no man is an island

Question:

Need to *make* a difference, or *be seen* to make one? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -naturallywe…@yahoo.com wrote: > I believe that people need to be seen as making a (positive) difference > in this world, though of course how much depends on the individual. > That can be through accomplishments (such as making music that others > enjoy). However, for me at least, it’s something I need to be doing > often; and it’s very difficult to conceive of being so busy > accomplishing something of that nature – or even to know of such a > thing a person could do – to have no free time that I could (easily, in > theory ) spend making another person happy by providing mere company > (assuming said person enjoys my company). (In turn, that person > probably has to provide some level of enjoyment to me in the process.) > — > Joe > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Response:

1 1/2 years is not very long. It may take much longer than that to realize that you need human contact. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -js…@worldnet.att.net wrote: > thanks for the responses. i can see rationally why people would need other > people, or would choose to need other people. but i still think that > something has to happen for me to realize that i want to be with other > people. i do enjoy volunteering to help others, and it does bring some > fulfillment to my life. i enjoy having my family visit me for thanksgiving. > i really appreciated listening to other people regarding my post. i think i > will keep on working on this, since i definitely want to live longer!! > on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal > contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is > difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of > itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical… > J

Response:

BD wrote in message … >Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?…

I plead ignorance on what you mean. Each individual must look within themselves and find that divine spark of self-worth which is in each of us, no matter what station in life.

Response:

You asked "i have very limited insight about the reason why people need other people and cannot be alone. any ideas?" I was just saying that, well… Some people don’t need people… I spend mnths without human contact… But still enjoy being around others.. I know people who couldn’t exist without constant interaction.. And I’ve heard of people who couldn’t live with people at all.. So.. Your question should be "Why do *I* need other people…." "mr. b." <b…@telisphere.com> wrote in message

news:G9LY5.28$x8.137890@bcandid.telisphere.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BD wrote in message … > >Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?… > I plead ignorance on what you mean. Each individual must look within > themselves and find that divine spark of self-worth which is in each of us, > no matter what station in life.

Response:

: <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

: news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… :> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some : insight. :> hope this is not too confusing or complicated. :> :> basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been : working :> and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other :> people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and : not :> need any close friends. :> :> my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do :> people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, : why :> does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do :> people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or :> biological? :> :> i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is : faster :> to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if : i :> need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can : figure :> it out though it takes more time. :> 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at :> myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other :> mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. :> :> as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people : need :> other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? Everyone’s different; I’m definately a loner (with no desire for relationships, in fact all that intimate crap makes me fell ill) at 31, and intend to stay that way forever (have lived alone for the last 10 years, pure heaven!). Just think very carefully about it, don’t be off by yourself if you really do want people to be around. And i’m sure there are loads of natural loners in relationships because they feel its expected or for whatever reason, that must be pretty awful for them and their partners. Just remember, not everyone needs other people, most seem to (or are they just trying to fit in?) Stephen Botha. .

Response:

If one is their own best friend, then shyness or the lack thereof will never be an issue. think about it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"I don’t think getting terribly rational about this issue will do much. If >you are happy living alone, not getting sex and not having companions then >there’s no problem with it apart from the neighbours thinking you’re a weird >loner. But if you are not happy with an uneventful life but find the costs >of getting these things too much well…"

Response:

Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?… <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. > hope this is not too confusing or complicated. > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological? > i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas?

Response:

In article <KOUX5.4128$Er5.2…@news.indigo.ie>, "John" <ether…@hotmail.com> wrote: > Apart from working from home (which I’m doing for the last couple of months) > I’ve never encountered a work environment that doesn’t implicitly require > you to be social. If you aren’t social you are considered weird and unwanted > by the firm. This might be different in software engineering firms, but the > workplace can be the most trying places for a shy person.

I don’t think it’s different in software-engineering firms, because I’ve worked with other programmers (such as now!) and am surely seen as unsociable (I’ve heard them say it about others who interact very little). I’ve even been turned down for programming jobs because people thought I wouldn’t fit in socially. (I’m better now, though.) Bosses want employees they like and about whom others won’t complain. I suppose that if people are extremely busy, they may not have time to socialize or to look down on others who don’t. I think it’s a myth that coders are antisocial – I’ve found they that they often get along well with each other, because they share so many interests and opinions . Those who believe it now are probably programmers who are so out of the loop that they don’t realize (or don’t want to realize) how others see them. I don’t mean to suggest that 1woman is like this, BTW. — Joe Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Apart from working from home (which I’m doing for the last couple of months) I’ve never encountered a work environment that doesn’t implicitly require you to be social. If you aren’t social you are considered weird and unwanted by the firm. This might be different in software engineering firms, but the workplace can be the most trying places for a shy person. <1womanscyberpers…@my-deja.com> wrote in message

news:90ot2c$1h1$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level > without > > having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues > aside, > > how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far > > suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive > those > > things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people. > Well some contact yea but *minimal* contact. Food yea, you could go to > the grocery (and of course I do) but then if you really didn’t want to > you don’t even have to do that – you can just order your food online – > well yes ok you do have to see the delivery person. Shelter – after > getting an apt etc. one frankly seldom ever has to interact with the > landlord (this is a good thing – you can pay without any > interaction. As for electricity – beyond setting it up with a person > on the phone one can pay pretty much without any human interaction. > So yes just surviving does require some minimum human interaction – but > you can end up surviving frankly with very little . Hence it’s > *totally* believable if a shy person posts that they seldom say more > than 10 words a day. Some work places require more socializing than > others to be sure – but it’s certainly possible to work somewhere where > *very* little socializing is required. And so it can be in effect easy > not to interact with people – and *hard* to actually achieve any *real* > social interaction. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.

Response:

I don’t think getting terribly rational about this issue will do much. If you are happy living alone, not getting sex and not having companions then there’s no problem with it apart from the neighbours thinking you’re a weird loner. But if you are not happy with an uneventful life but find the costs of getting these things too much well… The post is a little biased – I’m in your situation at the moment, I’ve been working from my apartment for the last three months and I meet next to no-one apart from the shopkeeper and the landlady. But I’m frustated that I’m getting older and have very little experience of women. Also my life is very uneventful, apart from work I’ve nothing else to do. Doing things on your own is boring. I work better on my own and get a certain amount of fullfillment from it but I need more in my life. <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Response:

js…@worldnet.att.net wrote in message … >on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal >contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is >difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of >itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical…

I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level without having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues aside, how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive those things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people.

Response:

> I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level without > having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues aside, > how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far > suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive those > things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people.

Well some contact yea but *minimal* contact. Food yea, you could go to the grocery (and of course I do) but then if you really didn’t want to you don’t even have to do that – you can just order your food online – well yes ok you do have to see the delivery person. Shelter – after getting an apt etc. one frankly seldom ever has to interact with the landlord (this is a good thing – you can pay without any interaction. As for electricity – beyond setting it up with a person on the phone one can pay pretty much without any human interaction. So yes just surviving does require some minimum human interaction – but you can end up surviving frankly with very little . Hence it’s *totally* believable if a shy person posts that they seldom say more than 10 words a day. Some work places require more socializing than others to be sure – but it’s certainly possible to work somewhere where *very* little socializing is required. And so it can be in effect easy not to interact with people – and *hard* to actually achieve any *real* social interaction. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

i agree that minimal contact is required to get on through life (or to survive). society is so modernized that there is less and less dependence on other people. once you have your own car, apartment, telephone, etc. you don’t *need* to *bother* other people. especially on weekends, very few words come out of my mouth, except when receiving calls from my family. and when i do speak, it is almost unrecognizable, i almost have to adjust my voice to become louder, since i haven’t used it for so long. in workplace, i do have to interact with other people, not necessarily socialize. i much prefer to talk about work than to make up some *chit-chat*, even if i really don’t want to be so workaholic. <1womanscyberpers…@my-deja.com> wrote in message

Response:

In article <90h0aq$jg…@nnrp1.deja.com>, epe…@my-deja.com wrote: > This is the way > it has always worked and always has worked.

This sentence brough to you by the Department of Redundancy and Duplication Bureau. I meant to say "and always will work." Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

thanks for the responses. i can see rationally why people would need other people, or would choose to need other people. but i still think that something has to happen for me to realize that i want to be with other people. i do enjoy volunteering to help others, and it does bring some fulfillment to my life. i enjoy having my family visit me for thanksgiving. i really appreciated listening to other people regarding my post. i think i will keep on working on this, since i definitely want to live longer!! on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical… J <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

Response:

In article <QpFW5.33069$II2.2965…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "1womanscyberpersona" <nowherewo…@nowhereland.com> wrote: > > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been > working > > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > > people. > This isn’t all that hard to do once your out in the real world

I second that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > > need any close friends. > > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, > why > > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > > biological? > Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages > to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* > people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those > replies answer it. Phil also posted a very wise reply. > I can certainly conceive of a *productive* life without really any other > people. Suppose for example (this is not autobiographical) one goes to work > does a job and comes home and writes music or something. Now I do tend to > feel that if no one else ever heard the music it would lack fulfillment in > some way (no trees falling in forest that nobody hears please . But > suppose from time to time you played a local place (even as a solo musician) > and the crowd seemed happy and you shared a part of yourself. This could be > a productive and fulfilling life. Now yes it does involve *other* people > (the audience) – it is *impossible* for *me* to conceive of a purposefull > life that doesn’t involve other people *in some way*. And yet you could > still have no friends, no significant other, and yet be *reasonably* > content! Or so I believe. Now there are certainly fields in which it is > harder (or near impossible) to achieve anything in alone than music – but my > example was merely intended to illustrate a point. > Now, I’m not advocating nor personally trying to live a totally solitary > life like that (that’s one of the reasons I post here , but hmm it’s not > totally invalid. A certain amount of contentment could possibly acheived > alone and may never be achieved if we expect doing social things alone to > provide it (of course I make this error all the time . Although social > relationships may *help* us achieve it perhaps, or augment it, or add other > pleasures perhaps. I don’t know.

I believe that people need to be seen as making a (positive) difference in this world, though of course how much depends on the individual. That can be through accomplishments (such as making music that others enjoy). However, for me at least, it’s something I need to be doing often; and it’s very difficult to conceive of being so busy accomplishing something of that nature – or even to know of such a thing a person could do – to have no free time that I could (easily, in theory ) spend making another person happy by providing mere company (assuming said person enjoys my company). (In turn, that person probably has to provide some level of enjoyment to me in the process.) — Joe Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

Personaly I have found I really do need people, after I finished high school and everone did there own thing and moved away for jobs and schools, I was left very alone. I had a really hard time makeing frineds since I am shy, and it I now find that not having these frineds, these people in my life has left me with a big void, and has cauesed me to be very deprsssed and unhappy. So for me I would say I need that kind of contact and for a while I have just not got it… Chris

Response:

In article <QpFW5.33069$II2.2965…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "1womanscyberpersona" <nowherewo…@nowhereland.com> wrote: > Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages > to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* > people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those > replies answer it.

Maybe that isn’t a question that can be answered. I’ve gone through a period of nearly literal hell (over now, fortunately) over the past couple of years, and I think that I can say that I percieve that I don’t *need* anything. I don’t think anybody *needs* anything. Basically, human beings work like this. They live for a while and then they die. In the mean time, they either reproduce or they don’t. This is, basically, all the material universe cares about. This is the way it has always worked and always has worked. Beyond that, it comes down to want. Do you want to isolate yourself from people? OK, but maybe you won’t live so long, and maybe you won’t have as much fun. Do you want to be around people? OK, but you have to learn (which is hard), and you’ll get more communicable diseases, but overall you’ll probably live longer and have more fun. Many people might think this a bleak worldview, but I find it liberating and exhilarating. I think a lot of people are so scared of consequences that they paint themselves into corners. There’s nothing like being forced by circumstance to realize that all your elaborate feints, rituals, and safeguards don’t assure absolute security to break one of the habit. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

> my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer:

do people need other people to live? Human babies do not live very well, and sometimes die when give basic care but never touched. Married people live longer then single people. People with pets live longer then those without. In short I would say, yes. For that matter the fact that you, feeling the blues, seek out advice from other people (all be it strangers on Usenet) suggests you feel some need for other people. According to recent and quite comprehensive studies on laugher, it is much more likely that you will laugh out loud when you are with other people. Furthermore, it is likely that you will laugh at your own jokes. Laughter is a social gesture that communicates not only your amusement but rather your friendly and relaxed attitude, which is important so that people will know your kidding when you say things like, "Get a life." — – Joel C. "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." – Hubert Humphrey Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.

Response:

i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. hope this is not too confusing or complicated. basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not need any close friends. my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or biological? i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure it out though it takes more time. 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? J

Response:

<js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message

instinctive/genetic? If we evolved from monkey thingies and they group type animals like wolves and stuff…I dunno. As you can see my understanding of the sciences is limited.

Response:

> basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people.

This isn’t all that hard to do once your out in the real world >if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological?

Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those replies answer it. Phil also posted a very wise reply. I can certainly conceive of a *productive* life without really any other people. Suppose for example (this is not autobiographical) one goes to work does a job and comes home and writes music or something. Now I do tend to feel that if no one else ever heard the music it would lack fulfillment in some way (no trees falling in forest that nobody hears please . But suppose from time to time you played a local place (even as a solo musician) and the crowd seemed happy and you shared a part of yourself. This could be a productive and fulfilling life. Now yes it does involve *other* people (the audience) – it is *impossible* for *me* to conceive of a purposefull life that doesn’t involve other people *in some way*. And yet you could still have no friends, no significant other, and yet be *reasonably* content! Or so I believe. Now there are certainly fields in which it is harder (or near impossible) to achieve anything in alone than music – but my example was merely intended to illustrate a point. Now, I’m not advocating nor personally trying to live a totally solitary life like that (that’s one of the reasons I post here , but hmm it’s not totally invalid. A certain amount of contentment could possibly acheived alone and may never be achieved if we expect doing social things alone to provide it (of course I make this error all the time . Although social relationships may *help* us achieve it perhaps, or augment it, or add other pleasures perhaps. I don’t know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J

Response:

Hmmmmmm……….why we need other people……. So you can hug them…….talk to them…….touch them……..go out on the town with them, or just hang around and relax…….Talk about your problems……enjoy dinner with someone…..or lunch…….or both……if you have a g/f, to kiss and hold her….. Yes, to hear a joke or tell a joke is a lot easier with another person….:)…… Have a discussion with somone and see their reactions……share a laugh, or have a shoulder to cry on……..these are the reasons off the top of my head, I’m sure there are many more If I could think a bit more….=) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. >hope this is not too confusing or complicated. >basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working >and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other >people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not >need any close friends. >my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do >people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why >does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do >people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or >biological? >i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster >to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i >need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure >it out though it takes more time. >2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at >myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other >mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. >as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need >other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J

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Lonely Loneliness

You are not alone — Lonely Loneliness