have my answer. I realized this week just HOW MUCH I miss my babies (6yrs and 10mths) when it’s *his* week. He has had them 2wks and did a wonderful job of taking care of them. This is the same man that didn’t help when I *was* there. Hmmmm… **Question(s): Do ya’ll think someone can wake-up one morning and have their whole perspective on family, love and life change for the better? Can it last? If one of you had been offered a second chance (or maybe you did), do you think it would have worked out? I’m afraid if I move back, he’ll quit going to counseling….and *we* NEED a bunch!!! Geezzz, I’m going by myself and jointly to try and let-go-of-the-past…trust again….love again….hope again. <sounding melodramatic here, sorry One of my biggest fears is that I’ll go back and spend another 10-15 years with him, learn to love-him all over again…and have him dump me for a younger model when he hits another self-esteem crisis (has one every 5yrs). This is going to sound really selfish, but I don’t want to "waist my life and love" on someone that will ultimately *throw-me-away*. God, I sound pathetic tonight! Somebody say a prayer for my lost soul. If anyone finds it, let me know. Feeling down and confused, Terri D~ P.S. I know there aren’t any guarantees in life….but it would be nice if I could pretend.

Response:

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Lonely Loneliness

You are not alone — Lonely Loneliness