Lonely Loneliness » Overcome loneliness

How many will commit suicide?

admin — Fri, 24 Dec 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

CTS wrote: > "Solitary Soul" wrote in message > news:kgmus0pnlc3r1v6dtiss3q50bl8o2sh54p@4ax.com… > > On 26 Dec 2004 04:17:57 -0800, "Gray Loser"

> > wrote: > >>CTS wrote: > >>> Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a > >>> cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk. > > You could french-kiss a shotgun – or hang yourself. > > Those methods are MUCH better. > They still carry some risk of failure. Besides, I’m a filthy coward and I > simply wouldn’t have the willpower to do that. However, driving without a > seatbelt is passive and fun.

passive recklessness… I can relate to that. On a side note, I remember chatting to a rather nice American lady when I was doing a road trip across the states a few years ago. She told me she couldnt bear to ever wearing a seat belt, as she was always frightened she might drive off a bridge into a body of water, and be unable to escape from her car as it slowly filled with water. I didnt have the heart to tell her, that the chances of that happening, were rather miniscule compared to the likelihood of her very pretty face being smeared all over the steering wheel, and windscreen in the more likely event of any other crash that didnt involve chance crashes off bridges into lakes or rivers.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Mon, 27 Dec 2004 00:58:11 -0000, "CTS" wrote: >"Solitary Soul" wrote in message >news:kgmus0pnlc3r1v6dtiss3q50bl8o2sh54p@4ax.com… >> On 26 Dec 2004 04:17:57 -0800, "Gray Loser" >> wrote: >>>CTS wrote: >>>> Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a >>>> cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk. >> You could french-kiss a shotgun – or hang yourself. >> Those methods are MUCH better. >They still carry some risk of failure.

Not nearly the risks associated with death by auto collision. > Besides, I’m a filthy coward and I >simply wouldn’t have the willpower to do that.

??? But you’ll risk being a cripple for the rest of your life? One of my greatest fears is that I’ll have an accident of some sort (auto or otherwise), suffer severe injuries (perhaps including head trauma with brain damage), then be placed in a nursing home to live … no … survive for many years before I mercifully die eventually. If I were placed in a situation like that, I wouldn’t have the capabilities nor the resources to self-terminate - I doubt if any of the staff in a nursing home would let me have a firearm. > However, driving without a seatbelt is passive and fun.

I don’t see how anyone can derive any sort of enjoyment from it - but whatever floats your boat. Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– In my experience, there is no excuse for thinking positively. – ASStagon

Response:

"Solitary Soul" wrote in message

news:kgmus0pnlc3r1v6dtiss3q50bl8o2sh54p@4ax.com… > On 26 Dec 2004 04:17:57 -0800, "Gray Loser" > wrote: >>CTS wrote: >>> Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a >>> cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk. > You could french-kiss a shotgun – or hang yourself. > Those methods are MUCH better.

They still carry some risk of failure. Besides, I’m a filthy coward and I simply wouldn’t have the willpower to do that. However, driving without a seatbelt is passive and fun.

Response:

On Sun, 26 Dec 2004 21:53:05 GMT, k…@ing.notin.aus (Your Name Here=Harvey) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <1104078329.981574.99…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, >kittner12…@yahoo.com says… >>CTS wrote: >>> "Gray Loser" wrote in message >>> news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >>> > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse >>to >>> > just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was coming >>up. >>> It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt. >>Where I live, you can now get a ticket for this. I was pulled over for >>this, but just received a warning. I find this ridiculous, since I’m >>not really putting anyone else at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, so >>why should it matter? >>In contrast, people are allowed to yap away on a cell phone while >>giving maybe half of their attention to the road, and this is perfectly >>legal. I used to work in road construction, and one day I just stood >>back and observed how many people passing by were using cell phones. It >>must have been in the neighborhood of 75%. Is there really any >>conversation that important that it can’t wait until you can have a >>face to face conversation, or at least wait until you are no longer >>operating an auto mobile, to have? >Everyone’s life impact upon others. >If you take your own life – it is not yourself that you are hurting.

So who else am I hurting? >Tis folly to commit suicide anyway – you give in to the stereotype about >death and dying — which is not it is cracked up to be.

How do you know this? >It’s like voiding a contract you have undertaken (spiritually) to uphold.

A contract with whom? >Live a life here.

Live a life where? Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– Death was in that poisonous wave, And in its gulf a fitting grave For him who thence could solace bring To his lone imagining — Whose solitary soul could make An Eden of that dim lake. "The Lake" – by Edgar Allan Poe

Response:

On 26 Dec 2004 04:17:57 -0800, "Gray Loser" wrote: >CTS wrote: >> Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a >> cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk.

You could french-kiss a shotgun – or hang yourself. Those methods are MUCH better. >Being a veggie doesn’t bother me (it wouldn’t be me anymore).

Being a veggie is one thing, but being reduced to the life of a cripple would be a fate worse than death. I think that would be a HORRIBLE life to live IMO. >It would >probably bother my family quite a bit, though. What bothers me is the >possibility of surviving thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, only >to have to live out the rest of my days in agonizing pain.

This is a consideration. Solitary Soul -> http://users3.ev1.net/~solitarysoul/ —————————————————– Death was in that poisonous wave, And in its gulf a fitting grave For him who thence could solace bring To his lone imagining — Whose solitary soul could make An Eden of that dim lake. "The Lake" – by Edgar Allan Poe

Response:

CTS wrote: > "Gray Loser" wrote in message > news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse to > > just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was coming up. > It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt.

Where I live, you can now get a ticket for this. I was pulled over for this, but just received a warning. I find this ridiculous, since I’m not really putting anyone else at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, so why should it matter? In contrast, people are allowed to yap away on a cell phone while giving maybe half of their attention to the road, and this is perfectly legal. I used to work in road construction, and one day I just stood back and observed how many people passing by were using cell phones. It must have been in the neighborhood of 75%. Is there really any conversation that important that it can’t wait until you can have a face to face conversation, or at least wait until you are no longer operating an auto mobile, to have?

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In article <1104078329.981574.99…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, kittner12…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->CTS wrote: >> "Gray Loser" wrote in message >> news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… >> > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse >to >> > just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was coming >up. >> It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt. >Where I live, you can now get a ticket for this. I was pulled over for >this, but just received a warning. I find this ridiculous, since I’m >not really putting anyone else at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, so >why should it matter? >In contrast, people are allowed to yap away on a cell phone while >giving maybe half of their attention to the road, and this is perfectly >legal. I used to work in road construction, and one day I just stood >back and observed how many people passing by were using cell phones. It >must have been in the neighborhood of 75%. Is there really any >conversation that important that it can’t wait until you can have a >face to face conversation, or at least wait until you are no longer >operating an auto mobile, to have?

Everyone’s life impact upon others. If you take your own life – it is not yourself that you are hurting. Tis folly to commit suicide anyway – you give in to the stereotype about death and dying — which is not it is cracked up to be. It’s like voiding a contract you have undertaken (spiritually) to uphold. Live a life here. Harvey

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"Your Name Here=Harvey" wrote in message news:5pGzd.2760$mo2.113955@news.xtra.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <1104078329.981574.99…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > kittner12…@yahoo.com says… > > CTS wrote: > > > "Gray Loser" wrote in message > > > news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > > > > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse > > > > to just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was > > > > coming up. > > > It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt. > > Where I live, you can now get a ticket for this. I was pulled over for > > this, but just received a warning. I find this ridiculous, since I’m > > not really putting anyone else at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, so > > why should it matter? > > In contrast, people are allowed to yap away on a cell phone while > > giving maybe half of their attention to the road, and this is perfectly > > legal. I used to work in road construction, and one day I just stood > > back and observed how many people passing by were using cell phones. It > > must have been in the neighborhood of 75%. Is there really any > > conversation that important that it can’t wait until you can have a > > face to face conversation, or at least wait until you are no longer > > operating an auto mobile, to have? > Everyone’s life impact upon others. > If you take your own life – it is not yourself that you are hurting.

Oh please. Take your soppy pompous feel-good BS somewhere else – it’s not welcome in this subthread. It’s my own business if I don’t want to wear a seatbelt because I wanna splatter myself in a crash, and nobody else has any right to stop me with either silly aphorisms or the law. > Tis folly to commit suicide anyway – you give in to the stereotype about > death and dying — which is not it is cracked up to be. > It’s like voiding a contract you have undertaken (spiritually) to uphold.

Says who? I signed nothing.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Your Name Here=Harvey wrote: > In article <1104078329.981574.99…@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com>, > kittner12…@yahoo.com says… > >CTS wrote: > >Where I live, you can now get a ticket for this. I was pulled over for > >this, but just received a warning. I find this ridiculous, since I’m > >not really putting anyone else at risk by not wearing a seatbelt, so > >why should it matter? > >In contrast, people are allowed to yap away on a cell phone while > >giving maybe half of their attention to the road, and this is perfectly > >legal. I used to work in road construction, and one day I just stood > >back and observed how many people passing by were using cell phones. It > >must have been in the neighborhood of 75%. Is there really any > >conversation that important that it can’t wait until you can have a > >face to face conversation, or at least wait until you are no longer > >operating an auto mobile, to have? > Everyone’s life impact upon others. > If you take your own life – it is not yourself that you are hurting.

By that logic, when someone murders you, he’s not really hurting you. > Tis folly to commit suicide anyway – you give in to the stereotype about > death and dying — which is not it is cracked up to be.

The point was about whether or not government has the right to force you to make "Good Choices" (from the standpoint of someone who wants to live).

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -CTS wrote: > "Gray Loser" wrote in message > news:1104028306.310620.74230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > > CTS wrote: > > > "Gray Loser" wrote in message > > > news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > > > > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse > > > > to just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was > > > > coming up. > > > It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt. > > A seat belt would not have saved me, I don’t think. The car would have > > just disintegrated. > It’s my fault I wasn’t clear here. I mean to say that I don’t wear a > seatbelt in general because dying in a car crash doesn’t sound too > unappealing to me.

I understood. I wouldn’t mind dying in a car crash, either. That’s what I meant — that I could safely have driven into the tunnel wall, *with* my seatbelt on, and still have had a very good chance of dying. > Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a > cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk.

Being a veggie doesn’t bother me (it wouldn’t be me anymore). It would probably bother my family quite a bit, though. What bothers me is the possibility of surviving thanks to the miracle of modern medicine, only to have to live out the rest of my days in agonizing pain. > Actually, this is something that irritates me. It’s illegal not to wear a > belt, even though you pretty much only endanger yourself. Yet you can drink > up to the limit, distract you concentration from the road with a handsfree > mobile, obstruct your vision with all kinds of stupid window stickers, not > have both hands on the wheel because you’re smoking/drinking, and drive > beyond your ability on a NSL road. But you’ll get a ticket if you’re not > wearing a seatbelt…

Yup, that’s gov’t as Big Nanny.

Response:

"Gray Loser" wrote in message

news:1104028306.310620.74230@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > CTS wrote: > > "Gray Loser" wrote in message > > news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > > > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse > > > to just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was > > > coming up. > > It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt. > A seat belt would not have saved me, I don’t think. The car would have > just disintegrated.

It’s my fault I wasn’t clear here. I mean to say that I don’t wear a seatbelt in general because dying in a car crash doesn’t sound too unappealing to me. Knowing my luck I’d probably end up a veggie or a cripple, but hey, what doesn’t carry that risk. Actually, this is something that irritates me. It’s illegal not to wear a belt, even though you pretty much only endanger yourself. Yet you can drink up to the limit, distract you concentration from the road with a handsfree mobile, obstruct your vision with all kinds of stupid window stickers, not have both hands on the wheel because you’re smoking/drinking, and drive beyond your ability on a NSL road. But you’ll get a ticket if you’re not wearing a seatbelt…

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A seat belt would not have saved me, I don’t think. The car would have just disintegrated.

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jim wrote: > "Beowulf Trollshammer" wrote >> So anyway, it was like Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:32:22 +0000, you know? >> Oh, and, yeah, franco was all like, "Dude, >>> This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and >>> lonely, >> For most that is only a temporary situation. >>> that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in >>> them, >> Yet. > You and your adverbs of optimism…

I thought BT’s post hit the spot in every way. – Michaela

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This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and lonely, that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in them, that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have been much better if they have never been born in the first place. They will likely give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and honorable way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless, they don’t want to delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world and its creator make me sick!

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It’s sure they don’t public the real number of how many give up in this way. I don’ t know many folks, but I know two that after committed suicide, I was told. One was a man I have worked with for a short period of time, and the other was a 14 yo girl who lived in a flat downstair with its family. And many young death are related to car accidents or other dangerous behaviours, tipical of who don’t care much of its life. "franco" wrote in message

news:332ukmF3rbh5aU1@individual.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and lonely, > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in them, > that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have been > much better if they have never been born in the first place. They will likely > give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and honorable > way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless, they don’t want to > delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world and its creator make me > sick!

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franco writes: > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and lonely, > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in them, > that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have been > much better if they have never been born in the first place. They will likely > give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and honorable > way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless, they don’t want to > delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world and its creator make me > sick!

It’s natural selection. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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Good post!

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Soon or later your time will come too. ) "Mxsmanic" wrote in message

news:djoos0tn7hbhgaqutvhr62k7thc6crgem8@4ax.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> franco writes: > > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and lonely, > > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in them, > > that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have been > > much better if they have never been born in the first place. They will likely > > give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and honorable > > way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless, they don’t want to > > delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world and its creator make me > > sick! > It’s natural selection. > — > Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

Response:

So anyway, it was like Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:32:22 +0000, you know? Oh, and, yeah, franco was all like, "Dude, > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and > lonely,

For most that is only a temporary situation. > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in > them,

Yet. > that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have > been much better if they have never been born in the first place.

I’m quite sure only a very small minority of A.S.S.ers fall in this category (Jim Suckers and friends) > give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and > honorable way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless

So, are you telling us that you know for sure that every person in the world that is experiencing suicidal feelings in this very moment because of loneliness have absolutely zero chance of ever finding a mate? What have you got there, a crystal ball or something? You’re making an awful lot of assumptions here. > they don’t want to delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world > and its creator make me sick!

Yeah, dating sucks, doesn’t it? it sucks to be rejected, and it sucks to be alone, but the simple fact is you can’t overcome the latter without experiencing the former. Unless you have a terminal disease or look worse than the elephant man you should never give up. — You can either change the way you do things, which is called growth, or you can keep everything the same and wail about how life is unfair, which is called ressentiment. -Eric Pepke

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>Good post!

Hard to say how many…I dont know all of bhp’s sock puppets. some are being born as Iam posting this

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"Drakeman" writes: > Soon or later your time will come too. )

No doubt, but I don’t expect it to be suicide. — Transpose hotmail and mxsmanic in my e-mail address to reach me directly.

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"Beowulf Trollshammer" wrote in message

news:pan.2004.12.24.21.40.37.960719@lycos.com… > So anyway, it was like Fri, 24 Dec 2004 16:32:22 +0000, you know? Oh, and, > yeah, franco was all like, "Dude, > > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and > > lonely, > For most that is only a temporary situation. > > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in > > them, > Yet.

You and your adverbs of optimism…

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -franco wrote: > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and lonely, > that no girl in this world is romantically or socially interested in them, > that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale and that it would have been > much better if they have never been born in the first place. They will likely > give up and blow their brains out. It’s probably the most logical and honorable > way out because no matter how hard they try, it’s hopeless, they don’t want to > delude themselves anymore. What a shame! This world and its creator make me > sick!

Yes, the holidays invariably inspire thoughts of suicide in me. The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse to just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was coming up. That would have been a Princess Di-style exeunt!

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"Gray Loser" wrote in message

news:1103971885.200023.118960@f14g2000cwb.googlegroups.com… > The other day, I was driving, and got an extremely strong impulse to > just speed up to 90 and ram into a concrete tunnel that was coming up.

It’s for this reason I don’t wear a seat belt.

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franco wrote: > This holiday season, many guys will realize that they are alone and > lonely, that no girl in this world is romantically or socially > interested in them, that they are the scum on the evolutionary scale > and that it would have been much better if they have never been born > in the first place.

It’s entirely possible that the delusion is that the above is true. – Michaela

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having a bad day

admin — Thu, 04 Mar 2004 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I think the whole thing is troubling me. Having to deal with the aftermath of a divorce. Great I can overcome the loniness then I have to see him with his girfriend and some one tells me how they have been meeting for lunch for the last few years. Over come that then he tells me they will be spending our kids collage fund to buy a house then then then. It never ends I need peace. I can’t take the angry in his voice when I call and say the boys want to be with their friends and not hang out with him he made this mess but I have to live in this quagmire. This is not my only stop, but when ever something happens I am sure to fine someone here that has experianced the same thing and it has stopped me from making some mistakes or to see the mistakes that I have made. I know I am the only one that can get to the top of the hill and the more I hold onto my angry and my past the farther the top of that hill will be.

Perhaps I’m wrong, but it seems to me you have alot of smaller problems that combined, are stressing you. I don’t know of anyone who can deal with all of it at once, I sure couldn’t. My advice is to stop kicking yourself and work on fixing one or two things at a time. Okay, one at a time… First, why do you have to see him and his GF? Are you both in the PTA together? You need a bit of distance, don’t be afraid to tell him he’s a unwelcome sight. You say he’s planning on raiding the kids collage fund… you may wish to discuss this with your lawyer as this is a joint asset set aside from the both of you. He’s angry on the phone you say, well quit calling him. I know that seems silly, but it fixes the problem. And if he can’t call you without acting the ass, hang up on him. Divide and conqure, one battle at a time…. Goodluck. "to mold a new reality, closer to the heart" RUSH

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I am feeling very beat up latley. I come and read here and try to gain some insight and I do, things do get better they are better than last month much better than last year but they still stink. the loneliness the struggle the worry they don’t lessen you just carry them around and they start weighing you down. Dee

Sometime life seems so bland, cold and hard… I don’t know exactly what is troubling you, but perhaps offer a diffrent viewpoint. You can gain some insight and wisdom here, but this shouldn’t be your only stop in the search for answers you seek. You say life is better than last year, better than last month.. could it be that your reaching the top of this hill? You could be there.. so hang on and keep climbing that hill. As to loneliness, mabey it’s time you started reaching out, to family, too old friends, to neighbors and even a few strangers… Goodluck. "to mold a new reality, closer to the heart" RUSH

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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Sometime life seems so bland, cold and hard… I don’t know exactly what is troubling you, but perhaps offer a diffrent viewpoint. You can gain some insight and wisdom here, but this shouldn’t be your only stop in the search for answers you seek. You say life is better than last year, better than last month.. could it be that your reaching the top of this hill? You could be there.. so hang on and keep climbing that hill. As to loneliness, mabey it’s time you started reaching out, to family, too old friends, to neighbors and even a few strangers… Goodluck. I think the whole thing is troubling me. Having to deal with the

aftermath of a divorce. Great I can overcome the loniness then I have to see him with his girfriend and some one tells me how they have been meeting for lunch for the last few years. Over come that then he tells me they will be spending our kids collage fund to buy a house then then then. It never ends I need peace. I can’t take the angry in his voice when I call and say the boys want to be with their friends and not hang out with him he made this mess but I have to live in this quagmire. This is not my only stop, but when ever something happens I am sure to fine someone here that has experianced the same thing and it has stopped me from making some mistakes or to see the mistakes that I have made. I know I am the only one that can get to the top of the hill and the more I hold onto my angry and my past the farther the top of that hill will be. I wondered were all my old friends went and as I was sitting at a product party I realized that I had nothing to talk about as they were all talking about how they do this and that with husband and remember when husband and I did this etc. I could not relate my storys any more I spent my whole adult life with this man and now all my memories are tainted everything that I thought was good or fun or even brilliant always ends with ya great but look were it got you. rant rant rant rant rant I am even sick of my self. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – "to mold a new reality, closer to the heart" RUSH

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it’s also true that people who’ve never known pain have fewer dimensions….I find them profoundly uninteresting. Folks who’ve overcome challenges, or clawed their way up glaciers, have more than calluses; they have gravitas! They have empathy. They have character. but all the aphorisms are wearing on me, I’m like a perpetual rewind/replay, blah blah yadda yadda . . . yo soy quel boring! Off I go. I just pushed my kayak over the lip and GOOSH!

"- This is very interesting. I printed it for further thought.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always love this section from The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran : "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy; And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields. And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity: For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen, And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears." http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibtable.html – The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran I am feeling very beat up latley. I come and read here and try to gain some insight and I do, things do get better they are better than last month much better than last year but they still stink. the loneliness the struggle the worry they don’t lessen you just carry them around and they start weighing you down. Dee

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(snip) then then then. It never ends I need peace. I can’t take the angry in his voice when I call and say the boys want to be with their friends and not hang out with him he made this mess but I have to live in this quagmire. that I have made. I know I am the only one that can get to the top of the hill and the more I hold onto my angry and my past the farther the top of that hill will be. I spent my whole adult life with this man and now all my memories are tainted everything that I thought was good or fun or even brilliant always ends with ya great but look were it got you. rant rant rant rant rant I am even sick of my self. I love that! I was reading your rant and empathizing so deeply, nodding my head, and I got to your last few words and laughed because just last night I thought the exact same thing: "I’m sick of myself." I think this is a good sign, that you think that! It shows you have some perspective and possibly even a little humor. It IS awful, it IS ghastly, it is stupendously painful and difficult and unbearable….and just when you think you can’t go on, you go on. minute to minute. and the pain can be like an entire-body open wound. Just hang on, for yourself and your kids. "to mold a new reality, closer to the heart" RUSH

Response:

"- This is very interesting. I printed it for further thought. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I always love this section from The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran : "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy; And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields. And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity: For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen, And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears." http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibtable.html – The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran I am feeling very beat up latley. I come and read here and try to gain some insight and I do, things do get better they are better than last month much better than last year but they still stink. the loneliness the struggle the worry they don’t lessen you just carry them around and they start weighing you down. Dee

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It’s the rollercoaster…

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Does that mean I shouldn’t have my third Rum N Coke? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – It’s the rollercoaster…

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I think sometimes we just have to ride the waves… go with the flow in a manner of speaking. Perhaps the tide will turn soon. As they say, "A rising tide lifts all boats." [Rog']

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I always love this section from The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran : "Your pain is the breaking of the shell that encloses your understanding. Even as the stone of the fruit must break, that its heart may stand in the sun, so must you know pain. And could you keep your heart in wonder at the daily miracles of your life, your pain would not seem less wondrous than your joy; And you would accept the seasons of your heart, even as you have always accepted the seasons that pass over your fields. And you would watch with serenity through the winters of your grief. Much of your pain is self-chosen. It is the bitter potion by which the physician within you heals your sick self. Therefore trust the physician, and drink his remedy in silence and tranquillity: For his hand, though heavy and hard, is guided by the tender hand of the Unseen, And the cup he brings, though it burn your lips, has been fashioned of the clay which the Potter has moistened with His own sacred tears." http://www.columbia.edu/~gm84/gibtable.html – The PROPHET, by Kahlil Gibran

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I am feeling very beat up latley. I come and read here and try to gain some insight and I do, things do get better they are better than last month much better than last year but they still stink. the loneliness the struggle the worry they don’t lessen you just carry them around and they start weighing you down. Dee

Response:

About love in one's life

admin — Mon, 15 Sep 2003 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Er, right. It’s just another meditation thing that people are going to be going through. The more I hear about it, well the more I’ll ignore it because I’ll probably hear about it through the media, and I really hate the media. I’m perfectly happy with my views on life and ’spirituality’. I am just always unhappy when someone tries to justify romantic love as something almost godlike, because it seems to me the evidence overwhelmingly points to it being something COMPLETELY human, about instinct, posession, and sex. Just another person trying to dress fucking up in flowery words. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Love *is* powerful. I just don’t think it’s what we think it is. I’ll take a > wild > guess that the love that New Agers — or at least some areas of New Age > – talk about has less to do with passion (which is exceptionally > conditional) than it has to do with the spirit’s love (entirely > unconditional). > The spirit being that very core within all of us. That which makes us ‘one’. > If I am you at my core, I must love you as such. Didn’t Jesus say something > to the effect of "treat them as you would have them treat you"? > Homosexuals, imo aren’t hurting anyone. That which happens here on earth > is not real. They are just experiencing life a little differently. Hell, > maybe > they’re homosexuals because they treated a homosexual badly in their > previous life and now they need to know how it feels? I don’t know… > I still don’t buy into reincarnation. > But I am starting to realise that time doesn’t exist and that everything is > happening all at once. Something to the effect of "in the same moment > we split from the being, we joined him again." Sorry that one’s particularly > difficult to articulate. > It seems to me at least that Harvey’s right: we will keep hearing more and > more of this stuff. But as Eerie said, it has been around for ages. I just > think > that due to technology, ideas can circulate much faster nowadays. > Otoh, once one has started on their spiritual path, one keeps meeting more > and more people on their own path. Life is like that. So it does indeed feel > as > if more people are suddenly becoming turned on to enlightenment. > – Michaela

Response:

As I said earlier, I’m going to come back as a sprout. OTS "OB" wrote in message

news:6ebc501c.0309171031.32793729@posting.google.com… > kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in

message … – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual > > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in different > > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > > versa. > > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > > Harvey > Let’s get this straight. You believe that people have (at least) a > body, a mind and a "spirit" (whatever this is). Possibly other stuff, > like a "soul", but let’s stick to the first three. It’s well known > that people’s bodies can be male or female. According to a fairly > broad consensus, minds also display sexual dimorphism, such that one > can have a "female mind trapped in a male body", e.g. Now you’re > saying that "spirits" are also gendered? And worse still, that they > display "orientation", the same as minds (and arguably, bodies) do? So > in sum, we have an array of three gender variables each with a number > of possible values equalling the number of available genders (2) times > the number of available orientations (3? straight, gay or bi, leaving > out the theoretical possibility of "asexual" as an orientation). Thus > each person’s full gender/orientation description can have any of 216 > possible values, including such interesting combinations as "a lesbian > spirit and a homosexual male mind trapped in a straight male body", > not to be confused with "a male bisexual spirit and a heterosexual > female mind comfortably clothed in a gay male body", etc. > No wonder it’s so hard to find someone you can really feel comfortable > with. > > In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, mr_teatime007 > > @hotmail.com says… > > >I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why two > > >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at each > > >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? > > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > > >> lifetimes to attain? > > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > > stronger > > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > > >> love bestows. > > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, > > you > > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > > >> Harvey

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 – Release Date: 18/09/2003

Response:

You are what you are – and you are what you want to be. Harvey In article , omega.point@ntlworld .com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->As I said earlier, I’m going to come back as a sprout. >OTS >"OB" wrote in message >news:6ebc501c.0309171031.32793729@posting.google.com… >> kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in >message … >> > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and >heterosexual >> > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. >> > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in >different >> > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice >> > versa. >> > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in >> > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. >> > Harvey >> Let’s get this straight. You believe that people have (at least) a >> body, a mind and a "spirit" (whatever this is). Possibly other stuff, >> like a "soul", but let’s stick to the first three. It’s well known >> that people’s bodies can be male or female. According to a fairly >> broad consensus, minds also display sexual dimorphism, such that one >> can have a "female mind trapped in a male body", e.g. Now you’re >> saying that "spirits" are also gendered? And worse still, that they >> display "orientation", the same as minds (and arguably, bodies) do? So >> in sum, we have an array of three gender variables each with a number >> of possible values equalling the number of available genders (2) times >> the number of available orientations (3? straight, gay or bi, leaving >> out the theoretical possibility of "asexual" as an orientation). Thus >> each person’s full gender/orientation description can have any of 216 >> possible values, including such interesting combinations as "a lesbian >> spirit and a homosexual male mind trapped in a straight male body", >> not to be confused with "a male bisexual spirit and a heterosexual >> female mind comfortably clothed in a gay male body", etc. >> No wonder it’s so hard to find someone you can really feel comfortable >> with. >> > In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, >mr_teatime007 >> > @hotmail.com says… >> > >I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why >two >> > >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at >each >> > >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? >> > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van >Praagh, >> > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. >> > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are >born >> > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned >to >> > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, >perhaps, >> > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to >strive >> > >> lifetimes to attain? >> > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that >God >> > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented >spiritually >> > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the >> > stronger >> > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this >sense >> > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it >from >> > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of >our >> > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. >> > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. >> > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it >is >> > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the >light >> > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they >are >> > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy >that >> > >> love bestows. >> > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the >deepest >> > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like >someone >> > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each >time >> > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to >someone, >> > you >> > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center >expands. >> > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty >and >> > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. >> > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out >from the >> > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to >know >> > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. >> > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, >> > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of >talking] >> > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to >it, >> > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for >’reality’ >> > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is >hogwash. >> > >> Harvey >— >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). >Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 – Release Date: 18/09/2003

Response:

Sprouts unconditionally love. OTS "Michaela" wrote in message

news:3271bf15.0310060223.7b90c729@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Mr. Teatime" wrote > > "arie" wrote > > > Mr. Teatime wrote > > > >"My name = Harvey" wrote > > > >> There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and > > heterosexual > > > >> love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > > > >> Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > > different > > > >> lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > > > >> versa. > > > >> I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > > > >> detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > > > >> Harvey > > > >I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so > > powerful, > > > >why is it limited by sex? > > > It’s not. > > The ‘romantic love’ the original poster was babbling about is, and that’s > > what I’m talking about, the type of ‘love’ that one feels for a romantic > > partner. > Imo romantic love isn’t love. The main > differences between romantic ‘love’ and real > love is that one takes no effort and the other > is all effort. Real love is about doing good > to and for others with no hope or desire of > anything in return. Romantic ‘love’ is about > doing things for one’s partner in the hope that > they will appreciate you and feel beholden to > you and that they won’t try to look for greener > grass and because you FEAR that if you don’t > look after them, they will lose interest in > you. > Real love is unconditional and romantic love > is conditional: "I will love you as long as > you don’t change"; "I will love you as long as > you do what makes me happy"; "I will love you > because you have beautiful hair/a great ass/ > make enough $$$/buy me nice things/etc." > The confusion comes in because people have > expectations of the other without being > prepared to do the same in return. > I cannot hope to gain real love from someone > by using a conditional approach. > – Michaela

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.524 / Virus Database: 321 – Release Date: 06/10/2003

Response:

You can have any kind of love you wish for, in your romantic relationship – even a deep spiritual unconditional love, in which you love simply because you wish to. That’s the thing about what you desire, in your own reasoning and logic – you can have it any way you wish it to. I don’t think that real love obeys laws and is subject to conditions. That love can have it’s own nature, and it’s own laws – and giving in to love, can be the most wonderful thing you can ever experience, and it can be ‘real’ with the right person who appreciates such love. Maybe I am living in a dream, and when I wake up, I will be in the real world – meaning, the world over there, when you pass from this dream, of a life. And waking up, as via suicide is like waking up from a nightmare – Oh, what have I done? kind of one. Harvey In article <3271bf15.0310060223.7b90c…@posting.google.com>, michaelamackenzie05072…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"Mr. Teatime" wrote >> "arie" wrote >> > Mr. Teatime wrote >> > >"My name = Harvey" wrote >> > >> There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and >> heterosexual >> > >> love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. >> > >> Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in >> different >> > >> lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice >> > >> versa. >> > >> I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in >> > >> detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. >> > >> Harvey >> > >I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so >> powerful, >> > >why is it limited by sex? >> > It’s not. >> The ‘romantic love’ the original poster was babbling about is, and that’s >> what I’m talking about, the type of ‘love’ that one feels for a romantic >> partner. >Imo romantic love isn’t love. The main >differences between romantic ‘love’ and real >love is that one takes no effort and the other >is all effort. Real love is about doing good >to and for others with no hope or desire of >anything in return. Romantic ‘love’ is about >doing things for one’s partner in the hope that >they will appreciate you and feel beholden to >you and that they won’t try to look for greener >grass and because you FEAR that if you don’t >look after them, they will lose interest in >you. >Real love is unconditional and romantic love >is conditional: "I will love you as long as >you don’t change"; "I will love you as long as >you do what makes me happy"; "I will love you >because you have beautiful hair/a great ass/ >make enough $$$/buy me nice things/etc." >The confusion comes in because people have >expectations of the other without being >prepared to do the same in return. >I cannot hope to gain real love from someone >by using a conditional approach. >- Michaela

Response:

"Mr. Teatime" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "arie" wrote > > Mr. Teatime wrote > > >"My name = Harvey" wrote > > >> There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and > heterosexual > > >> love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > > >> Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > different > > >> lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > > >> versa. > > >> I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > > >> detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > > >> Harvey > > >I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so > powerful, > > >why is it limited by sex? > > It’s not. > The ‘romantic love’ the original poster was babbling about is, and that’s > what I’m talking about, the type of ‘love’ that one feels for a romantic > partner.

Imo romantic love isn’t love. The main differences between romantic ‘love’ and real love is that one takes no effort and the other is all effort. Real love is about doing good to and for others with no hope or desire of anything in return. Romantic ‘love’ is about doing things for one’s partner in the hope that they will appreciate you and feel beholden to you and that they won’t try to look for greener grass and because you FEAR that if you don’t look after them, they will lose interest in you. Real love is unconditional and romantic love is conditional: "I will love you as long as you don’t change"; "I will love you as long as you do what makes me happy"; "I will love you because you have beautiful hair/a great ass/ make enough $$$/buy me nice things/etc." The confusion comes in because people have expectations of the other without being prepared to do the same in return. I cannot hope to gain real love from someone by using a conditional approach. – Michaela

Response:

"Mr. Teatime" wrote in message … > Er, right. It’s just another meditation thing that people are going to be > going through. The more I hear about it, well the more I’ll ignore it > because I’ll probably hear about it through the media, and I really hate the > media. I’m perfectly happy with my views on life and ’spirituality’. I am > just always unhappy when someone tries to justify romantic love as something > almost godlike, because it seems to me the evidence overwhelmingly points to > it being something COMPLETELY human, about instinct, posession, and sex. > Just another person trying to dress fucking up in flowery words.

I harbor the same skepticism you do WRT such vague talk. The Bible I’ll take as poetry, thank ye very much, but most others I look at with the greatest and gravest askance. Even M. Scott Peck, of "The Road Less Traveled" fame (which has spawned a sequel and a "workbook" to boot!). If you are like me (well, I’m not unhappy usually, though I can’t say that I’m exactly happy either), then you might learn something from Erich Fromm’s "Art of Loving". It’s very straightforward, no tripe about "the light" and so forth, and quite analytical. Of course, it winds up a bit mystical towards the end, insofar as it leaves the matter of "theory" and prepares for "practice", but given the subject matter, a sense of wonder and awe cannot be helped, and is frankly much in keeping, even necessary. Put it this way: it’s the ONLY book out there which will tell you the truth, that love isn’t the easiest thing, that it’s the hardest thing anyone can attempt (including these New Age babes and gurus). It’s the only one that simply looks at the problem, at the issues involved. It actually defines that amorphous word, "love", instead of presuming that we’re all on the same page. It’s the only book that will tell you that the whole concept of love is "invented" by HUMAN BEINGS, there’s nothing "divine" about it in the way meant colloquially. But it’s not as vulgarly iconoclastic as I may be representing it; it’s just, as I’ve said, straightforward. Even with the bit of mysticism at the end (quoting the Sufi poet Rumi). As for myself, I’m still wallowing, not unlike Sissyphus, not unhappily in a way, with just sex and the singles scene. But I do thank that slim volume for enlightening me to my own true motives.

Response:

For my money and time, nothing but nothing — not even the Bible itself — beats the clear wisdom of Erich Fromm’s classic "Art of Loving"; no dewy-eyed claptrap here. With such help, I realize how far from loving I am, how hard it is to love and keep loving — of even myself. From the first few pages: "The reading of this book would be a disappointing experience for anyone who expects easy instruction in the art of loving. This book, on the contrary, wants to show that love is not a sentiment which can be easily indulged in by by anyone, regardless of the level of maturity reached by him. It wants to convince the reader that all his attempts for love are bound to fail, unless he tries most actively to develop his total personality, so as to achieve a productive orientation; that satisfaction in individual love cannot be attained without the capacity to love one’s neighbor, without true humility, courage, faith, and discipline…. "Is love an art? Then it requires knowledge and effort. Or is love a pleasant sensation, which to experience is a matter of chance, something one "falls into" if one is lucky? This little book is based on the former premise, while undoubtedly the majority of people today believe in the latter. "Not that people think that love is not important. They are starved for it; they watch endless numbers of films about happy and unhappy love stories, they listen to hundreds of trashy songs about love — yet hardly anyone thinks that there is anything that needs to be learned about love. "This peculiar attitude is basd on several premises which either singly or combined tend to uphold it. Most people see the problem of love primarily as that of *being loved*, rather than that of *loving*, of one’s capacity to love. Hence the problem to them is how to be loved, how to be lovable. In pursuit of this aim they follow several paths. One, which is especially used by men, is to be successful, to be as powerful and rich as the social margin of one’s position permits. Another, used especially by women, is to make oneself attractive, by cultivating one’s body, dress, etc. Other ways of making oneself attractive, used by both men and women, are to develop pleasant manners, interesting conversation, to be helpful, modest, inoffensive. Many of the ways to make oneself lovable are the same as those used to make onself successful, "to win friends and influence people". As a matter of fact, what most people in our culture mean by being lovable is essentially a mixture between being popular and having sex appeal. "A second premise behind the attitude that there is nothing to be learned about love is the assumption that the problem of love is the problem of an *object*, not the problem of a *faculty*. People think that to *love* is simple, but that to find the right object to love — or to be loved by — is difficult…. "The third error leading to the assumption that there is nothing to be learned about love lies in the confusion between the initial experience of "*falling*" in love, and the permanent state of *being* in love, or as we might better say, of "standing" in love. If two people who have been strangers, as all of us are, suddenly let the wall between them break down, and feel close, feel one, this moment of oneness is one of the most exhilarating, most exciting experiences in life. It is all the more wonderful and miraculous for persons who have been shut off, isolated, without love. This miracle of sudden intimacy is often facilitated if it is combined with, or initiated by, sexual attraction and consummation. However, this type of love is by its very nature not lasting. The two persons become well acquainted, their intimacy loses more and more its miraculous character, until their antagonism, their disappointments, their mutual boredom kill whatever is left of the initial excitement. Yet, in the beginning they do not know all this: in fact, they take the intensity of the infatuation, this being "crazy" about each other, for proof of the intensity of their love, while it may only prove the degree of their preceding loneliness. "This attitude — that nothing is easier than to love — has continued to be the prevalent idea about love in spite of the overwhelming evidence to the contrary. There is hardly any activity, any enterprise, which is started with such tremendous hopes and expectations, and yet, which fails so regularly, as love. If this were the case with any other activity, people would be eager to know the reasons for the failure, and to learn how one could do better — or they would give up the activity. Since the latter is impossible in the case of love, there seems to be only one adequate way to overcome the failure of love — to examine the reasons for this failure, and to proceed to study the meaning of love. "The first step to take is to become aware that *love is an art*, just as living is an art; if we want to learn how to love we must proceed in the same way we have to proceed if we want to learn any other art, say music, painting, carpentry, or the art of medicine or engineering. "What are the necessary steps in learning any art? "The process of learning an art can be divided conveniently into two parts: one, the mastery of the theory; the other, the mastery of the practice…. "I. Love, the Answer to the Problem of Human Existence "Any theory of love must begin with a theory of man, of human existence….

Response:

Yes, I want to be a sprout. OTS "My name = Harvey" wrote in message news:9fJbb.3108$tv1.383771@news02.tsnz.net… > You are what you are – and you are what you want to be. > Harvey > In article ,

omega.point@ntlworld – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> .com says… > >As I said earlier, I’m going to come back as a sprout. > >OTS > >"OB" wrote in message > >news:6ebc501c.0309171031.32793729@posting.google.com… > >> kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in > >message … > >> > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and > >heterosexual > >> > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > >> > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > >different > >> > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > >> > versa. > >> > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > >> > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > >> > Harvey > >> Let’s get this straight. You believe that people have (at least) a > >> body, a mind and a "spirit" (whatever this is). Possibly other stuff, > >> like a "soul", but let’s stick to the first three. It’s well known > >> that people’s bodies can be male or female. According to a fairly > >> broad consensus, minds also display sexual dimorphism, such that one > >> can have a "female mind trapped in a male body", e.g. Now you’re > >> saying that "spirits" are also gendered? And worse still, that they > >> display "orientation", the same as minds (and arguably, bodies) do? So > >> in sum, we have an array of three gender variables each with a number > >> of possible values equalling the number of available genders (2) times > >> the number of available orientations (3? straight, gay or bi, leaving > >> out the theoretical possibility of "asexual" as an orientation). Thus > >> each person’s full gender/orientation description can have any of 216 > >> possible values, including such interesting combinations as "a lesbian > >> spirit and a homosexual male mind trapped in a straight male body", > >> not to be confused with "a male bisexual spirit and a heterosexual > >> female mind comfortably clothed in a gay male body", etc. > >> No wonder it’s so hard to find someone you can really feel comfortable > >> with. > >> > In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, > >mr_teatime007 > >> > @hotmail.com says… > >> > >I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why > >two > >> > >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at > >each > >> > >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? > >> > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van > >Praagh, > >> > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > >> > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are > >born > >> > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned > >to > >> > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, > >perhaps, > >> > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to > >strive > >> > >> lifetimes to attain? > >> > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that > >God > >> > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented > >spiritually > >> > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > >> > stronger > >> > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this > >sense > >> > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it > >from > >> > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of > >our > >> > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > >> > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > >> > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it > >is > >> > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the > >light > >> > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they > >are > >> > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy > >that > >> > >> love bestows. > >> > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the > >deepest > >> > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like > >someone > >> > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each > >time > >> > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to > >someone, > >> > you > >> > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center > >expands. > >> > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty > >and > >> > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > >> > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out > >from the > >> > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to > >know > >> > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > >> > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > >> > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of > >talking] > >> > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to > >it, > >> > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for > >’reality’ > >> > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is > >hogwash. > >> > >> Harvey > >— > >Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > >Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > >Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 – Release Date: 18/09/2003

— Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.522 / Virus Database: 320 – Release Date: 29/09/2003

Response:

By 216, is that combinations or permutations. Cause I just think the order in which your various selves are gay straight or bi probably isn’t important. "HumungousFungusAmongUs" wrote in message

news:bknk1t$3rh1u$1@ID-73971.news.uni-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> As I said earlier, I’m going to come back as a sprout. > OTS > "OB" wrote in message > news:6ebc501c.0309171031.32793729@posting.google.com… > > kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in > message … > > > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and > heterosexual > > > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > > > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > different > > > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > > > versa. > > > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > > > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > > > Harvey > > Let’s get this straight. You believe that people have (at least) a > > body, a mind and a "spirit" (whatever this is). Possibly other stuff, > > like a "soul", but let’s stick to the first three. It’s well known > > that people’s bodies can be male or female. According to a fairly > > broad consensus, minds also display sexual dimorphism, such that one > > can have a "female mind trapped in a male body", e.g. Now you’re > > saying that "spirits" are also gendered? And worse still, that they > > display "orientation", the same as minds (and arguably, bodies) do? So > > in sum, we have an array of three gender variables each with a number > > of possible values equalling the number of available genders (2) times > > the number of available orientations (3? straight, gay or bi, leaving > > out the theoretical possibility of "asexual" as an orientation). Thus > > each person’s full gender/orientation description can have any of 216 > > possible values, including such interesting combinations as "a lesbian > > spirit and a homosexual male mind trapped in a straight male body", > > not to be confused with "a male bisexual spirit and a heterosexual > > female mind comfortably clothed in a gay male body", etc. > > No wonder it’s so hard to find someone you can really feel comfortable > > with. > > > In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, > mr_teatime007 > > > @hotmail.com says… > > > >I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why > two > > > >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at > each > > > >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? > > > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van > Praagh, > > > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > > > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are > born > > > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned > to > > > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, > perhaps, > > > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to > strive > > > >> lifetimes to attain? > > > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that > God > > > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented > spiritually > > > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > > > stronger > > > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this > sense > > > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it > from > > > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of > our > > > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > > > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > > > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it > is > > > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the > light > > > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they > are > > > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy > that > > > >> love bestows. > > > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the > deepest > > > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like > someone > > > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each > time > > > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to > someone, > > > you > > > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center > expands. > > > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty > and > > > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > > > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out > from the > > > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to > know > > > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > > > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > > > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of > talking] > > > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to > it, > > > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for > ‘reality’ > > > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is > hogwash. > > > >> Harvey > — > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. > Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). > Version: 6.0.520 / Virus Database: 318 – Release Date: 18/09/2003

Response:

If I were a sociopath like many of these snake-oil salesmen, I’d probably make a pretty good living wearing a robe, smiling enimatically a lot, blathering age-old cliches, telling ppl to think positive, feigning contact with the Great Beyond, selling books about UFO contacts, reading bird entrails, etc. "My name = Harvey" wrote in message news:4cB9b.1691$tv1.192803@news02.tsnz.net… > Well we need to be kept on reminded of what is important in life. > Not money, job or success – but ultimately things not material but that > of feelings, heart, and love. Things that do go with you upon your exit here. > And making friends counts for a great deal, etc. > Harvey > In article ,

Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> says… > >This isn’t exactly new stuff, just a retread of stuff that’s been in print > >since pen was put to paper(refer to "Hinduism"). > >"My name = Harvey" wrote in > >message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > >> lifetimes to attain? > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > >stronger > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > >> love bestows. > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, > >you > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > >> Harvey

Response:

"arie" <_arie_@_enschede_._com_> wrote in message

news:bk9p97$c1q$1@news.tudelft.nl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Mr. Teatime wrote in message … > >"My name = Harvey" wrote in > >message news:stR9b.1828$tv1.209032@news02.tsnz.net… > >> There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and > heterosexual > >> love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > >> Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > >different > >> lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > >> versa. > >> I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > >> detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > >> Harvey > >I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so > powerful, > >why is it limited by sex? > It’s not.

The ‘romantic love’ the original poster was babbling about is, and that’s what I’m talking about, the type of ‘love’ that one feels for a romantic partner.

Response:

"Mr. Teatime" wrote – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "My name = Harvey" wrote > > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual > > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in > different > > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > > versa. > > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > > Harvey > I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so powerful, > why is it limited by sex?

Love *is* powerful. I just don’t think it’s what we think it is. I’ll take a wild guess that the love that New Agers — or at least some areas of New Age – talk about has less to do with passion (which is exceptionally conditional) than it has to do with the spirit’s love (entirely unconditional). The spirit being that very core within all of us. That which makes us ‘one’. If I am you at my core, I must love you as such. Didn’t Jesus say something to the effect of "treat them as you would have them treat you"? Homosexuals, imo aren’t hurting anyone. That which happens here on earth is not real. They are just experiencing life a little differently. Hell, maybe they’re homosexuals because they treated a homosexual badly in their previous life and now they need to know how it feels? I don’t know… I still don’t buy into reincarnation. But I am starting to realise that time doesn’t exist and that everything is happening all at once. Something to the effect of "in the same moment we split from the being, we joined him again." Sorry that one’s particularly difficult to articulate. It seems to me at least that Harvey’s right: we will keep hearing more and more of this stuff. But as Eerie said, it has been around for ages. I just think that due to technology, ideas can circulate much faster nowadays. Otoh, once one has started on their spiritual path, one keeps meeting more and more people on their own path. Life is like that. So it does indeed feel as if more people are suddenly becoming turned on to enlightenment. – Michaela

Response:

"My name = Harvey" wrote in message news:stR9b.1828$tv1.209032@news02.tsnz.net… > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in different > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > versa. > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > Harvey

I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so powerful, why is it limited by sex?

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mr. Teatime wrote in message … >"My name = Harvey" wrote in >message news:stR9b.1828$tv1.209032@news02.tsnz.net… >> There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual >> love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. >> Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in >different >> lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice >> versa. >> I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in >> detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. >> Harvey >I was asking why sexuality determines who one loves, if love is so powerful, >why is it limited by sex?

It’s not.

Response:

kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in message … > There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual > love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. > Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in different > lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice > versa. > I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in > detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. > Harvey

Let’s get this straight. You believe that people have (at least) a body, a mind and a "spirit" (whatever this is). Possibly other stuff, like a "soul", but let’s stick to the first three. It’s well known that people’s bodies can be male or female. According to a fairly broad consensus, minds also display sexual dimorphism, such that one can have a "female mind trapped in a male body", e.g. Now you’re saying that "spirits" are also gendered? And worse still, that they display "orientation", the same as minds (and arguably, bodies) do? So in sum, we have an array of three gender variables each with a number of possible values equalling the number of available genders (2) times the number of available orientations (3? straight, gay or bi, leaving out the theoretical possibility of "asexual" as an orientation). Thus each person’s full gender/orientation description can have any of 216 possible values, including such interesting combinations as "a lesbian spirit and a homosexual male mind trapped in a straight male body", not to be confused with "a male bisexual spirit and a heterosexual female mind comfortably clothed in a gay male body", etc. No wonder it’s so hard to find someone you can really feel comfortable with. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, mr_teatime007 > @hotmail.com says… > >I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why two > >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at each > >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? > >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > >> lifetimes to attain? > >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > stronger > >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > >> love bestows. > >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, > you > >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > >> Harvey

Response:

There is of course, no difference between homosexual love and heterosexual love – they are both of passion, spirit and heart. Those believing in reincarnation know that one’s sex does change in different lives – you can have a female spirit in a male physical body, and vice versa. I don’t know the spiritual view about sexual orientation – to know in detail about homosexuals and their lesson here. Harvey In article <90K9b.12283$4W5.107619…@news-text.cableinet.net>, mr_teatime007 @hotmail.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why two >heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at each >other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, >> A spiritual journey through life and death. >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive >> lifetimes to attain? >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the >stronger >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that >> love bestows. >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, >you >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know >> why you’re here on this earth at all. >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. >> Harvey

Response:

I’ll be more willing to believe this when someone can explain to me why two heterosexual males can’t be ‘in love’, or find love in their gaze at each other – because this love is so fucking transcendant, right? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > A spiritual journey through life and death. > What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > lifetimes to attain? > I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the stronger > is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > love bestows. > When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, you > are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > why you’re here on this earth at all. > (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > Harvey

Response:

"Eerie Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" (Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov) writes: > If I were a sociopath like many of these snake-oil salesmen, I’d probably > make a pretty good living wearing a robe, smiling enimatically a lot, > blathering age-old cliches, telling ppl to think positive, feigning contact > with the Great Beyond, selling books about UFO contacts, reading bird > entrails, etc.

You would not read any bird entrails. You’d have to "read mine" first, that is! C – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "My name = Harvey" wrote in > message news:4cB9b.1691$tv1.192803@news02.tsnz.net… >> Well we need to be kept on reminded of what is important in life. >> Not money, job or success – but ultimately things not material but that >> of feelings, heart, and love. Things that do go with you upon your exit > here. >> And making friends counts for a great deal, etc. >> Harvey >> In article , > Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov >> says… >> >This isn’t exactly new stuff, just a retread of stuff that’s been in > print >> >since pen was put to paper(refer to "Hinduism"). >> >"My name = Harvey" wrote in >> >message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… >> >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, >> >> A spiritual journey through life and death. >> >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are > born >> >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to >> >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, >> >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to > strive >> >> lifetimes to attain? >> >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that > God >> >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented > spiritually >> >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the >> >stronger >> >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this > sense >> >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from >> >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our >> >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. >> >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. >> >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is >> >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the > light >> >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they > are >> >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy > that >> >> love bestows. >> >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the > deepest >> >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like > someone >> >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each > time >> >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, >> >you >> >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. >> >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and >> >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. >> >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from > the >> >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know >> >> why you’re here on this earth at all. >> >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, >> >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of > talking] >> >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, >> >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for > ‘reality’ >> >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is > hogwash. >> >> Harvey

–

Response:

*GAG* "Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message

news:bk85dl$1u7$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Eerie Rodent of Unusual Size & Typing Ability" (Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov) writes: > > If I were a sociopath like many of these snake-oil salesmen, I’d probably > > make a pretty good living wearing a robe, smiling enimatically a lot, > > blathering age-old cliches, telling ppl to think positive, feigning contact > > with the Great Beyond, selling books about UFO contacts, reading bird > > entrails, etc. > You would not read any bird entrails. > You’d have to "read mine" first, that is! > C > > "My name = Harvey" wrote in > > message news:4cB9b.1691$tv1.192803@news02.tsnz.net… > >> Well we need to be kept on reminded of what is important in life. > >> Not money, job or success – but ultimately things not material but that > >> of feelings, heart, and love. Things that do go with you upon your exit > > here. > >> And making friends counts for a great deal, etc. > >> Harvey > >> In article , > > Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov > >> says… > >> >This isn’t exactly new stuff, just a retread of stuff that’s been in > > print > >> >since pen was put to paper(refer to "Hinduism"). > >> >"My name = Harvey" wrote in > >> >message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… > >> >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > >> >> A spiritual journey through life and death. > >> >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are > > born > >> >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > >> >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > >> >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to > > strive > >> >> lifetimes to attain? > >> >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that > > God > >> >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented > > spiritually > >> >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the > >> >stronger > >> >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this > > sense > >> >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > >> >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > >> >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > >> >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > >> >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > >> >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the > > light > >> >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they > > are > >> >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy > > that > >> >> love bestows. > >> >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the > > deepest > >> >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like > > someone > >> >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each > > time > >> >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, > >> >you > >> >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > >> >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > >> >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > >> >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from > > the > >> >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > >> >> why you’re here on this earth at all. > >> >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > >> >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of > > talking] > >> >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > >> >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for > > ‘reality’ > >> >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is > > hogwash. > >> >> Harvey > —

Response:

This isn’t exactly new stuff, just a retread of stuff that’s been in print since pen was put to paper(refer to "Hinduism"). "My name = Harvey" wrote in message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > A spiritual journey through life and death. > What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > lifetimes to attain? > I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the stronger > is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > love bestows. > When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, you > are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > why you’re here on this earth at all. > (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > Harvey

Response:

Well we need to be kept on reminded of what is important in life. Not money, job or success – but ultimately things not material but that of feelings, heart, and love. Things that do go with you upon your exit here. And making friends counts for a great deal, etc. Harvey In article , Departm…@fKeepingItReal.gov says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->This isn’t exactly new stuff, just a retread of stuff that’s been in print >since pen was put to paper(refer to "Hinduism"). >"My name = Harvey" wrote in >message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… >> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, >> A spiritual journey through life and death. >> What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born >> with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to >> accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, >> a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive >> lifetimes to attain? >> I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God >> Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually >> by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the >stronger >> is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense >> of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from >> ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our >> light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. >> Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. >> When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is >> easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light >> in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are >> in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that >> love bestows. >> When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest >> center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone >> in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time >> you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, >you >> are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. >> You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and >> joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. >> This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the >> local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know >> why you’re here on this earth at all. >> (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, >> because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] >> whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, >> the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ >> here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. >> Harvey

Response:

kiwilove_nospample…@paradise.net.atearoa (My name = Harvey) wrote in news:4cB9b.1691$tv1.192803@news02.tsnz.net: > Well we need to be kept on reminded of what is important in life. > Not money, job or success – but ultimately things not material but > that of feelings, heart, and love. Things that do go with you upon > your exit here. And making friends counts for a great deal, etc.

And how do we go about this. If we live our life hating ourself and forcing ourselve in to a form of public isolation where everyone else deserves but we do not. How can one who has never accepted themself learn to accepted the love of another, to love themself so that they can accept others love. When you look into the eyes of a young child and see that glow in their face and wonder what there is in you to promts such a reponse. How do they not see the evil in you, the coldness that comes out whenever you see your reflection, the self loathing that follows you. I must stop now before I go farther into the abbys that is my mind.. — The me you see is not the me I be

Response:

This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, A spiritual journey through life and death. What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive lifetimes to attain? I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the stronger is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that love bestows. When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, you are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know why you’re here on this earth at all. (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. Harvey

Response:

"My name = Harvey" wrote in message news:Sju9b.1571$tv1.185410@news02.tsnz.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> This is from a later part of "Reaching to Heaven" by James van Praagh, > A spiritual journey through life and death. > What is this thing called love? Is it a natural instinct that we are born > with? Is it a behaviour that we have to learn and become conditioned to > accept? Is it a feeling captured in a lover’s gaze? Or is it, perhaps, > a mysterious, out-of-reach star — something that we will have to strive > lifetimes to attain? > I personally believe that love is ‘all’. I believe that it is that God > Force energy of which we are a part. This force is represented spiritually > by the Light, and we are of the Light. The brighter our light, the stronger > is our awareness of this part of our nature. We are born with this sense > of our light, and are encouraged either to increase it or hide it from > ourselves and from the rest of the world. Some of us lose sight of our > light and spend our life searching for poor substitutes for love. > Drugs, sex, and violence are some of love’s replacements. > When we begin to recognise the light of love within ourselves, it is > easier to it in another. When two people are "in love", they see the light > in each other. The world outside does not exist for them because they are > in their private world of love, and they feel the splendour and joy that > love bestows. > When you begin to live from the inner light of your soul, the deepest > center of love, you truly begin to live as a spiritual being. Like someone > in love, you experience a relationship with your "heart self". Each time > you have a kind thought, say a kind word, or are of serving to someone, you > are living the divine principle of love, and your love center expands. > You start to see the world through loving eyes and feel the beauty and > joy in all things. In essence, you experience heaven on earth. > This is insightful about a lot of things – worthwhile getting out from the > local library, or even buying – to keep it handy when you need to know > why you’re here on this earth at all. > (and hey, if you don’t believe in this kind of stuff – get use to it, > because you’ll get to hear more and more about it [this kind of talking] > whether in this life, or the next, etc…) The more you listen to it, > the more it makes sense – instead of the crap that passes for ‘reality’ > here – and established thinking, the ‘norm’. etc. That which is hogwash. > Harvey > hogwash is the love in my life

Response:

New to group

admin — Fri, 16 Aug 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hi Niunia, I don’t know how far away Poland is, but it’s very far. tonight i’m not as lonely. I have work tomorrow and that’s around people so i’ll enjoy it. Tess "Niunia" wrote in message

news:ajjq72$dud$1@news.onet.pl… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Sue" wrote: > Hi Tess > Nice to see You there. > I’m Jane and I’m a new here too.My friends call me Niunia, > so be my friend and call me Niunia > > i lived in Perth for a short while. it was near the beach. Scarborough or > > something like it. > I lived and (happily) still live in Poland. How far is it from you? > I even don’t think. But there are no distances here- > it takes less time to send it to You than took the letter and go to my > friend who lives nearly me. > > i am glad to have found this group. i am lonely and depressed. 1am on > friday > > and i’m sitting at my pc crying and drinking because i am lonely. how > > pathetic is that? i know it’s my own fault though but don’t know how to > > overcome it. > I’m glad too Don’t be so lonely – You’ve got Us now > Stop crying- smile )) Everyone is lonely sometimes… > Try don’t think about it that way.I don’t think it’s pathetic – > oh I’m not good as a consoler but you have my best wishes! > > sorry to ramble. just really glad that someone replied to me. > > > is it cold there now? > > Tess > Niunia

Response:

"Willow" wrote in message

news:OVj79.13599$Cq.546512@ozemail.com.au… > It could have been… I’m not too sure of what time I went to bed, but it > wasn’t too late. Where abouts in Oz are you?

I’m in Brisbane – north side – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Wanda > aka Willow > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances > garden gnome > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > Sue wrote in message > news:3d5d1474$0$32491$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > Isn’t it about 11pm there now?? > > Tess > > "Willow" wrote in message > > news:To879.13508$Cq.540779@ozemail.com.au… > > > Hi Sue (or Tessa) > > > I’m in Perth. > > > This is a support group for people who are experiencing loneliness in > one > > > form or another. We talk about a lot of things, including loneliness. > > > Anything goes, even if you just want to share a good joke. > > > — > > > Wanda > > > aka Willow > > > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any > > circumstances > > > garden gnome > > > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > > > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > > > Sue wrote in message > > > news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > > > Hello, > > > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing > > myself > > > > first. Sorry about that. > > > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not > > lonely > > > > like Sue.. > > > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > > > Tess

Response:

"Willow" wrote in message

news:ZUj79.13598$Cq.546427@ozemail.com.au… > Oops. Yes it is still kinda cold. I’m SO glad that I forked out on a gas > heater, despite what it did to my credit card

LOL, we just bought air conditioning for the house. last summer was a killer and i couldn’t stand that kind of heat again. Tess – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> — > Wanda > aka Willow > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances > garden gnome > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > Sue wrote in message > news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > Hello, > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > > first. Sorry about that. > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely > > like Sue.. > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > Tess

Response:

"Sue" wrote:

Hi Tess !! > Hi Niunia, > I don’t know how far away Poland is, but it’s very far.

So we agree . My mum’s friend lives in Mareeba. I think it’s Nth. Qld., isn’t it? I hope I’ll visit her someday I can’t wait that. I hope someday I’ll also visit Scotland, Tibet and Canada. There is much more such places but these are the most important to me. > tonight i’m not as lonely. I have work tomorrow and that’s around people so > i’ll enjoy it.

Big smile appears on my face )))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))))) I’m really really happy because of that – Enjoy it Sometimes tomorrow seems not so bad as we saw it yesterday. Tomorrow is like blank&opened book- Your tomorrow is Your book – You can write there all you want-You make the chioce. I hope all next week will be very happy for you! I’ll keep one’s fingers crossed for you ( I hope this last sentence isn’t my private english grammar ) ) p.s. when is your birthday ? if it’s a secret just leave it without answer.If it’s not I’ll add it to our BC-ASL (Birthday Callendar-Alt.Support.Loneliness) Niunia – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Tess > "Niunia" wrote in message > news:ajjq72$dud$1@news.onet.pl… > > "Sue" wrote: > > Hi Tess > > Nice to see You there. > > I’m Jane and I’m a new here too.My friends call me Niunia, > > so be my friend and call me Niunia > > > i lived in Perth for a short while. it was near the beach. Scarborough > or > > > something like it. > > I lived and (happily) still live in Poland. How far is it from you? > > I even don’t think. But there are no distances here- > > it takes less time to send it to You than took the letter and go to my > > friend who lives nearly me. > > > i am glad to have found this group. i am lonely and depressed. 1am on > > friday > > > and i’m sitting at my pc crying and drinking because i am lonely. how > > > pathetic is that? i know it’s my own fault though but don’t know how to > > > overcome it. > > I’m glad too Don’t be so lonely – You’ve got Us now > > Stop crying- smile )) Everyone is lonely sometimes… > > Try don’t think about it that way.I don’t think it’s pathetic – > > oh I’m not good as a consoler but you have my best wishes! > > > sorry to ramble. just really glad that someone replied to me. > > > > > is it cold there now? > > > Tess > > Niunia

Response:

Hi Wanda i lived in Perth for a short while. it was near the beach. Scarborough or something like it. i am glad to have found this group. i am lonely and depressed. 1am on friday and i’m sitting at my pc crying and drinking because i am lonely. how pathetic is that? i know it’s my own fault though but don’t know how to overcome it. sorry to ramble. just really glad that someone replied to me. is it cold there now? Tess "Willow" wrote in message

news:To879.13508$Cq.540779@ozemail.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Sue (or Tessa) > I’m in Perth. > This is a support group for people who are experiencing loneliness in one > form or another. We talk about a lot of things, including loneliness. > Anything goes, even if you just want to share a good joke. > — > Wanda > aka Willow > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances > garden gnome > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > Sue wrote in message > news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > Hello, > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > > first. Sorry about that. > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely > > like Sue.. > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > Tess

Response:

Isn’t it about 11pm there now?? Tess "Willow" wrote in message

Response:

On Sat, 17 Aug 2002 00:48:41 +1000, "Sue" wrote: >Hello, >Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself >first. Sorry about that. >Can someone tell me what this list is about? >I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely >like Sue.. >Anyone else here from Oz? >Tess

Welcome Tess. Lovely name….both of them. :-) Miss Jaime (Hamilton, Ontario CANADA)

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -"Sue" (tess…@optushome.com.au) writes: > Hello, > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > first. Sorry about that. > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely > like Sue.. > Anyone else here from Oz? > Tess

Hi, Tessa Sue!:) Wlecome to the bunch. As you might see from reading the posts, there is no subject restricted. The ng being unmoderated, it woudl be ludicrous to even think of defining topics and all that. I think this is a major reason why it is so active lately. Many various thigns and lifestyles and topics and issues and all that. So anything goes:) You will find quite a few from Oz here, and the neighboring areas (NZ for instance). Hope you enjoy your time here!:) Chloe —

Response:

"Eleonore Beaudoin" wrote in message

news:ajj60u$rci$1@freenet9.carleton.ca… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Sue" (tess…@optushome.com.au) writes: > > Hello, > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > > first. Sorry about that. > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely > > like Sue.. > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > Tess > Hi, Tessa Sue!:) > Wlecome to the bunch. > As you might see from reading the posts, there is no subject restricted. > The ng being unmoderated, it woudl be ludicrous to even think of defining > topics and all that. I think this is a major reason why it is so active > lately. Many various thigns and lifestyles and topics and issues and all that. > So anything goes:) > You will find quite a few from Oz here, and the neighboring areas (NZ for > instance). > Hope you enjoy your time here!:) > Chloe

Thanks Chloe Sure must be cold there brrrrrrr I have been reading the posts and i think this is a friendly group Tess

Response:

It could have been… I’m not too sure of what time I went to bed, but it wasn’t too late. Where abouts in Oz are you? — Wanda aka Willow The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances garden gnome http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ Sue wrote in message

news:3d5d1474$0$32491$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Isn’t it about 11pm there now?? > Tess > "Willow" wrote in message > news:To879.13508$Cq.540779@ozemail.com.au… > > Hi Sue (or Tessa) > > I’m in Perth. > > This is a support group for people who are experiencing loneliness in one > > form or another. We talk about a lot of things, including loneliness. > > Anything goes, even if you just want to share a good joke. > > — > > Wanda > > aka Willow > > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any > circumstances > > garden gnome > > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > > Sue wrote in message > > news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > > Hello, > > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing > myself > > > first. Sorry about that. > > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not > lonely > > > like Sue.. > > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > > Tess

Response:

Hi Sue, I also lived in Scarborough for several years, I just wish I could have afforded buying a house there! Why don’t you take yourself out if staying in makes you feel miserable? It’s difficult at first, but becomes easier with practice. Go have dinner at a nice restaurant, go see a movie, stop at a cafe for a cup of coffee, head out to listen to some live music. The more you go out the more chance you give yourself of finding someone to do these things with. That’s what I’ve found anyway. Ramble away anytime you like. — Wanda aka Willow The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances garden gnome http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ Sue wrote in message

news:3d5d13df$0$32485$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Wanda > i lived in Perth for a short while. it was near the beach. Scarborough or > something like it. > i am glad to have found this group. i am lonely and depressed. 1am on friday > and i’m sitting at my pc crying and drinking because i am lonely. how > pathetic is that? i know it’s my own fault though but don’t know how to > overcome it. > sorry to ramble. just really glad that someone replied to me. > is it cold there now? > Tess > "Willow" wrote in message > news:To879.13508$Cq.540779@ozemail.com.au… > > Hi Sue (or Tessa) > > I’m in Perth. > > This is a support group for people who are experiencing loneliness in one > > form or another. We talk about a lot of things, including loneliness. > > Anything goes, even if you just want to share a good joke. > > — > > Wanda > > aka Willow > > The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any > circumstances > > garden gnome > > http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow > > ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ > > Sue wrote in message > > news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > > > Hello, > > > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing > myself > > > first. Sorry about that. > > > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > > > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not > lonely > > > like Sue.. > > > Anyone else here from Oz? > > > Tess

Response:

Oops. Yes it is still kinda cold. I’m SO glad that I forked out on a gas heater, despite what it did to my credit card — Wanda aka Willow The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances garden gnome http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow ~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ Sue wrote in message

news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hello, > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > first. Sorry about that. > Can someone tell me what this list is about? > I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely > like Sue.. > Anyone else here from Oz? > Tess

Response:

I’m from NZ, bottom part thereof – there have been a few aussies in this NG from time to time. Harvey In article <3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38…@news.optusnet.com.au>, tess…@optushome.com.au says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hello, >Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself >first. Sorry about that. >Can someone tell me what this list is about? >I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely >like Sue.. >Anyone else here from Oz? >Tess

Response:

I was in Perth for a short time – boy, was I lonely there. Couldn’t find much to do there, with limited funds. Harvey In article , nospamwil…@2000cn.com.au says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Hi Sue (or Tessa) >I’m in Perth. >This is a support group for people who are experiencing loneliness in one >form or another. We talk about a lot of things, including loneliness. >Anything goes, even if you just want to share a good joke. >– >Wanda >aka Willow >The missing and definitely not to be taken seriously under any circumstances >garden gnome >http://www.2000cn.com.au/~willow >~~faeries are able to fly because they take themselves lightly~ >Sue wrote in message >news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… >> Hello, >> Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself >> first. Sorry about that. >> Can someone tell me what this list is about? >> I’m Sue and live in Australia but I pretend to be Tessa – she’s not lonely >> like Sue.. >> Anyone else here from Oz? >> Tess

Response:

"Sue" schreef in bericht news:3d5d10b8$0$32487$afc38c87@news.optusnet.com.au… > Firstly I should apologise. I replied to a post without introducing myself > first. Sorry about that.

Yeah, I meant to talk to you about that. What was that all about? > Can someone tell me what this list is about?

The name says it all but it

Oh how i wish

admin — Mon, 24 Jun 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I have read many entries in this NG about people keeping Journals which I believe we call diaries in the UK, I started to make notes of the things that were going on when my marriage was hitting the rocks last year or so ago. Needless to say the notes I kept were in a computerised form and managed to fill in quite a bit of hurt over the progressing months there-after. I only wish I still had them now, if only I could look back and reflect how much hurt she caused me and the children and the hurt I must have caused them too. Anyone who is hurting now I would definately recommend you keep a journal or diary so you can reflect on the past, I suppose it is part of the healing process. I have accepted my situation now but still trying to pick up the pieces left behind from the destruction caused but I know that time is the great healer and look forward to a rosy future. Take care all and thanks for all your posts. Remember your not ALONE, countless people have felt or are feeling your pain and you got to view it as another one of those experiences in life that we all don’t see coming until it hits us in the face. Best regards, Mark. Just my little bit!!!!

Response:

I kept a journal for several years as I have mentioned before. It was hidden on the top of my closet for years. One day it disappeared. I had written the last page almost seven years before. I knew immediately my ex-husband had taken it. He denied it. I looked him straight in the eye and said, "You could not have violated me more than if you had dragged me into the street and publically raped me". Then I shut the door on him. A week later he showed up at my front door, with the journal in his hand. He said he was very sorry. Then he said, "I couldn’t believe the pain I caused you. I couldn’t believe the man in those pages was me. But, I knew it was me. And, I am so very very sorry". Later, I read it again. I couldn’t believe the woman in those pages had been me. But, I knew it was me – - back then, but not now. Writing that journal helped me survive. Reading it later reminds me of those things that I must be mindful of in myself so as not to go down that road ever again.

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I have read many entries in this NG about people keeping Journals which I believe we call diaries in the UK, I started to make notes of the things that were going on when my marriage was hitting the rocks last year or so ago. Needless to say the notes I kept were in a computerised form and managed to fill in quite a bit of hurt over the progressing months there-after. I only wish I still had them now, if only I could look back and reflect how much hurt she caused me and the children and the hurt I must have caused them too. Anyone who is hurting now I would definately recommend you keep a journal or diary so you can reflect on the past, I suppose it is part of the healing process. I have accepted my situation now but still trying to pick up the pieces left behind from the destruction caused but I know that time is the great healer and look forward to a rosy future. Take care all and thanks for all your posts. Remember your not ALONE, countless people have felt or are feeling your pain and you got to view it as another one of those experiences in life that we all don’t see coming until it hits us in the face. Best regards, Mark. Just my little bit!!!!

Response:

I had a Journal I burned it. If I reread it my wife would have a real bad time. Or I might kill someone. But I got over that.

Response:

Mine were used by the parenting evaluator and were very important in substantiating my story and discrediting the false information that came from another source. I guess it all comes down to what’s in the journals. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – My Journals were all subpoenaed and used against me…. I have read many entries in this NG about people keeping Journals which I believe we call diaries in the UK, I started to make notes of the things that were going on when my marriage was hitting the rocks last year or so ago. Needless to say the notes I kept were in a computerised form and managed to fill in quite a bit of hurt over the progressing

Response:

My Journals were all subpoenaed and used against me….

Response:

I am sorry to hear about the loss of your journal. I have been keeping one since New Years Day 1992. I originally kept it in longhand, but have since transferred it to computer. My words have been so valuable to me over the years (although I seldom write, when I do, it tends to be during my more emotional times). I have as a precaution copied it to a floppy disk. Your post reminded me to update the backup, thank you. — Bruce B. "The human adventure is just beginning"

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I kept a journal for several years as I have mentioned before. It was hidden on the top of my closet for years. One day it disappeared. I had written the last page almost seven years before. I knew immediately my ex-husband had taken it. He denied it. I looked him straight in the eye and said, "You could not have violated me more than if you had dragged me into the street and publically raped me". Then I shut the door on him. A week later he showed up at my front door, with the journal in his hand. He said he was very sorry. Then he said, "I couldn’t believe the pain I caused you. I couldn’t believe the man in those pages was me. But, I knew it was me. And, I am so very very sorry". Later, I read it again. I couldn’t believe the woman in those pages had been me. But, I knew it was me – – back then, but not now. Writing that journal helped me survive. Reading it later reminds me of those things that I must be mindful of in myself so as not to go down that road ever again.

My first wife used to keep a diary. She never hid it from me. She share it with me many times in the beginning of our relationship. She loved me very much and this was reflected well in her diary. She stopped writing in it shortly after we were married. I believe that’s about the same time we lost the ability to communicate effectively. Over the next 13 years we slowly grew apart. Diaries/journals are a great way for one to communicate with themselves. They help you reflect on your feelings in the past without the cloudiness or fog that seems to roll in behind you on your journey. This may be something I need to start myself. *IF* (and this is a BIG ‘if’) I ever find someone to share the rest of my life with, I do not want to ever forget the pain and loneliness I have experienced and have overcome. My experiences over the last 4 years should be more that adequate to keep me on my toes and motivate me to be the best friend/ life partner I could be. John — Experience is a wonderful thing. It enables you to recognize a mistake when you make it again.

Response:

Desperately need help… possible Aspergers?

admin — Sun, 17 Mar 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

I know there is something wrong with me, but I’m not sure what, it seems to be a mechanical problem with my mind, and I’ve always been this way since very young. Maybe I am simply overly sensitive, or maybe there is some other problem. I’ve never been formally diagnosed but sometimes I wonder if I have Aspergers Syndrome or some other neurological disorder since I can’t seem to change my cognitive and behavior patterns. I seem to fit some of the patterns except that I am quite emotional, although most times being unable to relate or connect with other people so that I give the appearance of being aloof or distant. I am female, and I have always been shy and withdrawn, moreso than most people it seems, and what’s more, I seem to have always been trapped in my "own little world", as if my mind is turned in on itself. I guess the world seemed so overwhelming most of the time I preferred to escape into the inner world of my imagination. When I was a child I was always playing games with imaginary characters I made up, even when I was among other children, which caused them to tease and torment me all through school. My parents and teachers never did anything about this. They used to complain that I didn’t interact enough in groups situations but it seems that I wasn’t that interested or didn’t have the social skills necessary. In fact I didn’t have much interest at all in the world of humans. I had no heroes and anything having to do with the world of humans just didn’t interest me all that much, except for whatever boy I had a crush on at the time. Animals interested me more than people and in fact I used to pretend I was an animal when I was a child. I also had serial obsessions to the point that people found my company annoying because all I would talk about was that interest. My one saving grace was that I knew how to draw, and I could probably could have been described as a gifted child. I used to say that I was an artist and that would make people think that I was into making art, but it wasn’t about making art, it was just about knowing how to draw because I couldn’t interact very well, socially. Most of it was about making characters who did and said things that I couldn’t do in real life. In fact I’m not artsy at all; my house is plain and boring with no pictures on the wall; I have no fashion sense and don’t know how to decorate. People used to praise me for my talent, and for a long time I thought I was special because of it, but now it doesn’t make me feel proud or great any more. Now it makes me feel ashamed because it only reminds me of my deficiencies. I need to make my living doing this but it is so painful for me to do now. I’m not "about" anything. I’m just this big void or vacuum; no depth of character and nothing to offer anyone. The only thing I ever seemed to be "about" was primitive feelings that I felt at the time (for example, feeling rebellious at the world when I was a teenager). I keep thinking, "why am I not more daring in style? why don’t I find interest in other people or their activities? why am I not more sociable?" I would try to make myself do these things but it was always forced. My cat has more personality than I do. I always hoped that when I grew older I would become a "somebody" and have the confidence to be comfortable with myself but I realize that whatever confidence I used to have was youthful cockiness and that most of my life has been spent simply trying to conform to the expectations of society, and trying to find the shelter of love and acceptance. Yet at the same time I find the company of people overwhelming, and I am still trapped inside my head and quite lacking in social skills. When I was younger I dreamed of becoming a famous cartoonist because it was something my peer group would think was really cool. I was most creative during my younger days when I was feeling more passionate about life, but now I’m almost 40 and I feel I’ve outgrown things like that, but now it feels like I lost the only joy and refuge I had in this world, too. Not to mention the only identity I had. By now most of my peers are settled with families, but I just don’t have the personality to deal with the demands of others (or at least children, but I wouldn’t know of many men who would think I would make a good spouse, either, unless I met some nurturing type who understood my problems). I’m scared of getting older because of the way society views women over 40. It also feels as if I lost the freedom and independence I used to enjoy. I feel so lonely and cheated in this life, and all I do is sleep because it feels like my life is over with. I feel so strange and alienated in this world these days. I don’t even have that "inner world of imagination" I used to have, that I could retreat into when the world was so overwhelming. I would gladly welcome death because I feel that I have no interests and nothing of value to offer any more; nothing to look forward to. Not to mention ashamed and insufficient. I’ve been in counseling for awhile yet I can’t seem to become "untrapped" outside of my head; I guess my only hope would be antidepressants to make me feel better, to least make me feel good about myself and the work I’m capable of doing. Unfortunately the ones I’ve tried so far didn’t work on me the way they were supposed to work on "normal" people…either they made me feel worse or didn’t help enough. I feel like I’ve "thrown myself away" and am just going downhill fast.

Response:

First of all, welcome and just to touch lightly on a few points for now…(I’m getting ready to go somewhere) 1) I think your emotions do not rule out autism. I’m quite emotional but most NT would say I’m not (or that I am too much) depending. 2) I think you seem to have Asperger’s Syndrome but I couldn’t diagnose it. But your aversion to others and vice versa is a fairly good indicator. Also, art and music (as well as math and computer) are common. AS is a form of autism. You also could have High Function Autism or HFA. Artwork requires a lot of focus. 3) I would really like to see your artwork. I was drawing rather lifelike animals at a very young age. ie: horses and birds and elephants. (ie: 6-8 yrs old) Later I stopped but I always wanted to do cartoon myself. I might yet do it…..I have a creative side that needs pressure release. I’m also curious about hypersensitivity to certain textures or sounds or light that you might have.

Response:

Welcome to the world of Asperger’s Syndrome, Ann – and to ASA. Counselling often only serves to make the ASer feel more alienated than before. Anti-depressants are of scant benefit or relevance. Save your money on counselling and get an AS diagnosis (dx). Have you lurked here ? I lurked for a while – well, I read a few posts and realised almost straight away that I was Aspergic. What catharsis ! I felt I’d come home. Many Aspergics are dx’ed late in life or never – particularly if they are atypically Aspergic (and atypicality is typical of AS). You will find much of help here – and still more to delight your sense of "My God, how me is that ?". Revel in your AS and celebrate the new you. You will find the acceptance you desire right here. Welcome home. Knompy

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I know there is something wrong with me, but I’m not sure what, it seems to be a mechanical problem with my mind, and I’ve always been this way since very young. Maybe I am simply overly sensitive, or maybe there is some other problem. I’ve never been formally diagnosed but sometimes I wonder if I have Aspergers Syndrome or some other neurological disorder since I can’t seem to change my cognitive and behavior patterns. I seem to fit some of the patterns except that I am quite emotional, although most times being unable to relate or connect with other people so that I give the appearance of being aloof or distant. I am female, and I have always been shy and withdrawn, moreso than most people it seems, and what’s more, I seem to have always been trapped in my "own little world", as if my mind is turned in on itself. I guess the world seemed so overwhelming most of the time I preferred to escape into the inner world of my imagination. When I was a child I was always playing games with imaginary characters I made up, even when I was among other children, which caused them to tease and torment me all through school. My parents and teachers never did anything about this. They used to complain that I didn’t interact enough in groups situations but it seems that I wasn’t that interested or didn’t have the social skills necessary. In fact I didn’t have much interest at all in the world of humans. I had no heroes and anything having to do with the world of humans just didn’t interest me all that much, except for whatever boy I had a crush on at the time. Animals interested me more than people and in fact I used to pretend I was an animal when I was a child. I also had serial obsessions to the point that people found my company annoying because all I would talk about was that interest. My one saving grace was that I knew how to draw, and I could probably could have been described as a gifted child. I used to say that I was an artist and that would make people think that I was into making art, but it wasn’t about making art, it was just about knowing how to draw because I couldn’t interact very well, socially. Most of it was about making characters who did and said things that I couldn’t do in real life. In fact I’m not artsy at all; my house is plain and boring with no pictures on the wall; I have no fashion sense and don’t know how to decorate. People used to praise me for my talent, and for a long time I thought I was special because of it, but now it doesn’t make me feel proud or great any more. Now it makes me feel ashamed because it only reminds me of my deficiencies. I need to make my living doing this but it is so painful for me to do now. I’m not "about" anything. I’m just this big void or vacuum; no depth of character and nothing to offer anyone. The only thing I ever seemed to be "about" was primitive feelings that I felt at the time (for example, feeling rebellious at the world when I was a teenager). I keep thinking, "why am I not more daring in style? why don’t I find interest in other people or their activities? why am I not more sociable?" I would try to make myself do these things but it was always forced. My cat has more personality than I do. I always hoped that when I grew older I would become a "somebody" and have the confidence to be comfortable with myself but I realize that whatever confidence I used to have was youthful cockiness and that most of my life has been spent simply trying to conform to the expectations of society, and trying to find the shelter of love and acceptance. Yet at the same time I find the company of people overwhelming, and I am still trapped inside my head and quite lacking in social skills. When I was younger I dreamed of becoming a famous cartoonist because it was something my peer group would think was really cool. I was most creative during my younger days when I was feeling more passionate about life, but now I’m almost 40 and I feel I’ve outgrown things like that, but now it feels like I lost the only joy and refuge I had in this world, too. Not to mention the only identity I had. By now most of my peers are settled with families, but I just don’t have the personality to deal with the demands of others (or at least children, but I wouldn’t know of many men who would think I would make a good spouse, either, unless I met some nurturing type who understood my problems). I’m scared of getting older because of the way society views women over 40. It also feels as if I lost the freedom and independence I used to enjoy. I feel so lonely and cheated in this life, and all I do is sleep because it feels like my life is over with. I feel so strange and alienated in this world these days. I don’t even have that "inner world of imagination" I used to have, that I could retreat into when the world was so overwhelming. I would gladly welcome death because I feel that I have no interests and nothing of value to offer any more; nothing to look forward to. Not to mention ashamed and insufficient. I’ve been in counseling for awhile yet I can’t seem to become "untrapped" outside of my head; I guess my only hope would be antidepressants to make me feel better, to least make me feel good about myself and the work I’m capable of doing. Unfortunately the ones I’ve tried so far didn’t work on me the way they were supposed to work on "normal" people…either they made me feel worse or didn’t help enough. I feel like I’ve "thrown myself away" and am just going downhill fast.

Response:

http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/pictures/

Nice work! I actually like number 1 the best, for some reason, maybe because it’s really etherial, and where there isn’t nearly as firmly concrete an idea of what a dragon should be.

Response:

electrons and etched in their motions the following immortal words: My one saving grace was that I knew how to draw, and I could probably could have been described as a gifted child.

I have some of my art online at http://www.users.zetnet.co.uk/hawk/pictures/ I can only draw dragons.

Response:

Welcome Ann (to alt.support.autism, anyway – I don’t subscribe to the other groups you’ve posted to). I know there is something wrong with me, but I’m not sure what, it seems to be a mechanical problem with my mind, and I’ve always been this way since very young.

There’s nothing *wrong* with you – you just experience life differently. *Don’t* put yourself down. You may have problems coping with things, but that doesn’t mean you’re some sort of freak. It’s not always a pleasant experience – I’ve been there (going through it at the moment, actually) but just hang in there. In the case of the A.S.A newsgroup, you’re going to meet a lot of very helpful and supportive people, whatever any problems you feel you have. You are *not* alone in your feelings or experiences – if you have any worries or just want to have a damn good moan then feel free. The whole point of these newsgroups is to support each other. You’re welcome here. Not to say that we don’t argue about things occasionally though Ian (somewhat undiagnosed autistic, father of a child with autism) — Ian Sharrock. Permission to send unsolicited commercial e-mail to this host is explicitly *withdrawn*

Response:

(cut a couple of newsgroups) I feel so lonely and cheated in this life, and all I do is sleep because it feels like my life is over with. I feel so strange and alienated in this world these days. I don’t even have that "inner world of imagination" I used to have, that I could retreat into when the world was so overwhelming.

First of all, it’s quite possible that you do have Asperger’s, at least you’ve matched some of the criteria and the overall pattern of your life seems to fit. But a professional opinion would be better than mine. Second, you’re going through what some people have called "the dark night of the soul", something that can happen to middle-aged people when they realize the things they thought they were, or might do, may not come to anything. I’ve been going through this for awhile myself, and still struggle with doing the things I used to do and enjoy such as writing and music. It doesn’t help matters that I have a lot of real world things I have to do. I don’t have as deep an inner world as I used to, either, but I look on that as a sign of growth. It’s possible that you are adjusting to things better than you think you are, that you are being left with a "blank slate", so other things may be written that will be more important. For some reason, I’m thinking of the Celtic myth, where a man went to live in Avalon with one of the Sidhe and returned under the warning that if he touched earth, he would wither and show his age. Perhaps as the self of the imagination returns to the real world something similar happens. Contrary to popular belief people do change, but the changes aren’t always obvious when they’re going on and it can be hard to say what changes are happening. My only other advice is to do what you love and love what you do as much as possible. That’s a lot harder than it sounds. By all means, hang around asa, as you do sound as if you belong here.

Response:

– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Welcome Ann (to alt.support.autism, anyway – I don’t subscribe to the other groups you’ve posted to). I know there is something wrong with me, but I’m not sure what, it seems to be a mechanical problem with my mind, and I’ve always been this way since very young. There’s nothing *wrong* with you – you just experience life differently. *Don’t* put yourself down. You may have problems coping with things, but that doesn’t mean you’re some sort of freak. It’s not always a pleasant experience – I’ve been there (going through it at the moment, actually) but just hang in there. In the case of the A.S.A newsgroup, you’re going to meet a lot of very helpful and supportive people, whatever any problems you feel you have. You are *not* alone in your feelings or experiences – if you have any worries or just want to have a damn good moan then feel free. The whole point of these newsgroups is to support each other. You’re welcome here. Not to say that we don’t argue about things occasionally though Ian (somewhat undiagnosed autistic, father of a child with autism)

Autism=Parasites? Maybe people that worship the devil (e.g) causes the reaction defined as autism and other "mental deseases"? This means that devil worshippers and other parasites must be found and kept away from other living or dead beings. Every life that is gifted by God is a target for those who worship the devil. — Terje Henriksen Kirkenes

Response:

the following communication from alien lifeform "Terje Henriksen" Autism=Parasites? Maybe people that worship the devil (e.g) causes the reaction defined as autism and other "mental deseases"? This means that devil worshippers and other parasites must be found and kept away from other living or dead beings. Every life that is gifted by God is a target for those who worship the devil.

ROTFLMAO!! These trolls get more ridiculous all the time!! — Catriona (18, AS) Remove NOSPAM from address to e-mail me

Response:

You will get more help for your socalled mental deseases when you believe this. It’s psychiatry and psychology that are ridiculous. — Terje Henriksen Kirkenes

Response:

Autism=Parasites? Maybe people that worship the devil (e.g) causes the reaction defined as autism and other "mental deseases"? Oh dear. Do not feed the troll. Especially one that doesn’t know how to use the spell checker. This means that devil worshippers and other parasites must be found and kept away from other living or dead beings. Do di doo di doo di doo di

Not at all; only foreign. He should be a Santa worshiper Hello Father Christmas

One is only allowed to worship God himself. — Terje Henriksen Kirkenes

Response:

Autism=Parasites? Maybe people that worship the devil (e.g) causes the reaction defined as autism and other "mental deseases"?

Oh dear. Do not feed the troll. Especially one that doesn’t know how to use the spell checker. This means that devil worshippers and other parasites must be found and kept away from other living or dead beings.

Do di doo di doo di doo di

Response:

Actually, I myself find the whole concept of "God" and "religion" to be ridiculous. I am an atheist, always have been one, always will be one. Then you should find psychology and psychiatry ridiculous too. They are only religions. They doesn’t take into consideration the most important piece of life, the spirit.

Psychology and psychiatry are not religions; they have a valid scientific basis. Which is more than I can say for religion.

Response:

Every life that is gifted by God is a target for those who worship the devil. ROTFLMAO!! These trolls get more ridiculous all the time!! You will get more help for your socalled mental deseases when you believe this. It’s psychiatry and psychology that are ridiculous. Actually, I myself find the whole concept of "God" and "religion" to be ridiculous. I am an atheist, always have been one, always will be one.

Then you should find psychology and psychiatry ridiculous too. They are only religions. They doesn’t take into consideration the most important piece of life, the spirit. — Terje Henriksen Kirkenes

Response:

typed: You will get more help for your socalled mental deseases when you believe this. It’s psychiatry and psychology that are ridiculous. you’ve got to be joking.

No. — Terje Henriksen Kirkenes

Response:

typed: You will get more help for your socalled mental deseases when you believe this. It’s psychiatry and psychology that are ridiculous. you’ve got to be joking. —- —–BEGIN PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—– P+++++++c–*P6 ?R ++M+++O++MA+E PU BD++C++D++S++X WP MO PP n+CO?PO-o+G+A-OLC+OLCC+OLJ+OLP–OLR–OL CO–OLS–OLL–OLA–Ee Ev-Eon+Eot!Eob Eoa!uL+++++uB!uS!uH!uo!w—m!osA!osBE! ——END PERL GEEK CODE BLOCK—— elizabeth at psy dox dot com

Response:

Actually, I myself find the whole concept of "God" and "religion" to be ridiculous. I am an atheist, always have been one, always will be one.

Response:

Anyways, so much rambling … what can I say. Your post struck a chord, I suppose. Well, good luck with what happens, and please let us know.

Yeah, that post struck a chord with me as well. I’m pretty sure I don’t have Aspergers in any clinical sense, but I can relate to a lot of it on some level. (E.g. when I was very young, I had this pretty elaborate fantasy world made up where I was the hero, and where other people were pretty much excluded.) Anyway, Steve, I really enjoy reading your posts, and it sounds like you’re doing great! There is nothing I admire more than people who are willing to try and make a rational and realistic attempt to follow up on some of their idealistic passions, instead of being constrained by other people’s ideas of what they should be.

Response:

Hi Ann, Your post is very articulate and well-expressed, I can relate with some of your experiences, especially in early elementary school. In terms of labels, though, such as Aspergers, I’d be careful in accepting them too soon. My advice is to go to your doctor or a health professional, someone you can *trust*, and ask for their opinion. I had similar fears in the past that I may have had this condition, however they turned out not to be true. My parents were, especially in earlier school, very worried about me, given some of my behavior patterns were like yours. Especially can relate to creating a reality in my imagination in order to deal with a world that was too overwheleming. But then again, Elaine Aron talks about this issue in depth in her book, "The Highly Sensitive Person", and pretty much argues that this is a normal tendency, but only a problem if it is out of control. Anyways, my one ’saving grace’, I suppose, was that I had a social side and was able to make friends easily, even during my difficult times in school. I was able to overcome a lot of the shyness and find creative solutions to become more social and also express my weirdness in more appropriate (and humorous!!!) ways. Ironcially, however, I still can’t figure this one out. I returned back home in Canada after doing a short 6 week teaching stint in Tianjin, China … actually this was a transition time between teaching jobs where I would later return (not knowingly at the time) to China, this time in Shanghai where I currently am. When I returned home, I experienced some nasty, and I mean brutal, reverse culture shock, which was much more intense than any cultural adaption on the way over. During this shocker period, a lot of personal problems intensified and were a lot worse than I had experienced before. For example, I recall spending hours just lying on the couch alone, feeling depressed and dreading the inevitable job hunt that lay ahead. I also recall intense feelings of loneliness and feeling like an outsider. I recall lots of low self-esteem and feeling sad that I had gone from being practically treated like a celebrity to a nobody in the span of two weeks! One day I just got on the bike and rode to nowhere in particular, recalling spending a whole day just lying on the beach! But I was pretty bored on the bike, as riding on the streets of my hometown was a lonely joke compared to the challenges of an urban city in China. My parents saw these struggles and changes and my mom actually, brought out some Aspergers stuff and mentioned that she thought I might have this syndrome. Of course, they didn’t immediately consider the changes I had done in the past few years to become more social and build up a professional skill base … making significant tackles in both the relationship and career paths. Yet again, they were not interested in my summer trip very much and how it changed me so much, save for a couple of pictures over supper, and the inevitable, "Now what? You’ve graduated, you’ve taught, now it’s time to buckle down for a career" speeach. Anyways. Actually turns out the Asperger stuff was off the mark, as I later explained to my parents. The social difficulties I had in school and later challenges had more to do with over-sensitivity to stimulation and also holding a farily unique, shall we say, value system and world view. Turns out the recent decision I made killed a ton of birds with one stone, and I’m very happy it has progressed as it has. I’m now teaching English in Shanghai, and making money for doing something that I was volunteering last summer. The good thing about this, is that at the language school I’m at I have less ‘celebrity status’ than when I was teaching a great bunch of idealistic university students in Tianjin … this is immensely great because I don’t let this get to my head. When students treated me like a celebrity (I’m not kidding, they asked for autographs and everything!!!) I took it too seriously, then felt a huge whallop upon returning to life in Canada. But students value the teaching enough to at least treat me to singing every now and then. Also, they are shelling out big bucks for learning English, so of course their expecations are more than students last summer who practically got a free ride. This is great, because it keeps me on my toes, and I have to work my ass off to prepare effective lessons and continue improving my teaching skills. Also, the money is enough to live comfortable on and save. Parents see this as a positive step. It is a career starter, as the company I work for purposely employs teachers who are interested in starting a teaching career. So I can use the experience to then pursue further directions, such as getting a TEFL certificate, teaching at an international school, teaching in other countries, such as South Korea (like, duh, where the money is!) or going back to school to get my Masters in Education (probably TESOL). The professional feedback and evaluations from students and supervisors has been impressive, much more than I would have expected, and I am beginning to develop more confidence in myself as a teacher, as earlier I had huge doubts that I wouldn’t be able to pull this off. Especially, Asperger comments from my parents didn’t help the self-esteem. Finally, although this is a career-starter, it’s not as competitive or rigorous as doing something related to my field (I’m a meterology grad, for crying out loud!) which is what I was dreading ever since early 2000. So I enjoy lots of free time and relaxation, which tackles that. It’s almost the perfect solution to the graduation crisis, that which was an immense problem last year. Christ, now my still-in-school younger brother and sister want to do the same thing I’m doing! However I am in no means out of the woods yet. The girlfriend issue, or lack of one, is beginning to creep in again, and now that I’ve more or less tackled the job issue, I am feeling lonely for lack of an intimate relationship. I have done some dating here, but this cross-cultural thing is a lot tougher than I had imagined. So I’m a little pressed for ideas. I witnessed my friend from the U.S. get involved with a girl from Wuhan (Central China), and they fell in love very quickly. I took an airplane to meet them just 3 weeks ago, and she is very nice, but I get the sinking feeling she fell in love with his U.S. passport more than himself. So naturally, I don’t want a repeat of that with myself, maybe I’m being overly wary. Anyways, so much rambling … what can I say. Your post struck a chord, I suppose. Well, good luck with what happens, and please let us know. Steve

Response:

Nobody has ever been interested in me in any decent way [trigger: suicide]

admin — Mon, 04 Feb 2002 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

stfu "wye crossing" go back to the swamp you came from you insignificant worm. I dread to know what gene pool spat you out. Did posting that reply get you off? Was it fun? Are you mentally well? Give my condolences to your parents.

Response:

wye crossing, I apologize, I should have actually put Cuddley Darlings name there! YOU HEARD ME YOU BASTARD! Your soppy little story is so false like you, I read this post of yours and thought awww shame and felt angry at wye for her/his comments but then I read other posts of yours before this one and I can honestly NOT BLAME THOSE GIRLS FOR WANTING NOTHING TO DO WITH YOU! If I was female I’d become lesbian just to spite you. Have a nice day and and if you kill yourself, try not get blood on the carpet, it really makes terrible stains.

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Cuddley Darling wrote: > In my whole nobody was ever interested in me enough to find > out what kinds of things I’m interested in. The closest > anyone ever came was LitalR who tried to understand the real > me "inside" but never was interested in doing anything with > me except exchange e-mail, and EstelleB who was willing to > let me teach her my favorite board game when we first met > but she wasn’t willing to ever play it again. Neither Janet > nor HeatherT nor BronwynK nor CarrieS nor CatherineS nor > AnnieB nor Suzanne nor Debi nor Chloe even wanted to learn > what sorts of things I am interested in, except 2.5 months > after Annie and I broke up she finally was willing to let me > play some of my latest music while we made love, but she > liked only one tune on the whole tape, and KristinM let me > play her some of my music once but the only music she liked > was stuff she already knew and liked before meeting me so > that doesn’t count as learning my interests. After Chloe > told me how great she is at language skills, and bragged > about some stuff she had done at work, I got an idea for a > new game to play with her, which would involve her language > skills so it’d be easy for her, but after I put a lot of > work into the game two weeks ago, she hasn’t played it at > all any more, claiming it’s so terribly difficult to > concentrate she’ll get a headache and die, so small chance > she’ll ever let me share anything I like that she ians’t > already good at. But at least she was willing to try that > new game I invented, for maybe three days, so that’s better > than Annie who *never* would let me show her anything about > computer programming or my favorite board game or my > favorite TV programs or movies or what food I eat (and > managed to evade me ever treating her to Chinese lunch). > All Janet wanted to do was help me to overcome one tiny bit > of my shyness. All Heather wanted to do was tease me about > how she likes to sunbathe topless and how where she came > from she goes around nude all the time, but never meet me in > perosn so I can’t even see her cute freckly face. All > Bronwyn wanted to do was have me help her overcome her > shyness then toy with me with sexual promises she never > intended to keep. All Carrie wanted to do was insist she was > ugly and insist I would dump her like everyone else did and > nag about how the dishes in the sink would jump out and fly > around a corner and hit her when she was in bed with me. > Catherine shared me her day to day life, but never cared to > know about mine. All agoraphobic Suzanne wanted to do was > make excuses why she couldn’t go to the library where we > could meet. All Debi (shybee) wanted to do is promise we’d > meet in November near her parents’ home in Sacramento, then > change it to December, then say she was going to kill > herself, then stop talking to me for three weeks, making me > think she was dead, then say she tried to kill herself but > did it wrong and failed but will do it right now, then never > talk to me again so I don’t know if she really did kill > herself or she was actually spy366 = Mark-RGB impersonating > a woman again. > I still love Lital, even after how she led me on just to > abuse me in a horrible way, because she’s the only person > who ever half understood me. I could still love Heather, > despite how she abused me, if she would agree to meet me and > hang out with me. Heather’s the only woman who ever craved > me enough to make a shrine for me on her computer, but I > think she lied about her name because I found photos of her > under a different name on the net. Apparently she’s really > some kind of prostitute or call-girl or nude dancer or > somesuch, like Catra, who likes to abuse men by teasing them > sexually. But her right breast is so beautiful I’d forgive > her for everything so-far if she’d let me see her left > breast and kiss oth of them. Cate made a special WebSite for > me when she was in love with me, so it couldn’t have been > totally a like, or could it? Maybe the WebSIte for me was > just part of the tease. > Nobody has ever wanted to find out about my interests, and > nobody ever will, so now that I’ve realized it, after seeing > that ShipMates episode with Cheyenne, the December Penthouse > playmate, who wasn’t interested in her date’s interests, > which I finally realized tonight after seeing that episode > for the third time, and realized that in that one crucial > respect everyone I’ve ever met in my whole life has been > like her, I don’t want to go on living any more. > I suffer loneliness because nobody has ever been interested > in me. Nobody has ever offered me emotional support, and > nobody ever will, so I don’t know why I’m posting here. I > hate the whold world, everyone in it, because nobody has > ever been willing to be with me or show an interest in me or > let me share my life with them. Everyone considers me > worthless, so I must be worthless, so it will be no loss > when I end my life tomorrow. > I do really good work computer-programming, but nobody values > it enough to pay me even Federal minimum wage, nor even to > accept my work for free in a volunteer job, so I am worthless. > I am stupid to think I am of any value to anyone. So I must die now.

Face it .. these women did not care about the same things you did .. you can’t force them … You are just a dull person .. So you will die now? Bu Bye.

Response:

In my whole nobody was ever interested in me enough to find out what kinds of things I’m interested in. The closest anyone ever came was LitalR who tried to understand the real me "inside" but never was interested in doing anything with me except exchange e-mail, and EstelleB who was willing to let me teach her my favorite board game when we first met but she wasn’t willing to ever play it again. Neither Janet nor HeatherT nor BronwynK nor CarrieS nor CatherineS nor AnnieB nor Suzanne nor Debi nor Chloe even wanted to learn what sorts of things I am interested in, except 2.5 months after Annie and I broke up she finally was willing to let me play some of my latest music while we made love, but she liked only one tune on the whole tape, and KristinM let me play her some of my music once but the only music she liked was stuff she already knew and liked before meeting me so that doesn’t count as learning my interests. After Chloe told me how great she is at language skills, and bragged about some stuff she had done at work, I got an idea for a new game to play with her, which would involve her language skills so it’d be easy for her, but after I put a lot of work into the game two weeks ago, she hasn’t played it at all any more, claiming it’s so terribly difficult to concentrate she’ll get a headache and die, so small chance she’ll ever let me share anything I like that she ians’t already good at. But at least she was willing to try that new game I invented, for maybe three days, so that’s better than Annie who *never* would let me show her anything about computer programming or my favorite board game or my favorite TV programs or movies or what food I eat (and managed to evade me ever treating her to Chinese lunch). All Janet wanted to do was help me to overcome one tiny bit of my shyness. All Heather wanted to do was tease me about how she likes to sunbathe topless and how where she came from she goes around nude all the time, but never meet me in perosn so I can’t even see her cute freckly face. All Bronwyn wanted to do was have me help her overcome her shyness then toy with me with sexual promises she never intended to keep. All Carrie wanted to do was insist she was ugly and insist I would dump her like everyone else did and nag about how the dishes in the sink would jump out and fly around a corner and hit her when she was in bed with me. Catherine shared me her day to day life, but never cared to know about mine. All agoraphobic Suzanne wanted to do was make excuses why she couldn’t go to the library where we could meet. All Debi (shybee) wanted to do is promise we’d meet in November near her parents’ home in Sacramento, then change it to December, then say she was going to kill herself, then stop talking to me for three weeks, making me think she was dead, then say she tried to kill herself but did it wrong and failed but will do it right now, then never talk to me again so I don’t know if she really did kill herself or she was actually spy366 = Mark-RGB impersonating a woman again. I still love Lital, even after how she led me on just to abuse me in a horrible way, because she’s the only person who ever half understood me. I could still love Heather, despite how she abused me, if she would agree to meet me and hang out with me. Heather’s the only woman who ever craved me enough to make a shrine for me on her computer, but I think she lied about her name because I found photos of her under a different name on the net. Apparently she’s really some kind of prostitute or call-girl or nude dancer or somesuch, like Catra, who likes to abuse men by teasing them sexually. But her right breast is so beautiful I’d forgive her for everything so-far if she’d let me see her left breast and kiss oth of them. Cate made a special WebSite for me when she was in love with me, so it couldn’t have been totally a like, or could it? Maybe the WebSIte for me was just part of the tease. Nobody has ever wanted to find out about my interests, and nobody ever will, so now that I’ve realized it, after seeing that ShipMates episode with Cheyenne, the December Penthouse playmate, who wasn’t interested in her date’s interests, which I finally realized tonight after seeing that episode for the third time, and realized that in that one crucial respect everyone I’ve ever met in my whole life has been like her, I don’t want to go on living any more. I suffer loneliness because nobody has ever been interested in me. Nobody has ever offered me emotional support, and nobody ever will, so I don’t know why I’m posting here. I hate the whold world, everyone in it, because nobody has ever been willing to be with me or show an interest in me or let me share my life with them. Everyone considers me worthless, so I must be worthless, so it will be no loss when I end my life tomorrow. I do really good work computer-programming, but nobody values it enough to pay me even Federal minimum wage, nor even to accept my work for free in a volunteer job, so I am worthless. I am stupid to think I am of any value to anyone. So I must die now.

Response:

New York, New York

admin — Wed, 07 Nov 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

Hostelling. That is some kinda experience right there. It’s especially hard for shy people because you have to share a room with several people you don’t know. You also have no choice but to socialize out in the community areas because it’s insane to stay in your tiny, uncomfortable room for any length of time other than to sleep. Another thing is that you have to be really careful because you are all waking and sleeping at different times of the night or day. Being self-conscious about bothering other people or having them bother you has to be thrown out the window. You all have to share bathrooms, personal space, everything. You also run into language barriers. Man, it’s a shy person’s nightmare! But I did it, and many times *I* was the person friendly enough to start conversations and short friendships with people around me. I came to New York with this mindset that I would talk and meet people. I did that to an extent. I failed to overcome in many aspects. I did have a hard time walking into places or exploring fully lots of areas because I was too shy. There were countless numbers of times my shyness interrupted or ruined things with people, too. Other times I passed with flying colors, striking up conversations, trying to be nice and talking and such. Also, traveling in itself was hard. I had to ask questions about how and where to get places and it wasn’t all happy, either. I cannot count how many times people in customer service positions were rude to me or treated me like an idiot. I’ve never been on a train before, I never rode a subway, and I was so nervous about all of this and having to talk to people about actually doing it. I also tried to make the situation hard on myself by only bringing the bare essentials needed for survival, one backpack is all I had for the entire week. But back to shyness, the trip really helped me, I think. As time went on, it was getting very easy to relax around people and just start talking. Nowadays I am a little braver than I was before. I have to do this again and try to work on my confidence more. There were people I met who were cool that I was happy I spoke to. But there was also an incident where I met a girl and it dawned on me that she might want to hang out, but due to my indecisiveness and lack of confidence she politely went on her own way. I had a last minute rendevous with a long-distance friend. I was introduced to a bunch of new people and they were the coolest. I also had many "firsts" happen to me in terms of romantic type things – *real* cuddling and kissing (not the bribed, scheming way like I usually do at cons). Cuddling was the best, especially out in public. I see couples together all the time and it always pisses me off. I always wanted to have that. Well, this time around it was ME – the train, the bus, the Park, anyplace we could get close we’d hold each other. It was such a wonderful feeling to be held, respected, admired, loved… I never felt anything so wonderful and I won’t forget it. A long time ago, I got an idea in my head that I would have something like this happen before I got into my upper 20s. Well, all this happened on the very last day of my 25th year. As we parted, we knew we wouldn’t see each other for a LONG time, and I had my first really romantic-type kiss a few hours before midnight (just barely made the deadline!). Do you guys remember those Big Red chewing gum commercials where the couples are kissing someplace and everyone around is inconvenienced somehow because the couple is in the way or whatever – that was us (we were pretty much planted sorta in front of one of the train doors) and we were doing the Big Red thing. Yeah.. uh, it was something I’ve had many non-shy people tell me that this hostelling thing was "brave" or "ballsy" and that they would never have done it. These people didn’t even know I was doing this for my shyness. Right now I can’t even understand how it’s "gutsy", it seemed sorta fine to me. Maybe it’s the whole backpacking aspect or the loneliness involved with this kind of travelling. Heck, I’d recommend hostelling anyday. I *am* doing it again. The age thing isn’t important either. You would think hostelling was for 17-24 year olds, but it was also a *bunch* of people my age and up in their 30s. So everyone go push yourselves. Just do it. All the good and bad things that happened to me were so awesome. CB

Response:

buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote in news:83a9fc9f.0111071028.15bbc1a7 @posting.google.com: Whoah! You realize, that you’re most of the way to becomming an a.s.s. legend, dude:) I don’t think 99% of people have any idea what real bravery and passion is, and they are only willing to look for a superficial kind. You sound like one of the bravest people I’ve ever heard of!

Response:

You are an inspiration to us all. -k

Response:

In article <83a9fc9f.0111071028.15bbc…@posting.google.com>, buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote: > As we parted, >we knew we wouldn’t see each other for a LONG time, and I had my first >really romantic-type kiss a few hours before midnight (just barely >made the deadline!). Do you guys remember those Big Red chewing gum >commercials where the couples are kissing someplace and everyone >around is inconvenienced somehow because the couple is in the way or >whatever – that was us (we were pretty much planted sorta in front of >one of the train doors) and we were doing the Big Red thing. Yeah.. >uh, it was something

Heh. Those commercials must be a part of the collective consciousness of guys of a certain age. I had a similar moment with a boyfriend in a car–we kissed so long at a stoplight that the car behind us honked when the light turned green. He was mortified and said, "Oh, my god, I hate it when other people do that, but I just had a Big Red commercial moment!" >I’ve had many non-shy people tell me that this hostelling thing was >"brave" or "ballsy" and that they would never have done it. These >people didn’t even know I was doing this for my shyness. Right now I >can’t even understand how it’s "gutsy", it seemed sorta fine to me. >Maybe it’s the whole backpacking aspect or the loneliness involved >with this kind of travelling. Heck, I’d recommend hostelling anyday. >I *am* doing it again. The age thing isn’t important either. You >would think hostelling was for 17-24 year olds, but it was also a >*bunch* of people my age and up in their 30s.

Well, it sounds brave to me. I don’t know that I could do it. You’ve inspired me to something that scares me (I haven’t decided what yet). I’ll report on the group once I’ve decided and carried through with it. -yakima

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WOW! That’s wonderful. It always cheers me up to read a post like that. It’s refreshing. Keep up the good work. I’m a bit jealous actually You’ve certainly invoked a want in me to get out and do things. Thanks. Angel

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Man, I envy you! :) This is fantastic. Keep up the good work. Pardon my ignorance, but what is a hostelling? — oxidation տլ

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bjpar…@sympatico.ca (William Parker) wrote in message … > buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote in news:83a9fc9f.0111071028.15bbc1a7 > @posting.google.com: > Whoah! You realize, that you’re most of the way to becomming an a.s.s. > legend, dude:) I don’t think 99% of people have any idea what real bravery > and passion is, and they are only willing to look for a superficial kind. > You sound like one of the bravest people I’ve ever heard of!

What?? Me? Nah, I just went on vacation. Sure it was really difficult, but I had to try. I mean, what else can I do? I think all the things I’ve done, all I’m doing is throwing my brain into shock to force it to think in better ways than before. If I don’t have a way to force myself, I think I would have stayed the same. It’s been about 6 months since I started forcing myself into these rather odd situations, and there has been progress. Seriously, how else am I supposed to help myself? cb

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Congratulations Buster. I hope you got laid too and were just too much of a gentleman to tell us.

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buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote in message … > I mean, what else can I do? I think all > the things I’ve done, all I’m doing is throwing my brain into shock to > force it to think in better ways than before. If I don’t have a way > to force myself, I think I would have stayed the same. > It’s been about 6 months since I started forcing myself into these > rather odd situations, and there has been progress. Seriously, how > else am I supposed to help myself?

This is so true. Most times, you just have to force yourself into things. It’s never easy, but it feels so great when you accomplish them. Even trying and failing is better than doing nothing. Doing nothing just depresses the hell out of you.

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"oxidation" wrote in message … > Pardon my ignorance, but what is a hostelling?

It’s not ignorant, many people don’t know what hostels are. I didn’t know until a few months ago and only one other person at my work knew what they were. Basically they are cheap places to stay, usually for single travelers but you don’t have to be alone. They are cheap because they will only give you a bed in a dorm room and that’s it. You have to provide whatever else amenities you need. www.hostels.com gives way more info on them. Some of them sound really scary. The tradeoff for giving up luxury and privacy was I got a room right on Times Square for $30 a night. You have to be willing to meet new people because basically you are forced to. No place to hide, you are never alone! I was forced to take the top bunk and I had no idea who I was bothering below me as I stumbled into the dark room. Although I do know that all he had on was his underwear. I ended up in a room with 2 Argentineans and an Australian. Then the aussie left and a guy from Minneapolis came in the next night, who I had nice talks with. I sat in the community area alot and just sparked conversations with whoever sat near me. People were there for so many different reasons, the NYC marathon, looking for work, vacation, etc.. I also witnessed other people meeting new friends, too. Great fun. The other hostel I stayed at was a complete nightmare. I don’t want to go into it, but don’t ever get a room at the white house hotel on the Bowery near Houston St. Clean bathrooms, though. Not to bring people’s hopes up, but a friend of mine’s boyfriend lost his virginity to a girl he met at a hostel in europe somewhere last year.. a very shy guy in his mid-20’s. I don’t know about that, and I didn’t know this until after I got back, so I wasn’t jonesing for some sex on this trip. cb

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Good post. Those non-shy folk were right. Shy or not, the kinds of things you did were above and beyond what’s expected socially. Nice work. Most people would never think of doing things like this on their own and facing the challenges and fears with it. Damn, that is the proper way to live, to seize the day indeed. I like how you mentioned how people were rude to you. Yeah, that is one of the downsides of trying new things. You realize that people can be rude and can be jerks and if you’re shy and don’t associate with people all the time, you don’t really think much about it. But when it strikes, it hurts. The great thing is that if you keep your chin up and keep pushing at it, their rudeness doesn’t hurt as much the next time. Eventually you start to regard it as just rude behaviour and nothing personal. "CVB" wrote in message

news:83a9fc9f.0111071028.15bbc1a7@posting.google.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hostelling. That is some kinda experience right there. It’s > especially hard for shy people because you have to share a room with > several people you don’t know. You also have no choice but to > socialize out in the community areas because it’s insane to stay in > your tiny, uncomfortable room for any length of time other than to > sleep. Another thing is that you have to be really careful because > you are all waking and sleeping at different times of the night or > day. Being self-conscious about bothering other people or having them > bother you has to be thrown out the window. You all have to share > bathrooms, personal space, everything. You also run into language > barriers. Man, it’s a shy person’s nightmare! But I did it, and many > times *I* was the person friendly enough to start conversations and > short friendships with people around me.

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"Restless Scorpio" wrote in message

news:c048a704.0111071925.1df19019@posting.google.com… > buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote in message

… > > I mean, what else can I do? I think all > > the things I’ve done, all I’m doing is throwing my brain into shock to > > force it to think in better ways than before. If I don’t have a way > > to force myself, I think I would have stayed the same. > > It’s been about 6 months since I started forcing myself into these > > rather odd situations, and there has been progress. Seriously, how > > else am I supposed to help myself? > This is so true. Most times, you just have to force yourself into > things. It’s never easy, but it feels so great when you accomplish > them. Even trying and failing is better than doing nothing. Doing > nothing just depresses the hell out of you.

Amen. The best thing about forcing yourself into new situations is that if you do it enough times, you get used to it. It becomes habitual, acting that way. One day you stop and realize, "Hey, what I’m doing now used to be scary but now I don’t give it a second thought!" I think that is the ultimate measure of success for overcoming fears. When you don’t even think about how it’s scary to do that thing, you know you’ve licked it.

Response:

"CVB" wrote in message

news:83a9fc9f.0111071935.2fdb1ba9@posting.google.com… > "oxidation" wrote in message

… > The other hostel I stayed at was a complete nightmare. I don’t want > to go into it, but don’t ever get a room at the white house hotel on > the Bowery near Houston St. Clean bathrooms, though.

Last year, when I moved to Toronto, I had to stay at a hostel for a few days since I was looking for an apartment. The first one I chose was awful. It was this old building that looked like it was gonna fall apart. Ever see Fight Club? The building was sorta like the one there, but not as big. There were all these strange people there. They sort of looked like bums just passing through town or something. I slept in the top bunk of this one bed and there were holes in the bunk that I had to avoid or else I’d fall through. Anyway, it was so nasty, that I checked out a couple of days later. It was just awful. Afterwards, I felt really bad, though. Although the place was nasty, the host was a really friendly guy and you could tell he was just trying to provide a cheap place for people to stay in while they passed through town. The next hostel I stayed at since I couldn’t find an apartment right away, was wayyy better. There were lots of young people there and it was very clean. One night, one of the guys in my room, a Brazilian, asked me to join him downstairs for a drink. That was one of the best nights ever. The whole week was really stressful for me since I couldn’t find a home and at the same time I had to start work. (I was living out of this hostel that was about an hour away by bus and train from work.) It felt good just to sit there and relax for a while with a friendly chap from some other country. I want to add that I learned to speak with confidence on the phone during that week. Like I said, I was looking for an apartment for about a week. At first, I was so wimpy about it. I’d call up a place and ask really quietly if the apartment was available still and if I could come see it. I got so many rejections that soon I was getting very discouraged. At first, I just wanted to die and give up ’cause I thought I was gonna be homeless. Then I started to fight that initial reaction. I started calling up places and didn’t act so wimpy anymore. I was so used to the rejection that I built up my spine a bit. I’d look in the paper for apartments, then just pick up the phone and called them up, with no hesitation. Before, I’d waffle a bit and think, "Hmm. Well, it’s not really in the location where I want." But I realized that wasn’t getting me a home, so I learned to be assertive.

Response:

buster_lo…@my-deja.com (CVB) wrote in news:83a9fc9f.0111071546.4cf06247@posting.google.com: > What?? Me? Nah, I just went on vacation. Sure it was really > difficult, but I had to try. I mean, what else can I do?

Oh, lots… One popular option is to sit around and complain, or rationalize reasons why you can’t ever change for the better. > I think all > the things I’ve done, all I’m doing is throwing my brain into shock to > force it to think in better ways than before. If I don’t have a way > to force myself, I think I would have stayed the same. > It’s been about 6 months since I started forcing myself into these > rather odd situations, and there has been progress. Seriously, how > else am I supposed to help myself?

Give your self some credit, for Heaven’s sake:) It’s one thing to talk about making progress, and you’re actually doing it at a very impressive pace.

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"themoodykid" wrote in message news > The next hostel I stayed at since I couldn’t find an apartment right > away, was wayyy better. There were lots of young people there > and it was very clean. One night, one of the guys in my room, a > Brazilian, asked me to join him downstairs for a drink. That was > one of the best nights ever. The whole week was really > stressful for me since I couldn’t find a home and at the same time I > had to start work. (I was living out of this hostel that was about an > hour away by bus and train from work.) It felt good just to sit there > and relax for a while with a friendly chap from some other country.

See, *that’s* cool. That’s what I was *trying* to do that never quite happened. I did in fact meet *tons* of people but I never got a chance to actually really hang out with any of them, like go out for drinks or whatever. Of course, the person I already knew from emails and such introduced me to all *her* friends, but I didn’t meet many *on my own* as much as I wanted. And I already mentioned that I flopped the one opportunity I had to hang out with someone I met. The good part is that I was so confident in meeting people that I just talked to anyone I saw. I couldn’t believe how natural and easy it was just to say "hi" to anyone at the place and start a conversation. You can always start off with ‘where are you from?’ and move onto ‘what brings you here?’. Fun fun fun. I’ll do it again and next time I will do it better. Chris

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CVB wrote: > I’ve had many non-shy people tell me that this hostelling thing was > "brave" or "ballsy" and that they would never have done it. These > people didn’t even know I was doing this for my shyness. Right now I > can’t even understand how it’s "gutsy", it seemed sorta fine to me. > Maybe it’s the whole backpacking aspect or the loneliness involved > with this kind of travelling. Heck, I’d recommend hostelling anyday. > I *am* doing it again. The age thing isn’t important either. You > would think hostelling was for 17-24 year olds, but it was also a > *bunch* of people my age and up in their 30s.

Heh, I just re-joined the youth hostels association, and I’m 34. They don’t have age restrictions anymore. Staying in hostels is a good way to tackle shyness. I stayed in one on a mountainside on the Welsh coast a couple of weeks ago. It was great. > So everyone go push yourselves. Just do it. All the good and bad > things that happened to me were so awesome.

It sounds like an adventure – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> CB

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CVB wrote: > barriers. Man, it’s a shy person’s nightmare! But I did it, and many > times *I* was the person friendly enough to start conversations and > short friendships with people around me.

that’s fantastic I’m glad you had such a great time, that does sound like a lot of fun. Have another star, and one for the other convention post ** Beckie — Don’t worry. You won’t say anything stupid. It’ll be fine. -Neil Gaiman

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themoodykid wrote: > I want to add that I learned to speak with confidence on the phone > during that week. Like I said, I was looking for an apartment for > about a week. At first, I was so wimpy about it. I’d call up a place > and ask really quietly if the apartment was available still and if I could > come see it. I got so many rejections that soon I was getting very > discouraged. At first, I just wanted to die and give up ’cause I > thought I was gonna be homeless. Then I started to fight that > initial reaction. I started calling up places and didn’t act so wimpy > anymore. I was so used to the rejection that I built up my spine > a bit. I’d look in the paper for apartments, then just pick up the > phone and called them up, with no hesitation. Before, I’d waffle > a bit and think, "Hmm. Well, it’s not really in the location where > I want." But I realized that wasn’t getting me a home, so I learned > to be assertive.

cool have a star * Beckie — Don’t worry. You won’t say anything stupid. It’ll be fine. -Neil Gaiman

Response:

5 ways to let shyness take control of your life

admin — Wed, 17 Oct 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

1 Set limited goals that involve minimal contact with other people 2 Give up! – do nothing to learn coping skills 3 Refuse to learn from people who have overcome debilitating shyness 4 Make sure you don

Message to Lisa

admin — Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:00:00 +0000

Question:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Limbo wrote in message <3b510…@iridium.webone.com.au>… > wrote in message >news:tl0ote4t746md5@corp.supernews.com… >> Limbo wrote in message <3b4f2…@iridium.webone.com.au>… >> >L, Lisa >> >Cold treatment of our empress >> >L, Lisa >> >The transient Universe >> >L, Lisa >> >Instant communication and communion >> >Lamerica >> >emeralds in glass >> >Lamerica >> >searchlights at the twilight >> >Lamerica >> >stoned streets in the pale dawn >> >Lamerica >> >robbed in exile >> >Lamerica >> >swift beat of a proud heart >> >Lamerica >> >eyes like twenty >> >Lamerica >> >swift dream >> >Lamerica >> >frozen heart >> >Lamerica >> >soldiers doom >> >Lamerica >> >clouds and struggles >> >Lamerica >> >Nighthawk >> >doomed from the start >> >Lamerica >> >"That’s how I met her, >> >Lamerica >> >lonely and frozen >> >Lamerica >> >and sullen yes >> >Lamerica >> >right from the start" >> >Then stop >> >Go >> >The wilderness between >> >Go round the march >> If I am your empress then yes, I sure as hell am being treated >> coldly. That’s for damn sure. If I am not your empress, then I sure >> as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. If I am only Lisa Agnes >> Gardner, then I sure as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. >> I am being treated with a total lack of understanding, and I am >> being treated with cold and with abuse. Maybe this is the reason >> for some of the loneliness? Maybe this is the reason for some of >> the sullen-ness? And that was only really towards my mother, who >> was extremely abusive towards me both physically, mentally, >> and emotionally. You sound like you might be talking from my >> mother’s perspective. >> The slapping hand, the knives, the buried stories of deep hurting >> wives. My life like a topsy-turvy pile of delicately balanced glasses >> that got smashed and now sometimes seems broken beyond repair. >> Me living most of my life in fright and disorientation and a constant >> state of wariness, trying to avoid the swinging hand and all that other >> stuff. I have only managed to get free of some of this fear in >> the last six years or so of my life. To do this has taken a tremendous, >> huge effort on my part. >> I had a dream where I was laying down on a floor. A man was >> helping me to pile wine glasses one on top of the other to make >> a kind of ‘wine-glass’ sculpture. The thing had gotten about >> two feet tall or so. Then I was overcome with despair in the >> dream and feelings of needing to give up because I felt like >> everything was just broken beyond repair. I said to the man, >> ‘This is my life’ and then I took my right hand and smashed the >> whole pile of glasses into fragments. >> That’s how I sometimes feel: that things in me must be broken >> beyond repair and that only god can heal me. >> But I have something very beautiful and living in me. I am going to >> try to nurture that thing. >> So I am not sure what you are telling me here: in your poem am >> I once again the big, bad thing that argues well and makes sense >> (and that is a learned skill, I had to learn that through the study of >mathematics) >> and so is cold? Or am I the one who is misunderstood and treated >> coldly? Because I definitely see myself as the latter. So please tell >> me straight out: what is it that you are trying to say to me, Limbo? >> Lisa >Lisa……….I like you a lot and that includes respect and wish to become >reacquainted after that nasty episode a few weeks back………I to am >tertiary educated in science and deeply regret any of the confusion and >hostility that occurred some time ago……….believe me it was not a >personal attack but a difference of opinion and a lack of sensibility on >both our parts…………please forgive me………..I only wish we can >bury that past and resurrect a bright and fulfilling future that is mutually >beneficial to the both of us and others……….supportive and loving. >The above poem I sent to you was conciliatory in nature ……please to not >read anything beyond that in to it. >Here’s hoping for a future……….best wishes >Limbo >ps- I am no way representative of your mother………my soul is borne of >love and compassion >Do you understand now Lisa ???

Not really, no. but I do understand that you do not wish me any ill will, and that feels good to me. I feel that I have so much ill will directed towards me night and day in an unending stream, both from external sources and internal sources that should not be that close to me given what they are and how they feel about me- and I am not too very sure, still, why this is. I think I have something valuable within. Maybe someone seeks to kill it or exploit it or something, or to obliterate my increasing strength and self-confidence. I dunno. Thank you for explaining though, I appreciate it. The poem was beautiful. I understand that you now do not wish me any ill will. Thank you for that. Lisa

Response:

wrote in message

news:tl0ote4t746md5@corp.supernews.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Limbo wrote in message <3b4f2…@iridium.webone.com.au>… > >L, Lisa > >Cold treatment of our empress > >L, Lisa > >The transient Universe > >L, Lisa > >Instant communication and communion > >Lamerica > >emeralds in glass > >Lamerica > >searchlights at the twilight > >Lamerica > >stoned streets in the pale dawn > >Lamerica > >robbed in exile > >Lamerica > >swift beat of a proud heart > >Lamerica > >eyes like twenty > >Lamerica > >swift dream > >Lamerica > >frozen heart > >Lamerica > >soldiers doom > >Lamerica > >clouds and struggles > >Lamerica > >Nighthawk > >doomed from the start > >Lamerica > >"That’s how I met her, > >Lamerica > >lonely and frozen > >Lamerica > >and sullen yes > >Lamerica > >right from the start" > >Then stop > >Go > >The wilderness between > >Go round the march > If I am your empress then yes, I sure as hell am being treated > coldly. That’s for damn sure. If I am not your empress, then I sure > as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. If I am only Lisa Agnes > Gardner, then I sure as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. > I am being treated with a total lack of understanding, and I am > being treated with cold and with abuse. Maybe this is the reason > for some of the loneliness? Maybe this is the reason for some of > the sullen-ness? And that was only really towards my mother, who > was extremely abusive towards me both physically, mentally, > and emotionally. You sound like you might be talking from my > mother’s perspective. > The slapping hand, the knives, the buried stories of deep hurting > wives. My life like a topsy-turvy pile of delicately balanced glasses > that got smashed and now sometimes seems broken beyond repair. > Me living most of my life in fright and disorientation and a constant > state of wariness, trying to avoid the swinging hand and all that other > stuff. I have only managed to get free of some of this fear in > the last six years or so of my life. To do this has taken a tremendous, > huge effort on my part. > I had a dream where I was laying down on a floor. A man was > helping me to pile wine glasses one on top of the other to make > a kind of ‘wine-glass’ sculpture. The thing had gotten about > two feet tall or so. Then I was overcome with despair in the > dream and feelings of needing to give up because I felt like > everything was just broken beyond repair. I said to the man, > ‘This is my life’ and then I took my right hand and smashed the > whole pile of glasses into fragments. > That’s how I sometimes feel: that things in me must be broken > beyond repair and that only god can heal me. > But I have something very beautiful and living in me. I am going to > try to nurture that thing. > So I am not sure what you are telling me here: in your poem am > I once again the big, bad thing that argues well and makes sense > (and that is a learned skill, I had to learn that through the study of mathematics) > and so is cold? Or am I the one who is misunderstood and treated > coldly? Because I definitely see myself as the latter. So please tell > me straight out: what is it that you are trying to say to me, Limbo? > Lisa

Lisa……….I like you a lot and that includes respect and wish to become reacquainted after that nasty episode a few weeks back………I to am tertiary educated in science and deeply regret any of the confusion and hostility that occurred some time ago……….believe me it was not a personal attack but a difference of opinion and a lack of sensibility on both our parts…………please forgive me………..I only wish we can bury that past and resurrect a bright and fulfilling future that is mutually beneficial to the both of us and others……….supportive and loving. The above poem I sent to you was conciliatory in nature ……please to not read anything beyond that in to it. Here’s hoping for a future……….best wishes Limbo ps- I am no way representative of your mother………my soul is borne of love and compassion Do you understand now Lisa ??? Limbo

Response:

- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Limbo wrote in message <3b4f2…@iridium.webone.com.au>… >L, Lisa >Cold treatment of our empress >L, Lisa >The transient Universe >L, Lisa >Instant communication and communion >Lamerica >emeralds in glass >Lamerica >searchlights at the twilight >Lamerica >stoned streets in the pale dawn >Lamerica >robbed in exile >Lamerica >swift beat of a proud heart >Lamerica >eyes like twenty >Lamerica >swift dream >Lamerica >frozen heart >Lamerica >soldiers doom >Lamerica >clouds and struggles >Lamerica >Nighthawk >doomed from the start >Lamerica >"That’s how I met her, >Lamerica >lonely and frozen >Lamerica >and sullen yes >Lamerica >right from the start" >Then stop >Go >The wilderness between >Go round the march

If I am your empress then yes, I sure as hell am being treated coldly. That’s for damn sure. If I am not your empress, then I sure as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. If I am only Lisa Agnes Gardner, then I sure as hell am being treated coldly, that’s for sure. I am being treated with a total lack of understanding, and I am being treated with cold and with abuse. Maybe this is the reason for some of the loneliness? Maybe this is the reason for some of the sullen-ness? And that was only really towards my mother, who was extremely abusive towards me both physically, mentally, and emotionally. You sound like you might be talking from my mother’s perspective. The slapping hand, the knives, the buried stories of deep hurting wives. My life like a topsy-turvy pile of delicately balanced glasses that got smashed and now sometimes seems broken beyond repair. Me living most of my life in fright and disorientation and a constant state of wariness, trying to avoid the swinging hand and all that other stuff. I have only managed to get free of some of this fear in the last six years or so of my life. To do this has taken a tremendous, huge effort on my part. I had a dream where I was laying down on a floor. A man was helping me to pile wine glasses one on top of the other to make a kind of ‘wine-glass’ sculpture. The thing had gotten about two feet tall or so. Then I was overcome with despair in the dream and feelings of needing to give up because I felt like everything was just broken beyond repair. I said to the man, ‘This is my life’ and then I took my right hand and smashed the whole pile of glasses into fragments. That’s how I sometimes feel: that things in me must be broken beyond repair and that only god can heal me. But I have something very beautiful and living in me. I am going to try to nurture that thing. So I am not sure what you are telling me here: in your poem am I once again the big, bad thing that argues well and makes sense (and that is a learned skill, I had to learn that through the study of mathematics) and so is cold? Or am I the one who is misunderstood and treated coldly? Because I definitely see myself as the latter. So please tell me straight out: what is it that you are trying to say to me, Limbo? Lisa

Response:

L, Lisa Cold treatment of our empress L, Lisa The transient Universe L, Lisa Instant communication and communion Lamerica emeralds in glass Lamerica searchlights at the twilight Lamerica stoned streets in the pale dawn Lamerica robbed in exile Lamerica swift beat of a proud heart Lamerica eyes like twenty Lamerica swift dream Lamerica frozen heart Lamerica soldiers doom Lamerica clouds and struggles Lamerica Nighthawk doomed from the start Lamerica "That’s how I met her, Lamerica lonely and frozen Lamerica and sullen yes Lamerica right from the start" Then stop Go The wilderness between Go round the march