Filed under: Overcome loneliness
Question:
If I come in to work on a Saturday, Joe buys us all chips and mushy peas from the Golden Kitchen on the Welly Road… OTS "OB" <lewi…@menta.net> wrote in message news:3b4f783d@news.cablecat.com…
&c
Response:
OB wrote: > But the worst part of seeking work is discovering you don’t want to work at > all.
Heh. I’m struggling with this myself. With the thought in mind of being one of the first rats off the sinking ship, I recently took a severance package at work. For the first time in my adult life, I am Idle and (for the rest of the year, anyway) have no financial pressure to resume working. It is golden. > I cheerfully admit to having no clue as to what "Business > English" consists of or why anyone would want to learn it,
B.E. courses should include the word "pudding". I once took a Chinese colleague with limited English ability to dinner (it is common to have to describe menu items in this circumstance, e.g. Surf & Turf), but I was at a complete loss as to how to describe pudding in simple terms. Disraeli
Response:
I seem to have mislaid my Private Eye book of newspaper cuttings, by I can almost get it from memory. It went roughly like this: SEWAGE the monthly trade journal of the sewage and effluent disposal industry seeks sub-editor. Candidate must demonstrate an enthusiastic interest in the subject and related products. Last night I was trying to further my plan to move to Segovia this autumn, by seeking jobs on the Internet. Does anyone else get that sinking feeling and strong temptation to lie when asked to list experience, qualifications, skills? I spent about an hour going through various pages of forms for a Spanish job search service, before getting to the last page, hitting "send" and discovering my browser was, quote, "out of date" and couldn’t handle the stress. And a couple of (finally unsent) pages back I had been glibly offering my services as an "inform
Question:
Scott Gentile II wrote It would–1952, though this edition was published in 1995. This is inconsequential; however, as Catholic doctrine doesn’t change, and the Baltimore Catechism is as valid as the new Catechism. You say this is inconsequential, how can you know this? If there is any effect, upon anybody, good, bad, or indifferent, then in as much as that is the case, there would be consequence. Why would anybody imagine, that an older edition of the Catechism be kept up in new printings? Could it be that the newest edition does not meet to your full satisfaction?
Why are you attempting to twist my words? The new Catechism meets to my fullest satisfaction; however, there are still cases in which the good old Baltimore Catechism comes in handy. Again, the book has its Imprimatur, and I have every right to use it. As I recalled seeing the title of Co-Redemptrix in my copy of the Baltimore Catechism, it was simply more useful for me this time around. Ah, now we get to the crux. You find wiggle room in the older edition, that the new edition no longer gives you.
No, the newer edition simply did not contain this specific thing I was looking for: No single body of the Catechism will contain every bit of Catholic doctrine. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Actually, I am in full agreement with the agenda set forth by Vatican II; however, I do think that some liberal groups have attempted to ^ that agenda (missing a word here, would it be ‘take’?) too far. Vatican II was primarily pastoral, and this must be a part of our Faith; however, we must not forget the doctrinal part, either. Many in the U.S. seem to focus on the pastoral and throw out the doctrinal; we must maintain a balance. Sounds like you are mincing words, here. It seems as if there are permutations of Vatican II, that you are not happy with. Catholic doctrine is defined in Catechism. The newest edition of Catechism has dropped the reference to "Co-Redemptrix," and there would be reason to do such a thing. It was not done, by accident. This would seem to be one of the permutations, of which you would not be fond. You hearken back to the good old days (pre-Vatican II), in this, and in how many other ways? The splintering of ways, continues. Human nature is as such. For 2000 years, our Faith, Catholic, has experienced disunity that has led to many break away groups, going their own way. Islam, Reformation, and each time any new development comes up in the Church, some members are unhappy with it. Are you party to some new break? Is your version of Catholic more valid than that of whom would fully embrace Vatican II?
These are your assumptions, and they are false. The newest edition of the catechism has not dropped the title; this version simply did not find it necessary to mention it. This does not mean that the title is no longer valid. I fully embrace Vatican II; however, I embrace the Council of Trent just as fully. It is fine (and necessary) to take to heart the requirements set forth by Vatican II; however, in doing so, we must not extend the Council beyond what it actually said, nor may we forget other important Church councils and teachings. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I do not consider this a rift between us. Many find Marian veneration a helpful part of their spiritual life; others do not. I have no problem with this, as long as they are not opposed to my devotion to the Blessed Mother. I do not oppose that anyone in particular would have their own specialities. If anybody, Catholic, or not, is turned off to coming to the Faith, Catholic, because of someone’s fervent expression of devotion, to anybody other than Jesus, there is consequence. If Catholics are made to look bad, to anybody’s eyes, then I am made to feel wary, and apprehensive about it. I would love to leave in peace, anybody to their own device, that which helps them come to our Lord Jesus.
I personally do not care if my or any Catholic’s fervent devotion to Mary, some other Saint, or even the Pope makes another individual feel wary. I will not sacrifice my faith or my beliefs for the sake of an image, and I am proud that our Church has also refused to do so. ~Scott G.
Response:
That is an insult to your mother… ~SLG
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Understand the meaning behind the title? The meaning is that there are those who have gone so over-board on Mary that they want to give her the title of redeemer. Now they explain this as simply sharing in the redemptive process .. but hey .. I share in the redemptive process too! Call me co-redeemer! Troll The Co-Redeemer | No "correction" was made, and no formal pronouncement (to the best of my | knowledge) ever has removed the title. | The fact that the Pope doesn’t use the particular title does not mean that | he disapproves of it. | If one understands the meaning behind the title, there is no reason to take | issue with it. | | ~SLG | | | John Paul II in the beginning of his pontificate in very rare | circumstances | | used the title and then seems to have abandoned it altogether – 1985 | | being the last year he referred to Mary by that title. | | He’s a wise man, sensible enough to make correction. | | Troll | | | |
Response:
Baltimore Catechism: It would–1952, though this edition was published in 1995. This is inconsequential; however, as Catholic doctrine doesn’t change, and the Baltimore Catechism is as valid as the new Catechism.
To this date there has not been an authoratative edition of the Catechism published by the American bishops based on the new Catechism. As of August 15, 1997, the Holy Father has "approved and promulgated," the new catechism, declaring the "Latin typical text," to be "the definitive text," of the Catechism. [p. xiii, Catechism of the Catholic Church, Second edition, Liberia Editrice Vaticana, (1997).] This places all previous texts and catechisms in a subordinate role and they are not of equal value to the new catechism. For a discussion of the idea that "Catholic teaching never changes please see the following: In referance to whether the Church currently teaches the title Co-Redemptrix in reference to Mary, some make the following commnet. Comment 4: But there is no such thing as "old" teachings and "current" teachings in the Church, Truth is Truth and never changes. Response: That is true, however the Church’s understanding of certain Truths and the emphasis that it places on them does evolve and develop, even though the central Truths themselves are unchanging. The transmission of divine Revelation by the Church encounters difficulties of various kinds. These arise from the fact that the hidden mysteries of God "by their nature so far transcend the human intellect that even if they are revealed to us and accepted by faith, they remain concealed by the veil of faith itself and are as it were wrapped in darkness." Difficulties arise also from the historical condition that affects the expression of Revelation. 5, "MYSTERIUM ECCLESIAE" And what is more the Church teaches explicitly that certain formulations of doctrine are stated in "…the changeable conceptions of a given epoch…" (5, "MYSTERIUM ECCLESIAE") And that though these Truths are knowable and they themselves are always true, they are only expressible in human language which, at times, brings about its own unique challenges, when expressing the faith. Because of this, the Church teaches that new expressions of the same eternal Truth can come about. …it has sometimes happened that in this habitual usage of the Church certain of these formulas gave way to new expressions which, proposed and approved by the Sacred Magisterium, presented more clearly or more completely the same meaning. 5, "MYSTERIUM ECCLESIAE" Further on, "MYSTERIUM ECCLESIAE" quotes the opening remarks of John XXIII at Vatican II, teaching that what is eternal and true must be expressed in a way that can be understood. "This certain and unchangeable doctrine, to which faithful obedience is due, has to be explored and presented in a way that is demanded by our times. One thing is the deposit of faith, which consists of the truths contained in sacred doctrine, another thing is the manner of presentation…" 5, "MYSTERIUM ECCLESIAE" So, even though the truth of the title, Co-Redemptrix, may be within Tradition and Scripture, (though I am not here defining what the title means) the Church does not seem to want to express that Truth (what ever it may be) under this particular title. My only concern here is "does the Church teach this particular title?" It seems that it does not. The Truth of what the title may represent is still taught by the Church, but the Church seems to be saying that this particular title does not seem to communicate that Truth as clearly as it might. Richard Rust
Response:
Scott Gentile II wrote It would–1952, though this edition was published in 1995. This is inconsequential; however, as Catholic doctrine doesn’t change, and the Baltimore Catechism is as valid as the new Catechism.
You say this is inconsequential, how can you know this? If there is any effect, upon anybody, good, bad, or indifferent, then in as much as that is the case, there would be consequence. Why would anybody imagine, that an older edition of the Catechism be kept up in new printings? Could it be that the newest edition does not meet to your full satisfaction? As I recalled seeing the title of Co-Redemptrix in my copy of the Baltimore Catechism, it was simply more useful for me this time around.
Ah, now we get to the crux. You find wiggle room in the older edition, that the new edition no longer gives you. Actually, I am in full agreement with the agenda set forth by Vatican II; however, I do think that some liberal groups have attempted to ^ that
agenda (missing a word here, would it be ‘take’?) too far. Vatican II was primarily pastoral, and this must be a part of our Faith; however, we must not forget the doctrinal part, either. Many in the U.S. seem to focus on the pastoral and throw out the doctrinal; we must maintain a balance.
Sounds like you are mincing words, here. It seems as if there are permutations of Vatican II, that you are not happy with. Catholic doctrine is defined in Catechism. The newest edition of Catechism has dropped the reference to "Co-Redemptrix," and there would be reason to do such a thing. It was not done, by accident. This would seem to be one of the permutations, of which you would not be fond. You hearken back to the good old days (pre-Vatican II), in this, and in how many other ways? The splintering of ways, continues. Human nature is as such. For 2000 years, our Faith, Catholic, has experienced disunity that has led to many break away groups, going their own way. Islam, Reformation, and each time any new development comes up in the Church, some members are unhappy with it. Are you party to some new break? Is your version of Catholic more valid than that of whom would fully embrace Vatican II? They are indeed "beneath" Jesus; however, they help to bring us closer to him, and I find Marian devotion particularly useful to that end. Mary is a wonderful example for so many: women, mothers; some may find it easier to identify with her (or with some other saint), and this is a good thing, as it will bring them closer to her Son. St. Francis de Sales had a dream in which Jesus told him to tell others to come to Him through His mother, Mary. She simply makes the path to Jesus easier for some.
Would this have a correlation to what you say here? Making straight, the paths of the Lord. Where have I heard that before? Would that have been John the Baptist? It definitely sounds like it has a familiar ring to me. I do not consider this a rift between us. Many find Marian veneration a helpful part of their spiritual life; others do not. I have no problem with this, as long as they are not opposed to my devotion to the Blessed Mother.
I do not oppose that anyone in particular would have their own specialities. If anybody, Catholic, or not, is turned off to coming to the Faith, Catholic, because of someone’s fervent expression of devotion, to anybody other than Jesus, there is consequence. If Catholics are made to look bad, to anybody’s eyes, then I am made to feel wary, and apprehensive about it. I would love to leave in peace, anybody to their own device, that which helps them come to our Lord Jesus. ~SLG
— Sincerely, Robert G. Wolfert P.S. Peace be with you, Scott.
Response:
Scott Gentile II wrote Baltimore Catechism, No. 3 Father Connell’s Confraternity Edition Question #87 (d) Because of her consent to accept the office of Mother of the Redeemer, and also because of her merits in intimately sharing the sufferings of her Divine Son for the salvation of mankind, the Blessed Virgin is given the title of Co-Redemptrix of the human race. ~Scott Gentile II Hello Scott, Would you mind answering some questions for me about your post? What year was the copyright on the Baltimore Catechism, No. 3 Father Connell’s Confraternity Edition? If I remember it correctly, it would be from the pre-Vatican II Era, wouldn’t it? Why do you not use the most recent available copyrighted edition of the Catechism? You do realize that our Pope, John Paul II, called for and approved of our newest edition of the Catechism, don’t you? Do you have problems with the outcome of the Vatican II Conference? Are things not looking the way you would choose them to, in our Church, in light of the outcome of Vatican II? I would prefer that there not be this difficulty about our Faith, Catholic, between us. It is correct, at the intercessory level, that a Saint could help us. Mary is one of the most important Saints. The devotees of Mary would probably not hesitate to say that Mary is the most important of Saints. Everyone has their own viewpoint, and speciality. The different members of the Body of Christ have each, their own calling. Everyone’s calling is not the same. I believe it takes all kinds to make up the sum total of all that there is, in the Body of Christ. My own speciality would seem to lean towards the magnification of Jesus Christ, in Faith, Hope, and Love. I cannot bring myself to contemplate on the importance, comparatively, of any other person, but God, Himself. I would not like to find fault in any other person’s expression of their Faith, but that it feels important for me to remind all people, and not just Catholics, or other Christians, but all people in our existence, about the Word of God. I, personally, just feel stuck on Jesus, and please don’t be offended, but not even any of the Saints, including Mary, can compare to Him, in my book. What I say doesn’t seem to take anything away from any of the Saints, as I see it. I believe in the Saints just fine, but all of us, including the Saints, and even Mary, are beneath Jesus. I know that I can and do make errors, in the life I have been given. It is part and parcel to our existence, as humans, as I see it. I know that I am prone to sticking my foot in my mouth. That is one of my specialities. ;~) I would hope and pray, even to Mary (though I am not practiced at this), to intercede for us, to find a way to work through our differences. It has been suggested to me by a Fr. Mike, whom I recently met, that I participate in Adoration in the Holy of Holies, in our local Parish. This would be a good thing for me, I imagine. What would you say, Scott? — Sincerely, Robert G. Wolfert P.S. Peace Be With You, Scott.
Response:
Marian Days Bring Vietnamese Community Together By Fr. Anthony McGuire The name Carthage, Missouri struck a bell. Carthage is the name of one of the small Missouri towns Mark Twain wrote about. But Mark Twain would not believe what has become of Carthage. Each year in August, Carthage becomes a Vietnamese Catholic village. Right in the middle of the Bible Belt Ozarks, Carthage hosts Marian Days, sponsored by a Vietnamese Catholic community, the Congregation of the Mother Co-Redemptrix. This year, around 50,000 Vietnamese Catholics set up tents throughout the town and participated in three days of prayer and devotion to the Immaculate Heart of Mary. They went to confession around the clock, attended workshops on youth, family, and aging; sang with gusto during processions and liturgies, and thoroughly engulfed the 10,000 inhabitants of Carthage. When the first Marian Days started in 1977 with 1,700 faithful, the locals picketed and taunted the Vietnamese Catholics. But little by little, they were impressed by their devotion, their patience and long suffering, so much so that now, Friday of Marian Days is declared a local holiday: Vietnamese Day. Some of the locals take over booths selling distinctly American food: hot dogs, hamburgers, fries. Others rent their property for tent space and all look forward to the influx of patrons for their businesses. Over the years, Marian Days have proven to be an ecumenical and economical success. The sponsoring religious community, the Community of Mary Co-Redemptrix, has an interesting history. Canonically established in 1953, the order experienced rapid growth in Vietnam, principally because of the saintly example of its founder, Dominic Mary Fran Linh Thu, known as Father Dominic of the Cross, who is still thriving in Vietnam at age 94. Known for deep prayer and simple lifestyle, Fr. Dominic’s cross included two years of imprisonment by the Vietnamese government. His reaction: "It is God’s grace for a priest to be imprisoned. Imprisonment is a long and blessed retreat for a priest." In 1975, at the fall of Saigon, more than half the community, 185 members, priests, brothers and candidates, piled into boats and with great faith, sailed into the ocean. The were picked up by an American cargo ship and, after some time, ended up in Fort Chafee, Ark., where a Catholic Chaplain connected them with Bishop Bernard Law of Springfield-Cape Girardeau Diocese, who at that moment was looking for a use for a seminary closed by a college of the Oblates of Mary Immaculate. The bishop gave it to them for $1. After an initial shakedown of the community (some went to local dioceses, some left religious life altogether), the community has bounced back to 228 priests, brothers, novices, postulants and candidates. A great attraction is that it is an Asian community, combining the devotion, music, extended family spirit, sense of respect for the elderly and authority, self-reliance, and simplicity of life. Each priest and brother has a cell with a bed, desk and chair, no more. The mystique of the founder looms large as an ongoing inspiration. The congregation hosted the meeting of the Community of Vietnamese Clergy an Religious in the USA. There are over 500 Vietnamese priests and over 400 Vietnamese Sisters. About 115 of them gathered at Carthage to reflect on their ministry in this new land: on loneliness in the mission and how to overcome it, on integration with American clergy and laity and how to achieve it; on youth and how to communicate culture and faith to them. At the meeting Archbishop Pham Minh Man of Ho Chi Minh City shared news of the way the Church in Vietnam was progressing in numbers and in deeper formation of priests, religious and laity despite government interference. It was an inspiration to me to see such a thriving religious movement. It is no wonder that with so much fervent prayer and devotion so many Vietnamese enter our seminaries and novitiates. No wonder people have responded so generously so that the congregation has been able to construct a new home for aged Vietnamese priests and brothers and a new $5 million meeting hall. The prayers and witness are at the heart of it. May that prayer and witness endure for many generations. "Strangers in our Midst" copyright 1999 USCC. All Rights Reserved. Office of Migration & Refugee Services National Conference of Catholic Bishops/United States Catholic Conference 3211 4th Street, N.E., Washington, DC 20017-1194 (202) 541-3000 October 22, 1999 Copyright
Question:
No its not idiotic whining. I know this feeling. I’m sorry you feel so bad. Nicky
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – Ignore this post. Idiotic whining of a useless fuck. Kahnadah And I can’t find one anywhere near me. I don’t want the physical part all that much. All I want is to give another person some pleasure, and to show a lady that I care about her. I can do that with words, touches, kisses and the like. I am furious that I can’t give that to anyone. I want so much to love someone. To share my thoughts and to listen to the thoughts of another. I want to hold my girl after she has had a bad day. I want to hold her when she gets great news. I want to be the person someone runs home to talk to. But that’s not happening. It never will. That fact consumes me. I cannot overcome this. Getting better isn’t a big priority when I have no reason to. Why should I try? I can’t se a reason. Fade away. No one will miss me. I know that. Kahnadah — I had this dream, Where I relish the fray, And the screaming filled my head all day. Tragically Hip, "Nautical Disaster"
Response:
And I can’t find one anywhere near me. I don’t want the physical part all that much. All I want is to give another person some pleasure, and to show a lady that I care about her. I can do that with words, touches, kisses and the like. I am furious that I can’t give that to anyone. I want so much to love someone. To share my thoughts and to listen to the thoughts of another. I want to hold my girl after she has had a bad day. I want to hold her when she gets great news. I want to be the person someone runs home to talk to. But that’s not happening. It never will. That fact consumes me. I cannot overcome this. Getting better isn’t a big priority when I have no reason to. Why should I try? I can’t se a reason. Fade away. No one will miss me. I know that.
My, that wasn’t what I was expecting when I first read the subject line. Yes, I want all those things too. At times I feel like the only one in the world without a significant other. The loneliness is very hard to deal with. Unfortunately for us both, I don’t have any answers, so I’ll just say that I know very well how you feel. Bruce.
Response:
Ignore this post. Idiotic whining of a useless fuck. Kahnadah
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – And I can’t find one anywhere near me. I don’t want the physical part all that much. All I want is to give another person some pleasure, and to show a lady that I care about her. I can do that with words, touches, kisses and the like. I am furious that I can’t give that to anyone. I want so much to love someone. To share my thoughts and to listen to the thoughts of another. I want to hold my girl after she has had a bad day. I want to hold her when she gets great news. I want to be the person someone runs home to talk to. But that’s not happening. It never will. That fact consumes me. I cannot overcome this. Getting better isn’t a big priority when I have no reason to. Why should I try? I can’t se a reason. Fade away. No one will miss me. I know that. Kahnadah — I had this dream, Where I relish the fray, And the screaming filled my head all day. Tragically Hip, "Nautical Disaster"
Response:
And I can’t find one anywhere near me. I don’t want the physical part all that much. All I want is to give another person some pleasure, and to show a lady that I care about her. I can do that with words, touches, kisses and the like. I am furious that I can’t give that to anyone. I want so much to love someone. To share my thoughts and to listen to the thoughts of another. I want to hold my girl after she has had a bad day. I want to hold her when she gets great news. I want to be the person someone runs home to talk to. But that’s not happening. It never will. That fact consumes me. I cannot overcome this. Getting better isn’t a big priority when I have no reason to. Why should I try? I can’t se a reason. Fade away. No one will miss me. I know that. Kahnadah — I had this dream, Where I relish the fray, And the screaming filled my head all day. Tragically Hip, "Nautical Disaster"
Response:
Question:
Need to *make* a difference, or *be seen* to make one? – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -naturallywe…@yahoo.com wrote: > I believe that people need to be seen as making a (positive) difference > in this world, though of course how much depends on the individual. > That can be through accomplishments (such as making music that others > enjoy). However, for me at least, it’s something I need to be doing > often; and it’s very difficult to conceive of being so busy > accomplishing something of that nature – or even to know of such a > thing a person could do – to have no free time that I could (easily, in > theory 
) spend making another person happy by providing mere company > (assuming said person enjoys my company). (In turn, that person > probably has to provide some level of enjoyment to me in the process.) > — > Joe > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.
Response:
1 1/2 years is not very long. It may take much longer than that to realize that you need human contact. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -js…@worldnet.att.net wrote: > thanks for the responses. i can see rationally why people would need other > people, or would choose to need other people. but i still think that > something has to happen for me to realize that i want to be with other > people. i do enjoy volunteering to help others, and it does bring some > fulfillment to my life. i enjoy having my family visit me for thanksgiving. > i really appreciated listening to other people regarding my post. i think i > will keep on working on this, since i definitely want to live longer!! > on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal > contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is > difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of > itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical… > J
Response:
BD wrote in message … >Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?…
I plead ignorance on what you mean. Each individual must look within themselves and find that divine spark of self-worth which is in each of us, no matter what station in life.
Response:
You asked "i have very limited insight about the reason why people need other people and cannot be alone. any ideas?" I was just saying that, well… Some people don’t need people… I spend mnths without human contact… But still enjoy being around others.. I know people who couldn’t exist without constant interaction.. And I’ve heard of people who couldn’t live with people at all.. So.. Your question should be "Why do *I* need other people…." 
"mr. b." <b…@telisphere.com> wrote in message
news:G9LY5.28$x8.137890@bcandid.telisphere.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> BD wrote in message … > >Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?… > I plead ignorance on what you mean. Each individual must look within > themselves and find that divine spark of self-worth which is in each of us, > no matter what station in life.
Response:
: <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
: news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… :> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some : insight. :> hope this is not too confusing or complicated. :> :> basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been : working :> and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other :> people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and : not :> need any close friends. :> :> my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do :> people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, : why :> does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do :> people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or :> biological? :> :> i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is : faster :> to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if : i :> need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can : figure :> it out though it takes more time. :> 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at :> myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other :> mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. :> :> as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people : need :> other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? Everyone’s different; I’m definately a loner (with no desire for relationships, in fact all that intimate crap makes me fell ill) at 31, and intend to stay that way forever (have lived alone for the last 10 years, pure heaven!). Just think very carefully about it, don’t be off by yourself if you really do want people to be around. And i’m sure there are loads of natural loners in relationships because they feel its expected or for whatever reason, that must be pretty awful for them and their partners. Just remember, not everyone needs other people, most seem to (or are they just trying to fit in?) Stephen Botha. .
Response:
If one is their own best friend, then shyness or the lack thereof will never be an issue. think about it… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->"I don’t think getting terribly rational about this issue will do much. If >you are happy living alone, not getting sex and not having companions then >there’s no problem with it apart from the neighbours thinking you’re a weird >loner. But if you are not happy with an uneventful life but find the costs >of getting these things too much well…"
Response:
Wouldn’t that depend on the individual?… <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. > hope this is not too confusing or complicated. > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological? > i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas?
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In article <KOUX5.4128$Er5.2…@news.indigo.ie>, "John" <ether…@hotmail.com> wrote: > Apart from working from home (which I’m doing for the last couple of months) > I’ve never encountered a work environment that doesn’t implicitly require > you to be social. If you aren’t social you are considered weird and unwanted > by the firm. This might be different in software engineering firms, but the > workplace can be the most trying places for a shy person.
I don’t think it’s different in software-engineering firms, because I’ve worked with other programmers (such as now!) and am surely seen as unsociable (I’ve heard them say it about others who interact very little). I’ve even been turned down for programming jobs because people thought I wouldn’t fit in socially. (I’m better now, though.) Bosses want employees they like and about whom others won’t complain. I suppose that if people are extremely busy, they may not have time to socialize or to look down on others who don’t. I think it’s a myth that coders are antisocial – I’ve found they that they often get along well with each other, because they share so many interests and opinions . Those who believe it now are probably programmers who are so out of the loop that they don’t realize (or don’t want to realize) how others see them. I don’t mean to suggest that 1woman is like this, BTW. — Joe Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Apart from working from home (which I’m doing for the last couple of months) I’ve never encountered a work environment that doesn’t implicitly require you to be social. If you aren’t social you are considered weird and unwanted by the firm. This might be different in software engineering firms, but the workplace can be the most trying places for a shy person. <1womanscyberpers…@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:90ot2c$1h1$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level > without > > having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues > aside, > > how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far > > suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive > those > > things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people. > Well some contact yea but *minimal* contact. Food yea, you could go to > the grocery (and of course I do) but then if you really didn’t want to > you don’t even have to do that – you can just order your food online – > well yes ok you do have to see the delivery person. Shelter – after > getting an apt etc. one frankly seldom ever has to interact with the > landlord (this is a good thing – you can pay without any > interaction. As for electricity – beyond setting it up with a person > on the phone one can pay pretty much without any human interaction. > So yes just surviving does require some minimum human interaction – but > you can end up surviving frankly with very little . Hence it’s > *totally* believable if a shy person posts that they seldom say more > than 10 words a day. Some work places require more socializing than > others to be sure – but it’s certainly possible to work somewhere where > *very* little socializing is required. And so it can be in effect easy > not to interact with people – and *hard* to actually achieve any *real* > social interaction. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.
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I don’t think getting terribly rational about this issue will do much. If you are happy living alone, not getting sex and not having companions then there’s no problem with it apart from the neighbours thinking you’re a weird loner. But if you are not happy with an uneventful life but find the costs of getting these things too much well… The post is a little biased – I’m in your situation at the moment, I’ve been working from my apartment for the last three months and I meet next to no-one apart from the shopkeeper and the landlady. But I’m frustated that I’m getting older and have very little experience of women. Also my life is very uneventful, apart from work I’ve nothing else to do. Doing things on your own is boring. I work better on my own and get a certain amount of fullfillment from it but I need more in my life. <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. > hope this is not too confusing or complicated. > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological? > i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J
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js…@worldnet.att.net wrote in message … >on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal >contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is >difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of >itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical…
I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level without having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues aside, how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive those things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people.
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> I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level without > having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues aside, > how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far > suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive those > things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people.
Well some contact yea but *minimal* contact. Food yea, you could go to the grocery (and of course I do) but then if you really didn’t want to you don’t even have to do that – you can just order your food online – well yes ok you do have to see the delivery person. Shelter – after getting an apt etc. one frankly seldom ever has to interact with the landlord (this is a good thing – you can pay without any interaction. As for electricity – beyond setting it up with a person on the phone one can pay pretty much without any human interaction. So yes just surviving does require some minimum human interaction – but you can end up surviving frankly with very little . Hence it’s *totally* believable if a shy person posts that they seldom say more than 10 words a day. Some work places require more socializing than others to be sure – but it’s certainly possible to work somewhere where *very* little socializing is required. And so it can be in effect easy not to interact with people – and *hard* to actually achieve any *real* social interaction. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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i agree that minimal contact is required to get on through life (or to survive). society is so modernized that there is less and less dependence on other people. once you have your own car, apartment, telephone, etc. you don’t *need* to *bother* other people. especially on weekends, very few words come out of my mouth, except when receiving calls from my family. and when i do speak, it is almost unrecognizable, i almost have to adjust my voice to become louder, since i haven’t used it for so long. in workplace, i do have to interact with other people, not necessarily socialize. i much prefer to talk about work than to make up some *chit-chat*, even if i really don’t want to be so workaholic. <1womanscyberpers…@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:90ot2c$1h1$1@nnrp1.deja.com… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > I am curious about how you manage to survive on a practical level > without > > having much contact with other people. Leaving psychological issues > aside, > > how do you get food, shelter, electricity, etc? My experience so far > > suggests that it is necessary to integrate with society to acheive > those > > things i.e. necessitating contact with lots of people. > Well some contact yea but *minimal* contact. Food yea, you could go to > the grocery (and of course I do) but then if you really didn’t want to > you don’t even have to do that – you can just order your food online – > well yes ok you do have to see the delivery person. Shelter – after > getting an apt etc. one frankly seldom ever has to interact with the > landlord (this is a good thing – you can pay without any > interaction. As for electricity – beyond setting it up with a person > on the phone one can pay pretty much without any human interaction. > So yes just surviving does require some minimum human interaction – but > you can end up surviving frankly with very little . Hence it’s > *totally* believable if a shy person posts that they seldom say more > than 10 words a day. Some work places require more socializing than > others to be sure – but it’s certainly possible to work somewhere where > *very* little socializing is required. And so it can be in effect easy > not to interact with people – and *hard* to actually achieve any *real* > social interaction. > Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ > Before you buy.
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In article <90h0aq$jg…@nnrp1.deja.com>, epe…@my-deja.com wrote: > This is the way > it has always worked and always has worked.
This sentence brough to you by the Department of Redundancy and Duplication Bureau. I meant to say "and always will work." Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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thanks for the responses. i can see rationally why people would need other people, or would choose to need other people. but i still think that something has to happen for me to realize that i want to be with other people. i do enjoy volunteering to help others, and it does bring some fulfillment to my life. i enjoy having my family visit me for thanksgiving. i really appreciated listening to other people regarding my post. i think i will keep on working on this, since i definitely want to live longer!! on the other hand, i have been living here for 1 1/2 yrs. with minimal contact with other people. even if i choose to need other people, it is difficult for me to find others. i guess this is another issue in and of itself. at least, right now i don’t feel that skeptical… J <js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. > hope this is not too confusing or complicated. > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological? > i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J
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In article <QpFW5.33069$II2.2965…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "1womanscyberpersona" <nowherewo…@nowhereland.com> wrote: > > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been > working > > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > > people. > This isn’t all that hard to do once your out in the real world
I second that – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > > need any close friends. > > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, > why > > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > > biological? > Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages > to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* > people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those > replies answer it. Phil also posted a very wise reply. > I can certainly conceive of a *productive* life without really any other > people. Suppose for example (this is not autobiographical) one goes to work > does a job and comes home and writes music or something. Now I do tend to > feel that if no one else ever heard the music it would lack fulfillment in > some way (no trees falling in forest that nobody hears please . But > suppose from time to time you played a local place (even as a solo musician) > and the crowd seemed happy and you shared a part of yourself. This could be > a productive and fulfilling life. Now yes it does involve *other* people > (the audience) – it is *impossible* for *me* to conceive of a purposefull > life that doesn’t involve other people *in some way*. And yet you could > still have no friends, no significant other, and yet be *reasonably* > content! Or so I believe. Now there are certainly fields in which it is > harder (or near impossible) to achieve anything in alone than music – but my > example was merely intended to illustrate a point. > Now, I’m not advocating nor personally trying to live a totally solitary > life like that (that’s one of the reasons I post here , but hmm it’s not > totally invalid. A certain amount of contentment could possibly acheived > alone and may never be achieved if we expect doing social things alone to > provide it (of course I make this error all the time . Although social > relationships may *help* us achieve it perhaps, or augment it, or add other > pleasures perhaps. I don’t know.
I believe that people need to be seen as making a (positive) difference in this world, though of course how much depends on the individual. That can be through accomplishments (such as making music that others enjoy). However, for me at least, it’s something I need to be doing often; and it’s very difficult to conceive of being so busy accomplishing something of that nature – or even to know of such a thing a person could do – to have no free time that I could (easily, in theory ) spend making another person happy by providing mere company (assuming said person enjoys my company). (In turn, that person probably has to provide some level of enjoyment to me in the process.) — Joe Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Personaly I have found I really do need people, after I finished high school and everone did there own thing and moved away for jobs and schools, I was left very alone. I had a really hard time makeing frineds since I am shy, and it I now find that not having these frineds, these people in my life has left me with a big void, and has cauesed me to be very deprsssed and unhappy. So for me I would say I need that kind of contact and for a while I have just not got it… Chris
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In article <QpFW5.33069$II2.2965…@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net>, "1womanscyberpersona" <nowherewo…@nowhereland.com> wrote: > Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages > to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* > people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those > replies answer it.
Maybe that isn’t a question that can be answered. I’ve gone through a period of nearly literal hell (over now, fortunately) over the past couple of years, and I think that I can say that I percieve that I don’t *need* anything. I don’t think anybody *needs* anything. Basically, human beings work like this. They live for a while and then they die. In the mean time, they either reproduce or they don’t. This is, basically, all the material universe cares about. This is the way it has always worked and always has worked. Beyond that, it comes down to want. Do you want to isolate yourself from people? OK, but maybe you won’t live so long, and maybe you won’t have as much fun. Do you want to be around people? OK, but you have to learn (which is hard), and you’ll get more communicable diseases, but overall you’ll probably live longer and have more fun. Many people might think this a bleak worldview, but I find it liberating and exhilarating. I think a lot of people are so scared of consequences that they paint themselves into corners. There’s nothing like being forced by circumstance to realize that all your elaborate feints, rituals, and safeguards don’t assure absolute security to break one of the habit. Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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> my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer:
do people need other people to live? Human babies do not live very well, and sometimes die when give basic care but never touched. Married people live longer then single people. People with pets live longer then those without. In short I would say, yes. For that matter the fact that you, feeling the blues, seek out advice from other people (all be it strangers on Usenet) suggests you feel some need for other people. According to recent and quite comprehensive studies on laugher, it is much more likely that you will laugh out loud when you are with other people. Furthermore, it is likely that you will laugh at your own jokes. Laughter is a social gesture that communicates not only your amusement but rather your friendly and relaxed attitude, which is important so that people will know your kidding when you say things like, "Get a life." — – Joel C. "The right to be heard does not automatically include the right to be taken seriously." – Hubert Humphrey Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. hope this is not too confusing or complicated. basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not need any close friends. my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or biological? i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure it out though it takes more time. 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? J
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<js…@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:UjyW5.17748$0r2.423992@bgtnsc07-news.ops.worldnet.att.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. > hope this is not too confusing or complicated. > basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological? > i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas?
instinctive/genetic? If we evolved from monkey thingies and they group type animals like wolves and stuff…I dunno. As you can see my understanding of the sciences is limited.
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> basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working > and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other > people.
This isn’t all that hard to do once your out in the real world >if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not > need any close friends. > my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do > people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why > does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do > people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or > biological?
Some good replies have been posted here: David posted about some advantages to be gained from people but if the question is really whether one *needs* people rather than whether people have any benifit then I’m not sure those replies answer it. Phil also posted a very wise reply. I can certainly conceive of a *productive* life without really any other people. Suppose for example (this is not autobiographical) one goes to work does a job and comes home and writes music or something. Now I do tend to feel that if no one else ever heard the music it would lack fulfillment in some way (no trees falling in forest that nobody hears please . But suppose from time to time you played a local place (even as a solo musician) and the crowd seemed happy and you shared a part of yourself. This could be a productive and fulfilling life. Now yes it does involve *other* people (the audience) – it is *impossible* for *me* to conceive of a purposefull life that doesn’t involve other people *in some way*. And yet you could still have no friends, no significant other, and yet be *reasonably* content! Or so I believe. Now there are certainly fields in which it is harder (or near impossible) to achieve anything in alone than music – but my example was merely intended to illustrate a point. Now, I’m not advocating nor personally trying to live a totally solitary life like that (that’s one of the reasons I post here , but hmm it’s not totally invalid. A certain amount of contentment could possibly acheived alone and may never be achieved if we expect doing social things alone to provide it (of course I make this error all the time . Although social relationships may *help* us achieve it perhaps, or augment it, or add other pleasures perhaps. I don’t know. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster > to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i > need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure > it out though it takes more time. > 2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at > myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other > mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. > as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need > other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J
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Hmmmmmm……….why we need other people……. So you can hug them…….talk to them…….touch them……..go out on the town with them, or just hang around and relax…….Talk about your problems……enjoy dinner with someone…..or lunch…….or both……if you have a g/f, to kiss and hold her….. Yes, to hear a joke or tell a joke is a lot easier with another person….:)…… Have a discussion with somone and see their reactions……share a laugh, or have a shoulder to cry on……..these are the reasons off the top of my head, I’m sure there are many more If I could think a bit more….=) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->i’m just posting out of the blues. i hope somebody can give me some insight. >hope this is not too confusing or complicated. >basically, i graduated from univ about 1 1/2 years ago. i have been working >and living alone for this length of time with minimal contact with other >people. if i continue like this, i think i can stay alone forever, and not >need any close friends. >my question is very basic, yet i cannot put my finger on the answer: do >people need other people to live?, is it true that no man is an island?, why >does everybody say that they want to reach out to other people? why do >people need to overcome this loneliness? is it something spiritual or >biological? >i have few ideas myself about why people need other people: 1) it is faster >to do things with other people, instead of re-inventing the wheel. BUT if i >need to figure something out by myself, i know that eventually i can figure >it out though it takes more time. >2) it is something biological. when i am alone, it is hard to laugh at >myself. To laugh, one has to be with other people. There are other >mechanisms like tickling that requires other people to be effective. >as you can see, i have very limited insight about the reason why people need >other people and cannot be alone. any ideas? > J
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Question:
Worrying about pursuing relationships with women is a HUGE waste of time. If it’s going to happen it’ll just happen. If not, then the hell with it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I’m in exact same place. Too shy to take the plunge. i’m early 20’s, > feel > I’m quite attractive, but that really means shit, at univ. I’m surrounded by > girls but its > my last year, few months and no more of this. > but I basically have zero female friends. it started in highschool where I > never > hung out with or even dated any girls, and it continued thru univ.. all I > did was work work work and go home, now it’s hit me like a ton of bricks. > yeah I got my drinking buddies and school work mates but that dont fill an > immense void, hell they all have girlfriends and a nice balance in their > lives, but I dont. and I am not one of the ‘cool people’ with a million > friends.. I never even had a girlfriend or been in love before. i feel > quite depressed all the time because of this sorry track record. I don’t > know what the hell I’m gonna do when school is over and i’m working in the > real world – which will be in a few months.. I can’t bare to think of my > future of lonliness. Then some days are productive and I feel like a > million bucks. but that’s rare. I’m not doing that great in school, well > below avg but I’m making it so I don’t care. (it’s engineering, the worst > stuff for a dude with my state of mind right now) Just can’t concentrate > much with this shit on my mind 24/7. I pass up a million opportunities to > open my mouth and start talking to a new girl. i dunno but I just cant do > it. one reason being the fact that if I did get to know her, I’d have to > explain where I’m coming from, a guy with zero relationship experience who > has let life basically pass him by and wants you to help him get out of his > hole of misery. Immediately after the loss of the chance I feel regret and > bitch at myself, saying man you idiot! why didnt you smile or talk to her! > and I ponder about this for the rest of the day until a couple days pass and > it is forgotten.. but some of these events I’ll remember forever. anyway, > I can’t see myself without female companionship for the rest of my life, > won’t make it a few years like this. I (we) are programmed by God to desire > companionship right! Eventually I have to do something but I dont know when > or how I’ll get any guts to do this. God help me and anyone > else in a similar situation… > > Hi everyone, > > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been > able > > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at > by > > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something > and > > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > > and stupid if I did… > > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve > got > > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this > makes > > me feel a complete outsider… > > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
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J Smythe wrote: > Worrying about pursuing relationships with women is a HUGE waste of time. > If it’s going to happen it’ll just happen. If not, then the hell with it.
yep, "relationships" are *way far* along in the process. anyway most guys tend to spend more time looking at nearer goals/desires when they begin to get the first bits of success. > > I’m in exact same place. Too shy to take the plunge. i’m early 20’s, > > feel > > I’m quite attractive, but that really means shit, at univ. I’m surrounded
not true. (anyway, i was never attractive.) > > never > > hung out with or even dated any girls, and it continued thru univ.. all I > > did was work work work and go home, now it’s hit me like a ton of bricks. > > yeah I got my drinking buddies and school work mates but that dont fill an > > immense void, hell they all have girlfriends and a nice balance in their > > lives, but I dont. and I am not one of the ‘cool people’ with a million > > friends.. I never even had a girlfriend or been in love before. i feel > > quite depressed all the time because of this sorry track record. I don’t > > know what the hell I’m gonna do when school is over and i’m working in the > > real world – which will be in a few months.. I can’t bare to think of my > > future of lonliness. Then some days are productive and I feel like a > > million bucks. but that’s rare. I’m not doing that great in school, well > > below avg but I’m making it so I don’t care. (it’s engineering, the worst > > stuff for a dude with my state of mind right now) Just can’t concentrate > > much with this shit on my mind 24/7.
yep yep yep , iwas the same, tho wasn’t as clearly aware as you are.. i dropped. but you should try to gradute, with a "d" avergae if necessary. it’s mostly just paper. you can get all sorts of jobvs with little to do with technical stuff. "sales engneer" for examnple. >I pass up a million opportunities to > > open my mouth and start talking to a new girl. i dunno but I just cant do > > it. one reason being the fact that if I did get to know her, I’d have to > > explain where I’m coming from, a guy with zero relationship experience who > > has let life basically pass him by and wants you to help him get out of > his > > hole of misery. Immediately after the loss of the chance I feel regret > and > > bitch at myself, saying man you idiot! why didnt you smile or talk to her!
well i never even thought as specifically as that. you’re ahead of where i was. > > and I ponder about this for the rest of the day until a couple days pass > and > > it is forgotten.. but some of these events I’ll remember forever. > anyway, > > I can’t see myself without female companionship for the rest of my life, > > won’t make it a few years like this.
yes you will. >I (we) are programmed by God to > desire > > companionship right! Eventually I have to do something but I dont know > when > > or how I’ll get any guts to do this. God help me and anyone > > else in a similar situation…
you are anxious and depressed. keep suffering til you get tired of it. meanwhile plan on doing s9mething crazy. bedding bored married housewives, whatever. > > > Hi everyone, > > > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from > loneliness
.. > > > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve > > got > > > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are > older > > > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this > > makes > > > me feel a complete outsider…
get out! get a job in a major CROWDED urban area, where you can make mistakes on ppl you’ll never see again. best approach learn to make all your career moves look savvy.. keep moving .. fake it all. —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I’m in exact same place. Too shy to take the plunge. i’m early 20’s, feel I’m quite attractive, but that really means shit, at univ. I’m surrounded by girls but its my last year, few months and no more of this. but I basically have zero female friends. it started in highschool where I never hung out with or even dated any girls, and it continued thru univ.. all I did was work work work and go home, now it’s hit me like a ton of bricks. yeah I got my drinking buddies and school work mates but that dont fill an immense void, hell they all have girlfriends and a nice balance in their lives, but I dont. and I am not one of the ‘cool people’ with a million friends.. I never even had a girlfriend or been in love before. i feel quite depressed all the time because of this sorry track record. I don’t know what the hell I’m gonna do when school is over and i’m working in the real world – which will be in a few months.. I can’t bare to think of my future of lonliness. Then some days are productive and I feel like a million bucks. but that’s rare. I’m not doing that great in school, well below avg but I’m making it so I don’t care. (it’s engineering, the worst stuff for a dude with my state of mind right now) Just can’t concentrate much with this shit on my mind 24/7. I pass up a million opportunities to open my mouth and start talking to a new girl. i dunno but I just cant do it. one reason being the fact that if I did get to know her, I’d have to explain where I’m coming from, a guy with zero relationship experience who has let life basically pass him by and wants you to help him get out of his hole of misery. Immediately after the loss of the chance I feel regret and bitch at myself, saying man you idiot! why didnt you smile or talk to her! and I ponder about this for the rest of the day until a couple days pass and it is forgotten.. but some of these events I’ll remember forever. anyway, I can’t see myself without female companionship for the rest of my life, won’t make it a few years like this. I (we) are programmed by God to desire companionship right! Eventually I have to do something but I dont know when or how I’ll get any guts to do this. God help me and anyone else in a similar situation… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been able > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at by > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something and > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > and stupid if I did… > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve got > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this makes > me feel a complete outsider… > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
Response:
Larry wrote: > I’m in exact same place. Too shy to take the plunge. i’m early 20’s, > feel > I’m quite attractive, but that really means shit, at univ. I’m surrounded by > girls but its > my last year, few months and no more of this. > but I basically have zero female friends. it started in highschool where I > never > hung out with or even dated any girls, and it continued thru univ.. all I > did was work work work and go home,
I truly feel for you > now it’s hit me like a ton of bricks.
I definitely know how that feels > yeah I got my drinking buddies and school work mates but that dont fill an > immense void, hell they all have girlfriends and a nice balance in their > lives, but I dont. and I am not one of the ‘cool people’ with a million > friends.. I never even had a girlfriend or been in love before. i feel > quite depressed all the time because of this sorry track record.
I know how that was like… I didn’t get my first female friend till 9th grade and didn’t get my first close female friend till summer of 11th grade. I wish the best of luck for you > I don’t > know what the hell I’m gonna do when school is over and i’m working in the > real world – which will be in a few months.. I can’t bare to think of my > future of lonliness.
That was a very scary thought for me in middle school > Then some days are productive and I feel like a > million bucks. but that’s rare. I’m not doing that great in school, well > below avg but I’m making it so I don’t care. (it’s engineering, the worst > stuff for a dude with my state of mind right now) Just can’t concentrate > much with this shit on my mind 24/7. I pass up a million opportunities to > open my mouth and start talking to a new girl.
You could check out my ‘props’ post on my programming team’s website: http://ppilot.homepage.com/papers.htm > i dunno but I just cant do > it. one reason being the fact that if I did get to know her, I’d have to > explain where I’m coming from, a guy with zero relationship experience who > has let life basically pass him by and wants you to help him get out of his > hole of misery.
If confronted with such a situation where the girl basically wants you to explain this stuff, tell her that you would rather not…. A considerate person would respect that. Another piece of advice is don’t even think about entering a relationship until you’ve sorted out your life. I know this probably looks easier said than done but ultimately, I think you’ll do yourself a disfavor by entering a relationship in the current state your in. And suppose you did one day decide to tell the girl about your situation… A sympathetic and senstive gal would try to help you out 
Not by getting into a relationship with you, but being a good friend to you. > Immediately after the loss of the chance I feel regret and > bitch at myself, saying man you idiot! why didnt you smile or talk to her!
The real problem I can see with this approach is that you’re not really helping the situation If you want to even help the situation, sit down with yourself and ask yourself some tough questions as to why you didn’t talk to the girl. Again, my ‘props’ essay could help make it easier for you to talk to a girl: http://ppilot.homepage.com/papers.htm > and I ponder about this for the rest of the day until a couple days pass and > it is forgotten.. but some of these events I’ll remember forever. anyway, > I can’t see myself without female companionship for the rest of my life, > won’t make it a few years like this. I (we) are programmed by God to desire > companionship right!
I know this will probably be hard for you to grasp, but I have hope for you… Read my response to the original poster of this thread for my experience with having no friends to hang out with in middle school. > Eventually I have to do something but I dont know when > or how I’ll get any guts to do this. God help me and anyone > else in a similar situation…
You should also read my other post available from the papers section of the team’s site. It shows the critical attack points of shyness to target. My best wishes to you – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > Hi everyone, > > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been > able > > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at > by > > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something > and > > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > > and stupid if I did… > > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve > got > > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this > makes > > me feel a complete outsider… > > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
– Team2k Programming Team: http://ppilot.homepage.com To email me, remove ‘3*&’ from my email address. This is to deter spam
Response:
If you want to learn how to attract women, go check out http://www.pickupguide.com read everything on it, read all the mirror sites. Its true, the shit on there works. Once you’ve done your homework, head over to alt.seduction.fast This is a rather Machiavellian approach to women, but its a helluva lot of fun and beats sitting at home watching the spanktrovision — "Chivalry is dead. Women killed it." - Dave Chapelle Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
Response:
> HELLO?? How long have you known this group?
For a couple of years, but it’s the first time I’ve posted… Just wanted to send a ms. in a bottle > I’m telling ya, people…as a whole…suck. Stay on your own man!
Hmm… I’ve been too much on my own and I’m fed up with loneliness… I’m not sure avoiding people is the best solution to our shyness problem… I’d rather try to overcome it as I’ve felt lonely for so long… > I have successfully overdrove my mind in trying to understand women and > socialising! I’m like you, just more fucked up in the head!
"If at first you don’t succeed…". I don’t feel like giving up yet. I feel that I’ve got to experience more things than staying on my own, listening to music, reading books, sitting in front of my computer for hours on end and other boring hobbies that cut you off from the outside, "real" world! I’ve been thinking that life is a sad and uneventful journey and I definitely want to be more "positive" and "outgoing"… Gosh, I really hate those words and I think they sound so out of place when I utter them, but I think it’s worth a try… > I wish you good luck. Try some social group, hobbie, sport of some
description to meet new > people. Try socialising with these people at work and see who they > know….perhaps you could find the girl of your dreams by introduction of a > work colleague? Just a suggestion. Good luck anyway mate!
I’m trying to get to know more people through my new colleagues… Most people I’ve met so far through them are other teachers (I’m a teacher myself btw), not really interesting, but I’ll keep on trying… Who knows? > But for gods sake…DON’T GO TO A NIGHTCLUB!!!! Lol…
Haha! I’ve been to nightclubs already! I don’t mind them, actually… It can be fun sometimes and I don’t mind dancing when I’m pissed ) though I can’t say I’m really fond of dancing as it makes me often feel like a complete moron. > Laters and Cheers….my name is Ian…
Nice to meet you, Ian. You can call me Jay, it’s the English equivalent for my French name… See you later and good luck too… Btw, thanks to Al Leitch for your advice too. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Jay" <jr…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > news:8u1nsd$1mmj$1@spartacus.freesurf.fr… > > Hi everyone, > > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been > able > > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at > by > > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something > and > > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > > and stupid if I did… > > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve > got > > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this > makes > > me feel a complete outsider… > > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
Response:
You’re welcome – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jay wrote: > > HELLO?? How long have you known this group? > For a couple of years, but it’s the first time I’ve posted… Just wanted to > send a ms. in a bottle > > I’m telling ya, people…as a whole…suck. Stay on your own man! > Hmm… I’ve been too much on my own and I’m fed up with loneliness… I’m > not sure avoiding people is the best solution to our shyness problem… I’d > rather try to overcome it as I’ve felt lonely for so long… > > I have successfully overdrove my mind in trying to understand women and > > socialising! I’m like you, just more fucked up in the head! > "If at first you don’t succeed…". I don’t feel like giving up yet. I feel > that I’ve got to experience more things than staying on my own, listening to > music, reading books, sitting in front of my computer for hours on end and > other boring hobbies that cut you off from the outside, "real" world! I’ve > been thinking that life is a sad and uneventful journey and I definitely > want to be more "positive" and "outgoing"… Gosh, I really hate those words > and I think they sound so out of place when I utter them, but I think it’s > worth a try… > > I wish you good luck. Try some social group, hobbie, sport of some > description to meet new > > people. Try socialising with these people at work and see who they > > know….perhaps you could find the girl of your dreams by introduction of > a > > work colleague? Just a suggestion. Good luck anyway mate! > I’m trying to get to know more people through my new colleagues… Most > people I’ve met so far through them are other teachers (I’m a teacher myself > btw), not really interesting, but I’ll keep on trying… Who knows? > > But for gods sake…DON’T GO TO A NIGHTCLUB!!!! Lol… > Haha! I’ve been to nightclubs already! I don’t mind them, actually… It can > be fun sometimes and I don’t mind dancing when I’m pissed ) though I > can’t say I’m really fond of dancing as it makes me often feel like a > complete moron. > > Laters and Cheers….my name is Ian… > Nice to meet you, Ian. You can call me Jay, it’s the English equivalent for > my French name… See you later and good luck too… > Btw, thanks to Al Leitch for your advice too. > > "Jay" <jr…@hotmail.com> wrote in message > > news:8u1nsd$1mmj$1@spartacus.freesurf.fr… > > > Hi everyone, > > > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from > loneliness > > > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been > > able > > > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at > > by > > > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something > > and > > > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > > > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > > > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally > awkard > > > and stupid if I did… > > > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more > or > > > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my > eternal > > > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > > > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve > > got > > > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are > older > > > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this > > makes > > > me feel a complete outsider… > > > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t > think > > > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > > > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only > person > > > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like > us…
– Team2k Programming Team: http://ppilot.homepage.com To email me, remove ‘3*&’ from my email address. This is to deter spam
Response:
Jay wrote: > Hi everyone, > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been able > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at by > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something and > above all to tell them I like them…
I totally know where you’re coming from…. As far saying something, my ‘props’ post could be of help to you: http://ppilot.homepage.com/papers.htm My ‘reducing your shyness’ post could also be of help to you. That’s also available at that link In the way of notifying females that you like them, let me advise you from experience… I used to be too shy when it came to telling them I liked them… But in 11th grade I told the first female about my crush on her. Want to know how she reacted? She was pretty much surprised and wished I had told her sooner From then on, I’ve tried this several more times and each time, the girl reacted just fine! Heck, it even made them happy <smiles> > I’m too afraid of being turned off > that I never try to date anyone…
I can definitely understand that > I tend to think I would make me > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > and stupid if I did…
Generally, I have a feeling that if the girl is a decent person and realizes your just shy, she won’t reject you The way you talk without the awkwardness and everything is if you’ve got the experience. I cover the subject of experience in my ‘props’ essay (first paragraph) > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people.
The fact that you even met these girls is a good sign…. If you can at least connect to them on some level, it shows hope > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve got > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this makes > me feel a complete outsider… > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
Since I’ve dealt with shyness my whole life, I’ve come to believe that there is no such thing as a canned up solution to these shyness problems. Ultimately, the solution is gaining experience and as I explained in my ‘props’ essay, it obviously is no easy task You are most certainly not the only person that suffers from something like this. I have hope for people like you and I speak from experience….. I walked around middle school for three years with nobody to hang out with I felt so hopeless that I’d never find any nice friends. However, in 8th grade, I started programming in QBASIC and as a result, started connecting to a bunch of cool people. Keep in mind I got my first true friend out of this when I least expected it. — Team2k Programming Team: http://ppilot.homepage.com To email me, remove ‘3*&’ from my email address. This is to deter spam
Response:
HELLO?? How long have you known this group? I’m telling ya, people…as a whole…suck. Stay on your own man! I have successfully overdrove my mind in trying to understand women and socialising! I’m like you, just more fucked up in the head! I wish you good luck. Try some social group, hobbie, sport of some description to meet new people. Try socialising with these people at work and see who they know….perhaps you could find the girl of your dreams by introduction of a work colleague? Just a suggestion. Good luck anyway mate! But for gods sake…DON’T GO TO A NIGHTCLUB!!!! Lol… Laters and Cheers….my name is Ian… "Jay" <jr…@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:8u1nsd$1mmj$1@spartacus.freesurf.fr… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi everyone, > I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness > for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been able > to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at by > girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something and > above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off > that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me > completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard > and stupid if I did… > I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or > less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal > regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. > Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve got > barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older > than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this makes > me feel a complete outsider… > I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think > of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out > there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person > who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
Response:
Hi everyone, I’m a French male, twenty something… I’ve been suffering from loneliness for many years now… Although I’ve got a few friends, I’ve never been able to have a stable relationship… I don’t look too ugly and I’m looked at by girls now and then, but the problem is that I’m too shy to say something and above all to tell them I like them… I’m too afraid of being turned off that I never try to date anyone… I tend to think I would make me completely ridiculous to ask someone out, I think I’d sound totally awkard and stupid if I did… I’ve had a few positive contacts with a couple of girls and I was (more or less) at ease with them, but I was too shy to take a plunge, to my eternal regret. I was a student then and therefore it was easy to meet people. Now, I’ve got a position in a small town in the north of France and I’ve got barely any occasions to meet someone. All the people I work with are older than me, are married and have children, or at least a partner and this makes me feel a complete outsider… I’m starting to be resigned to staying lonely all my life… I can’t think of any solution to my predicament… I’d like to know if some of you out there feel the same as I do, at least to know that I’m not the only person who suffers and that there’s still a glimmer of hope for people like us…
Response:
Question:
>I know that it’s nice to have people who understand what you’re going >through, but I personally prefer to hear advice on how to solve my >problems. If somebody understands me, that’s great and all, but the >problem still remains. But if someone can help me figure out how to get >rid of the problem, that’s even better.
Admiral: I am with you on this one. That is why it bothers me so mcuh when supposed "therapists" put a value on NOT giving counseling or advice but all that listening. I could talk to a tape recorder for less that $150 per 45 minute hour. IronicMn
Response:
Hi Angela, > Thanks. The thing that really upsets me, more than anything, was that I was > there for him, whenever he needed help. I saw him through a suicide > attempt, trying to gain acceptance of his sexual preference, all kinds of > heavy stuff…and when I need his help, I mean *really* need his help, he’s > nowhere to be found. Sigh…guess that’s all I can expect, though.
Personally, I really think you can (and should) expect more than that.. > It’s the truth…even when it comes to posting here. I only say about one > tenth of the things I want to say. Everything seems so simple to some > people. They don’t understand that it doesn’t take much to send others over > the edge.
Yeah, I hear that! > I’m sorry that you feel that way, too. I used to let it out in poetry, and > that worked ok, for awhile. Now, though, I’m finding that everything I > write is just the plain truth. No flowery poetic language can mask any of > this.
I don’t really care much for poetry — I’m not at all good at it. I’ve only written one poem in my entire life that I’m proud of, and it’s really nothing more than one of those simple poems with the aabba rhyme scheme. Normally, I’d turn to my comic strip in times of ill-feeling, but as I’ve mentioned several times before, I’m experiencing considerable difficulty with that.. > Well…this isn’t the first time. I guess the fault is mine. I thought I > could count on him. I thought he cared enough to be there for me, to help > me, or even just to talk to me. Guess I was wrong. He must be doing well, > and doesn’t need me, so he doesn’t bother to contact me.
I know what that feels like — to be there for a friend when you’re okay and they deperately need help, only to witness them suddenly vanish when you need a helping hand and they’re well off.. I’m not one to quote lyrics with any regularity, but whenever I hear the song "Kryptonite" by 3 Doors Down, it makes me think of this (ex?) friend of mine.. "You took for granted all the times I never let you down You stumbled in and bumped your head, if not for me then you’d be dead I picked you up and put you back on solid ground" hmm.. > Thank you for saying that. I try so hard to keep quiet…I don’t think > people understand that. And, like I said, I post only about one- tenth of > the things I want to. Even I recognize that this isn’t the place for some > things.
Yeah, but it’s really hard to keep certain thoughts to yourself when you’re having difficulty finding ANY adequate place for them! > Thank you…and I don’t think you’re like that. I think that sometimes, > people find their own problems so overwhelming that they don’t feel they can > offer anyone else any encouragement. I know I often feel that way, and so I > say nothing.
Yes, I agree. However, some people, I think, are just lazy. :) Ryan — If I go crazy, then would you still call me Superman? (3 Doors Down–"Kryptonite") Hey-dee-ho-dee-ho-dee-ho- dee-hi-day-ho-day-hi-aye- ho-dee-dah-aye (Survivor–"Theme Song") Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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Hi Ryan, > I am so sorry. That is easily one of the worst pains in the world.. to > open up your true feelings to a friend, then to have them turn on you > because you revealed a different side to your personality. I’m sorry > to read that your felt (and are still feeling..?) this pain.
Thanks. The thing that really upsets me, more than anything, was that I was there for him, whenever he needed help. I saw him through a suicide attempt, trying to gain acceptance of his sexual preference, all kinds of heavy stuff…and when I need his help, I mean *really* need his help, he’s nowhere to be found. Sigh…guess that’s all I can expect, though. > Your post really makes me hurt, personally, too. I must confess that > there are certain things I think about, that I have never told to a > soul, for fear of what they would do in response. It hurts so much to > keep my feelings inside, but it would hurt just as much, I’d think, if > I told someone.. they would most likely not understand, and push me > away. I’m sorry you’re experiencing somewhat similar pain… I really > wish I was the only one who had to go through something as bad as this.
It’s the truth…even when it comes to posting here. I only say about one tenth of the things I want to say. Everything seems so simple to some people. They don’t understand that it doesn’t take much to send others over the edge. I’m sorry that you feel that way, too. I used to let it out in poetry, and that worked ok, for awhile. Now, though, I’m finding that everything I write is just the plain truth. No flowery poetic language can mask any of this. > However, as someone mentioned, it is possible that your friend has not > pushed you away. I exchange e-mails regularly with a few other online > cartoonists, and sometimes when it takes them a while to reply, I start > to worry "oh no.. I said too much.. it’s all over!" However, > eventually they do write back with a kind response, and my life returns > to normal (until the next time it happens, that is..). The point I’m > trying to make is: a lack of response could possibly mean this person > pushed you away, true, but there’s a strong chance that it might not. > Um, I think IronicMn already said that, actually… but, just thought > I’d give you my take on the same point of view.
Well…this isn’t the first time. I guess the fault is mine. I thought I could count on him. I thought he cared enough to be there for me, to help me, or even just to talk to me. Guess I was wrong. He must be doing well, and doesn’t need me, so he doesn’t bother to contact me. > Ack, I just thought of something: back when I was on this newsgroup a > year ago, I revealed some loneliness tales (via e-mail) to a fellow > college student here, and she pushed me away. I was pushed away for > saying that I was lonely to someone I met on a loneliness newsgroup! > That really hurt.. but, I can almost gaurantee that I (for what it’s > worth..) will not push you away, no matter what you write. After all > the things I’ve read and seen, on the Internet, in Psych texts, etc… > I don’t think anything could totally shock, repel, or push me back any > longer. Your "pretty scary stuff" probably pales in comparison to a > lot of the things I’ve seen!
Thank you for saying that. I try so hard to keep quiet…I don’t think people understand that. And, like I said, I post only about one-tenth of the things I want to. Even I recognize that this isn’t the place for some things. > Also, one final thing: I don’t think you’re worthless! At the very > least, all the support I see you provide on this newsgroup means quite > a bit to a good lot of people. Most people come here only once, ramble > about a problem to clear their head, soak up the replies, then vanish, > never to be seen or heard from again (I’m a bit like that, too, I’m > afraid..). But, you actually take the time to respond to a whole lot > of people, and that definitely has a positive effect on the world, even > if you can’t always see it..
Thank you…and I don’t think you’re like that. I think that sometimes, people find their own problems so overwhelming that they don’t feel they can offer anyone else any encouragement. I know I often feel that way, and so I say nothing.
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Admiral: Celebok <cele…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:39E183B0.3169@earthlink.net… > scylla wrote: > > Truth? I don’t care if people try to help me or not…understand, yes, but > > help, not necessarily. > I know that it’s nice to have people who understand what you’re going > through, but I personally prefer to hear advice on how to solve my > problems. If somebody understands me, that’s great and all, but the > problem still remains. But if someone can help me figure out how to get > rid of the problem, that’s even better. I don’t see why a person would > flat out reject help without even considering it.
Maybe because it’s been tried before…maybe because it seems that any solution is impossible…maybe because they’ve lived in one way for so long that it’s almost comforting in a way, and the idea of change scares them. > > It’s been my experience that people who try to give > > me advice often don’t understand why I say the things I say, or why I can’t > > do what seems like the logical thing to do. There’s something within me > > that keeps me from asking for professional help. > Well, if the people giving you advice don’t understand you, then why not > explain to them what they’re not understanding?
I try…too hard, sometimes. Sometimes, I just feel like I’m hitting my head against a brick wall, and so I give up, realizing that the person will never understand, for whatever reason. I realize that I often > don’t understand what people are going through, but if it’s somebody I > care about, I WANT to understand. If there’s a reason why a person > can’t follow my advice, I want to know what it is so that I can work > around that problem, or find a different solution. Of course, it’s much > better when the person understands you AND can give you advice, because > you can get right to the problem without having to explain yourself. > But in your case, since you say that the people who try to give you > advice don’t understand you, then you’re left with little choice.
You’re right, Celebok. I’m left with few choices. I get tired of having to explain, of having people think I’m messed up, because I think and feel the way I do. There’s really nothing wrong with me. I just got dealt a bad hand, this time around, and my choice is to ante up and try to bluff my way through another fifty or sixty years, or fold.
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Ironic: IronicMn <ironi…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001007205409.21158.00000798@ng-ce1.aol.com… > I agree with Pmela on this one. You ARE of value, you HAVE given a lot, and > you are just in a place where you are seeing all the bad stuff and none of the > good stuff tonight.
Thank you, Ironic. I’m feeling a bit better at the moment, actually. I still don’t think I’ve given as much as I’ve received, but I thank you. > there could be a BILLION reasons why that guy did not write back to you adn > Almost ALL of tehm have nothing to do with you. Who knows where he was at whe > he got that letter adn what was on his mind.
You’re right. He’s alot like me, actually…and maybe he just didn’t know how to respond. For a long time, I was strength for him, and he fed off of the positives I had to give, such as they were. He’s probably not used to my needing his help, since I haven’t for so long. I guess I’m looking at things a little differently, tonight. > I have a professor that I was close to in LAw school adn wvery wee for the apst > two years I have taken thelast letter that hw wrote to me and said i need to > reply but then I fond all sorts of excuses why not to reply. the drafts I > wrote are not long enough for hm, not good enough for him he deserves more, I > didnt edit enough etc. and For TWO years I didnt wrtie to him,. NOT because I > dont like him anymore, but becasue I dont think highly enough of MYSELF! SO > maybe the guy jsut doesnt think highly enough of himself, and maybe, that is > why he didnt write.
That could be partly the truth…he might not know what to say…he might be afraid he’ll say the wrong thing to me, and that thought might keep him from writing. I understand that. I wish he would, though. It wouldn’t matter what he said. It’s just important that I hear from him, right now. > But will you consider this one option out of a billion others that dont blame > you. > NO YOU WONT > Becasue youa re intent on beating yourself up adn eltting it spiral out of > control so taht your reason d’etra is to drive everybdy away from you. and > that when you do it will be like a self fulfilling prophesy.
Well, that’s true, most of the time. But right now, I see what you’re saying, and I think you might be right. It’s not a matter of *wanting* to drive people away, though. It’s a matter of what’s best for them. And I’m not good for him, and i know it, but I’m selfish enough to want him to be a part of my life, even if it’s only through snail mail letters. > Well we are NOT buying what your selling, as Pamela put it. and We are here!!! > and you could be too. > and we Luv you.
But you shouldn’t. All of you…you shouldn’t. I’m glad if you want me here, don’t get me wrong…but I have very little to give. You can buy what I’m saying, or you can not buy it, but the truth is, I ask for way more than I give, and i know it. I try not to be that way, and I give what I can, but it’s been very little, lately. Thank you again, Ironic, for being such a good friend. Angela
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IronicMn <ironi…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20001007212012.21158.00000812@ng-ce1.aol.com… > >It’s just important that I hear from him, right now. > I bet he doesnt KNOW that
Ah…but I feel like he *should*. He’s been where I am, and I helped him through it…or tried to. Maybe I’ll write him again, just in case something happened and he didnt get my letter. > >You can buy what > >I’m saying, or you can not buy it, but the truth is, I ask for way more than > >I give, and i know it. > Obviously we think that whatever you give is valuable enough for us to eschange > for what we give you.
I guess so. Thank you. > IronciMn > Ps. Glad your feeling better tonight
Thank you, again.
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Angela: I agree with Pmela on this one. You ARE of value, you HAVE given a lot, and you are just in a place where you are seeing all the bad stuff and none of the good stuff tonight. there could be a BILLION reasons why that guy did not write back to you adn Almost ALL of tehm have nothing to do with you. Who knows where he was at whe he got that letter adn what was on his mind. I have a professor that I was close to in LAw school adn wvery wee for the apst two years I have taken thelast letter that hw wrote to me and said i need to reply but then I fond all sorts of excuses why not to reply. the drafts I wrote are not long enough for hm, not good enough for him he deserves more, I didnt edit enough etc. and For TWO years I didnt wrtie to him,. NOT because I dont like him anymore, but becasue I dont think highly enough of MYSELF! SO maybe the guy jsut doesnt think highly enough of himself, and maybe, that is why he didnt write. But will you consider this one option out of a billion others that dont blame you. NO YOU WONT Becasue youa re intent on beating yourself up adn eltting it spiral out of control so taht your reason d’etra is to drive everybdy away from you. and that when you do it will be like a self fulfilling prophesy. Well we are NOT buying what your selling, as Pamela put it. and We are here!!! and you could be too. and we Luv you. IronicMn
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No, you’re not dense at all. Sometimes I don’t write that clearly myself — and it does take time and more than a few words to communicate clearly. Human relationships and contact is very complex at times, although the basic fundamentals seem so simple. Until you have a good long talk with your friend, you don’t know what he is thinking, feeling, etc about it all. Harvey In article <8rnbco$r8…@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, eeyor…@mindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Harvey, >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:970903771.695408@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> says… >> >> There is a moment of truth – that you go through with a >> >> relationship – whether it should deepen? and grow into something >> >> more solid, or not at all. >> >> Everyone faces such turning point(s) in their lives — >> >> whether this friendship should deepen into some more… or not? >> >> Life is living on an edge at times – knowing which people should you >> >> grow close to, which ones end up going nowhere? >> >> Sometimes you just have to let it go — whichever path that is that >> >> person’s freewill. >> >Ok, so let me get this straight…you’re saying that this friend, whom >I’ve >> >known for seven years, isn’t close to me? He and I have stuck together >> >through some pretty traumatic stuff…I’d say we were about as close as >two >> >people can get without being romantically involved. So this is a nowhere >> >friendship, in your opinion? >> I don’t know the particulars nor the details, so it is not for me to >> say how good your contact is. I wasn’t saying that yours is a nowhere >> friendship. I don’t know the details or history to know whether it is or >not. >> Any relationship, whether friendship or close romantic/etc is a two way >> affair, where both have to input into it. >Ok…when put that way, I can see what you’re saying. I guess I have to >chalk it up as another friendship I killed. That’s ok, though, because it >was already on that list, a few times. >> >> Forming relationships is hard, making friends isn’t that hard – >> >> but friends come and go, you want something more than that in a >> >> relationship. You want something steady, someone dependable, someone >who >> >> will be there for you. >> >Heh…making friends is harder for some people than others, it seems. >> Of course making good friends is hard. Really good friends are very hard >> to find. It isn’t that hard to make ‘friends’ in the general sense of the >> word, one’s you feel you’re close to… are hard to find. >I haven’t made a real new friend, in real life, of any sort, in a long time. >Thanks for making what you were saying clearer, Harvey. I’m a bit dense, >sometimes.
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scylla wrote: > Truth? I don’t care if people try to help me or not…understand, yes, but > help, not necessarily.
I know that it’s nice to have people who understand what you’re going through, but I personally prefer to hear advice on how to solve my problems. If somebody understands me, that’s great and all, but the problem still remains. But if someone can help me figure out how to get rid of the problem, that’s even better. I don’t see why a person would flat out reject help without even considering it. > It’s been my experience that people who try to give > me advice often don’t understand why I say the things I say, or why I can’t > do what seems like the logical thing to do. There’s something within me > that keeps me from asking for professional help.
Well, if the people giving you advice don’t understand you, then why not explain to them what they’re not understanding? I realize that I often don’t understand what people are going through, but if it’s somebody I care about, I WANT to understand. If there’s a reason why a person can’t follow my advice, I want to know what it is so that I can work around that problem, or find a different solution. Of course, it’s much better when the person understands you AND can give you advice, because you can get right to the problem without having to explain yourself. But in your case, since you say that the people who try to give you advice don’t understand you, then you’re left with little choice. –Adml. Celebok
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Pamela, Unicorn <unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39e0b2b1_3@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com… > Angela.. > One thought.. No one makes us talk to each other.. no one makes us want to > give and receive support from another on this group.. it’s true…even > through all that I’ve had that was not good that has come from this group I > come back because of supportive people like you and other’s that you know > of..
Thank you. It is true, I guess. You can’t control who responds to your posts, but you can control whether or not you continue a conversation with the person. I don’t know why I keep coming here and venting. I guess it’s because some things are easier to talk to a bunch of strangers about than they are to talk to closer friends about. You know? > Problem is.. people are lurking and not reaching as much lately .. I have > seen you give support to many, many people Angela.. and sometimes.. people > just want to know.. they are not alone in loneliness..
Thanks, Pamela. Hey, if I could, I’d just be a lurker too. Not in my nature, though, evidently. > And Angela.. you’ve given me support.. and their were but a few on this > group that even tried to ask, understand or listen to what I was going > though in my life.. you are one of the rare people that gives > unconditionally and yet listens with her heart to others.. you don’t just > take .. many people do.. your not one of them.. kay
Thanks, Pamela. I appreciate your saying that.
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Hi Angela, I am so sorry. That is easily one of the worst pains in the world.. to open up your true feelings to a friend, then to have them turn on you because you revealed a different side to your personality. I’m sorry to read that your felt (and are still feeling..?) this pain. Your post really makes me hurt, personally, too. I must confess that there are certain things I think about, that I have never told to a soul, for fear of what they would do in response. It hurts so much to keep my feelings inside, but it would hurt just as much, I’d think, if I told someone.. they would most likely not understand, and push me away. I’m sorry you’re experiencing somewhat similar pain… I really wish I was the only one who had to go through something as bad as this. However, as someone mentioned, it is possible that your friend has not pushed you away. I exchange e-mails regularly with a few other online cartoonists, and sometimes when it takes them a while to reply, I start to worry "oh no.. I said too much.. it’s all over!" However, eventually they do write back with a kind response, and my life returns to normal (until the next time it happens, that is..). The point I’m trying to make is: a lack of response could possibly mean this person pushed you away, true, but there’s a strong chance that it might not. Um, I think IronicMn already said that, actually… but, just thought I’d give you my take on the same point of view. Ack, I just thought of something: back when I was on this newsgroup a year ago, I revealed some loneliness tales (via e-mail) to a fellow college student here, and she pushed me away. I was pushed away for saying that I was lonely to someone I met on a loneliness newsgroup! That really hurt.. but, I can almost gaurantee that I (for what it’s worth..) will not push you away, no matter what you write. After all the things I’ve read and seen, on the Internet, in Psych texts, etc… I don’t think anything could totally shock, repel, or push me back any longer. Your "pretty scary stuff" probably pales in comparison to a lot of the things I’ve seen! Also, one final thing: I don’t think you’re worthless! At the very least, all the support I see you provide on this newsgroup means quite a bit to a good lot of people. Most people come here only once, ramble about a problem to clear their head, soak up the replies, then vanish, never to be seen or heard from again (I’m a bit like that, too, I’m afraid..). But, you actually take the time to respond to a whole lot of people, and that definitely has a positive effect on the world, even if you can’t always see it.. Ryan — Hey-dee-ho-dee-ho-dee-ho- dee-hi-day-ho-day-hi-aye- ho-dee-dah-aye (Survivor–"Theme Song") I’m glad you like mine too! (Dandy Warhols–"Bohemian Like You") Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/ Before you buy.
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>It’s just important that I hear from him, right now.
I bet he doesnt KNOW that >You can buy what >I’m saying, or you can not buy it, but the truth is, I ask for way more than >I give, and i know it.
Obviously we think that whatever you give is valuable enough for us to eschange for what we give you. IronciMn Ps. Glad your feeling better tonight
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Angela.. One thought.. No one makes us talk to each other.. no one makes us want to give and receive support from another on this group.. it’s true…even through all that I’ve had that was not good that has come from this group I come back because of supportive people like you and other’s that you know of.. Problem is.. people are lurking and not reaching as much lately .. I have seen you give support to many, many people Angela.. and sometimes.. people just want to know.. they are not alone in loneliness.. And Angela.. you’ve given me support.. and their were but a few on this group that even tried to ask, understand or listen to what I was going though in my life.. you are one of the rare people that gives unconditionally and yet listens with her heart to others.. you don’t just take .. many people do.. your not one of them.. kay Pamela "scylla" <eeyor…@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8rohg1$m7r$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… <snip respectfully> – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> But you shouldn’t. All of you…you shouldn’t. I’m glad if you want me > here, don’t get me wrong…but I have very little to give. You can buy what > I’m saying, or you can not buy it, but the truth is, I ask for way more than > I give, and i know it. I try not to be that way, and I give what I can, but > it’s been very little, lately. > Thank you again, Ironic, for being such a good friend. > Angela
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Admiral, Celebok <cele…@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:39DEFFBD.6D14@earthlink.net… > Angela, > You obviously have a serious need to vent a lot of issues and have > people understand and try to help you. Except that it’s probably more > than anyone can handle, as much as people may care about you. But that > doesn’t mean you should give up, because the need is still there. So > this is just my reminder to you, that you have a very good reason to > talk to a counselor or therapist. Your post has made that very clear to > me. Please consider making it a priority.
Truth? I don’t care if people try to help me or not…understand, yes, but help, not necessarily. It’s been my experience that people who try to give me advice often don’t understand why I say the things I say, or why I can’t do what seems like the logical thing to do. There’s something within me that keeps me from asking for professional help. I am giving up, in a sense. Sooner or later, this has to stop, and it looks like it’s going to be sooner. Like today. > {{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}}
Thanks, Admiral. I know you don’t really understand this, not looking at life in quite the same way I do (not by a long shot, actually), but I do appreciate your taking the time to reply to me.
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Hi Angela! Your post brought many unpleasant memories to my mind….indifference, unfulfilled expectations…. I don’t want to be indifferent towards others, and I’m not that easy to push away…if that means anything to you… Partyman
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Hi Partyman. I’m sorry to bring you unpleasant memories. And it does mean something that you’re not easy to push away. I think alot of people here aren’t. Thank you. Partyman <partym…@gmx.net> wrote in message
news:8rnlji$aq2$4@news.cs.tu-berlin.de… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Hi Angela! > Your post brought many unpleasant memories to my mind….indifference, > unfulfilled expectations…. I don’t want to be indifferent towards others, > and I’m not that easy to push away…if that means anything to you… > Partyman
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Harvey, Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:970903771.695408@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> says… > >> There is a moment of truth – that you go through with a > >> relationship – whether it should deepen? and grow into something > >> more solid, or not at all. > >> Everyone faces such turning point(s) in their lives — > >> whether this friendship should deepen into some more… or not? > >> Life is living on an edge at times – knowing which people should you > >> grow close to, which ones end up going nowhere? > >> Sometimes you just have to let it go — whichever path that is that > >> person’s freewill. > >Ok, so let me get this straight…you’re saying that this friend, whom I’ve > >known for seven years, isn’t close to me? He and I have stuck together > >through some pretty traumatic stuff…I’d say we were about as close as two > >people can get without being romantically involved. So this is a nowhere > >friendship, in your opinion? > I don’t know the particulars nor the details, so it is not for me to > say how good your contact is. I wasn’t saying that yours is a nowhere > friendship. I don’t know the details or history to know whether it is or not. > Any relationship, whether friendship or close romantic/etc is a two way > affair, where both have to input into it.
Ok…when put that way, I can see what you’re saying. I guess I have to chalk it up as another friendship I killed. That’s ok, though, because it was already on that list, a few times. > >> Forming relationships is hard, making friends isn’t that hard – > >> but friends come and go, you want something more than that in a > >> relationship. You want something steady, someone dependable, someone who > >> will be there for you. > >Heh…making friends is harder for some people than others, it seems. > Of course making good friends is hard. Really good friends are very hard > to find. It isn’t that hard to make ‘friends’ in the general sense of the > word, one’s you feel you’re close to… are hard to find.
I haven’t made a real new friend, in real life, of any sort, in a long time. Thanks for making what you were saying clearer, Harvey. I’m a bit dense, sometimes.
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scylla wrote: > …I can lose friends > who’ve known me forever, just from one letter that cried for understanding > and support. > I stay here so that I can get stuff out of my head. I know I crave for > someone to hear me, to understand, and there are people here who do. At the > same time, though, I know that i’m needy and whiny. I know I shouldn’t be > here. I know I should just shut up and go my way and let people live their > lives. I know I should just give up…I’ve been given every indication that > that is the case. Yet, I insist on hanging on, for some stupid reason, like > a leech.
Angela, You obviously have a serious need to vent a lot of issues and have people understand and try to help you. Except that it’s probably more than anyone can handle, as much as people may care about you. But that doesn’t mean you should give up, because the need is still there. So this is just my reminder to you, that you have a very good reason to talk to a counselor or therapist. Your post has made that very clear to me. Please consider making it a priority. {{{{{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}}}} –Adml. Celebok
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There is a moment of truth – that you go through with a relationship – whether it should deepen? and grow into something more solid, or not at all. Everyone faces such turning point(s) in their lives — whether this friendship should deepen into some more… or not? Life is living on an edge at times – knowing which people should you grow close to, which ones end up going nowhere? Sometimes you just have to let it go — whichever path that is that person’s freewill. Even normal people have hang ups, screwups in their life, they live with – and what is a normal person anyway… Is there a normal person without problems or hang ups — no, I don’t think so. When you want to be with someone – you accept that person as they are — warts and all, problems and all… the whole package. Some people will accept you as you are – you shouldn’t treat them as trash though, no one wants to be treated that way. People want respect, especially your friends. Strangers can give you crap – you kinda expect that from someone you don’t know, but not from a good friend. Forming relationships is hard, making friends isn’t that hard – but friends come and go, you want something more than that in a relationship. You want something steady, someone dependable, someone who will be there for you. Of course, we all need someone to talk to, someone to really talk to, it helps. Harvey In article <8rm245$gb…@slb1.atl.mindspring.net>, eeyor…@mindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I just feel the need to talk and talk and talk tonight, and kind of let out >alot of stuff that’s been bothering me. Some of it is the same old stuff >that you’ve all heard from me before, and some of it is all new stuff that’s >not really alot of fun. So, why post it here? I don’t know. I should know >better, but it seems I don’t, and so I’m going to post it here anyway. >(BTW…this has very little to do with loneliness, I think) >This is total stream of consciousness type stuff, so if it bothers you to >read that type of writing, you’d better quit here and thanks for reading >this far. >I’ve made some awful mistakes in my life. I’ve pushed people away without >really meaning to, until I can’t get them back anymore. My own shyness has >caused me to push other people away, though I really want them in my life. >But that’s not what this is about. It’s about a good friend of mine, who I >lost, and found, and seem to have lost again. >See…this friend and I…well, some of you already know this story. Let’s >just say that this friend, whom I’ve known since I was but a girl of 20, has >been with me through alot. I’ve been with him through alot, too, and for >various reasons we parted ways. I still sent him a card every birthday and >every Christmas, and last Christmas he wrote back…then nothing. Then my >birthday came, and he sent me a card, and we began writing back and forth, >sort of erratically, but steadily nonetheless. >Until the last letter I sent. As you can probably tell, if you know me at >all and know what I’ve been like recently, it was less than cheery. I >confided a bunch of stuff to him, that I haven’t told anyone else, and I >mean ANYONE else. It was some pretty scary stuff for me to write, and I’m >sure it was frightening to read, if he cares about me at all. Since I wrote >that letter, I’ve heard nothing from him. I shared too much, I guess, as >usual, and pushed him away. >So, when I tell you that I’m useless, that I push people away, that I"m not >good for anybody to be around, believe me, please…I can lose friends >who’ve known me forever, just from one letter that cried for understanding >and support. >I stay here so that I can get stuff out of my head. I know I crave for >someone to hear me, to understand, and there are people here who do. At the >same time, though, I know that i’m needy and whiny. I know I shouldn’t be >here. I know I should just shut up and go my way and let people live their >lives. I know I should just give up…I’ve been given every indication that >that is the case. Yet, I insist on hanging on, for some stupid reason, like >a leech. >And maybe, Just maybe, I keep posting here so that I can push all of you >away, too, so I can tell myself that I can leave this existence with a clear >conscience, without anyone caring. I’ve already got a healthy start on that >one. The line of people who are indifferent to me, here and elsewhere, >grows with every day. I make enemies easily, which is a good thing, because >I think that people who care about me are making a colossal mistake. >– >I was just wondering if you’d come along >Hold up my head when my head won’t hold on >I’ll do the same if the same’s what you want >If not I’ll go >I’ll go alone >Dave Matthews–"The Stone"
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mmm.. twas those that speak these words to you that just spoke to me.. and.. we’re going private to a safe place.. cause.. I got things to say that don’t need to be broadcast on this group.. for either of us.. love you.. kay.. and.. No.. I’m not buying what your selling.. cause I care to much.. and I know you wouldn’t hurt a mouse.. even if it ran across the classroom.. kay.. Pamela "scylla" <eeyor…@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8rm6au$to9$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Unicorn <unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com> wrote in message > news:39de9946_4@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com… > > I can tell you once.. and I can tell you twice.. and I can tell you until > > the world stops spinning and all of the earth is overcome with fire and > > retribution.. > > No matter what you tell me of yesterday.. your not gonna loose me today.. > > I’m bound to you as a friend.. > Pamela, there’s no reason for you to take time to reply to me. You give me > way too much of your time. > > However.. I can tell you of only my experience.. when I have spilled.. and > > spilled all my demons that are inside of me.. and in this .. when I do > it.. > > it’s an all at once .. much like you.. we are very similar in personality > > Angela.. I know this.. but I am just older and my life changed me > > differently.. born of my own choices made.. > No…in this, we are not alike. It doesn’t go away, not anymore. Besides, > I can never spill all of my demons, as you call them, anywhere. > > Those that love me.. and are really friends.. told me.. they got pissed > > cause I took so long to tell them of what was happening to me.. or what > had > > happened.. and they were not pissed at me.. twas themselves for not being > > their when I needed help.. and yet.. angry at me cause I didn’t cry or > shout > > very loud during all the bad stuff.. born of a lifetime of tolerance of > > everyone else blaming me for their own shortcomings.. Kay > Heh…in this we are opposite. I’ve yelled, screamed, cried for help > irl…no one hears, no one cares. No one sees…they all think what they > want to think, regardless of what’s right in front of them. True, some of > this is past, and some of it’s present…people just want to believe that > everyone is happy and carefree, even when they’re not. > > I can guarantee you.. I won’t walk away.. for you are a friend to me.. and > > it’s bilateral this friendship.. even if it’s born of the net.. you have > > helped me.. more than you can understand in my own reality.. simply by > > accepting me.. and letting me be.. just who I am.. nothing more.. nothing > > less.. but me.. > It’s easy for me to accept you as you are. You should be asking me, though, > "ANgela, what have you done for me lately?" Nothing…I’ve done nothing for > anybody. For months…some people might even say, for years, or forever… > I shouldn’t be able to live off of people’s good natures forever.
Response:
In article <8rmbv8$ab…@slb6.atl.mindspring.net>, eeyor…@mindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Harvey, >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:970894037.553731@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> There is a moment of truth – that you go through with a >> relationship – whether it should deepen? and grow into something >> more solid, or not at all. >> Everyone faces such turning point(s) in their lives — >> whether this friendship should deepen into some more… or not? >> Life is living on an edge at times – knowing which people should you >> grow close to, which ones end up going nowhere? >> Sometimes you just have to let it go — whichever path that is that >> person’s freewill. >Ok, so let me get this straight…you’re saying that this friend, whom I’ve >known for seven years, isn’t close to me? He and I have stuck together >through some pretty traumatic stuff…I’d say we were about as close as two >people can get without being romantically involved. So this is a nowhere >friendship, in your opinion?
I don’t know the particulars nor the details, so it is not for me to say how good your contact is. I wasn’t saying that yours is a nowhere friendship. I don’t know the details or history to know whether it is or not. Any relationship, whether friendship or close romantic/etc is a two way affair, where both have to input into it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->> Even normal people have hang ups, screwups in their life, they live >> with – and what is a normal person anyway… Is there a normal person >> without problems or hang ups — no, I don’t think so. >> When you want to be with someone – you accept that person as they are — >> warts and all, problems and all… the whole package. >> Some people will accept you as you are – you shouldn’t treat them as trash >> though, no one wants to be treated that way. People want respect, >> especially your friends. >> Strangers can give you crap – you kinda expect that from someone you don’t >> know, but not from a good friend. >Exactly. which is why I posted about it…it hurts. >> Forming relationships is hard, making friends isn’t that hard – >> but friends come and go, you want something more than that in a >> relationship. You want something steady, someone dependable, someone who >> will be there for you. >Heh…making friends is harder for some people than others, it seems.
Of course making good friends is hard. Really good friends are very hard to find. It isn’t that hard to make ‘friends’ in the general sense of the word, one’s you feel you’re close to… are hard to find. >> Of course, we all need someone to talk to, someone to really talk to, >> it helps. >Yeah, until we realize that we regret everything we say. >Thanks for your response, Harvey.
If you have good friends – it doesn’t matter what you say at all. A good friend will understand. Harvey
Response:
Harvey, Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:970894037.553731@Chaos.es.co.nz… > There is a moment of truth – that you go through with a > relationship – whether it should deepen? and grow into something > more solid, or not at all. > Everyone faces such turning point(s) in their lives — > whether this friendship should deepen into some more… or not? > Life is living on an edge at times – knowing which people should you > grow close to, which ones end up going nowhere? > Sometimes you just have to let it go — whichever path that is that > person’s freewill.
Ok, so let me get this straight…you’re saying that this friend, whom I’ve known for seven years, isn’t close to me? He and I have stuck together through some pretty traumatic stuff…I’d say we were about as close as two people can get without being romantically involved. So this is a nowhere friendship, in your opinion? > Even normal people have hang ups, screwups in their life, they live > with – and what is a normal person anyway… Is there a normal person > without problems or hang ups — no, I don’t think so. > When you want to be with someone – you accept that person as they are — > warts and all, problems and all… the whole package. > Some people will accept you as you are – you shouldn’t treat them as trash > though, no one wants to be treated that way. People want respect, > especially your friends. > Strangers can give you crap – you kinda expect that from someone you don’t > know, but not from a good friend.
Exactly. which is why I posted about it…it hurts. > Forming relationships is hard, making friends isn’t that hard – > but friends come and go, you want something more than that in a > relationship. You want something steady, someone dependable, someone who > will be there for you.
Heh…making friends is harder for some people than others, it seems. > Of course, we all need someone to talk to, someone to really talk to, > it helps.
Yeah, until we realize that we regret everything we say. Thanks for your response, Harvey.
Response:
I can tell you once.. and I can tell you twice.. and I can tell you until the world stops spinning and all of the earth is overcome with fire and retribution.. No matter what you tell me of yesterday.. your not gonna loose me today.. I’m bound to you as a friend.. However.. I can tell you of only my experience.. when I have spilled.. and spilled all my demons that are inside of me.. and in this .. when I do it.. it’s an all at once .. much like you.. we are very similar in personality Angela.. I know this.. but I am just older and my life changed me differently.. born of my own choices made.. Those that love me.. and are really friends.. told me.. they got pissed cause I took so long to tell them of what was happening to me.. or what had happened.. and they were not pissed at me.. twas themselves for not being their when I needed help.. and yet.. angry at me cause I didn’t cry or shout very loud during all the bad stuff.. born of a lifetime of tolerance of everyone else blaming me for their own shortcomings.. Kay I can guarantee you.. I won’t walk away.. for you are a friend to me.. and it’s bilateral this friendship.. even if it’s born of the net.. you have helped me.. more than you can understand in my own reality.. simply by accepting me.. and letting me be.. just who I am.. nothing more.. nothing less.. but me.. Pamela "scylla" <eeyor…@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8rm245$gbs$1@slb1.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I just feel the need to talk and talk and talk tonight, and kind of let out > alot of stuff that’s been bothering me. Some of it is the same old stuff > that you’ve all heard from me before, and some of it is all new stuff that’s > not really alot of fun. So, why post it here? I don’t know. I should know > better, but it seems I don’t, and so I’m going to post it here anyway. > (BTW…this has very little to do with loneliness, I think) > This is total stream of consciousness type stuff, so if it bothers you to > read that type of writing, you’d better quit here and thanks for reading > this far. > I’ve made some awful mistakes in my life. I’ve pushed people away without > really meaning to, until I can’t get them back anymore. My own shyness has > caused me to push other people away, though I really want them in my life. > But that’s not what this is about. It’s about a good friend of mine, who I > lost, and found, and seem to have lost again. > See…this friend and I…well, some of you already know this story. Let’s > just say that this friend, whom I’ve known since I was but a girl of 20, has > been with me through alot. I’ve been with him through alot, too, and for > various reasons we parted ways. I still sent him a card every birthday and > every Christmas, and last Christmas he wrote back…then nothing. Then my > birthday came, and he sent me a card, and we began writing back and forth, > sort of erratically, but steadily nonetheless. > Until the last letter I sent. As you can probably tell, if you know me at > all and know what I’ve been like recently, it was less than cheery. I > confided a bunch of stuff to him, that I haven’t told anyone else, and I > mean ANYONE else. It was some pretty scary stuff for me to write, and I’m > sure it was frightening to read, if he cares about me at all. Since I wrote > that letter, I’ve heard nothing from him. I shared too much, I guess, as > usual, and pushed him away. > So, when I tell you that I’m useless, that I push people away, that I"m not > good for anybody to be around, believe me, please…I can lose friends > who’ve known me forever, just from one letter that cried for understanding > and support. > I stay here so that I can get stuff out of my head. I know I crave for > someone to hear me, to understand, and there are people here who do. At the > same time, though, I know that i’m needy and whiny. I know I shouldn’t be > here. I know I should just shut up and go my way and let people live their > lives. I know I should just give up…I’ve been given every indication that > that is the case. Yet, I insist on hanging on, for some stupid reason, like > a leech. > And maybe, Just maybe, I keep posting here so that I can push all of you > away, too, so I can tell myself that I can leave this existence with a clear > conscience, without anyone caring. I’ve already got a healthy start on that > one. The line of people who are indifferent to me, here and elsewhere, > grows with every day. I make enemies easily, which is a good thing, because > I think that people who care about me are making a colossal mistake. > — > I was just wondering if you’d come along > Hold up my head when my head won’t hold on > I’ll do the same if the same’s what you want > If not I’ll go > I’ll go alone > Dave Matthews–"The Stone"
Response:
Unicorn <unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:39de9946_4@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com… > I can tell you once.. and I can tell you twice.. and I can tell you until > the world stops spinning and all of the earth is overcome with fire and > retribution.. > No matter what you tell me of yesterday.. your not gonna loose me today.. > I’m bound to you as a friend..
Pamela, there’s no reason for you to take time to reply to me. You give me way too much of your time. > However.. I can tell you of only my experience.. when I have spilled.. and > spilled all my demons that are inside of me.. and in this .. when I do it.. > it’s an all at once .. much like you.. we are very similar in personality > Angela.. I know this.. but I am just older and my life changed me > differently.. born of my own choices made..
No…in this, we are not alike. It doesn’t go away, not anymore. Besides, I can never spill all of my demons, as you call them, anywhere. > Those that love me.. and are really friends.. told me.. they got pissed > cause I took so long to tell them of what was happening to me.. or what had > happened.. and they were not pissed at me.. twas themselves for not being > their when I needed help.. and yet.. angry at me cause I didn’t cry or shout > very loud during all the bad stuff.. born of a lifetime of tolerance of > everyone else blaming me for their own shortcomings.. Kay
Heh…in this we are opposite. I’ve yelled, screamed, cried for help irl…no one hears, no one cares. No one sees…they all think what they want to think, regardless of what’s right in front of them. True, some of this is past, and some of it’s present…people just want to believe that everyone is happy and carefree, even when they’re not. > I can guarantee you.. I won’t walk away.. for you are a friend to me.. and > it’s bilateral this friendship.. even if it’s born of the net.. you have > helped me.. more than you can understand in my own reality.. simply by > accepting me.. and letting me be.. just who I am.. nothing more.. nothing > less.. but me..
It’s easy for me to accept you as you are. You should be asking me, though, "ANgela, what have you done for me lately?" Nothing…I’ve done nothing for anybody. For months…some people might even say, for years, or forever… I shouldn’t be able to live off of people’s good natures forever.
Response:
I just feel the need to talk and talk and talk tonight, and kind of let out alot of stuff that’s been bothering me. Some of it is the same old stuff that you’ve all heard from me before, and some of it is all new stuff that’s not really alot of fun. So, why post it here? I don’t know. I should know better, but it seems I don’t, and so I’m going to post it here anyway. (BTW…this has very little to do with loneliness, I think) This is total stream of consciousness type stuff, so if it bothers you to read that type of writing, you’d better quit here and thanks for reading this far. I’ve made some awful mistakes in my life. I’ve pushed people away without really meaning to, until I can’t get them back anymore. My own shyness has caused me to push other people away, though I really want them in my life. But that’s not what this is about. It’s about a good friend of mine, who I lost, and found, and seem to have lost again. See…this friend and I…well, some of you already know this story. Let’s just say that this friend, whom I’ve known since I was but a girl of 20, has been with me through alot. I’ve been with him through alot, too, and for various reasons we parted ways. I still sent him a card every birthday and every Christmas, and last Christmas he wrote back…then nothing. Then my birthday came, and he sent me a card, and we began writing back and forth, sort of erratically, but steadily nonetheless. Until the last letter I sent. As you can probably tell, if you know me at all and know what I’ve been like recently, it was less than cheery. I confided a bunch of stuff to him, that I haven’t told anyone else, and I mean ANYONE else. It was some pretty scary stuff for me to write, and I’m sure it was frightening to read, if he cares about me at all. Since I wrote that letter, I’ve heard nothing from him. I shared too much, I guess, as usual, and pushed him away. So, when I tell you that I’m useless, that I push people away, that I"m not good for anybody to be around, believe me, please…I can lose friends who’ve known me forever, just from one letter that cried for understanding and support. I stay here so that I can get stuff out of my head. I know I crave for someone to hear me, to understand, and there are people here who do. At the same time, though, I know that i’m needy and whiny. I know I shouldn’t be here. I know I should just shut up and go my way and let people live their lives. I know I should just give up…I’ve been given every indication that that is the case. Yet, I insist on hanging on, for some stupid reason, like a leech. And maybe, Just maybe, I keep posting here so that I can push all of you away, too, so I can tell myself that I can leave this existence with a clear conscience, without anyone caring. I’ve already got a healthy start on that one. The line of people who are indifferent to me, here and elsewhere, grows with every day. I make enemies easily, which is a good thing, because I think that people who care about me are making a colossal mistake. — I was just wondering if you’d come along Hold up my head when my head won’t hold on I’ll do the same if the same’s what you want If not I’ll go I’ll go alone Dave Matthews–"The Stone"
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Question:
The correct translation is the "book of dead names". Karubin
i do hope you will be getting the same abuseive e-mails that i have been getting for re-posting the "whole" thing. Zardos.
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at least it wasnt 100
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Use deja for large post reading. It displays segment one of 63 and gives you the option of looking at the other 62 segments. But if you respond, it downloads the whole thing. ralphv Before you buy.
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The correct translation is the "book of dead names". Karubin
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 240 BC THE PAPYRUS OF ANI (THE EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD) Translated by E.A. Wallis Budge HYMN TO OSIRIS "Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy. Thou art the governor of Tattu (Busiris), and also the mighty one in Sekhem (Letopolis). Thou art the Lord to whom praises are ascribed in the nome of Ati, thou art the Prince of divine food in Anu. Thou art the Lord who is commemorated in Maati, the Hidden Soul, the Lord of Qerrt (Elephantine), the Ruler supreme in White Wall (Memphis). Thou art the Soul of Ra, his own body, and hast thy place of rest in Henensu (Herakleopolis). Thou art the beneficent one, and art praised in Nart. Thou makest thy soul to be raised up. Thou art the Lord of the Great House in Khemenu (Hermopolis). Thou art the mighty one of victories in Shas-hetep, the Lord of eternity, the Governor of Abydos. The path of his throne is in Ta-tcheser (a part of Abydos). Thy name is established in the mouths of men. Thou art the substance of Two Lands (Egypt). Thou art Tem, the feeder of Kau (Doubles), the Governor of the Companies of the gods. Thou art the beneficent Spirit among the spirits. The god of the Celestial Ocean (Nu) draweth from thee his waters. Thou sendest forth the north wind at eventide, and breath from thy nostrils to the satisfaction of thy heart. Thy heart reneweth its youth, thou producest the…. The stars in the celestial heights are obedient unto thee, and the great doors of the sky open themselves before thee. Thou art he to whom praises are ascribed in the southern heaven, and thanks are given for thee in the northern heaven. The imperishable stars are under thy supervision, and the stars which never set are thy thrones. Offerings appear before thee at the decree of Keb. The Companies of the Gods praise thee, and the gods of the Tuat (Other World) smell the earth in paying homage to thee. The uttermost parts of the earth bow before thee, and the limits of the skies entreat thee with supplications when they see thee. The holy ones are overcome before thee, and all Egypt offereth thanksgiving unto thee when it meeteth Thy Majesty. Thou art a shining Spirit-Body, the governor of Spirit-Bodies; permanent is thy rank, established is thy rule. Thou art the well-doing Sekhem (Power) of the Company of the Gods, gracious is thy face, and beloved by him that seeth it. Thy fear is set in all the lands by reason of thy perfect love, and they cry out to thy name making it the first of names, and all people make offerings to thee. Thou art the lord who art commemorated in heaven and upon earth. Many are the cries which are made to thee at the Uak festival, and with one heart and voice Egypt raiseth cries of joy to thee. "Thou art the Great Chief, the first among thy brethren, the Prince of the Company of the Gods, the stablisher of Right and Truth throughout the World, the Son who was set on the great throne of his father Keb. Thou art the beloved of thy mother Nut, the mighty one of valour, who overthrew the Sebau-fiend. Thou didst stand up and smite thine enemy, and set thy fear in thine adversary. Thou dost bring the boundaries of the mountains. Thy heart is fixed, thy legs are set firm. Thou art the heir of Keb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands (Egypt). He (Keb) hath seen his splendours, he hath decreed for him the guidance of the world by thy hand as long as times endure. Thou hast made this earth with thy hand, and the waters, and the winds, and the vegetation, and all the cattle, and all the feathered fowl, and all the fish, and all the creeping things, and all the wild animals therof. The desert is the lawful possession of the son of Nut. The Two Lands (Egypt) are content to crown thee upon the throne of thy father, like Ra. "Thou rollest up into the horizon, thou hast set light over the darkness, thou sendest forth air from thy plumes, and thou floodest the Two Lands like the Disk at daybreak. Thy crown penetrateth the height of heaven, thou art the companion of the stars, and the guide of every god. Thou art beneficent in decree and speech, the favoured one of the Great Company of the Gods, and the beloved of the Little Company of the Gods. His sister [Isis] hath protected him, and hath repulsed the fiends, and turned aside calamities (of evil). She uttered the spell with the magical power of her mouth. Her tongue was perfect, and it never halted at a word. Beneficent in command and word was Isis, the woman of magical spells, the advocate of her brother. She sought him untiringly, she wandered round and round about this earth in sorrow, and she alighted not without finding him. She made light with her feathers, she created air with her wings, and she uttered the death wail for her brother. She raised up the inactive members of whose heart was still, she drew from him his essence, she made an heir, she reared the child in loneliness, and the place where he was not known, and he grew in strength and stature, and his hand was mighty in the House of Keb. The Company of the Gods rejoiced, rejoiced, at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, whose heart was firm, the triumphant, the son of Isis, the heir of Osiris." REFERENCES REFERENCES Following is a list of frequently-mentioned geographical locations, and their commonly-known names: Abtu Abydos Abu Elephantine Anu Heliopolis Bast Bubastis Hensu Herakleopolis Het-ka-Ptah Memphis Khemenu Hermopolis Per-Menu Panopolis Qerrt Elephantine Sau Sais Sekhem Letopolis Suat Asyut Tetu Busiris Two Lands Upper and Lower Egypt Unu Hermopolis A HYMN OF PRAISE TO RA WHEN HE RISETH IN THE EASTERN PART OF HEAVEN: Behold, the Osiris Ani, the scribe of the holy offerings of all the gods, saith: Homage to thee, O thou who hast come as Khepera, Khepera the creator of the gods, Thou art seated on thy throne, thou risest up in the sky, illumining thy mother [Nut], thou art seated on thy throne as the king of the gods. [Thy] mother Nut stretcheth out her hands, and performeth an act of homage to thee. The domain of Manu receiveth thee with satisfaction. The goddess Maat embraceth thee at the two seasons of the day. May Ra give glory, and power, and thruth-speaking, and the appearance as a living soul so that he may gaze upon Heru-khuti, to the KA of the Osiris the Scribe Ani, who speaketh truth before Osiris, and who saith: Hail, O all ye gods of the House of the Soul, who weigh heaven and earth in a balance, and who give celestial food [to the dead]. Hail, Tatun, [who art] One, thou creator of mortals [and] of the Companies of the Gods of the South and of the North, of the West and of the East, ascribe ye praise to Ra, the lord of heaven, the KING, Life, Strength, and Health, the maker of the gods. Give ye thanks unto him in his beneficent form which is enthroned in the Atett Boat; beings celestial praise thee, beings terrestial praise thee. Thoth and the goddess Maat mark out thy course for thee day by day and every day. Thine enemy the Serpent hath been given over to the fire. The Serpent-fiend Sebau hath fallen headlong, his forelegs are bound in chains, and his hind legs hath Ra carried away from him. The Sons of Revolt shall never more rise up. The House of the Aged One keepeth festival, and the voices of those who make merry are in the Great Place. The gods rejoice when they see Ra crowned upon his throne, and when his beams flood the world with light. The majesty of this holy god setteth out on his journey, and he goeth onwards until he reacheth the land of Manu; the earth becometh light at his birth each day; he proceedeth until he reacheth the place where he was yesterday. O be thou at peace with me. Let me gaze upon thy beauties. Let me journey above the earth. Let me smite the Ass. Let me slit asunder the Serpent-fiend Sebau. Let me destroy Aepep at the moment of his greatest power. Let me behold the Abtu Fish at his season, and the Ant Fish with the Ant Boat as it piloteth it in its lake. Let me behold Horus when he is in charge of the rudder [of the Boat of Ra], with Thoth and the goddess Maat on each side of him. Let me lay hold of the tow-rope of the Sektet Boat, and the rope at the stern of the Matett Boat. Let Ra grant to me a view of the Disk (the Sun), and a sight of Ah (the Moon) unfailingly each day. Let my Ba-soul come forth to walk about hither and thither and whithersoever it pleaseth. Let my name be called out, let it be found inscribed on the tablet which recordeth the names of those who are to receive offerings. Let meals from the sepulchral offerings be given to me in the presence [of Osiris], as to those who are in the following of Horus. Let there be prepared for me a seat in the Boat of the Sun on the day wheron the god saileth. Let me be received in the presence of Osiris in the Land of Truth-speaking- the Ka of Osiris Ani. APPENDIX APPENDIX (From the Papyrus of Nekht, Brit. Mus. No. 10471, Sheet 21) NEKHT, THE CAPTAIN OF SOLDIERS, THE ROYAL SCRIBE, SINGETH A
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You just so pissed me off with 99 pages of this shit that I’m requesting your server Yank your account and access to this news group now. I can’t believe you would do this to so many people who give a shit about you, damn you for doing that to this group. why don’t you go back to your – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – 240 BC W THE PAPYRUS OF ANI (THE EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD) Translated by E.A. Wallis Budge
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240 BC THE PAPYRUS OF ANI (THE EGYPTIAN BOOK OF THE DEAD) Translated by E.A. Wallis Budge HYMN TO OSIRIS "Homage to thee, Osiris, Lord of eternity, King of the Gods, whose names are manifold, whose forms are holy, thou being of hidden form in the temples, whose Ka is holy. Thou art the governor of Tattu (Busiris), and also the mighty one in Sekhem (Letopolis). Thou art the Lord to whom praises are ascribed in the nome of Ati, thou art the Prince of divine food in Anu. Thou art the Lord who is commemorated in Maati, the Hidden Soul, the Lord of Qerrt (Elephantine), the Ruler supreme in White Wall (Memphis). Thou art the Soul of Ra, his own body, and hast thy place of rest in Henensu (Herakleopolis). Thou art the beneficent one, and art praised in Nart. Thou makest thy soul to be raised up. Thou art the Lord of the Great House in Khemenu (Hermopolis). Thou art the mighty one of victories in Shas-hetep, the Lord of eternity, the Governor of Abydos. The path of his throne is in Ta-tcheser (a part of Abydos). Thy name is established in the mouths of men. Thou art the substance of Two Lands (Egypt). Thou art Tem, the feeder of Kau (Doubles), the Governor of the Companies of the gods. Thou art the beneficent Spirit among the spirits. The god of the Celestial Ocean (Nu) draweth from thee his waters. Thou sendest forth the north wind at eventide, and breath from thy nostrils to the satisfaction of thy heart. Thy heart reneweth its youth, thou producest the…. The stars in the celestial heights are obedient unto thee, and the great doors of the sky open themselves before thee. Thou art he to whom praises are ascribed in the southern heaven, and thanks are given for thee in the northern heaven. The imperishable stars are under thy supervision, and the stars which never set are thy thrones. Offerings appear before thee at the decree of Keb. The Companies of the Gods praise thee, and the gods of the Tuat (Other World) smell the earth in paying homage to thee. The uttermost parts of the earth bow before thee, and the limits of the skies entreat thee with supplications when they see thee. The holy ones are overcome before thee, and all Egypt offereth thanksgiving unto thee when it meeteth Thy Majesty. Thou art a shining Spirit-Body, the governor of Spirit-Bodies; permanent is thy rank, established is thy rule. Thou art the well-doing Sekhem (Power) of the Company of the Gods, gracious is thy face, and beloved by him that seeth it. Thy fear is set in all the lands by reason of thy perfect love, and they cry out to thy name making it the first of names, and all people make offerings to thee. Thou art the lord who art commemorated in heaven and upon earth. Many are the cries which are made to thee at the Uak festival, and with one heart and voice Egypt raiseth cries of joy to thee. "Thou art the Great Chief, the first among thy brethren, the Prince of the Company of the Gods, the stablisher of Right and Truth throughout the World, the Son who was set on the great throne of his father Keb. Thou art the beloved of thy mother Nut, the mighty one of valour, who overthrew the Sebau-fiend. Thou didst stand up and smite thine enemy, and set thy fear in thine adversary. Thou dost bring the boundaries of the mountains. Thy heart is fixed, thy legs are set firm. Thou art the heir of Keb and of the sovereignty of the Two Lands (Egypt). He (Keb) hath seen his splendours, he hath decreed for him the guidance of the world by thy hand as long as times endure. Thou hast made this earth with thy hand, and the waters, and the winds, and the vegetation, and all the cattle, and all the feathered fowl, and all the fish, and all the creeping things, and all the wild animals therof. The desert is the lawful possession of the son of Nut. The Two Lands (Egypt) are content to crown thee upon the throne of thy father, like Ra. "Thou rollest up into the horizon, thou hast set light over the darkness, thou sendest forth air from thy plumes, and thou floodest the Two Lands like the Disk at daybreak. Thy crown penetrateth the height of heaven, thou art the companion of the stars, and the guide of every god. Thou art beneficent in decree and speech, the favoured one of the Great Company of the Gods, and the beloved of the Little Company of the Gods. His sister [Isis] hath protected him, and hath repulsed the fiends, and turned aside calamities (of evil). She uttered the spell with the magical power of her mouth. Her tongue was perfect, and it never halted at a word. Beneficent in command and word was Isis, the woman of magical spells, the advocate of her brother. She sought him untiringly, she wandered round and round about this earth in sorrow, and she alighted not without finding him. She made light with her feathers, she created air with her wings, and she uttered the death wail for her brother. She raised up the inactive members of whose heart was still, she drew from him his essence, she made an heir, she reared the child in loneliness, and the place where he was not known, and he grew in strength and stature, and his hand was mighty in the House of Keb. The Company of the Gods rejoiced, rejoiced, at the coming of Horus, the son of Osiris, whose heart was firm, the triumphant, the son of Isis, the heir of Osiris." REFERENCES REFERENCES Following is a list of frequently-mentioned geographical locations, and their commonly-known names: Abtu Abydos Abu Elephantine Anu Heliopolis Bast Bubastis Hensu Herakleopolis Het-ka-Ptah Memphis Khemenu Hermopolis Per-Menu Panopolis Qerrt Elephantine Sau Sais Sekhem Letopolis Suat Asyut Tetu Busiris Two Lands Upper and Lower Egypt Unu Hermopolis A HYMN OF PRAISE TO RA WHEN HE RISETH IN THE EASTERN PART OF HEAVEN: Behold, the Osiris Ani, the scribe of the holy offerings of all the gods, saith: Homage to thee, O thou who hast come as Khepera, Khepera the creator of the gods, Thou art seated on thy throne, thou risest up in the sky, illumining thy mother [Nut], thou art seated on thy throne as the king of the gods. [Thy] mother Nut stretcheth out her hands, and performeth an act of homage to thee. The domain of Manu receiveth thee with satisfaction. The goddess Maat embraceth thee at the two seasons of the day. May Ra give glory, and power, and thruth-speaking, and the appearance as a living soul so that he may gaze upon Heru-khuti, to the KA of the Osiris the Scribe Ani, who speaketh truth before Osiris, and who saith: Hail, O all ye gods of the House of the Soul, who weigh heaven and earth in a balance, and who give celestial food [to the dead]. Hail, Tatun, [who art] One, thou creator of mortals [and] of the Companies of the Gods of the South and of the North, of the West and of the East, ascribe ye praise to Ra, the lord of heaven, the KING, Life, Strength, and Health, the maker of the gods. Give ye thanks unto him in his beneficent form which is enthroned in the Atett Boat; beings celestial praise thee, beings terrestial praise thee. Thoth and the goddess Maat mark out thy course for thee day by day and every day. Thine enemy the Serpent hath been given over to the fire. The Serpent-fiend Sebau hath fallen headlong, his forelegs are bound in chains, and his hind legs hath Ra carried away from him. The Sons of Revolt shall never more rise up. The House of the Aged One keepeth festival, and the voices of those who make merry are in the Great Place. The gods rejoice when they see Ra crowned upon his throne, and when his beams flood the world with light. The majesty of this holy god setteth out on his journey, and he goeth onwards until he reacheth the land of Manu; the earth becometh light at his birth each day; he proceedeth until he reacheth the place where he was yesterday. O be thou at peace with me. Let me gaze upon thy beauties. Let me journey above the earth. Let me smite the Ass. Let me slit asunder the Serpent-fiend Sebau. Let me destroy Aepep at the moment of his greatest power. Let me behold the Abtu Fish at his season, and the Ant Fish with the Ant Boat as it piloteth it in its lake. Let me behold Horus when he is in charge of the rudder [of the Boat of Ra], with Thoth and the goddess Maat on each side of him. Let me lay hold of the tow-rope of the Sektet Boat, and the rope at the stern of the Matett Boat. Let Ra grant to me a view of the Disk (the Sun), and a sight of Ah (the Moon) unfailingly each day. Let my Ba-soul come forth to walk about hither and thither and whithersoever it pleaseth. Let my name be called out, let it be found inscribed on the tablet which recordeth the names of those who are to receive offerings. Let meals from the sepulchral offerings be given to me in the presence [of Osiris], as to those who are in the following of Horus. Let there be prepared for me a seat in the Boat of the Sun on the day wheron the god saileth. Let me be received in the presence of Osiris in the Land of Truth-speaking- the Ka of Osiris Ani. APPENDIX APPENDIX (From the Papyrus of Nekht, Brit. Mus. No. 10471, Sheet 21) NEKHT, THE CAPTAIN OF SOLDIERS, THE ROYAL SCRIBE, SINGETH A HYMN OF PRAISE TO RA, and saith:- Homage to thee, O thou glorious Being, thou who art dowered [with all sovereignty]. O Tem-Heru-Khuti (Tem-Harmakhis), when thou risest in the horizon of heaven a cry of joy goeth forth to thee from all people. O thou beautiful Being, thou dost renew thyself in thy season in the form of the Disk, within thy mother Hathor. Therefore in every place every heart swelleth with joy at thy rising for ever. The regions of the South and the North come to … read more »
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I wasn’t that clear on that line… like a friend of mine – should have been – like a friend {Andrew} of mine. I labelled Andrew a skeptic because he agrees – and I agree too, everyone should be skeptical at first – because you always need to be aware of what is true or not, it is an ongoing process. Yes, I expect you to not agree to what I’ve written, I expect a lot of people to not agree and think I’ve totally lost it long, long ago. I’ve read into this area a lot, and long, long ago. I’m one who watches as much about the latest scientific developments and technology advances as much about the unexplained. It is OK for us to disagree – and if readers do not like my posts, then I recomend you put them on ignore. I’m not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, etc because no one can do that. I just want people to re-examine their beliefs and be open to what new information that is comfortable to them. I am open to discussions. It is difficult to discuss the points below, line by line via NG posts. If you wish to discuss things via ICQ, that is fine by me. It is perfectly alright for you and others not to agree with me. I expect it more often than not. Harvey In article <200009241320.HAA25…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >In article 969767841.1…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at >kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz wrote on 9/23/00 22:57: >> I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. If >> you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. >I’m not a sceptic. I believe I was born. I don’t believe I chose to be >born. I don’t choose to have you call me a sceptic, either, only because I >choose not to follow your simplistic system. Shall I call you a sceptic >because you don’t believe mine? >> Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – in >> a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have >> the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any >> odds you have against you. >I have free will now, but I sure didn’t before I was born. "Complete my >mission successfully?" What the Sam Hill does that mean? Is life one long >episode of "Mission Impossible"? Let me guess – I’m Barney. >Well, maybe my mission is to be dead. Oh, wait, that’s everyone’s mission. >And we’re all so successful at it – it really takes little effort, in the >end. >> Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have it. >And did a deep, booming voice from on high enlighten you with this factoid? >> Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each other >> to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only >> temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. You >> will go home to a better place. >Oh, so you and the deep, booming voice have been chatting it up about me? >> If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. If you have >> awareness – use it to find the truth. If you want to find the answer – go >> in search of the truth. >There is no "The Truth," and making these statements as though they are >fact doesn’t make them any more factual, realistic, likely, or even >applicable to reality. They have no meaning. They are nothing more than >comfort foods. Whatever gets you through the day. I’d rather have something >of substance. >If you have intelligence – open your eyes. >If you have awareness – open your eyes to what’s around you. If you want to >find an answer – stop trying to make one up. >– >For more information about this posting service, contact: >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Sorry this is not made up poppycock/etc. I go in search of the truth – the whole truth and nothing but the truth. People may regard it as crap, according to their own belief and what they are taught. I believe that you can find truth in this world – bits of it here and there, and when put together it does make sense, there is proof here and there to support it. And strangely enough this is what some people have been saying, writing about. Some people know the truth, and it’s spreading. Ultimately it doesn’t matter what you believe, you’re still part of this reality system, just like everyone else. There may not be any real advantage in knowing the truth [ie. it may not make you better off financially or materially] – but for some people they must know, I am one of them. I’m not content with the glib ideas and beliefs which do not hold to be true. I’m not content with dogma that does not make any sense, except that they hold people in chains to a hierachy system – giving control to others. Harvey In article <200009260232.UAA15…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >In article 969933866.778…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at >kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz wrote on 9/25/00 21:04: >> But in essence – everyone chooses to be born here, in this life, >> including you. >In essence, this is made-up poppycock (that apparently makes money for the >originators – note to self: must look into this as a possible secondary >source of income – "make stuff up and write books about it" and doesn’t >include anyone who is, shall we say, not inclined to make this stuff up or >believe those who do. Including me. >This is fine if you want to believe this sort of thing. But that does not >mean it "includes" anyone else, and insisting that it does doesn’t make it >so. >– >For more information about this posting service, contact: >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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There is a greater picture. No one can remember why they chose to be born here. If you knew, maybe you will fulfill your primary mission [knowing full well what it is], but you may forget all about your secondary missions/etc. And wouldn’t it be all too easy if you did know? Yes, we all chose to be born here, in this life. And we all forgot what it was – our mission(s). There is a sanity / logic to reincarnation. There is a popular misconception to reincarnation as well. It is good to want proof – to be skeptical, at first. Sometimes it’s good to see a simple view, for clarity. It is by all means not all there is to know. There will always be questions and more questions. And more questions still. Harvey In article <39cf60f…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >I agreed with Poet on this.. this is how I feel and how I would wish my >children to think.. >they did not choose birth.. however they can choose how to live life. >Pamela >"poet" <p…@asarian-host.org> wrote in message >news:200009241320.HAA25701@asarian-host.org… >> I’m not a sceptic. I believe I was born. I don’t believe I chose to be >> born. I don’t choose to have you call me a sceptic, either, only because I >> choose not to follow your simplistic system. Shall I call you a sceptic >> because you don’t believe mine?
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Can people be divided into different groups? eg. Those who lie and deceive people. Those who lie and deceive people but with good intentions? Those who lie and deceive with bad intentions. Those who seek truth and are fooled into believing something is true, but is not and are therefore misguided. Those who seek truth and have found some part of the truth. Those who seek truth and are still searching. Those who seek truth and have given up, because it’s too difficult a task. Those who do not seek truth at all … for various reasons. … … … We all decide who we believe in, who we do not. Much of the unexplained will be explained one day, and be accepted as being normal. Science and technology will confirm what is true and what are misconceptions — one day. Harvey In article <39cfa…@news.server.worldonline.co.uk>, sandcas…@sandcastle.worldonline.co.uk says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->What I meant to say was, I can’t really see how Madame Blavatsky’s >particular brand of charlatanry is qualitatively different from the many >ill-informed and quite arbitrary spoutings of self-styled prophets and >so-called messiahs. I admit to a certain cynicism when presented with the >works of such. However, I do feel it important to point out at this time >that I am a fully committed Fortean, and I do approve of Strange Stuff >hanging around and softening the edges of an otherwise harsh and >uncompromising universe. But we must not be disappointed when our >candlelight illuminates nothing more than vague shadows…it is the nature >of things, I guess. For the universe is neither this, that, here nor there, >it just likes to do its own thing…we measure a circle belonging anywhere, >etc etc. "There is nothing in science or religion than I think to be more >than the proper thing to wear for a while", etc etc etc. >OTS >ps Sorry if I was sounding overly impatient and derisive. The walls are >closing in tonight. >Wing Commander Sandcastle wrote in message ><39cf7…@news.server.worldonline.co.uk>… >>Why discriminate when you’ve already demonstrated your credibility level is >>totally out of the plane of the solar system? >>OTS >>>I don’t agree with everything and everyone linked with new age – >>>eg. I don’t think much about Madame Blavatsky and her >>>"The Secret Doctrine" book. >>>Harvey >>>>– >>>>For more information about this posting service, contact: >>>>h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >>>>If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >>>>http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Going one to one, will be simpler and clearer to enable a better communication and understanding to take place, instead of not quite understanding each other, which is happening at the moment. I find email limiting, and email is fine when you do understand the other person, but sometimes it’s just not connecting, the communication(s). Just my views, my feelings. I don’t mind if we still end up agreeing to disagree – that is OK. I think in most cases, that’s the way it goes anyway… Harvey In article <39cf610…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why is it difficult here Harvey.. why go one on one.. tis interesting to me >and.. is not part of support.. kind of agreeing to disagree.. don’t take it >personal.. but.. maybe it would help you to open a bit and not be quite so >philosophical.. what have you got to loose but a little loneliness by >opening up those day to day experiences.. >Active communication and friendship means.. you let other’s help you find >the direction you need to take sometimes in life to find the goal your still >seeking.. >Pamela >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz> wrote in message >news:969829445.68556@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> I wasn’t that clear on that line… like a friend of mine – should have >been – >> like a friend {Andrew} of mine. >> I labelled Andrew a skeptic because he agrees – and I agree too, everyone >> should be skeptical at first – because you always need to be aware of what >is >> true or not, it is an ongoing process. >> Yes, I expect you to not agree to what I’ve written, I expect a lot of >people >> to not agree and think I’ve totally lost it long, long ago. >> I’ve read into this area a lot, and long, long ago. I’m one who watches >> as much about the latest scientific developments and technology advances >> as much about the unexplained. >> It is OK for us to disagree – and if readers do not like my posts, then >> I recomend you put them on ignore. >> I’m not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, etc because no one >can >> do that. I just want people to re-examine their beliefs and be open to >> what new information that is comfortable to them. >> I am open to discussions. >> It is difficult to discuss the points below, line by line via NG posts. >> If you wish to discuss things via ICQ, that is fine by me. >> It is perfectly alright for you and others not to agree with me. >> I expect it more often than not. >> Harvey >> In article <200009241320.HAA25…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org >> says… >> >x-no-archive: yes >> >In article 969767841.1…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at >> >kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz wrote on 9/23/00 22:57: >> >> I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. >If >> >> you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. >> >I’m not a sceptic. I believe I was born. I don’t believe I chose to be >> >born. I don’t choose to have you call me a sceptic, either, only because >I >> >choose not to follow your simplistic system. Shall I call you a sceptic >> >because you don’t believe mine? >> >> Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – >in >> >> a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have >> >> the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any >> >> odds you have against you. >> >I have free will now, but I sure didn’t before I was born. "Complete my >> >mission successfully?" What the Sam Hill does that mean? Is life one long >> >episode of "Mission Impossible"? Let me guess – I’m Barney. >> >Well, maybe my mission is to be dead. Oh, wait, that’s everyone’s >mission. >> >And we’re all so successful at it – it really takes little effort, in the >> >end. >> >> Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have >it. >> >And did a deep, booming voice from on high enlighten you with this >factoid? >> >> Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each >other >> >> to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only >> >> temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. >You >> >> will go home to a better place. >> >Oh, so you and the deep, booming voice have been chatting it up about me? >> >> If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. If you have >> >> awareness – use it to find the truth. If you want to find the answer – >go >> >> in search of the truth. >> >There is no "The Truth," and making these statements as though they are >> >fact doesn’t make them any more factual, realistic, likely, or even >> >applicable to reality. They have no meaning. They are nothing more than >> >comfort foods. Whatever gets you through the day. I’d rather have >something >> >of substance. >> >If you have intelligence – open your eyes. >> >If you have awareness – open your eyes to what’s around you. If you want >to >> >find an answer – stop trying to make one up. >> >– >> >For more information about this posting service, contact: >> >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >> >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >> >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Why discriminate when you’ve already demonstrated your credibility level is totally out of the plane of the solar system? OTS – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I don’t agree with everything and everyone linked with new age – >eg. I don’t think much about Madame Blavatsky and her >"The Secret Doctrine" book. >Harvey >>– >>For more information about this posting service, contact: >>h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >>If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >>http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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What I meant to say was, I can’t really see how Madame Blavatsky’s particular brand of charlatanry is qualitatively different from the many ill-informed and quite arbitrary spoutings of self-styled prophets and so-called messiahs. I admit to a certain cynicism when presented with the works of such. However, I do feel it important to point out at this time that I am a fully committed Fortean, and I do approve of Strange Stuff hanging around and softening the edges of an otherwise harsh and uncompromising universe. But we must not be disappointed when our candlelight illuminates nothing more than vague shadows…it is the nature of things, I guess. For the universe is neither this, that, here nor there, it just likes to do its own thing…we measure a circle belonging anywhere, etc etc. "There is nothing in science or religion than I think to be more than the proper thing to wear for a while", etc etc etc. OTS ps Sorry if I was sounding overly impatient and derisive. The walls are closing in tonight. Wing Commander Sandcastle wrote in message
<39cf7…@news.server.worldonline.co.uk>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Why discriminate when you’ve already demonstrated your credibility level is >totally out of the plane of the solar system? >OTS >>I don’t agree with everything and everyone linked with new age – >>eg. I don’t think much about Madame Blavatsky and her >>"The Secret Doctrine" book. >>Harvey >>>– >>>For more information about this posting service, contact: >>>h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >>>If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >>>http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Why is it difficult here Harvey.. why go one on one.. tis interesting to me and.. is not part of support.. kind of agreeing to disagree.. don’t take it personal.. but.. maybe it would help you to open a bit and not be quite so philosophical.. what have you got to loose but a little loneliness by opening up those day to day experiences.. Active communication and friendship means.. you let other’s help you find the direction you need to take sometimes in life to find the goal your still seeking.. Pamela "Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz> wrote in message news:969829445.68556@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I wasn’t that clear on that line… like a friend of mine – should have been – > like a friend {Andrew} of mine. > I labelled Andrew a skeptic because he agrees – and I agree too, everyone > should be skeptical at first – because you always need to be aware of what is > true or not, it is an ongoing process. > Yes, I expect you to not agree to what I’ve written, I expect a lot of people > to not agree and think I’ve totally lost it long, long ago. > I’ve read into this area a lot, and long, long ago. I’m one who watches > as much about the latest scientific developments and technology advances > as much about the unexplained. > It is OK for us to disagree – and if readers do not like my posts, then > I recomend you put them on ignore. > I’m not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, etc because no one can > do that. I just want people to re-examine their beliefs and be open to > what new information that is comfortable to them. > I am open to discussions. > It is difficult to discuss the points below, line by line via NG posts. > If you wish to discuss things via ICQ, that is fine by me. > It is perfectly alright for you and others not to agree with me. > I expect it more often than not. > Harvey > In article <200009241320.HAA25…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org > says… > >x-no-archive: yes > >In article 969767841.1…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at > >kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz wrote on 9/23/00 22:57: > >> I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. If > >> you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. > >I’m not a sceptic. I believe I was born. I don’t believe I chose to be > >born. I don’t choose to have you call me a sceptic, either, only because I > >choose not to follow your simplistic system. Shall I call you a sceptic > >because you don’t believe mine? > >> Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – in > >> a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have > >> the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any > >> odds you have against you. > >I have free will now, but I sure didn’t before I was born. "Complete my > >mission successfully?" What the Sam Hill does that mean? Is life one long > >episode of "Mission Impossible"? Let me guess – I’m Barney. > >Well, maybe my mission is to be dead. Oh, wait, that’s everyone’s mission. > >And we’re all so successful at it – it really takes little effort, in the > >end. > >> Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have it. > >And did a deep, booming voice from on high enlighten you with this factoid? > >> Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each other > >> to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only > >> temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. You > >> will go home to a better place. > >Oh, so you and the deep, booming voice have been chatting it up about me? > >> If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. If you have > >> awareness – use it to find the truth. If you want to find the answer – go > >> in search of the truth. > >There is no "The Truth," and making these statements as though they are > >fact doesn’t make them any more factual, realistic, likely, or even > >applicable to reality. They have no meaning. They are nothing more than > >comfort foods. Whatever gets you through the day. I’d rather have something > >of substance. > >If you have intelligence – open your eyes. > >If you have awareness – open your eyes to what’s around you. If you want to > >find an answer – stop trying to make one up. > >– > >For more information about this posting service, contact: > >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. > >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: > >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
Response:
Sure.. we even have some legal people here who can take the case.. giggle.. so.. are you divorcing me, Harvey, ASL as a whole.. or the self inside the shell OTS Pamela "Wing Commander Sandcastle" <sandcas…@sandcastle.worldonline.co.uk> wrote in message news:39cde5de@news.server.worldonline.co.uk… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Can I apply for a divorce? > OTS
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In article <200009250028.SAA15…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… >x-no-archive: yes >In article 969829445.68…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at >kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz wrote on 9/24/00 16:04: >> I wasn’t that clear on that line… like a friend of mine – should have >> been – like a friend {Andrew} of mine. I labelled Andrew a skeptic >> because he agrees – and I agree too, everyone should be skeptical at >> first – because you always need to be aware of what is true or not, it is >> an ongoing process. >There is no one, immutable truth, and what is true for you is not true for >me, but this does not make me a sceptic.
I believe that truth can be found in many things. That which is not taken for granted now, which is unexplained will one day be known to be true. A simple example are ghosts. One day science ought to be able to photograph them as normal people can be. There are many things that lie unexplained, that will one day be explained and understood – is this not how things have been happening as science has progressed and progressed. >> Yes, I expect you to not agree to what I’ve written, I expect a lot of >> people to not agree and think I’ve totally lost it long, long ago. >Lost what?
One’s sanity – one’s sense of reality, etc. I haven’t lost my sense of sanity or reality, I want to know about things as they are, that which is. The greater picture. >> I’ve read into this area a lot, and long, long ago. I’m one who watches >> as much about the latest scientific developments and technology advances >> as much about the unexplained. >Some things are inexplicable, and those who come up with explanations are >just feeding off the anxieties of those who have a need to know the >unknowable. They’re no more privy to The Truth than anyone else. Yet they >still manage to make money off the desperation.
The inexplicable things can be explained and understood. eg. A person with an excellent sense of hearing and appreciation of music can detect and enjoy the subtleness of fine music. People with true psychic gifts are able to see things present, which normal people can’t see and detect. The truth is that which is, which cannot be denied, is real and not imagined. >> It is OK for us to disagree – and if readers do not like my posts, then I >> recomend you put them on ignore. >It’s not a matter of not liking them. It’s a matter of pointing out that >all these bald statements are not statements of fact, nor are they truths, >nor do they apply to most of the known universe.
People die every day, and one’s own death is imminent. Death is as much a part of life as is birth. Are people who have experienced near death experiences – experiencing a delusion or fantasy when they describe what they have experienced? ie. going down a tunnel, meeting angel(s), the feeling of unearthly love, etc. And they say – that they no longer fear dying and death – why are these experiences similar? Those who have experienced it? Granted that not everyone has these experiences, in near death encounters. >> I’m not trying to convert you to my way of thinking, etc because no one >> can do that. I just want people to re-examine their beliefs and be open >> to what new information that is comfortable to them. I am open to >> discussions. >Are you open to the possibility that this New Age spirituality is like >comfort food? Makes you feel good but leaves you empty and malnourished?
I don’t believe everything and everyone connected with new age. eg. I haven’t read any of Shirley MacLaine’s books. Perhaps I won’t like her books and ideas? People have commented that she hasn’t written anything new. >> It is difficult to discuss the points below, line by line via NG posts. >> If you wish to discuss things via ICQ, that is fine by me. >Why is it difficult?
If you reply to this post with a response, it gets pretty difficult to see the comments you’ve made, etc. To follow the train of thoughts? >> It is perfectly alright for you and others not to agree with me. >Is it?
Everyone does have different opinions, even those who seem to agree with each other – they can be different yet again, still. >> I expect it more often than not. >I will always disagree that anyone has dibs on "The Truth." Or even has a >grasp of what it is. >– >anon-14…@anon.twwells.com | p…@asarian-host.org >ICQ: 28575776 | AIM: Artemis H1
I can’t say I know it all, etc. I have a friend, who’s much more intelligent than I am, and she believes in much the same stuff as I do. And in time world opinion will change to encompass these things as well, because science will advance more and more into the unexplained as time passes. I don’t agree with everything and everyone linked with new age – eg. I don’t think much about Madame Blavatsky and her "The Secret Doctrine" book. Harvey – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->– >For more information about this posting service, contact: >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
Response:
Can I apply for a divorce? OTS Your Name Here = Harvey wrote in message <968570062.988…@Chaos.es.co.nz>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Thanks Pamela for your thoughts… >Some people have their own checklist of what they are seeking, >in which the list may be long? Other’s have a very short list of what’s >required in their mate. >Perfection is a state of wanting to go there, choosing to walk down the >same road together. >Harvey >In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com says… >>I think we that are single all wish the same thing >>I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness >>inside.. >>I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by >>reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better >>about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about >>becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world >>somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. >>I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the >>person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a >>woman.. >>I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. however >>it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I >>have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and >>work to make it become what I seek. >>I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing my >>part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a real >>effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. it >>isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. >>and it’s not easy.. but you got to try >>I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and >>love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. >>however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a >>difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe one >>other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I >>got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve into >>reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach them >>realistically with all you got.. >>Pamela >>"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >>news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… >>> Oh how I wish tonight >>> upon a starry sky >>> upon a lone star >>> in the darkest night, >>> that my one wish will come true. >>> To dream of the one >>> out there, wishing the same wish >>> to be with someone dear and true >>> to become one’s lover >>> in love and romance >>> forever? >>> That upon that one star >>> she is wishing too >>> that when she sees me >>> she will recognise in me >>> the kismet of two >>> destined to meet? >>> Is it so naive >>> to dream of a storybook romance >>> in which two souls >>> make the committment >>> to love each other forever >>> and live with the hope >>> that it will happen. >>> And so everything possible >>> so that it does. >>> No, the sky is not dark >>> and clear, >>> it’s the middle of the afternoon, >>> grey and raining. >>> I can still wish upon a star >>> that is in my heart >>> waiting for my true love. >>> Harvey >>—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >>http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >>—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
That was very sweet Harvey.. though I wish on a star almost every night for someone I know needs a wish.. I don’t wish for me. It never worked when I did Thank you Pamela "Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:969178382.837400@Chaos.es.co.nz… > I’ll wish upon your star Pamela – that your dreams and wishes will come > true – the wonderful ones you want. I’m sure they will. > Harvey > In article <39c3fe0…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com>,
unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> says… > >um.. I don’t know.. I plan my life to be the best I can be and to give as > >much as I can to other’s with whatever I come to achieve and I believe you > >grown when you give to your community that surrounds you.. > >However it’s kinda in Gods hands if I find my partner or not. I’m hoping it > >comes to pass.. but all things happen for a reason don’t they and I’m not > >just here on earth for selfish reasons and I’m just one person in a > >gazillion.. I’m here as simply one of God’s children doing the best that I > >can.. period > >Pamela > >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz> wrote in message > >news:969003771.661040@Chaos.es.co.nz… > >> It is nice when you can plan for something, and you take the steps to make > >> it happen, and it does happen towards a successful end. > >> That does happen sometimes with what you do – if only it would happen all > >> the time – now that would be nice. > >> What you can’t plan on, is how the other person reacts and feels – you can > >> only just hope they feel the same way, or in a similar fashion, so that > >> both of your dreams will come true. > >> You can allow for what happiness to happen – in it’s own fashion, and hope > >> the other realises this too – that it was planned for as well. > >> Harvey > >> In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com > >says… > >> >I think we that are single all wish the same thing > >> >I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness > >> >inside.. > >> >I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by > >> >reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better > >> >about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about > >> >becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world > >> >somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. > >> >I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the > >> >person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a > >> >woman.. > >> >I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. > >however > >> >it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I > >> >have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and > >> >work to make it become what I seek. > >> >I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing > >my > >> >part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a > >real > >> >effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. > >it > >> >isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. > >> >and it’s not easy.. but you got to try > >> >I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and > >> >love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. > >> >however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a > >> >difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe > >one > >> >other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I > >> >got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve > >into > >> >reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach > >them > >> >realistically with all you got.. > >> >Pamela > >> >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > >> >news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… > >> >> Oh how I wish tonight > >> >> upon a starry sky > >> >> upon a lone star > >> >> in the darkest night, > >> >> that my one wish will come true. > >> >> To dream of the one > >> >> out there, wishing the same wish > >> >> to be with someone dear and true > >> >> to become one’s lover > >> >> in love and romance > >> >> forever? > >> >> That upon that one star > >> >> she is wishing too > >> >> that when she sees me > >> >> she will recognise in me > >> >> the kismet of two > >> >> destined to meet? > >> >> Is it so naive > >> >> to dream of a storybook romance > >> >> in which two souls > >> >> make the committment > >> >> to love each other forever > >> >> and live with the hope > >> >> that it will happen. > >> >> And so everything possible > >> >> so that it does. > >> >> No, the sky is not dark > >> >> and clear, > >> >> it’s the middle of the afternoon, > >> >> grey and raining. > >> >> I can still wish upon a star > >> >> that is in my heart > >> >> waiting for my true love. > >> >> Harvey > >> >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > >> >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > >> >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I’ll wish upon your star Pamela – that your dreams and wishes will come true – the wonderful ones you want. I’m sure they will. Harvey In article <39c3fe0…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->um.. I don’t know.. I plan my life to be the best I can be and to give as >much as I can to other’s with whatever I come to achieve and I believe you >grown when you give to your community that surrounds you.. >However it’s kinda in Gods hands if I find my partner or not. I’m hoping it >comes to pass.. but all things happen for a reason don’t they and I’m not >just here on earth for selfish reasons and I’m just one person in a >gazillion.. I’m here as simply one of God’s children doing the best that I >can.. period >Pamela >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz> wrote in message >news:969003771.661040@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> It is nice when you can plan for something, and you take the steps to make >> it happen, and it does happen towards a successful end. >> That does happen sometimes with what you do – if only it would happen all >> the time – now that would be nice. >> What you can’t plan on, is how the other person reacts and feels – you can >> only just hope they feel the same way, or in a similar fashion, so that >> both of your dreams will come true. >> You can allow for what happiness to happen – in it’s own fashion, and hope >> the other realises this too – that it was planned for as well. >> Harvey >> In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com >says… >> >I think we that are single all wish the same thing >> >I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness >> >inside.. >> >I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by >> >reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better >> >about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about >> >becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world >> >somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. >> >I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the >> >person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a >> >woman.. >> >I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. >however >> >it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I >> >have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and >> >work to make it become what I seek. >> >I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing >my >> >part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a >real >> >effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. >it >> >isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. >> >and it’s not easy.. but you got to try >> >I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and >> >love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. >> >however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a >> >difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe >one >> >other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I >> >got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve >into >> >reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach >them >> >realistically with all you got.. >> >Pamela >> >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >> >news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> >> Oh how I wish tonight >> >> upon a starry sky >> >> upon a lone star >> >> in the darkest night, >> >> that my one wish will come true. >> >> To dream of the one >> >> out there, wishing the same wish >> >> to be with someone dear and true >> >> to become one’s lover >> >> in love and romance >> >> forever? >> >> That upon that one star >> >> she is wishing too >> >> that when she sees me >> >> she will recognise in me >> >> the kismet of two >> >> destined to meet? >> >> Is it so naive >> >> to dream of a storybook romance >> >> in which two souls >> >> make the committment >> >> to love each other forever >> >> and live with the hope >> >> that it will happen. >> >> And so everything possible >> >> so that it does. >> >> No, the sky is not dark >> >> and clear, >> >> it’s the middle of the afternoon, >> >> grey and raining. >> >> I can still wish upon a star >> >> that is in my heart >> >> waiting for my true love. >> >> Harvey >> >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >> >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >> >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
um.. I don’t know.. I plan my life to be the best I can be and to give as much as I can to other’s with whatever I come to achieve and I believe you grown when you give to your community that surrounds you.. However it’s kinda in Gods hands if I find my partner or not. I’m hoping it comes to pass.. but all things happen for a reason don’t they and I’m not just here on earth for selfish reasons and I’m just one person in a gazillion.. I’m here as simply one of God’s children doing the best that I can.. period Pamela "Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz> wrote in message news:969003771.661040@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> It is nice when you can plan for something, and you take the steps to make > it happen, and it does happen towards a successful end. > That does happen sometimes with what you do – if only it would happen all > the time – now that would be nice. > What you can’t plan on, is how the other person reacts and feels – you can > only just hope they feel the same way, or in a similar fashion, so that > both of your dreams will come true. > You can allow for what happiness to happen – in it’s own fashion, and hope > the other realises this too – that it was planned for as well. > Harvey > In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com says… > >I think we that are single all wish the same thing > >I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness > >inside.. > >I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by > >reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better > >about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about > >becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world > >somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. > >I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the > >person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a > >woman.. > >I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. however > >it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I > >have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and > >work to make it become what I seek. > >I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing my > >part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a real > >effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. it > >isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. > >and it’s not easy.. but you got to try > >I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and > >love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. > >however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a > >difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe one > >other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I > >got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve into > >reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach them > >realistically with all you got.. > >Pamela > >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > >news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… > >> Oh how I wish tonight > >> upon a starry sky > >> upon a lone star > >> in the darkest night, > >> that my one wish will come true. > >> To dream of the one > >> out there, wishing the same wish > >> to be with someone dear and true > >> to become one’s lover > >> in love and romance > >> forever? > >> That upon that one star > >> she is wishing too > >> that when she sees me > >> she will recognise in me > >> the kismet of two > >> destined to meet? > >> Is it so naive > >> to dream of a storybook romance > >> in which two souls > >> make the committment > >> to love each other forever > >> and live with the hope > >> that it will happen. > >> And so everything possible > >> so that it does. > >> No, the sky is not dark > >> and clear, > >> it’s the middle of the afternoon, > >> grey and raining. > >> I can still wish upon a star > >> that is in my heart > >> waiting for my true love. > >> Harvey > >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
It is nice when you can plan for something, and you take the steps to make it happen, and it does happen towards a successful end. That does happen sometimes with what you do – if only it would happen all the time – now that would be nice. What you can’t plan on, is how the other person reacts and feels – you can only just hope they feel the same way, or in a similar fashion, so that both of your dreams will come true. You can allow for what happiness to happen – in it’s own fashion, and hope the other realises this too – that it was planned for as well. Harvey In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I think we that are single all wish the same thing >I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness >inside.. >I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by >reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better >about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about >becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world >somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. >I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the >person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a >woman.. >I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. however >it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I >have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and >work to make it become what I seek. >I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing my >part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a real >effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. it >isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. >and it’s not easy.. but you got to try >I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and >love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. >however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a >difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe one >other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I >got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve into >reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach them >realistically with all you got.. >Pamela >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> Oh how I wish tonight >> upon a starry sky >> upon a lone star >> in the darkest night, >> that my one wish will come true. >> To dream of the one >> out there, wishing the same wish >> to be with someone dear and true >> to become one’s lover >> in love and romance >> forever? >> That upon that one star >> she is wishing too >> that when she sees me >> she will recognise in me >> the kismet of two >> destined to meet? >> Is it so naive >> to dream of a storybook romance >> in which two souls >> make the committment >> to love each other forever >> and live with the hope >> that it will happen. >> And so everything possible >> so that it does. >> No, the sky is not dark >> and clear, >> it’s the middle of the afternoon, >> grey and raining. >> I can still wish upon a star >> that is in my heart >> waiting for my true love. >> Harvey >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
I think we that are single all wish the same thing I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness inside.. I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a woman.. I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. however it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and work to make it become what I seek. I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing my part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a real effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. it isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. and it’s not easy.. but you got to try I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe one other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve into reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach them realistically with all you got.. Pamela "Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Oh how I wish tonight > upon a starry sky > upon a lone star > in the darkest night, > that my one wish will come true. > To dream of the one > out there, wishing the same wish > to be with someone dear and true > to become one’s lover > in love and romance > forever? > That upon that one star > she is wishing too > that when she sees me > she will recognise in me > the kismet of two > destined to meet? > Is it so naive > to dream of a storybook romance > in which two souls > make the committment > to love each other forever > and live with the hope > that it will happen. > And so everything possible > so that it does. > No, the sky is not dark > and clear, > it’s the middle of the afternoon, > grey and raining. > I can still wish upon a star > that is in my heart > waiting for my true love. > Harvey
—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Thanks Pamela for your thoughts… Some people have their own checklist of what they are seeking, in which the list may be long? Other’s have a very short list of what’s required in their mate. Perfection is a state of wanting to go there, choosing to walk down the same road together. Harvey In article <39ba5ec…@news.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I think we that are single all wish the same thing >I’ll wish on a star tonight for you Harvey.. that you find the happiness >inside.. >I still believe though… it will only happen if you make it happen by >reaching out, going places, doing things and try to make you feel better >about you, dreams can’t just be about finding a mate.. it has to be about >becoming what you seek too.. you have to make your place in the world >somehow.. find the nitch in which you fit.. >I know this melancholy feeling.. this hope that somehow you’ll find the >person that feeds that need for love that is only born of a man and a >woman.. >I too hope I find someone I can really share my life with someday.. however >it’s not going to happen if I just wait for life to happen around me.. I >have to make my life, keep growing inside, keep reaching to other’s.. and >work to make it become what I seek. >I can wish, I can dream, I can hope and I can pray… but if I stop doing my >part in working to improve myself, and if I dream but I don’t make a real >effort to "get out" there and learn those single social skills I lack.. it >isn’t gonna happen.. things don’t just get handed to you in "real" life.. >and it’s not easy.. but you got to try >I can also dream of a perfect world.. a world of peace and happiness and >love… dreaming’s good for ya.. that vision isn’t impossible either.. >however if I really, really.. believe in my dream, if I want to make a >difference somehow to the me inside myself..change my life, change maybe one >other’s.. I’m gonna work towards it, even fight for it with everything I >got inside and out, not just dream about it.. dreams can’t ever evolve into >reality’s unless you focus on the goal and plan and find a way to reach them >realistically with all you got.. >Pamela >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:968468621.568737@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> Oh how I wish tonight >> upon a starry sky >> upon a lone star >> in the darkest night, >> that my one wish will come true. >> To dream of the one >> out there, wishing the same wish >> to be with someone dear and true >> to become one’s lover >> in love and romance >> forever? >> That upon that one star >> she is wishing too >> that when she sees me >> she will recognise in me >> the kismet of two >> destined to meet? >> Is it so naive >> to dream of a storybook romance >> in which two souls >> make the committment >> to love each other forever >> and live with the hope >> that it will happen. >> And so everything possible >> so that it does. >> No, the sky is not dark >> and clear, >> it’s the middle of the afternoon, >> grey and raining. >> I can still wish upon a star >> that is in my heart >> waiting for my true love. >> Harvey >—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– >http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! >—–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
>nothing in this >world that is "perfect" .. for perfection is actually a flaw.
WOW! Great quote. I will have to remember it. Is it yours or is there a source? IronicMn
Response:
Pamela, Scroll please. Unicorn <unicorn_4_ma…@deja.com> wrote in message
news:39ba610f_2@news.newsfeeds.com… > You have touched more lives in more positive ways than you will ever > realize.. your one of the most giving hearts I have ever met in my life.. > you always worry for other’s.. yet this is a venting ground to for all > during the rough stuff in life..
Thank you for saying that. I’ve always tried to be a giving person…unfortunately, more often than not, I run up against my true personality, and she’s anything but giving… As for worrying for others and being a positive influence, I hope that you take what you are saying to me, and apply it right back to yourself. You, and many others that I know, constantly continue to beat your heads against the wall of my stubborn ability to hang on to the negative…if that’s not the mark of a caring heart, I don’t know what is. I don’t want to use this as a venting ground, yet it seems, so often, I end up doing just that. > You are a good person Angela.. I wish you could see yourself from other’s > minds.. for I know in reality. how much you give, and how little you > actually take.. the unfortunate flip side of this is other’s will steal your > nature from you because they are takers of the spirit that they have lost > somehow inside themselves.. that’s a boundary you have to learn and set for > self so it doesn’t keep happening to you.. me too lady.. me too..
I’ve seen myself from others’ minds…and been found sorely wanting. I take alot more than I deserve, and I know it. That doesn’t stop me from needing it, though…people can try to take from me now, but it’s like trying to bleed a turnip…I have nothing left for them to take. My spirit leaked out of its own free will, and I let it happen, because at the time I was powerless to stop it. > Even the mightiest river sometimes in drought.. needs to dip into the > springs water to fill it’s banks again to flow and become the mighty river > once again and then out into the ocean…
Yes, but in my case it seems more like trying to pour a trickle of water on a wildfire…the fire rages, despite all efforts. Things keep happening to feed it, until even an ocean of care couldn’t quench it. Dear lady, you know as well as I do that the part of me who used to show care for others is basically dead. Efforts to resuscitate her have been largely unsuccessful, up to this point. Thank you for your words, lady, and for being willing to try to conquer that part of me that insists on allowing me only to exist, rather than to live. You truly are an understanding soul. Thank you. Angela – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> "Scylla" <eeyor…@mindspring.com> wrote in message > news:8pdh93$m6e$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… > > Harvey, > > I used to feel that way. Maybe, deep down, I still do. I hope to feel > that > > way again, though I don’t know how to get back to it. Yes, I have fears > and > > walls, by the hundreds, these days…whether I want them broken down or > not > > is a matter of much debate, within. > > I do try to touch others with whatever goodness I have left…I just seem > to > > fail, lately, more often than not. Goodness can be a difficult thing to > > recover. > > Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > > news:968484259.928760@Chaos.es.co.nz… > > > For some strange reason, I think that the dream can be fulfilled, > > > that what you really want, if it’s not asking too much, can be realised? > > > I guess I like to keep hope alive, rather than not have any at all… > > > I simply cannot understand, why the goodness in one person cannot > > > touch another. People have so many walls and fears, that it > > > keeps people away. > > > Your opinion is fine – I guess it’s felt by many people here, > > > that feel likewise, that it’s their experience too? > > > Harvey > > > In article <8pcebk$8f…@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, > eeyor…@mindspring.com > > > says… > > > >Sigh…of course, I must offer my opinion…never can keep my mouth > > shut… > > > >> >Is it so naive > > > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > > > >Yes…because when that dream fades, or is killed, it makes your > > existence > > > >that much more devastating. I know that’s a depressing thought, but > > > >nevertheless, that’s how it looks from my little corner…no positive > > > >thoughts live here, for very long. > > > >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > > > >news:968472480.623273@Chaos.es.co.nz… > > > >> Corrected below > > > >> In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, > > kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz > > > >> says… > > > >> >Oh how I wish tonight > > > >> >upon a starry sky > > > >> >upon a lone star > > > >> >in the darkest night, > > > >> >that my one wish will come true. > > > >> >To dream of the one > > > >> >out there, wishing the same wish > > > >> >to be with someone dear and true > > > >> >to become one’s lover > > > >> >in love and romance > > > >> >forever? > > > >> >That upon that one star > > > >> >she is wishing too > > > >> >that when she sees me > > > >> >she will recognise in me > > > >> >the kismet of two > > > >> >destined to meet? > > > >> >Is it so naive > > > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > > > >> >in which two souls > > > >> >make the committment > > > >> >to love each other forever > > > >> >and live with the hope and dream > > > >> >that it will happen. > > > >> >And so anything is possible > > > >> >so that it does happen. > > > >> >No, the sky is not dark > > > >> >and clear, > > > >> >it’s the middle of the afternoon, > > > >> >grey and raining. > > > >> >I can still wish upon a star > > > >> >that is in my heart > > > >> >waiting for my true love. > > > >> >Harvey > —–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– > http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! > —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Angela You have touched more lives in more positive ways than you will ever realize.. your one of the most giving hearts I have ever met in my life.. you always worry for other’s.. yet this is a venting ground to for all during the rough stuff in life.. You are a good person Angela.. I wish you could see yourself from other’s minds.. for I know in reality. how much you give, and how little you actually take.. the unfortunate flip side of this is other’s will steal your nature from you because they are takers of the spirit that they have lost somehow inside themselves.. that’s a boundary you have to learn and set for self so it doesn’t keep happening to you.. me too lady.. me too.. Even the mightiest river sometimes in drought.. needs to dip into the springs water to fill it’s banks again to flow and become the mighty river once again and then out into the ocean… Pamela "Scylla" <eeyor…@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:8pdh93$m6e$1@slb7.atl.mindspring.net… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Harvey, > I used to feel that way. Maybe, deep down, I still do. I hope to feel that > way again, though I don’t know how to get back to it. Yes, I have fears and > walls, by the hundreds, these days…whether I want them broken down or not > is a matter of much debate, within. > I do try to touch others with whatever goodness I have left…I just seem to > fail, lately, more often than not. Goodness can be a difficult thing to > recover. > Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > news:968484259.928760@Chaos.es.co.nz… > > For some strange reason, I think that the dream can be fulfilled, > > that what you really want, if it’s not asking too much, can be realised? > > I guess I like to keep hope alive, rather than not have any at all… > > I simply cannot understand, why the goodness in one person cannot > > touch another. People have so many walls and fears, that it > > keeps people away. > > Your opinion is fine – I guess it’s felt by many people here, > > that feel likewise, that it’s their experience too? > > Harvey > > In article <8pcebk$8f…@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>,
eeyor…@mindspring.com – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > says… > > >Sigh…of course, I must offer my opinion…never can keep my mouth > shut… > > >> >Is it so naive > > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > > >Yes…because when that dream fades, or is killed, it makes your > existence > > >that much more devastating. I know that’s a depressing thought, but > > >nevertheless, that’s how it looks from my little corner…no positive > > >thoughts live here, for very long. > > >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > > >news:968472480.623273@Chaos.es.co.nz… > > >> Corrected below > > >> In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, > kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz > > >> says… > > >> >Oh how I wish tonight > > >> >upon a starry sky > > >> >upon a lone star > > >> >in the darkest night, > > >> >that my one wish will come true. > > >> >To dream of the one > > >> >out there, wishing the same wish > > >> >to be with someone dear and true > > >> >to become one’s lover > > >> >in love and romance > > >> >forever? > > >> >That upon that one star > > >> >she is wishing too > > >> >that when she sees me > > >> >she will recognise in me > > >> >the kismet of two > > >> >destined to meet? > > >> >Is it so naive > > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > > >> >in which two souls > > >> >make the committment > > >> >to love each other forever > > >> >and live with the hope and dream > > >> >that it will happen. > > >> >And so anything is possible > > >> >so that it does happen. > > >> >No, the sky is not dark > > >> >and clear, > > >> >it’s the middle of the afternoon, > > >> >grey and raining. > > >> >I can still wish upon a star > > >> >that is in my heart > > >> >waiting for my true love. > > >> >Harvey
—–= Posted via Newsfeeds.Com, Uncensored Usenet News =—– http://www.newsfeeds.com – The #1 Newsgroup Service in the World! —–== Over 80,000 Newsgroups – 16 Different Servers! =—–
Response:
Oh how I wish tonight upon a starry sky upon a lone star in the darkest night, that my one wish will come true. To dream of the one out there, wishing the same wish to be with someone dear and true to become one’s lover in love and romance forever? That upon that one star she is wishing too that when she sees me she will recognise in me the kismet of two destined to meet? Is it so naive to dream of a storybook romance in which two souls make the committment to love each other forever and live with the hope that it will happen. And so everything possible so that it does. No, the sky is not dark and clear, it’s the middle of the afternoon, grey and raining. I can still wish upon a star that is in my heart waiting for my true love. Harvey
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Corrected below In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Oh how I wish tonight >upon a starry sky >upon a lone star >in the darkest night, >that my one wish will come true. >To dream of the one >out there, wishing the same wish >to be with someone dear and true >to become one’s lover >in love and romance >forever? >That upon that one star >she is wishing too >that when she sees me >she will recognise in me >the kismet of two >destined to meet? >Is it so naive >to dream of a storybook romance >in which two souls >make the committment >to love each other forever >and live with the hope and dream >that it will happen. >And so anything is possible >so that it does happen. >No, the sky is not dark >and clear, >it’s the middle of the afternoon, >grey and raining. >I can still wish upon a star >that is in my heart >waiting for my true love. >Harvey
Response:
Harvey, I used to feel that way. Maybe, deep down, I still do. I hope to feel that way again, though I don’t know how to get back to it. Yes, I have fears and walls, by the hundreds, these days…whether I want them broken down or not is a matter of much debate, within. I do try to touch others with whatever goodness I have left…I just seem to fail, lately, more often than not. Goodness can be a difficult thing to recover. Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:968484259.928760@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> For some strange reason, I think that the dream can be fulfilled, > that what you really want, if it’s not asking too much, can be realised? > I guess I like to keep hope alive, rather than not have any at all… > I simply cannot understand, why the goodness in one person cannot > touch another. People have so many walls and fears, that it > keeps people away. > Your opinion is fine – I guess it’s felt by many people here, > that feel likewise, that it’s their experience too? > Harvey > In article <8pcebk$8f…@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, eeyor…@mindspring.com > says… > >Sigh…of course, I must offer my opinion…never can keep my mouth shut… > >> >Is it so naive > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > >Yes…because when that dream fades, or is killed, it makes your existence > >that much more devastating. I know that’s a depressing thought, but > >nevertheless, that’s how it looks from my little corner…no positive > >thoughts live here, for very long. > >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message > >news:968472480.623273@Chaos.es.co.nz… > >> Corrected below > >> In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>,
kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> >> says… > >> >Oh how I wish tonight > >> >upon a starry sky > >> >upon a lone star > >> >in the darkest night, > >> >that my one wish will come true. > >> >To dream of the one > >> >out there, wishing the same wish > >> >to be with someone dear and true > >> >to become one’s lover > >> >in love and romance > >> >forever? > >> >That upon that one star > >> >she is wishing too > >> >that when she sees me > >> >she will recognise in me > >> >the kismet of two > >> >destined to meet? > >> >Is it so naive > >> >to dream of a storybook romance > >> >in which two souls > >> >make the committment > >> >to love each other forever > >> >and live with the hope and dream > >> >that it will happen. > >> >And so anything is possible > >> >so that it does happen. > >> >No, the sky is not dark > >> >and clear, > >> >it’s the middle of the afternoon, > >> >grey and raining. > >> >I can still wish upon a star > >> >that is in my heart > >> >waiting for my true love. > >> >Harvey
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Sigh…of course, I must offer my opinion…never can keep my mouth shut… > >Is it so naive > >to dream of a storybook romance
Yes…because when that dream fades, or is killed, it makes your existence that much more devastating. I know that’s a depressing thought, but nevertheless, that’s how it looks from my little corner…no positive thoughts live here, for very long. Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:968472480.623273@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Corrected below > In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz > says… > >Oh how I wish tonight > >upon a starry sky > >upon a lone star > >in the darkest night, > >that my one wish will come true. > >To dream of the one > >out there, wishing the same wish > >to be with someone dear and true > >to become one’s lover > >in love and romance > >forever? > >That upon that one star > >she is wishing too > >that when she sees me > >she will recognise in me > >the kismet of two > >destined to meet? > >Is it so naive > >to dream of a storybook romance > >in which two souls > >make the committment > >to love each other forever > >and live with the hope and dream > >that it will happen. > >And so anything is possible > >so that it does happen. > >No, the sky is not dark > >and clear, > >it’s the middle of the afternoon, > >grey and raining. > >I can still wish upon a star > >that is in my heart > >waiting for my true love. > >Harvey
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For some strange reason, I think that the dream can be fulfilled, that what you really want, if it’s not asking too much, can be realised? I guess I like to keep hope alive, rather than not have any at all… I simply cannot understand, why the goodness in one person cannot touch another. People have so many walls and fears, that it keeps people away. Your opinion is fine – I guess it’s felt by many people here, that feel likewise, that it’s their experience too? Harvey In article <8pcebk$8f…@slb7.atl.mindspring.net>, eeyor…@mindspring.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Sigh…of course, I must offer my opinion…never can keep my mouth shut… >> >Is it so naive >> >to dream of a storybook romance >Yes…because when that dream fades, or is killed, it makes your existence >that much more devastating. I know that’s a depressing thought, but >nevertheless, that’s how it looks from my little corner…no positive >thoughts live here, for very long. >Your Name Here = Harvey <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:968472480.623273@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> Corrected below >> In article <968468621.568…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz >> says… >> >Oh how I wish tonight >> >upon a starry sky >> >upon a lone star >> >in the darkest night, >> >that my one wish will come true. >> >To dream of the one >> >out there, wishing the same wish >> >to be with someone dear and true >> >to become one’s lover >> >in love and romance >> >forever? >> >That upon that one star >> >she is wishing too >> >that when she sees me >> >she will recognise in me >> >the kismet of two >> >destined to meet? >> >Is it so naive >> >to dream of a storybook romance >> >in which two souls >> >make the committment >> >to love each other forever >> >and live with the hope and dream >> >that it will happen. >> >And so anything is possible >> >so that it does happen. >> >No, the sky is not dark >> >and clear, >> >it’s the middle of the afternoon, >> >grey and raining. >> >I can still wish upon a star >> >that is in my heart >> >waiting for my true love. >> >Harvey
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Um, there is always a greater picture, in which our personality only sees a small part. Our soul knows more – and we know only a little about our own soul. Imagine the analogy of zooming out to some distant star, and looking back at your life here – then not only your life, but the interactions and ties that are around you. We can zoom out more and more — seeing more and more. Who your children really are – what other connections they have with you. But in essence – everyone chooses to be born here, in this life, including you. Harvey In article <39cf60f…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com>, unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Harvey.. >um.. my children did not choose to be born.. I chose to have them.. God gave >me freewill >and not all spirits are reborn.. but I do believe some are >maybe to have a chance to do something in our lives on earth, rather than >just talk about it >Pamela >"Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message >news:969767841.1363@Chaos.es.co.nz… >> I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. >> If you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. >> Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – in >> a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have >> the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any >> odds you have against you. >> Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have it. >> Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each other >> to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only >> temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. >> You will go home to a better place. >> If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. >> If you have awareness – use it to find the truth. >> If you want to find the answer – go in search of the truth. >> Harvey >> In article <200009232155.PAA16…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org >says… >> >x-no-archive: yes >> >In article 39cd1b1…@zfree.co.nz, Harvey KT at kiwilove…@yahoo.co.nz >> >wrote on 9/23/00 16:05: >> >> The birth process automatically means you have agreed to be here, and >> >> undertake whatever lessons you have to go through >> >The birth process means only that you were conceived and born. Doesn’t >mean >> >you "agreed" to anything. One doesn’t agree to things when one is a >twinkle >> >in the eye, a collection of cells, or a speechless milk-sucking machine. >> >Unless things work differently on Saturn, which may be where you’re >coming >> >from with this. It’s hard to tell sometimes. >> >One can only agree to remain here. Not the same thing at all, is it? >> >– >> >For more information about this posting service, contact: >> >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >> >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >> >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Harvey.. um.. my children did not choose to be born.. I chose to have them.. God gave me freewill and not all spirits are reborn.. but I do believe some are maybe to have a chance to do something in our lives on earth, rather than just talk about it Pamela "Your Name Here = Harvey" <kiwilove100_…@yahoo.co.nz> wrote in message news:969767841.1363@Chaos.es.co.nz… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. > If you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. > Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – in > a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have > the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any > odds you have against you. > Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have it. > Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each other > to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only > temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. > You will go home to a better place. > If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. > If you have awareness – use it to find the truth. > If you want to find the answer – go in search of the truth. > Harvey > In article <200009232155.PAA16…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… > >x-no-archive: yes > >In article 39cd1b1…@zfree.co.nz, Harvey KT at kiwilove…@yahoo.co.nz > >wrote on 9/23/00 16:05: > >> The birth process automatically means you have agreed to be here, and > >> undertake whatever lessons you have to go through > >The birth process means only that you were conceived and born. Doesn’t mean > >you "agreed" to anything. One doesn’t agree to things when one is a twinkle > >in the eye, a collection of cells, or a speechless milk-sucking machine. > >Unless things work differently on Saturn, which may be where you’re coming > >from with this. It’s hard to tell sometimes. > >One can only agree to remain here. Not the same thing at all, is it? > >– > >For more information about this posting service, contact: > >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. > >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: > >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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I was talking about the birth process from the spiritual perspective. If you’re a skeptic you will not agree with it – like a friend of mine. Spirits [we are all spirits here, in human bodies] choose to be born – in a particular life situation that is known. You have freewill – you have the capacity to complete your mission successfully here. Overcome any odds you have against you. Every spirit has eternal life. It is not earned or given. We all have it. Some [or most?] people have a very hard life here. We can help each other to understand life here. I think it helps to know that life is only temporary here. You will be released from this life one day – death. You will go home to a better place. If you have intelligence – use it to find the truth. If you have awareness – use it to find the truth. If you want to find the answer – go in search of the truth. Harvey In article <200009232155.PAA16…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >In article 39cd1b1…@zfree.co.nz, Harvey KT at kiwilove…@yahoo.co.nz >wrote on 9/23/00 16:05: >> The birth process automatically means you have agreed to be here, and >> undertake whatever lessons you have to go through >The birth process means only that you were conceived and born. Doesn’t mean >you "agreed" to anything. One doesn’t agree to things when one is a twinkle >in the eye, a collection of cells, or a speechless milk-sucking machine. >Unless things work differently on Saturn, which may be where you’re coming >from with this. It’s hard to tell sometimes. >One can only agree to remain here. Not the same thing at all, is it? >– >For more information about this posting service, contact: >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Sorry I do not know your history. I only read a few posts in this Newsgroup. I know that my life cannot equal that of someone else who may have experienced real pain and suffering in their life. Mine might seem to be like a Sunday picnic in comparison. Seek the spiritual answer – and it will answer all your queries and questions – seek the truth out. It is from that perspective I write – no, I have not had the experiences consciously to verify what I write. I believe that truth is the one and the same. The birth process automatically means you have agreed to be here, and undertake whatever lessons you have to go through – yes, even pain and suffering. Some people can turn pain and suffering around – we all have to do that. Turn whatever disadvantages we have – to an advantage. Learn from it. Let not our worst experiences break us, but to make us. So easy to write it, but incredibly hard to act on it, when you need to. Everything does have a purpose – but we can’t see it, from our current point of view. Your life does have a purpose, we all have one and more. And all of us are suppose to be here. There are no mistakes. You don’t accidentally get born. There are no accidents. The worse accidents serve their purpose. Harvey In article <200009231250.GAA21…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >In article 969682039.845…@Chaos.es.co.nz, Your Name Here = Harvey at >kiwilove_nospample…@es.co.nz wrote on 9/22/00 23:07: >> Death is not the terror and black angel as it is painted out to be — >> but neither should it be an easy way out. That it is not. We all have >> obligations here – if not, then you should find them. >I should find an excuse for living so I can justify a painful existence? >Because??? >> Because we all have a purpose here – a positive one. >We all have a positive purpose? You might want to rethink that. Check out >some history first. >> The reason why we agreed to be here in the first place. >No one "agreed" to be here. I certainly didn’t.
http://www.zfree.co.nz My homepage is at: http://members.tripod.com/~plain2
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I’ve been thinking of death of late – my death. And I know now, there are 3 ways I’d like to go – to fulfill some conditions and obligations of mine. And I’m going of 3 ways and not any other. Suicide is not one of them – it never will be, ie. an obvious case of it. Death is not the terror and black angel as it is painted out to be — but neither should it be an easy way out. That it is not. We all have obligations here – if not, then you should find them. Because we all have a purpose here – a positive one. The reason why we agreed to be here in the first place. Harvey In article <200009171621.KAA01…@asarian-host.org>, p…@asarian-host.org says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->x-no-archive: yes >In article 39c4e7f…@spamkiller.newsfeeds.com, Unicorn at >unicorn_4_ma…@yahoo.com wrote on 9/17/00 10:36: >> though I wish on a star almost every night for someone I know needs a >> wish.. I don’t wish for me. >I sometimes wish for my death. I figure that will benefit everyone. >– >For more information about this posting service, contact: >h…@asarian-host.org — for all info about our server. >If you want an anonymous account, visit our sign-up page: >http://asarian-host.org/emailform.html
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Recently I had a female come round to my attire and it was certainly a test of strength, i almost let my mind slip when this female was coming onto me, I had to let her know the situation. I am sure you know that meditation and concentration can beat the senses. But I sympathise with you, It so happenned to that my senses the girl was not that sexually attractive, she was ok to my senses so it was not too hard, If the girl had been very attractive I do not know whether i would have succeeded in surpressing my desires. I too had doubts about the celebacy, then i realised if I had doubts about that I was doubting all I had learned so far, it is painful but i try not to look back or dwell on the past, the future comes so quickly. I am trying not to want anything, and what a thing to want or enjoy sexual pleasure is. It will be hard I’ll keep you posted
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I find that attachement to women and weakness for women to be something that is not easy to overcome and in a way I don’t want to free myself of women and not have any relationships with women. It seems to me that avoiding women yet masterbating from time to time is worse than having relationships with women, yet relationships can also be difficult and involve pain. I used to meditate that beautifull women die and their bodies are destroyed but sometimes felt funny about that kind of meditation and it was often hard to get certain women off of my mind. There is also the issue of loneliness.
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life moves on…. nothing in your life is forever!!!! move on…. richard – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text – I find that attachement to women and weakness for women to be something that is not easy to overcome and in a way I don’t want to free myself of women and not have any relationships with women. It seems to me that avoiding women yet masterbating from time to time is worse than having relationships with women, yet relationships can also be difficult and involve pain. I used to meditate that beautifull women die and their bodies are destroyed but sometimes felt funny about that kind of meditation and it was often hard to get certain women off of my mind. There is also the issue of loneliness.
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Does anyone ever feel so totally and utterly alone, even though they aren’t? Alone in mind, but not in body? I’m sure many of you are feeling that way….. I have no one to be with…. No one to connect with on that divine and spiritual level. Where is my soulmate? How shall I find him? And when? I’m so tired of waiting and waiting. Waiting for my truths and my answers to this complex maze of existence. I don’t belong here…. I belong somewhere, but not here. And I’m tired of being here, tired of being alone. I feel caged, locked down in shackles…. I want my freedom. I’m tired of being ruled by all these laws and it’s like I chained to society. Chained to a place where I don’t belong. I know what I want but I don’t know what I want. When will my truths come to me? The stars have stopped whispering for the time being…. Where is my precious moon? I seem to consult the words of a dear friend:
<snip the rest as it is rather long What can I say except I am in a very similar situation. Although I have given up all hope of ever finding someone (long time ago now), I still don’t like it and it occasionally hurts. We are here for you if you need us, keep posting and I hope things improve. — JP
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<<I have no one to be with…. No one to connect with on that divine and spiritual level. If that’s what you really want, go to church and find him there. Too bad you aren’t looking for an actual human-being man, sigh.
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Does anyone ever feel so totally and utterly alone
yes. it’s the only thing we all have in common. " … there is only one thing that all people possess equally. This is their loneliness. No two people on the face of the earth are alike in any one thing except for their loneliness. This is the cause of our growing, but also the cause of our wars. Love, hate, greed and generosity are all rooted within our loneliness, within our desire to be needed and loved. The only way we can overcome our loneliness is thru touching." "Seven Arrows," Hyemyohsts Storm yes, i feel alone …. but i realize it’s something we all share. nothing is inherently good or bad, i think … it is what we make of it. sometimes we succeed, sometimes we fail … i think failing must be better than nothing … doug
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Holli- You are not alone. We are all there, hiding in the darkness. We hope that no one sees us, no one sees the flaws that we are made up of. We are all flawed and yet, we don’t want to admit it to yourselves. Take pride in yourself, for you are just an individual, one small star in a gigantic sky. Stop holding yourself back looking for the one, because when you are looking, he might walk right by, and you are looking so hard that your eyes just pass right over him. Sweetie, trust me. You can’t focus on the search, you have to focus on yourself, love yourself, before you begin looking. –Jen — "Give me life, give me pain, give me myself again." "She’s been everybody else’s girl, maybe one day she’ll be her own." Before you buy.
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hi Holli, just wanted you to know you’re not alone. I could really relate to your post. take care, Linda
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Does anyone ever feel so totally and utterly alone, even though they aren’t? Alone in mind, but not in body? I’m sure many of you are feeling that way….. I have no one to be with…. No one to connect with on that divine and spiritual level. Where is my soulmate? How shall I find him? And when? I’m so tired of waiting and waiting. Waiting for my truths and my answers to this complex maze of existence. I don’t belong here…. I belong somewhere, but not here. And I’m tired of being here, tired of being alone. I feel caged, locked down in shackles…. I want my freedom. I’m tired of being ruled by all these laws and it’s like I chained to society. Chained to a place where I don’t belong. I know what I want but I don’t know what I want. When will my truths come to me? The stars have stopped whispering for the time being…. Where is my precious moon? I seem to consult the words of a dear friend: As Quoted: "I am at a loss with myself. I dont know who I am again, the spirits who consulted me now flee, and I don’t think I have scared them away. I sometimes believe that I am being led by my own blind stupidity. Led astray again, yet it always seems to be the case. The ladder I am one is a very slippery one indeed. If I could onl go inside myself, change the false, and grow on the truth, maybe I can be what i was destined. The stars shine tonight, yet the light casts a gloomy shadow over me. I yearn to know the truth, and I belive that it has been in my face mocking me for my whole exictince. And I cannot reach out to touch it! I wonder what will come of me later on. . . . . Will I become a slum, living on my own fantasy? I try to push that thought away, but it always comes back, haunting me. I hope very soon that this foolishness with myself will end, for this battle i am fighting, I fear, am losing terribly. I’ve been made weak for my beliefs and what I thought was true. I have so many questions, so many feelings. I can’t form them, becuase the wish to reamin hidden after I have summoned them. Even after danger is gone, they still wish to reamin puzzilng and extreemly perplexed to me. I cannot dwell on this much longer, I fear my head will explode. I am so tired. Sleepy. Maybe if I choose not to stay awake, and lie my head down and rest. Not permanently of course, yet, for a very long time. I wish to see what falters have implanted their virus within my soul. And why it had to be me. I don’t know what sleep it is, all I know is that, I need to clear myself from this horror that I no longer wish to be a apart of. I seek freedom, spiritually, and i never knew that the task would prove to be this harsh, and so very, very cruel. Have I indeed crossed the borders of human thought, walking on the path of the free, or am i leading myself towards insanity?" It’s funny how throughout your whole life you thought no one could ever understand the way you think, the way you feel. Until… suddenly…. someone is there. Someone who thinks so alike you to such a degree. And being around that person feels as it should… This person, as you, who has 2 sides to them. The side that you connect to and the side that seems… aloof, even. And you yearn to sit under the moon, again, with he, and listen to him speak as though the words come directly from inside him. From a place deep inside…. He speaks of the moon, and the stars, and the spirits. I know one day the knowledge will come to me… Just as he knows…. But only…when? The waiting seems endless….. Endless…… Look to the stars and that is where you’ll find me, Holli Danielle
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