Filed under: Overcoming Loneliness
Question:
I’d think the truly nice guy could acquire the characteristics of being exciting and mysterious. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Allan C Cybulskie wrote: > "Gilgamesh" <gilgamesh.sote…@gmail.com> wrote in message > news:1105873574.143660.20430@z14g2000cwz.googlegroups.com… >>The nice guy vs. jerk debate has always been thriving on the >>misunderstanding (or rather: ambiguity) of what a nice guy really is. >>Are nice guys the ones who are being nice by being doormats, pleasers >>and clingers (non-assertive)? At most, this type of ‘nice guys’ will >>become friends with the girls. But it will be an uneven relationship. I >>am sure quite a few ASS guys have been there. >>Or are nice guys those that are being nice by maintaining a high level >>of respect for themselves and for others? People who represent a high >>level of integrity and assertiveness. Friendly but firm. It would be >>nice to be able to be that way, and I think that most women would love >>to date such a man. Perhaps the ASS girls can enlighten me on this >>point? > One thing I’ve noticed is that even this type of man would not be as > desirable to women (likely) as the "player" or "bad boy" because it seems to > me that many women these days are less interested in the solid, stable, and > dependable man and are looking more for someone who can give them > "excitement" (this also seems to be something that people in general are > searching for) which the player and bad boy at least claim to give them. > Too bad that generally comes with a price …
Response:
Confidence is indeed a very loose word. Alot of people think of confidence as being arrogant, full of yourself, outgoing and being an ass. This describes alot of school popular kids. My view of confidence is a person who believes in himself, treats everyone with respect, makes things happen for himself and feels highly relaxed and calm. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Pumpkinhead wrote: >>Guys, you wanna ask a woman if she will go out with a ‘nice guy’? Try >>this: "Would you go out with a man who’s unconfident, > What’s so good about confidence?
Response:
– Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Dolores wrote: > Al Leitch wrote: >> It’s been ages since I’ve posted here. Anyway, one important thing >> I’ve noticed is the issue of women not choosing the nice guys. As many >> guys lament, they ask a woman if she’ll go out with a nice guy and she >> says yes, then she hits up a jerk. Well, it turns out from what I’ve >> read that men and women view the nice guy differently. > -snip- > Hi Al! > I think you’ve written a lot of really insightful stuff, I hope people > here read it and learn from it. With very little rewording it could be > applied to women who are having a hard time with finding "a good man" as > well. > One of the things I hear a lot of in the subtext of various messags is > "I don’t want to work alone to become healthy, I want a partner to seek > me out and fix me". It never works that way, and when an unhealthy > person does find a partner who is willing to "fix" them, the "fixer" > usually has an emotional dependence problem as well, resulting in an > unhealthy, unhappy relationship… or one where, in the rare occasions > that the "fixee" does get emotionally healthy, the "fixer" either leaves > them or freaks out and tries to make them unhealthy again. > -=Lola
Response:
I hate super confident women. Charm is what attracts me. It’s a different thing. I think most people don’t like confident / arrogant people.
Response:
In news:oOydnRE1BZegLnfcRVn-ig@comcast.com, Dolores <weaselpant…@sinmonkey.com> wrote : > Gilgamesh wrote: > > Are nice guys the ones who are being nice by being doormats, > > pleasers and clingers (non-assertive)? At most, this type of ‘nice > > guys’ will become friends with the girls. But it will be an uneven > > relationship. I am sure quite a few ASS guys have been there. > I have had a few friends who will not stand up for themselves… it’s > really frustrating, and also they were very, very angry people who > simply can’t express their anger directly. It gets bottled up. When > they were in relationships they got trod on and treated very badly, > and that didn’t help them to either learn to express themselves or to > develop a very realistic view of women and relationships.
It works for most nice girls. > That is the kind of person I think of when I think of "nice". Someone > who is honest yet gentle, who doesn’t always give in to what they > think other people want, but who will compromise and make allowances > for other people’s preferences, while still voicing their own.
IOW, you like perfect people. Yeah, everyone likes them… Doesn’t solve our problem. —
Question:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P <d…@email.me> writes: > Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:87k7h8wh42.fsf@homer.cghm: > >> I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about > >> how much I actually dislike most people that I have encountered > >> in the world, especially people in groups. > > Yeah. > > 1) lighten up 2) ever been popular? people are more fun when they > > like you 3) how much of your experience with groups was in primary > > school? > >> I don’t want to be part of any group. > > ANY group? > I don’t think I’ve ever found a group dynamic in real life that I > liked at all. Situations with one other person, or maybe two, sure, > [...] You can say "lighten up", but it’s just been my experience > that I much prefer always to be thinking about something or > analyzing something.
I don’t understand the connection between that and the size of a group. — Can’t we just be strangers?
Response:
Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:87el75q41d.fsf@homer.cghm: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> William P <d…@email.me> writes: >> Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in >> news:87k7h8wh42.fsf@homer.cghm: >> >> I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about >> >> how much I actually dislike most people that I have encountered >> >> in the world, especially people in groups. >> > Yeah. >> > 1) lighten up 2) ever been popular? people are more fun when they >> > like you 3) how much of your experience with groups was in primary >> > school? >> >> I don’t want to be part of any group. >> > ANY group? >> I don’t think I’ve ever found a group dynamic in real life that I >> liked at all. Situations with one other person, or maybe two, sure, >> [...] You can say "lighten up", but it’s just been my experience >> that I much prefer always to be thinking about something or >> analyzing something. > I don’t understand the connection between that and the size of a > group.
Oh I don’t know. It seemed like you were trying to say that lightening up was a step towards understanding why groups can be fun. I do hear this a lot, and I don’t agree that it’s for everyone! I don’t like lightening up. I know there are groups out there that are made up of people who like to think and analyze a lot. I’ve just never found a real life group dynamic for that which I’ve enjoyed. My experience even suggests that I don’t have fun in a group of people where I have fun one on one with any given individual member!
Response:
- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -William P <d…@email.me> writes: > Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in > news:87el75q41d.fsf@homer.cghm: > > William P <d…@email.me> writes: > >> I don’t think I’ve ever found a group dynamic in real life that I > >> liked at all. Situations with one other person, or maybe two, > >> sure, [...] You can say "lighten up", but it’s just been my > >> experience that I much prefer always to be thinking about > >> something or analyzing something. > > I don’t understand the connection between that and the size of a > > group. > Oh I don’t know. It seemed like you were trying to say that > lightening up was a step towards understanding why groups can be > fun.
Oh, I was, although it was of course addressed to OP. > I do hear this a lot, and I don’t agree that it’s for everyone!
Well, I don’t know everyone. I know I used to think somewhat like OP before adopting the attitude I described to him. > I don’t like lightening up.
Is that really true? I just read your post about smileys… > I know there are groups out there that are made up of people who > like to think and analyze a lot. I’ve just never found a real life > group dynamic for that which I’ve enjoyed.
Why is that, do you think? — Can’t we just be strangers?
Response:
Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:87d6mpobca.fsf@homer.cghm: >> Oh I don’t know. It seemed like you were trying to say that >> lightening up was a step towards understanding why groups can be >> fun. > Oh, I was, although it was of course addressed to OP. >> I do hear this a lot, and I don’t agree that it’s for everyone! > Well, I don’t know everyone. I know I used to think somewhat like OP > before adopting the attitude I described to him.
Fair enough, I was kind of knee jerk on that. "Lighten up" and things like that I heard a lot when growing up, and it felt more like a dominance game than anything else. >> I don’t like lightening up. > Is that really true? I just read your post about smileys…
Good question, I don’t know if it’s really true! A lot of what I post online is pretty light. >> I know there are groups out there that are made up of people who >> like to think and analyze a lot. I’ve just never found a real life >> group dynamic for that which I’ve enjoyed. > Why is that, do you think?
Hmm, maybe it is the case that I’ve never enjoyed it because I’ve never become good at it. I don’t think it’s because of being tense. Maybe feeling generally socially outgunned by most of the group, as in not really being able to keep up with the fluency and amount of talking done by the other people, so I always feel less a part of the group than the others. That and often feeling bored of what other people are talking about, and really wanting to actually be doing something, rather than group conversation which often seems aimless to me. I don’t feel like I’m missing anything. I’m sure other people do have a lot of fun in groups, but I’ve just found I have preferred just doing things with myself or one other person at a time. I have enjoyed non- conversation centered activities in groups before, like when I used to play Magic: The Gathering a lot.
Response:
Bryan <s…@aol.com> wrote in message <news:VA.00000038.004b702c@elf.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com>… > You are probably here because you would like to overcome this "problem" > of shyness. But why does it bother you? What are you after that shyness > seems to prevent you from having? What is it that you think being less > shy would get you? > I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how much > I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the world, > especially people in groups.
Well, as an ex-shy, I find I like not feeling compelled to dislike people as a self-protective measure.
Response:
Real Ketchup <real_ketc…@yahoo.com> wrote in news:87k7h8wh42.fsf@homer.cghm: >> I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how >> much I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the >> world, especially people in groups. > Yeah. > 1) lighten up > 2) ever been popular? people are more fun when they like you > 3) how much of your experience with groups was in primary school? >> I don’t want to be part of any group. > ANY group?
I don’t think I’ve ever found a group dynamic in real life that I liked at all. Situations with one other person, or maybe two, sure, but I don’t think I’ve ever been at a party or a bar and not been extremely bored and wanting to go home! I don’t think it’s much to do with people not liking me, more that what most people find fun just isn’t interesting for me. When I have had several friends, and have been invited to things like parties, I always found myself finding reasons not to go, and it wasn’t because I was anxious about it at all. You can say "lighten up", but it’s just been my experience that I much prefer always to be thinking about something or analyzing something. So I think it is possible to be far enough over on the introverted curve that group socialization really doesn’t have any benefits. I still think that being able to deal with people is a good skill to get. For instance, I think if I could do the school thing all over again now (when it would be something for me and not my parents) I would be the sort of person who would go and talk to professors about stuff and what they’re researching and ideas, and things like that.
Response:
"FrankC" <speeedofso…@hotmail.com> writes: > I read it in a French translation, but Nietzsche has said > something like: > "when people are in a group, their intelligences are not added, but > divided"
Obviously he was no mathematician. — Can’t we just be strangers?
Response:
"Bryan" <s…@aol.com> wrote in message
news:VA.00000038.004b702c@elf.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com… > You are probably here because you would like to overcome this "problem" > of shyness. But why does it bother you?
Occasional loneliness. > What are you after that shyness > seems to prevent you from having?
Company every now and then. > What is it that you think being less > shy would get you?
Friends. Making contact. The warmth of people who genuinely care about you. > I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how much > I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the world, > especially people in groups. For most of my life I have noticed that > people really do act like herd animals while in groups and that many > people are, at least mentally, always in a group. Of course the object > of this game is to be "popular", to be well liked by the rest of the > herd. I guess that’s supposed to offer some reward.
Sometimes the goal is just to be included. To be moving around doing something in the company of other people rather than being alone constantly. > I don’t want to be part of any group. I don’t want to have anything to > do with "groupthink" or "group reality" (consensus reality?). I have > always avoided groups because I noticed that, once in a group, people > seem to lose whatever individuality they had to start with. I guess it > has also frightened me a bit, because it was completely non-rational > and hence unpredictable. That people were willing to follow Adolf > Hitler or Pol Pot, to become like brainwashed drones, is not surprising > to me at all. It seems essential to our species. For most humans, group > reality *is* reality.
Re: Hitler. It’s a bit more complex than that. I see the point you were trying to make, but it is. The German people were poor and becoming poorer, starving. Hitler and his group were opportunists who lied to a vulnerable people and they believed him because they wanted to be saved. He kept his power in large way by deception and facade. I’m sure there were those who were swept along with the crowd and loved it, but I don’t think they were the majority. Anyway… > I am still trying to figure out what it is about most people that makes > me hate them, but I think at least part of it, is that whole group > dynamic thing. Another part may be that most people don’t seem very > thoughtful. It is not that they are stupid. It is that they don’t seem > to want to think as an individual, apart from their group.
They don’t want to put forth the effort. Life is hard enough. Being a leader is harder. Some people don’t have the mental/emotional strength. Some people plain don’t want it. It’s easier to follow. When things go wrong it’s not your fault. > I live in America, and I hate my culture. I have been affected by it > too, and it is like a poison. I don’t know to what extent people are > different in other cultures. Perhaps there are other cultures that are > more individualistic and thoughtful.
Hm. I suggest you travel and if possible live in another culture for a time before you adopt such a hard line against your own. If you’ve done this already, what are your thoughts? > I don’t see the point of socializing. I don’t want to know the vast > majority of the people out there. I’m sure there are some rare > exceptions, but I don’t know how to find them, certainly not at any > kind of social gathering or social group. Those who are part of that > whole group thing will think this is yet another instance of "sour > grapes", of a social outcast or "loser" who is trying to reject before > being rejected. I know this because I understand the group reality. I > grew up in it and understand how it works. There is nothing that I > could say to such a person. It’s just a part of the reality of the > group, a definition of what is possible in that group world and what is > not and rejecting the group as such is not within the realm of > "possible".
I agree with this completely. You have to sift a lot of sand before you get the gold. Tiring work. > BTW, I am familiar with the motivation of acquiring a girlfriend that > seems essential to so many of the males here. That was my only > motivation for overcoming shyness, that it made me less attractive to > most women. I have since discovered other solutions to that problem > which seem to work.
Mind posting what those solutions are?
Response:
Bryan <s…@aol.com> writes: > You are probably here because you would like to overcome this > "problem" of shyness. But why does it bother you? What are you after > that shyness seems to prevent you from having? What is it that you > think being less shy would get you?
I’m not shy. > I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how > much I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the > world, especially people in groups.
Yeah. 1) lighten up 2) ever been popular? people are more fun when they like you 3) how much of your experience with groups was in primary school? > I don’t want to be part of any group.
ANY group? > I am still trying to figure out what it is about most people that > makes me hate them, but I think at least part of it, is that whole > group dynamic thing. Another part may be that most people don’t seem > very thoughtful. It is not that they are stupid. It is that they > don’t seem to want to think as an individual, apart from their > group.
Well, don’t underestimate how much is due to stupidity on the account of politeness. > I don’t see the point of socializing.
See (1). > I’m sure there are some rare exceptions, but I don’t know how to > find them, certainly not at any kind of social gathering or social > group.
Surely it would be easier to find them if you weren’t shy. You need to realize that no individual is going to satisfy every need you have in a relationship (of the general sort; friend, girlfriend, family, etc). You may be smarter and more independent than 99% of the population, but even supposing you surrounded yourself with similar individuals, most of the time it wouldn’t make much of a difference. IOW, you may need friends to satisfy your intellectual or independent side, but not every relationship has to; it’s not the only side you have, and those aren’t your only needs. — Can’t we just be strangers?
Response:
"Xile" <cos…@marihuana.ro> wrote in message
news:eb213e64.0301121914.6c57a143@posting.google.com… > Bryan <s…@aol.com> wrote in message
<news:VA.00000038.004b702c@elf.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> > You are probably here because you would like to overcome this "problem" > > of shyness. But why does it bother you? What are you after that shyness > > seems to prevent you from having? What is it that you think being less > > shy would get you? > > I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how much > > I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the world, > > especially people in groups. For most of my life I have noticed that > > people really do act like herd animals while in groups and that many > > people are, at least mentally, always in a group. Of course the object > > of this game is to be "popular", to be well liked by the rest of the > > herd. I guess that’s supposed to offer some reward. > > I don’t want to be part of any group. I don’t want to have anything to > > do with "groupthink" or "group reality" (consensus reality?). I have > > always avoided groups because I noticed that, once in a group, people > > seem to lose whatever individuality they had to start with. I guess it > > has also frightened me a bit, because it was completely non-rational > > and hence unpredictable. That people were willing to follow Adolf > > Hitler or Pol Pot, to become like brainwashed drones, is not surprising > > to me at all. It seems essential to our species. For most humans, group > > reality *is* reality. > > I am still trying to figure out what it is about most people that makes > > me hate them, but I think at least part of it, is that whole group > > dynamic thing. Another part may be that most people don’t seem very > > thoughtful. It is not that they are stupid. It is that they don’t seem > > to want to think as an individual, apart from their group. > > Think about the difference between a Hollywood film, created in an > > obvious, artless way, just to make as much money as possible by trying > > to please the majority in a predictable way and that rare film created > > to show you something and get you to think about it, created without > > any thought of pleasing you, created as an end in itself. Which movie > > will make more money and what does that imply about us as a species? > > I live in America, and I hate my culture. I have been affected by it > > too, and it is like a poison. I don’t know to what extent people are > > different in other cultures. Perhaps there are other cultures that are > > more individualistic and thoughtful. > > I don’t see the point of socializing. I don’t want to know the vast > > majority of the people out there. I’m sure there are some rare > > exceptions, but I don’t know how to find them, certainly not at any > > kind of social gathering or social group. Those who are part of that > > whole group thing will think this is yet another instance of "sour > > grapes", of a social outcast or "loser" who is trying to reject before > > being rejected. I know this because I understand the group reality. I > > grew up in it and understand how it works. There is nothing that I > > could say to such a person. It’s just a part of the reality of the > > group, a definition of what is possible in that group world and what is > > not and rejecting the group as such is not within the realm of > > "possible". > > BTW, I am familiar with the motivation of acquiring a girlfriend that > > seems essential to so many of the males here. That was my only > > motivation for overcoming shyness, that it made me less attractive to > > most women. I have since discovered other solutions to that problem > > which seem to work. I am more interested in other motives. [Also, I do > > appreciate the irony of posting this to a group.] Thanks in advance for > > any genuine replies. > I am not here to get "cured" of shyness, i’m here to be with other > people who share the same thing, i want to live with it, to find a > balance so i can live a pleasent if not normal life, have a gf, not > wait 30 min outside a door before i get in, etc. All this without > changeing the "essence" of me (which i feel is inseparable from my shy > self). > I also think i understand groups and group dynamics, but i think i’m > wise enough to understand a group’s role and accept it. While i’m > almost incapable of "instinctual" social interaction, i do it because > i understand the role of it in society, and make a rational decision > to be in a group (with people i like). > Unlike most people don’t belive in the "most people are stupid and > suck (except me and those i like)" theory. The funny thing is most > people seem to belive it, regardless of their own intelligence, it’s > like most people need to think in term of "masses" are incapable of > accepting that there are millions of people just as complex and > intelligent as themselves.
I for one believe in the "most people suck (including me and those I like(although the set of those I like has a population of 0 anyway))" theory, so sure there are millions of people as complex and intelligent as me, but that hardly means I want to be anywhere near them.
Response:
this post irritates the hell out of me. i actually like most people. i want to be with people. sure i need my space, but i love being with other people and it is frustrating that i struggle so much in my interactions with them. i don’t want to be shy because i am so inhibited, so restricted. i miss out on life. what is the point of a life in isolation from other people? you miss all the things that make life great. people who don’t like other people really piss me off. give people a chance. most people may be clueless but most are not evil. get off your high horse and try to face life instead of avoiding it. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Bryan <s…@aol.com> wrote in message <news:VA.00000038.004b702c@elf.sbo.ma.cable.rcn.com>… > You are probably here because you would like to overcome this "problem" > of shyness. But why does it bother you? What are you after that shyness > seems to prevent you from having? What is it that you think being less > shy would get you? > I am asking this because I have been ruminating recently about how much > I actually dislike most people that I have encountered in the world, > especially people in groups. For most of my life I have noticed that > people really do act like herd animals while in groups and that many > people are, at least mentally, always in a group. Of course the object > of this game is to be "popular", to be well liked by the rest of the > herd. I guess that’s supposed to offer some reward. > I don’t want to be part of any group. I don’t want to have anything to > do with "groupthink" or "group reality" (consensus reality?). I have > always avoided groups because I noticed that, once in a group, people > seem to lose whatever individuality they had to start with. I guess it > has also frightened me a bit, because it was completely non-rational > and hence unpredictable. That people were willing to follow Adolf > Hitler or Pol Pot, to become like brainwashed drones, is not surprising > to me at all. It seems essential to our species. For most humans, group > reality *is* reality. > I am still trying to figure out what it is about most people that makes > me hate them, but I think at least part of it, is that whole group > dynamic thing. Another part may be that most people don’t seem very > thoughtful. It is not that they are stupid. It is that they don’t seem > to want to think as an individual, apart from their group. > Think about the difference between a Hollywood film, created in an > obvious, artless way, just to make as much money as possible by trying > to please the majority in a predictable way and that rare film created > to show you something and get you to think about it, created without > any thought of pleasing you, created as an end in itself. Which movie > will make more money and what does that imply about us as a species? > I live in America, and I hate my culture. I have been affected by it > too, and it is like a poison. I don’t know to what extent people are > different in other cultures. Perhaps there are other cultures that are > more individualistic and thoughtful. > I don’t see the point of socializing. I don’t want to know the vast > majority of the people out there. I’m sure there are some rare > exceptions, but I don’t know how to find them, certainly not at any > kind of social gathering or social group. Those who are part of that > whole group thing will think this is yet another instance of "sour > grapes", of a social outcast or "loser" who is trying to reject before > being rejected. I know this because I understand the group reality. I > grew up in it and understand how it works. There is nothing that I > could say to such a person. It’s just a part of the reality of the > group, a definition of what is possible in that group world and what is > not and rejecting the group as such is not within the realm of > "possible". > BTW, I am familiar with the motivation of acquiring a girlfriend that > seems essential to so many of the males here. That was my only > motivation for overcoming shyness, that it made me less attractive to > most women. I have since discovered other solutions to that problem > which seem to work. I am more interested in other motives. [Also, I do > appreciate the irony of posting this to a group.] Thanks in advance for > any genuine replies.
Response:
"Xile" <cos…@marihuana.ro> a
Question:
Rainbow Knight wrote in message … >Hi Ric and Richard! >Or Ric and Ric?
I’m thinking of changing my name to ricc just to be more uniquely identifyable >Welcome to ASL, Richard. >I’ll not ricall you to read the FAQ. Actually, >your suggestion to "not read posts that make >you angry" is a netiquette tip consistent with >its content.
I believe it is an essential skill everyone need to learn in order to be a supportive and constructive member of any group, be it group of friends or support group, but especially in a support group where people are bound to discuss delicate emotions that might offend or be too close to comfort for some… to respect everyone’s right to open up and discuss their feelings freely is basic common sense if we’re to help each other… >You both make some good points and I agree with some. >OTOH, my analysis of the specific issue of this thread >was different. I will also focus now on deviations of >my opinion from Ric’s (and Richard’s too as they sound >pretty alike, let aside the name <giggle>).
will these be standard deviations? 
>On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:12 -0500 "ric" wrote: >> you’re a welcome addition to my reading Richard >I agree on this one. ;o) >> if we guess that the common thread bringing most everyone here >> is the word and experience "loneliness" then perhaps it’s not >> so surprising that the group is not the model of functional >> social behaviour… I mean, if we were all able bodied skilled >> social being, we’d probably not be lonely… >Wait. This is an oversimplification, as it applies to some but >not to all. Lack of social skills, one way or another, is a >typical cause but far from being the sole. Let me remind a >couple of further "classes of cases".
definitely true, I simplified a lot… my attempt not to step on toes definitely makes for a shallow perspective, but I would not wish a repeat of previous misinterpretations so I stay shallow and as general as possible for now… I’ll discuss things in more depth in other forums… >1. Loneliness consequent to unwanted physical/geographical isolation. >Perhaps the most common is that of the homebound (maybe consequent to >an accident or illness that took place during adulthood). >In this case, being *not* used to loneliness from youth is >supposedly not an advantage. >Also, such situations *may* be permanent.
agreed >2. Loneliness due to a different nature/attitude/culture/interests >with respect to surrounding people. This is less easy to recognize >as such, but not less real and I think it is not that rare. Pretty >common among artists and phylosophers.
agreed >You see, we’ve boxed a number of people, a category that, >considering both cultural and individual differences, let >aside alternative reason that took them here, is not only >wide, but very scattered.
agreed >At a first glance, the expression "group for loneliness" is >almost an oxymoron as "leaders of anarchists". In reality, >this is the less focused NG of the category alt.support. >What we have all in common? A word that is not meant by >everybody the same way.
agreed >This is the reason because one cannot expect a very >compact forum. Attempts to make it like this may be >counterproductive. This does not mean that we should >give up in improving the group, only that this >polymorphic nature should be taken into account.
agreed >Actually, the last remark sounds again in agreement >with Ric, who also adds: >> in this world there nobody can please everyone… >> tolerance for differences and forgiveness of trasspasses >> are two skills very necessary to be social beings… >ATB >Raffaele
thanks for responding Raff… and thanks for the creativity and information and work you put into your websites and the cooperative work that is bringing good people and good web-work together… I encourage everyone to check out your sites and join the webring (for more information feel free to contact me privately honest love, ric "love while you can, cry when you have to be who you are, that’s a part of the plan await your arrival with simple survival and one day we’ll all understand… " ~ Dan Fogelberg ~ >Remove MAPS from the address to reply. > *** Homepage *** ><http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/> > *** ASL RAF FAQ *** ><http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/aslfaq.html>
.. ..
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Hey guys, after you explain that one, could someone then define what a "pot stirring troublemaker" is? Thanks, NMB Gina wrote: > Say….could someone define "SPAM" for me ? I know it has been talked about > before, but I’m not real sure what actually constitutes "spam" in a newsgroup. > Thanks. > Smiles, > Gina > http://hometown.aol.com//lawdawga/HomePpage.html > *Visit ASLFAQ’s FAQ Page* > http://members.aol.com/aslfaq
——–== Posted Anonymously via Newsfeeds.Com ==——- Featuring the worlds only Anonymous Usenet Server ———–== http://www.newsfeeds.com ==———-
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Perhaps some do,but not everyone blames you Pamela. Scott Pamela wrote:
Blame me.. it seems many do anyway.. and you don’t wish to understand it all… sometimes ignorance is bliss.. Pamela
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thank you Zella… how are you? life here is pretty hectic with my roommate’s houseguests (one is a 2 year old, and as 2 years olds do, she’s taken over the house)… and I’ll be on the phone waiting on line long distance to clear up car paperwork stuff (switching states isn’t always a smoothe operation)… hopefully it won’t take too long, but that’s the day ahead for me… hope your day is smiling for you honest love, ric "don’t let it get you down it’s only castles burning just find someone who’s learning and you will come around…" ~ Neil Young (paraphrased) ~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Zella wrote in message <38b1683e.5473…@168.0.0.200>… >welcome back, ric >Zella
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Say….could someone define "SPAM" for me ? I know it has been talked about before, but I’m not real sure what actually constitutes "spam" in a newsgroup. Thanks. Smiles, Gina http://hometown.aol.com//lawdawga/HomePpage.html *Visit ASLFAQ’s FAQ Page* http://members.aol.com/aslfaq
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Hi Ric and Richard! Or Ric and Ric? Welcome to ASL, Richard. I’ll not ricall you to read the FAQ. Actually, your suggestion to "not read posts that make you angry" is a netiquette tip consistent with its content. You both make some good points and I agree with some. OTOH, my analysis of the specific issue of this thread was different. I will also focus now on deviations of my opinion from Ric’s (and Richard’s too as they sound pretty alike, let aside the name <giggle>). On Mon, 21 Feb 2000 01:37:12 -0500 "ric" <asl…@REMOVE-CAPS-BEFORE-REPLYegroups.com> wrote: > you’re a welcome addition to my reading Richard
I agree on this one. ;o) > if we guess that the common thread bringing most everyone here > is the word and experience "loneliness" then perhaps it’s not > so surprising that the group is not the model of functional > social behaviour… I mean, if we were all able bodied skilled > social being, we’d probably not be lonely…
<snip> Wait. This is an oversimplification, as it applies to some but not to all. Lack of social skills, one way or another, is a typical cause but far from being the sole. Let me remind a couple of further "classes of cases". 1. Loneliness consequent to unwanted physical/geographical isolation. Perhaps the most common is that of the homebound (maybe consequent to an accident or illness that took place during adulthood). In this case, being *not* used to loneliness from youth is supposedly not an advantage. Also, such situations *may* be permanent. 2. Loneliness due to a different nature/attitude/culture/interests with respect to surrounding people. This is less easy to recognize as such, but not less real and I think it is not that rare. Pretty common among artists and phylosophers. You see, we’ve boxed a number of people, a category that, considering both cultural and individual differences, let aside alternative reason that took them here, is not only wide, but very scattered. At a first glance, the expression "group for loneliness" is almost an oxymoron as "leaders of anarchists". In reality, this is the less focused NG of the category alt.support. What we have all in common? A word that is not meant by everybody the same way. This is the reason because one cannot expect a very compact forum. Attempts to make it like this may be counterproductive. This does not mean that we should give up in improving the group, only that this polymorphic nature should be taken into account. Actually, the last remark sounds again in agreement with Ric, who also adds: <snip> > in this world there nobody can please everyone… > tolerance for differences and forgiveness of trasspasses > are two skills very necessary to be social beings…
<snip> ATB Raffaele Remove MAPS from the address to reply. *** Homepage *** <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/> *** ASL RAF FAQ *** <http://www.angelfire.com/mi/raffaele55/aslfaq.html> — Free audio & video emails, greeting cards and forums Talkway – http://www.talkway.com – Talk more ways (sm)
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welcome back, ric Zella
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>I dont want ot blame anyone Pamela.. really.. I just want everyone to be >happy.. thats why I am worried… >Hugs , Marta
Dear Marta….I didn’t read in any blame in your very caring message…..I did read genuine concern and worry. While it’s my opinion that there are a few responsible for the disruptions…..the fault belongs to no one single person. I’ve been known to bite the bait myself and it always makes me feel so bad and sad after that happens….but it makes me even sadder to see some honest, lonely, caring people being taunted, or their feelings trivialized. It is sometimes a no-win situation…but in the end, the truth of who is and who is not sincere shines brightly. Thank you for helping support to return to ASL. Hugs and Smiles, Gina http://hometown.aol.com//lawdawga/HomePpage.html *Visit ASLFAQ’s FAQ Page* http://members.aol.com/aslfaq
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I dont want ot blame anyone Pamela.. really.. I just want everyone to be happy.. thats why I am worried… Hugs , Marta U
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I’ve got to be one of the loneliest people in the world. I’ve always been shy and overcoming that seems nearly impossible. The worst part of is, I really enjoy being around other people, but the fact of the matter whenever i’m around people I tend to feel uncomfortable and I can’t find the right words to say. I’m always afraid that people are examining me under a microscope and if I say the wrong thing they will be offended. The only way I can really have what I consider to be a worthwhile conversation is if I have a couple drinks (no I’m not an alcoholic). Shyness is such a little word that covers a big problem. I’m not just shy but I have low self esteem, and a lack of social skills. The overwhelming feeling of loneliness makes me unhappy and feeling unhappy makes it very difficult to express the friendliness that I wish to project toward others. After all who wants to be around someone who frowns all the time. People at work are always saying how quiet I am, and although they don’t mean any offense by there words, its kind of disturbing. I’ve heard it over and over though out my life and I hate it. I wish there was some way that I could change. some way that I can feel more confident, more outgoing and just happier, but honestly I don’t know where to start. How do I make myself come across as happy, confident and friendly when that’s not the way I feel. If anyone has any suggestions as to what I should do, I would love to hear them.
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Nathan Williams wrote:
———————— The overwhelming feeling of loneliness makes me unhappy and feeling unhappy makes it very difficult to express the friendliness that I wish to project toward others. After all who wants to be around someone who frowns all the time. <snip> I wish there was some way that I could change. some way that I can feel more confident, more outgoing and just happier, but honestly I don’t know where to start. How do I make myself come across as happy, confident and friendly when that’s not the way I feel. If anyone has any suggestions as to what I should do, I would love to hear them. ———————————– Hello Nathan, Well, there’s no one big thing you can do that will solve all your problems. Fortunately there are many, many little things you can work on to improve your social skills. You do not necessarily have to feel happy and confident to come accross that way, you just have to learn how to fake it. You already know that one of your problems is your constant frowning, I also used to do this a lot and if I don’t watch it I still wear a scowl on my face sometimes. Fortunately this problem is easy enough to correct, just make a conscious decision to smile more often, and whenever you catch yourself frowning force yourself to smile. Smiling, even if forced, will put your mind into a better mood. That is just one small thing you can do, there are countless others such as working on your eye contact, body posture, conversation skills, etc. You can get information on how to do any of these by doing a deja news search on thsi newsgroup or by posting a question on a specific problem you’re having. Anyway, Good Luck, Marlow
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In article <7iqqve$4m4…@newssvr01-int.news.prodigy.com>, "NATHAN E WILLIAMS" <NATHANWILLI…@prodigy.net> wrote: > I wish there was some way that I could change. some way that I > can feel more confident, more outgoing and just happier, but honestly I > don’t know where to start. How do I make myself come across as happy, > confident and friendly when that’s not the way I feel. If anyone has any > suggestions as to what I should do, I would love to hear them.
One method is to watch someone whose social style you admire and emulate him/her. Behave as if you were him or her. I found this helpful in my freshman year, when I had a very aggressive woman as my roommate. Back then I was too shy to call businesses to find out information, or to call professors/TAs when I had a question. I watched the way she did it and tried it myself, and found that it works. Right now I use my extroverted SO, or my Dad to learn how to make small talk. It’s getting better–I can occasionally ask questions now, something I wouldn’t have done two years ago. -yakima
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Nathan, What makes you shy? A big nose? see a plastic surgeon. low IQ? get educated. attack the underlying source of the shyness! If all else fails, just find people shyer than you and ridicule them, it will certainly boost your confidence to the ceiling. There is always someone shyer. I hope this helps. Good Luck! Show no mercy!
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>If all else fails, just find people shyer than >you and ridicule them, it will certainly boost >your confidence to the ceiling. There is >always someone shyer. I hope this helps. >Good Luck! Show no mercy!
Hm, I think you just alienated yourself from 99.9% of the newsgroup. People like you are the reason many of us are shy in the first place. Ridiculing others is pointless, you can’t gain a good friend that way and the only social skills you learn are destructive. Please, if you are not going to ask for help or be helpful, go away. I really hate to use my kill file. wakefi…@hotmail.com
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wakefield wrote:
———————- >If all else fails, just find people shyer than >you and ridicule them, it will certainly boost >your confidence to the ceiling. There is >always someone shyer. I hope this helps. >Good Luck! Show no mercy!
Hm, I think you just alienated yourself from 99.9% of the newsgroup. People like you are the reason many of us are shy in the first place. Ridiculing others is pointless, you can’t gain a good friend that way and the only social skills you learn are destructive. Please, if you are not going to ask for help or be helpful, go away. I really hate to use my kill file. —————————— Um, I’m pretty sure he was joking. Shy people often tend to take jokes the wrong way though……just something to keep in mind. Marlow
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Try meditation and all the New Age stuff. May be a Drama circle? Singing? It’s in you. Seriously. It’s inside, it’s not something you learn, it’s something you discover. Confidence is you, you are confidence. The rest is mere skills. Most people are so used to them they don’t notice it. You think about it too much and it becomes hard almost impossible. How do you talk? God, there’re so many words, so many meanings. How do you walk? Every muscle moves on its own and it’s got to be so coordinated. How do you breathe? Imagine you forget about it just for one second – you’re gonna die. I think one problem with this group might be that blind is leading the blind. Don’t think it’s hard, don’t think it’s complicated but grow. Feel the growth inside until you get Big like an Indian from Flying Over the Cockoos Nest.
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Tue, 01 Jun 1999 23:29:50 alt.support.shyness Thread 66 of 78 Lines 18 Re: life of shyness Respno 4 of 6 wakefi…@hotmail.com wakefield at chaotic > >If all else fails, just find people shyer than > >you and ridicule them, it will certainly boost > >your confidence to the ceiling. There is > >always someone shyer. I hope this helps. > >Good Luck! Show no mercy! > Hm, I think you just alienated yourself from 99.9% of the newsgroup.
I agree. I’m among that 99.9% fed up with his crap. I didn’t mind his desperate pleas for a woman for sex. At least that was an invitation for a mutually pleasurable relationship, even if farfetched. But this about ridiculing the more-shy is really bad. Wed, 02 Jun 1999 13:52:22 alt.support.shyness Thread 66 of 78 Lines 15 Re: life of shyness Respno 6 of 6 and…@freeukNOSPAM.com andrei <<I think one problem with this group might be that blind is leading the blind.>> One thing about a support group is that everyone has similar problems. Some of us find ways to overcome those problems before others, then we share those methods with the others. Shyness is a multitude of inhibitions, making the process more complicated than any single disability, but the basic principle applies to each individual kind of shyness. For example, regarding the inhibition against approaching strangers and speaking to them first, without an invitation from them, I have personally (TTJ) developed a method for gingerly getting started overcoming that inhibition and proceeding to nearly completely overcome it. Regarding comfort chatting with strangers, that comes as a side effect of approaching strangers using my method. We who have discovered or developed a partial cure for one aspect of shyness are not blind regarding that aspect, we are enlightened, and we can then enlighten others.
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>Um, I’m pretty sure he was joking. Shy people often tend to take jokes the >wrong way though……just something to keep in mind.
His other posts suggest that he is in fact serious. Well, there’s another for the killfile.
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Giff13291 schrieb in Nachricht <19990601194959.01857.00002…@ng-ck1.aol.com>… > What makes you shy? A big nose? see >a plastic surgeon.
Reminding me of something concerning the American sense of beauty. So many comics made fun of Paula Jones’s nose she finally had it surgically removed. Did YOU find her ugly? I didn’t. OK, they had those unflattering images of her freezeframed in mid-astonishment, but I guess you could find uncool images of everyone somewhere within a few minutes video footage. I’m not venturing or asking for any opinion on whether what she went in public for was in any way justified or not. What I found amazing was all those jerks on TV accusing Clinton of bad taste while badly insulting her about her LOOKS, of all things. Searching for bad things to say about her calling her ugly wouldn’t have occurred to me in a million years. Now, I’m really not that interested in her case. Rather that instance got me wondering about what you guys over there find beautiful. Curiouser and curiouser! So was that opinion only Jay Leno’s and Arsenio Hall’s or was it yours as well? —
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I do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Artemis wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > I don’t think this is an appropriate place to have a cold, intellectual > debate about the morality of suicide or of what leads to it. > — > For more information about this service, send e-mail to: > h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message > ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator > ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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Do you know that for sure? Been around lot’s of it, more than I care to discuss, so I’m not ignorant on the subject anyway. Hope this finds you well. Hugs Eddie (Chief) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Artemis wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > In a message dated Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:12:59 -0400, spoo…@banet.net writes: > >I do. > >Artemis wrote: > >> x-no-archive: yes > >> I don’t think this is an appropriate place to have a cold, intellectual > >> debate about the morality of suicide or of what leads to it. > You are not suicidal… > — > For more information about this service, send e-mail to: > h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message > ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator > ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for your responses thus far. > These are not my rules – no way did I judge and make them up, etc. > For those searching for the truth, may you find that these are the same answers > you will find? > I have always gone in search of truth, and my reading and understanding > have found these answers. > People’s stories tend to reinforce what I have written. > I know that my suffering in life, may not compare to yours – I know that life > is extremely hard for some people, who do face more suffering and hardship > than others. And I was not going to approve an easier way out for them, > which is the wrong answer, for the reasons I stated. > The truth I search for, is not my truth, but truth – if it hurts, what can I > do about it? > There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep > trying. This NG may hint at some answers, but ultimately it is up to you > to implement the solution. There are many ways to tackle problems, try a > different way. > We are all individual in ourselves, so one solution does not suit all. > Read all you can about death and dying, if you think suicide is an answer. > There are lots of stories which shed light on what death is all about. > See what people’s stories tell you about it? > "Saved by the Light" is a good story, maybe readers can suggest others? > An important thing is to open your mind. See your life from another > perspective – try to see small changes which can make your life better, > and move towards it. > Hopefully in time, you will wake up that you have made that drastic > change in your life. You are much happier? > And your problems are not so big anymore… > We can debate this until eternity, and that is fine.
Thanks you for another wonderful stuff. All I can say is that a life needs choices in order to change. According to a physicist, a life without change is a dead life. I think one of the purposes of the life is to grow. This grows is part of the change. This painful life no matter whoes pain is needed a room to change. If we do not change, we are actually played as a victim. A victim has no choice. Then here is the question of what do we do with our loneliness. Well one thing I know I conscious do is when I feel lone is I look at the flowers. ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <371567DB.5FEBE…@ccms.net>, Lady…@ccms.net says… > >Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: > >> I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or > >> intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about > >> death, dying, suicide, whatever. > > Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance > >that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* > >"laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make > it > >sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and > >that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are > certainly > >entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe > these > >are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts > and > >some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a > >suggestion. Jae > I know that ultimately what I write is ALWAYS my opinion, just like everyone > else has their opinion – and are entitled to it. > I am not seeking any converts – and what I write will not change anyone’s > mind at all. When someone changes their view, it is because they want to. > I’m sorry if readers have found this post somewhat offensive. I did not > intend it to be. > I guess I get fed up with people wanting to know what is true or not. > I’ve been like that all my life – perhaps more fed up with the deceptions that > goes on in our world. I am a truthseeker – and I like to believe that > people do want to know the truth. > Suicide, etc should be discussed — out in the open. > It is too important an issue not to be. > We all know when we discuss beliefs – it is very personal, and all our beliefs > are different because we all come from different backgrounds, think > differently, have had different experiences, different ways of upbringing, etc. > You can discuss beliefs without going into a flame war, or getting very > emotional about it. > I can only guess there may be the fear of being shown that your belief > system has some irregularities to it. > Yet your belief system determines how you handle stress and difficulties in > life. > Be happy in your belief system, and you live a happier life? > Harvey
I believe we have a communication problem here. I did try to explain my position and I do not believe you understood it by the response you gave. Perhaps I failed to explain clearly enough or I simply am not able to understand your reponse. I don’t wish to close doors, but I have difficulty relating to some of your posts and I believe this particular thread is one of them. I don’t think you and I should continue discussing it. I believe we are too far apart in understanding. Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: > I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or > intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about > death, dying, suicide, whatever.
Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* "laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make it sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are certainly entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe these are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts and some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a suggestion. Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Jae writes>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Frans wrote: >> Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. >> Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom >> Frans > It is my well considered opinion that the above statement contains so >much wisdom, that I intend to save it and use it, darlin’. > I would change it, with your permission, to read: >"Please learn to accept that a different belief is not a wrong belief." > Frans
No Jae, I value the wisdom much more, and the line you wrote is yours. You and others here thought me, remember…? So if you like to use it, sign with ASL, pleeeeaaase? Hugs Frans
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Frans wrote: > Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. > Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom > Frans
It is my well considered opinion that the above statement contains so much wisdom, that I intend to save it and use it, darlin’. I would change it, with your permission, to read: "Please learn to accept that a different belief is not a wrong belief." Frans
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>Ditto. >Hugs >Eddie (Chief)
<warm smile> Thank you Chief Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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Your Name Here – Harvey writes>… >I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or >intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about >death, dying, suicide, whatever. >If you talk with any family in which a suicide has occurred, you will get >the proper answer. How much an effect a suicide has. >People die all the time – but a suicide has even more sadness attached to it, >especially if the person is young, or still very active. >People who are high achievers, may particularly be prone to suicide? >Harvey
There are different worlds, different people and different opinions. Somewhere in our own minds we think "life is worth while" or "it’s not anymore". No other person can understand this. In The Netherlands the law permits help from professionals, under certain conditions, to end life. Yes, many people believe it should not be. But that’s a believe and cannot be argued, nor can be argued if a person has the right to end his/her life. Your statement is clear Harvey, you believe family is important, so their opinion is important. But in many other parts of the world, family is only important if they acted like family before. If not, you don’t have a family. You have to get used to that opinion (or believe) as well. In Japan you honour your family if you kill yourself after you brought disgrace to the family.This contradicts your way of thinking. Now, are they right, or are you? It’s a believe! Both opinions are right. Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom Frans
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> I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or >anyone >else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do >not feel >they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may >scream >and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs >to you >both, Jae
Thank you Jae, I just might take you up on that. Thank you for reaching out as you always do so kindly…. {hugs} <smile> Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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Jeneve23 wrote: > Matt wrote: > >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > >post in a full and proper manner. > >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > >provocative. > This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but > I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as > others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to > say that. > -Jenn
I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or anyone else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do not feel they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may scream and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs to you both, Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Still do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -YourName Here wrote: > And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. > It doesn’t make any sense to do it. > The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. > Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered > morally acceptable or whatever. > Here are those special circumstances, for those interested? > When you give your life to save another. Put your life at risk for them. > Purely by accident — only under conditions as above. Faked accidents > are not permitted, because you know it was so. And others know too. > Do not fool yourself, it will be seen as an accident when you know it was not. > When you’re near the end of your physical life here, in old age, or the > equivalent thereof, when each breath brings you pain, and the only > release from pain is death. These are apt conditions for euthanasia. > Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. > These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, > if you are searching for the truth of the matter. > If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, > in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is > never an answer. > The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, > and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you > found life here was. > It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is > a fact, you will return. > The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, > or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. > And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your > funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking > detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. > So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism > and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. > Helping others along the way, will help you along too. > Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what > you can find? > ICQ # 34604382 > Harvey
– Yours sincerely, Simon "If I never existed, some other unlucky bastard would be here to take my place and every morning, I remind myself that I’m doing this, not for me, but for that person, who’s at a better place right now…" — For PGP Public-Key, Finger Milky…@escape.net ICQ UIN #2086171 AIM NICK: SLVoid
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In article <371567DB.5FEBE…@ccms.net>, Lady…@ccms.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: >> I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or >> intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about >> death, dying, suicide, whatever. > Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance >that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* >"laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make it >sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and >that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are certainly >entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe these >are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts and >some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a >suggestion. Jae
I know that ultimately what I write is ALWAYS my opinion, just like everyone else has their opinion – and are entitled to it. I am not seeking any converts – and what I write will not change anyone’s mind at all. When someone changes their view, it is because they want to. I’m sorry if readers have found this post somewhat offensive. I did not intend it to be. I guess I get fed up with people wanting to know what is true or not. I’ve been like that all my life – perhaps more fed up with the deceptions that goes on in our world. I am a truthseeker – and I like to believe that people do want to know the truth. Suicide, etc should be discussed — out in the open. It is too important an issue not to be. We all know when we discuss beliefs – it is very personal, and all our beliefs are different because we all come from different backgrounds, think differently, have had different experiences, different ways of upbringing, etc. You can discuss beliefs without going into a flame war, or getting very emotional about it. I can only guess there may be the fear of being shown that your belief system has some irregularities to it. Yet your belief system determines how you handle stress and difficulties in life. Be happy in your belief system, and you live a happier life? Harvey
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In article <7f3lao$pe…@twwells.com>, anon-21…@anon.twwells.com says… >x-no-archive: yes >In a message dated 14 Apr 1999 21:56:52 GMT, y…@somehost.somedomain writes: >>There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep >>trying. >Why? No, don’t answer that. Because you can’t possibly know.
No one really knows what it’s like living another person’s life, and the difficulties they face. You don’t have to look far to see people who have faced enormous difficulties, and have lived a hard life [I'm not writing about people in ASL here, within my own family I see tortured and screwed up lives]. No one in my family has committed suicide, but two came close in their own way – one includes my mother. Yes – life is unfair to some people for sure. No doubt about it. I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about death, dying, suicide, whatever. If you talk with any family in which a suicide has occurred, you will get the proper answer. How much an effect a suicide has. People die all the time – but a suicide has even more sadness attached to it, especially if the person is young, or still very active. People who are high achievers, may particularly be prone to suicide? Harvey
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Ditto. Hugs Eddie (Chief) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jae wrote: > Jeneve23 wrote: > > Matt wrote: > > >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > > >post in a full and proper manner. > > >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > > >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > > >provocative. > > This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but > > I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as > > others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to > > say that. > > -Jenn > I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or anyone > else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do not feel > they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may scream > and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs to you > both, Jae > — > "And the inconceivable task begins….. > To find wholeness from within….." > Author Unknown
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Read Jill’s story (75 lines) in the thread above:: Is it OK to take my own life? for those who think it’s OK to take your own life. Don’t be so selfish when you take your own life. Your life does ripple through to other people, and your death will affect more people than you would imagine. Any child that knows you will be deeply affected. ICQ # 34604382 Harvey
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In article <924090940.587…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, y…@somehost.somedomain says… > And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. > It doesn’t make any sense to do it.
That depends. I could give reasons as to why it would make sense to me. > The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life.
I disagree, I cannot stand the madness of this world. Do I shut it away and pretend it isnt there? Do I face it head on and embrace the pain it causes me? Or do I end the pain? > Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way.
<SIGH> Am I about to enter yet another flame war? Do you want me to unleash the angry beast within? Do you realise how patronising and insulting those words are? > These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, > if you are searching for the truth of the matter.
Now THATS a cop-out. > If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, > in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is > never an answer.
Oh dear – pure unproven speculation. > The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, > and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you > found life here was. > It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is > a fact, you will return.
And if it is not a fact, then you will not return. > The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, > or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. > And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your > funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking > detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. > So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism > and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. > Helping others along the way, will help you along too. > Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what > you can find?
I think that you just posted this to wind people up. Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* upset me somewhat. However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this post in a full and proper manner. Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly provocative. Matt
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Matt wrote: >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this >post in a full and proper manner. >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly >provocative.
This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to say that. -Jenn
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Matt wrote: > I think that you just posted this to wind people up. > Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* > upset me somewhat. > However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > post in a full and proper manner. > Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > provocative. > Matt
I do not think soft words will soothe the savage beast, darlin’, or I would find some for you. <smile> Each person, especially those who have lived with the desire to leave this world, has a view of suicide that may or may not agree with anyone else’s. Suicide appears to be one choice, that I consider to be a personal choice, that many others seem to feel is not. I have fought others for their right to make that choice and I expect that I will do so again. Some here, I have fought because of my selfishness. I do not wish to lose them from my life. I do not think that attempting to make people who are already suffering from whatever makes them wish to leave this world, suffer also from guilt is productive. But, that is my opinion. Many seem to make rules for when suicide is "permissable". Their rules or opinions are based on their own experiences or their upbringing or beliefs. They seem to be able to understand how unrelenting physical pain can make someone wish to leave, but cannot understand that unrelenting emotional pain is a form of moment to moment suffering that is just as debilitating, just as harmful to quality of life. Some people do not seem to realize or be able to understand that when they insist that someone does not have the choice unless the "reason" for suicide fits their narrow moral view, that it can be not only provacative, but insulting to the intelligence of those who maintain that the choice is theirs and who are staying moment to moment in this world in spite of their suffering because at this particular moment in time, they have chosen to do so. I do not advocate suicide, but I believe I have at least some understanding of it and of the desire to use it as a method to end suffering. Whether that suffering be emotional or physical. Taking what another poster (who I will not name as he x-no-archived his post) said in his response to Akira, until you exercise your choice of ending your life, you still have it to use as an option. It is my opinion that as long as you draw breath, there is a chance of things changing for you. Your choice, your chance of change is ended once you exercise the option to take your own life. I know, Matt, that your fight within yourself to continue choosing to stay in this world, is ongoing and I admire your courage to stay and fight for your own life as well as to stay with us here and try to help others. I know that your rage is a part of your suffering and caused in part by the choice you make to stay and the fight to continue making that choice. I admire your courage to share that with us. Hugs, darlin’…….Jae’ — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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In article <MPG.117f2208e9847506989…@news.freeuk.net>, M…@myhome36.freeserve.co.uk says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <924090940.587…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, y…@somehost.somedomain >says… >> And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. >> It doesn’t make any sense to do it. >That depends. I could give reasons as to why it would make sense to me. >> The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. >I disagree, I cannot stand the madness of this world. Do I shut it away >and pretend it isnt there? Do I face it head on and embrace the pain it >causes me? Or do I end the pain? >> Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. >> It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not >> rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. ><SIGH> Am I about to enter yet another flame war? >Do you want me to unleash the angry beast within? >Do you realise how patronising and insulting those words are? >> These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, >> if you are searching for the truth of the matter. >Now THATS a cop-out. >> If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, >> in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is >> never an answer. >Oh dear – pure unproven speculation. >> The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, >> and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you >> found life here was. >> It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is >> a fact, you will return. >And if it is not a fact, then you will not return. >> The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, >> or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. >> And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your >> funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking >> detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. >> So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism >> and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. >> Helping others along the way, will help you along too. >> Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >> you can find? >I think that you just posted this to wind people up. >Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* >upset me somewhat. >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this >post in a full and proper manner. >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly >provocative. >Matt
It doesn’t bother me one bit to discuss [not flame] this touchy subject. I am aware of all the arguments about it — but of course, I do not know your personal reference point and your experiences, etc. Why not discuss it in a civilised manner, point by point? Throw some light on the subject, instead of dismissing it so promptly. Come back to it, when you’re in the mood —- and really discuss it. I know my views will not be liked or agreed with, and only a few will agree? That is fine – we are what we are. I seek to understand, because with understanding your mind grows. Harvey ICQ # 34604382
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And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. It doesn’t make any sense to do it. The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered morally acceptable or whatever. Here are those special circumstances, for those interested? When you give your life to save another. Put your life at risk for them. Purely by accident — only under conditions as above. Faked accidents are not permitted, because you know it was so. And others know too. Do not fool yourself, it will be seen as an accident when you know it was not. When you’re near the end of your physical life here, in old age, or the equivalent thereof, when each breath brings you pain, and the only release from pain is death. These are apt conditions for euthanasia. Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, if you are searching for the truth of the matter. If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is never an answer. The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you found life here was. It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is a fact, you will return. The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. Helping others along the way, will help you along too. Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what you can find? ICQ # 34604382 Harvey
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> Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way.
Sometimes we just can’t take it any longer. There’s a limit to everything. Do you have any idea how many years I’ve been suffering?
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>Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered >morally acceptable or whatever.
It makes me very uncomfrtable when people start telling others what is "morally acceptable". >Here are those special circumstances, >for those interested?
You set forth in your post a set of rules as to when it is ok to die and when it is not. Do you not see anything a little strange in that? >Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >you can find?
I understand, Harvey, that you are trying to help others and inspire others to try and overcome the obstacles in their lives. That, in and of itself shows what a kind heart you have. I just question your approach and way of thinking. I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own fate. Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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In article <19990414151725.11151.00000…@ng-ca1.aol.com>, jenev…@aol.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered >>morally acceptable or whatever. >It makes me very uncomfrtable when people start telling others what is >"morally acceptable". >>Here are those special circumstances, >for those interested? > You set forth in your post a set of rules as to when it is ok to die and when >it is not. Do you not see anything a little strange in that? >>Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >>you can find? >I understand, Harvey, that you are trying to help others and inspire others to >try and overcome the obstacles in their lives. That, in and of itself shows >what a kind heart you have. I just question your approach and way of thinking. >I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own fate. >Regards, Jenn >{Hugs}
Thanks for your responses thus far. These are not my rules – no way did I judge and make them up, etc. For those searching for the truth, may you find that these are the same answers you will find? I have always gone in search of truth, and my reading and understanding have found these answers. People’s stories tend to reinforce what I have written. I know that my suffering in life, may not compare to yours – I know that life is extremely hard for some people, who do face more suffering and hardship than others. And I was not going to approve an easier way out for them, which is the wrong answer, for the reasons I stated. The truth I search for, is not my truth, but truth – if it hurts, what can I do about it? There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep trying. This NG may hint at some answers, but ultimately it is up to you to implement the solution. There are many ways to tackle problems, try a different way. We are all individual in ourselves, so one solution does not suit all. Read all you can about death and dying, if you think suicide is an answer. There are lots of stories which shed light on what death is all about. See what people’s stories tell you about it? "Saved by the Light" is a good story, maybe readers can suggest others? An important thing is to open your mind. See your life from another perspective – try to see small changes which can make your life better, and move towards it. Hopefully in time, you will wake up that you have made that drastic change in your life. You are much happier? And your problems are not so big anymore… We can debate this until eternity, and that is fine. Harvey ICQ # 34604382
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Question:
In article <7989m5$9u…@twwells.com>, anon-24…@anon.twwells.com wrote: > The Absurdity of the False Attraction Theory > I have been lurking on this newsgroup for about five years > now. In those five years I have made dramatic progress in > overcoming shyness and loneliness.
Which shows you had a form of shyness/loneliness from which dramatic progress could be made. > Anyway, this whole False Attraction Theory of Mark Green’s has > really been bothering me. It is blatantly misogynistic and > essentially illogical. As a service to Mark, and more importantly > as a service to the people who have been arguing with him, I decided > to post this refutation of his theory. > Mark has said there are women he finds unattractive. That means > that he chooses to consistently reject these women. He does not > approach them (which is a form of rejection) and if they were > to approach him, he would reject them. Of course if one of these > women were to approach Mark, that would mean that he attracted her, > and that would make him guilty of false attraction.
True. However, they do *not* approach me, because I am unattractive. > It is actually more complicated than that. A women does not have > to approach Mark to be rejected. If she just sees him walking down > the street and thinks to herself "that guy looks nice, I wish he > would approach me" then Mark must have attracted her. He also has > rejected her, and she knows this in much the same way that Mark knows > all those attractive women walking down the street are rejecting him. > So if this were to happen, Mark would again be guilty of false attraction.
This may appear to be a paradox. If I am attracted back to her, it is not a false attraction. However, if I think she’s false attracting me, I defend myself against it, which means I reject her, which means that I now really-am false attracting her. If she (now correctly) thinks the same thing, she defends herself against it by rejecting me, hence she’s now really false attracting me, which means we’re both false attracting each other, which is a contradiction in terms. However, you break a basic assumption. I am *not* attractive, so the situations mentioned never arise. Also, false attraction is not something that you do by accident. You have to make a deliberate decision to false attract **or** not to realise that doing a given thing would make you false attract. How’s that different? Well, if somebody you haven’t met before phones you up, you honestly don’t know if you’re attracted to them or not, and you might not know what they find attractive. Alternatively, people who go to clubs for example (knowing there will be many people there, some of which they will NOT be attracted to) wearing clothing which is specifically designed to align with the societally accepted view of attractiveness (so they know they’ll attract) are deliberately false attracting because they have all the information available; they either must use it (and realise they’re deliberately false attracting) or choose not to (which is also a choice). Men probably do it too: it’s just easier for women because the societal stereotype of attraction is more universally applicable and more support in attaining it is provided. > Mark is conscientious and knows about false attraction, and would > never falsely attract someone. However Mark does not know where > all those unattractive women are. When he is walking down the street > he might pass one of them. When he answers the phone an unattractive > woman might be on the other end of the line. When he walks into > a bar an unattractive woman might be waiting by the door. If Mark > were to negligently smile and act friendly he might falsely attract > someone. The only safe thing to do then is to act, dress and speak as > unattractively as possible at all times, because you never know when > an unattractive woman might be around. > So in order to avoid false attraction Mark has to act unattractive. > But then he complains about being unattractive.
I do not consciously act unattractive. > Mark also claims to have tried to attract people. But if he has tried > to attract people, then he has tried to falsely attract people, because > there was probably some unattractive person around when Mark was trying > to attract. Unless Mark can claim to know what everyone who sees him > is thinking, he has no way of knowing that he has not falsely attracted > anyone.
The trick, then, is to attract by means that affect only the person you’re trying to attract. Most male methods do this because you signal to or approach only one person. Most female methods do not because they’re based on display behaviour. You mentioned that you can try to attract or believe in false attraction. Well, I can’t try to attract, so I do the other. (And before Marc says I’m saying I’m uniquely defective, I can’t try to attract yet, but I can try to work out how to try to attract.) ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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On Wed, 3 Feb 1999 Mark.Gr…@reading.ac.uk wrote: > > would approach me" then Mark must have attracted her. He also has > > rejected her, and she knows this in much the same way that Mark knows > > all those attractive women walking down the street are rejecting him. > > So if this were to happen, Mark would again be guilty of false attraction. > This may appear to be a paradox. If I am attracted back to her, it is not > a false attraction. However, if I think she’s false attracting me, I defend > myself against it, which means I reject her, which means that I now really-am > false attracting her. If she (now correctly) thinks the same thing, she > defends herself against it by rejecting me, hence she’s now really false > attracting me, which means we’re both false attracting each other, which is a > contradiction in terms. However, you break a basic assumption. I am *not* > attractive, so the situations mentioned never arise. Also, false attraction
ACtually I cant see how you can write up a worldview and then dismiss it that it doesnt apply to you because the situation doesnt arise. It just spells double standard. — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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The Absurdity of the False Attraction Theory I have been lurking on this newsgroup for about five years now. In those five years I have made dramatic progress in overcoming shyness and loneliness. This is only the second time I have posted anything. Anyway, this whole False Attraction Theory of Mark Green’s has really been bothering me. It is blatantly misogynistic and essentially illogical. As a service to Mark, and more importantly as a service to the people who have been arguing with him, I decided to post this refutation of his theory. Mark has said there are women he finds unattractive. That means that he chooses to consistently reject these women. He does not approach them (which is a form of rejection) and if they were to approach him, he would reject them. Of course if one of these women were to approach Mark, that would mean that he attracted her, and that would make him guilty of false attraction. It is actually more complicated than that. A women does not have to approach Mark to be rejected. If she just sees him walking down the street and thinks to herself "that guy looks nice, I wish he would approach me" then Mark must have attracted her. He also has rejected her, and she knows this in much the same way that Mark knows all those attractive women walking down the street are rejecting him. So if this were to happen, Mark would again be guilty of false attraction. Mark is conscientious and knows about false attraction, and would never falsely attract someone. However Mark does not know where all those unattractive women are. When he is walking down the street he might pass one of them. When he answers the phone an unattractive woman might be on the other end of the line. When he walks into a bar an unattractive woman might be waiting by the door. If Mark were to negligently smile and act friendly he might falsely attract someone. The only safe thing to do then is to act, dress and speak as unattractively as possible at all times, because you never know when an unattractive woman might be around. So in order to avoid false attraction Mark has to act unattractive. But then he complains about being unattractive. Mark also claims to have tried to attract people. But if he has tried to attract people, then he has tried to falsely attract people, because there was probably some unattractive person around when Mark was trying to attract. Unless Mark can claim to know what everyone who sees him is thinking, he has no way of knowing that he has not falsely attracted anyone. So unless there is nobody that we consider unattractive, we cannot believe in the Theory of False Attraction if we are trying to attract people, and we cannot try to attract people if we believe in the Theory of False Attraction. Choose one or the other. Stephen — For more information about this service, send e-mail to: h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -On Wed, 03 Feb 1999 11:30:26 GMT, Mark.Gr…@reading.ac.uk wrote: >In article <7989m5$9u…@twwells.com>, > anon-24…@anon.twwells.com wrote: >> It is actually more complicated than that. A women does not have >> to approach Mark to be rejected. If she just sees him walking down >> the street and thinks to herself "that guy looks nice, I wish he >> would approach me" then Mark must have attracted her. He also has >> rejected her, and she knows this in much the same way that Mark knows >> all those attractive women walking down the street are rejecting him. >> So if this were to happen, Mark would again be guilty of false attraction. > This may appear to be a paradox. If I am attracted back to her, it is not >a false attraction. However, if I think she’s false attracting me, I defend >myself against it, which means I reject her, which means that I now really-am >false attracting her. If she (now correctly) thinks the same thing, she >defends herself against it by rejecting me, hence she’s now really false >attracting me, which means we’re both false attracting each other, which is a >contradiction in terms.
B O G G L E ! ! ! Jesus H., guys. I think we need some illustrations and symbolic logic charts here or something, ’cause you lost me somewhere around "The Absurdity of the." :) Let me help. She’s attracted to Mark. Mark does not approach her, thus he rejects her. Therefore, Mark is falsely attracting her. Mark is attracted to her. She’s does not approach him, thus she rejects him. Therefore, she’s falsely attracting Mark. Ah. I agree. The inability of the second party to read the mind of the first party is indeed blameworthy here. She’s attracted to Mark. Mark is attracted to her. Neither she nor Mark approaches the other. So in technical terms, this situation "sucks." Oh, shit, it gets better. She’s attracted to Mark. Mark thinks she’s falsely attracting him. Therefore, he defends himself by rejecting her. Oh well, if it’s a defense, that makes it all better. Mark is attracted to her. She thinks he’s falsely attracting her. Therefore, she defends herself by rejecting him. Yes, it’s definitely all better! And if the second party can’t read the mind of the first party who thinks they’re reading the mind of the second party, then they’re REALLY blameworthy! Mark is attracted to her. She’s attracted to Mark. Mark thinks she’s falsely attracting him. She thinks Mark is falsely attracting her. Psychologists often call this "a massive fuckup." Alright. Well, this is all clear to me now. Thanks a heap! I mean, to me. <pats self on the back> :P >However, you break a basic assumption. I am *not* >attractive, so the situations mentioned never arise. Also, false attraction
And God help us if they do! Maybe I should print up those charts just in case? >is not something that you do by accident. You have to make a deliberate >decision to false attract **or** not to realise that doing a given thing >would make you false attract.
A deliberate decision to commit an accident. That definitely drips of conspiracy! > I do not consciously act unattractive.
I bet you don’t, because I don’t either, even when it’s really painful, like holding in a fart. Life is cruel like that. > The trick, then, is to attract by means that affect only the person you’re >trying to attract.
You got it. I bet 9 out of 10 women you asked would love to do exactly that. No longer would they have to ENDURE being "so sick of getting hit on." No longer would they have to sift through all the jerks and players to find Mr. Right. They’d automatically attract him and no one else! Hell, even I’d like that! I mean, attracting Ms. Right. You knew that, right? ;) Well, anyway, hey, there’s your solution, Mark! Put your skills to the test. Come up with a way we can attracted exactly and only the person we want to attract! That way, those of us who want LTRs can have ‘em, and those who want to swing and play rapo can do that with their people. You could save the dating scene! >Most male methods do this because you signal to or >approach only one person.
A lot of guys can do that. But making an approach doesn’t mean she’s the woman he wanted. In fact, I bet a lot of women get hurt by guys approaching them and later not returning their calls. "That jerk didn’t even return my call!" Hell, that’s some kind of female cliche nowadays. >Most female methods do not because they’re based >on display behaviour. You mentioned that you can try to attract or believe >in false attraction. Well, I can’t try to attract, so I do the other. (And >before Marc says I’m saying I’m uniquely defective, I can’t try to attract >yet, but I can try to work out how to try to attract.)
How to TRY to attract? That’s easy. Just think of what you think will attract her, and TRY IT. Your goal is to attract, and you’re trying to get to that goal, so you’re TRYING TO ATTRACT! And while you’re at it, figure out how not to falsely attract, then report us your results. I really think you’re onto something!
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Question:
I read you loud and clear, Jim. Keep your messages coming. h@shi ><
Response:
Hey there, sweet Hashi, Thank you for your kind support, and thank you, for your insight, and your caring… your voice is always so sweet, and clear… You know, sweet Hashi, the only thing wrong with you, is we don’t see you nearly often enough… but I’m always so happy when I do… warm, tender hugs, Michael Maddogg (there’s my sweet Hashi girl… hows about a bigg kiss for the ol’ dogg?…slurp!) :-]~ In article <1998060201254400.VAA29…@ladder03.news.aol.com>, hashir…@aol.com (HashiRoan) wrote:
sweet Hashi girl wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->I agree with Maddogg. >I can understand how angry and resentful people like the jock can make one >feel. But actually enjoying him squirm and suffer is a pitiful thing to feel. >It really only hurts you to feel this way and it makes you a small person to >feel this way. Have compassion for someone like the jock. He learned an >important lesson–be satified with that, rather than squealing with delight at >someone’s mistake and consequences they face. >h@shi > ><
Response:
Well said, Jim. I knew I would like you. Welcome aboard, my friend, and go ahead and take your shoes back off if you would like… I can take it… (grin) Michael Maddogg (dogg thinks he stepped in some people shit…) :-]~ – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -In article <3573583B.6…@accessone.com>, Jim <ralfj…@accessone.com> wrote: >Passive wrote: >> If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little >> humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown >> in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is >> so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here >> offering her shallow "support". >Both are examples of taking pleasure or satisfaction or amusement from >the act of inflicting pain on someone else. Of course they are >comparable. >The boy who Annubis is tormenting may or may not deserve harsh >treatment. How can we know? But he most certainly DOES NOT deserve harsh >treatment for the reasons being given. This boy had nothing to do with >the experiences that hurt Annubis or you. >Jim >> What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction . . .
Response:
>In high school, that’s NOT how you get respect. At least not these days.
who cares how things are done in high school? You? >Is Maddogg talking about HIMSELF here? I can’t be sure.
Hmmm. Integrity is what Maddogg is exuding. Maybe you can’t understand that. Maybe you think it’s falseness. Being reactive and hateful and perceiving it as "being honest" doesn’t quite deserve the credit you think it does. A little compassion, kindness and integrity is the right thing to be even if it does mean you get kicked in the process. Maddogg and LadyJ have character, compassion and integrity, but I don’t expect you to see that because you’re too concerned with your wounded pride and about the bad things that happened to you and how you’re going to get revenge. That thinking is only going to hurt you in the end. But I guess if others get hurt in the process, then success! And…this isn’t a "CULT". That is ludicrous. It’s a SUPPORT group. Get the difference? h@shi ><
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I’ve only been paying attention to newsgroups for about a week and this is my firstlook at a flame war. It’s a shame it’s in a group theoretically titled SUPPORT!. Jesus people get a clue. You wouldn’t act this way in RL, why do it here? I have directly observed that Lady3J has more then a little compassion and horse sense so any attack on her based on her "shallow" character is sheer nonsense. I don’t know anything much about the rest of the combatants, but they seemed to have picked sides awfully fast. I’m sorry, we aparently misunderstood goes a hell of a lot farther then Fuck you Asshole!. Even if y’all do disagree does it have to be violent? Y’all each have an opinion, but no more jihads, please. — visit me @ http://members.aol.com/gstratto/index.html maybe you’ll actually enjoy my sick sense of humor.
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Hey Mike, Well spoken… I seem to let my passion get away from me, and I’m really glad there are those, like you, that can maintain reason, yet still be there to stand up for your friends… Thanks, pal… See, that is what I was talking about, by gaining the respect of others, yet so many don’t seem to see. It’s not really that difficult of a concept, is it?… Michael Maddogg (hey there, Mike, how’s it hangin’?… and dont bother lying to ol’ dogg…) :-]~ In article <35734ed…@news.one.net>, "Mike Taylor" – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -<michaectay…@remove.juno.com> wrote: >Passive wrote in message <6kvfj4$84…@winter.news.erols.com>… >>You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). >Crap. That’s your pessimism talking. >>If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little >>humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown >>in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is >>so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here >>offering her shallow "support". >I’ll have you know that LadyJ has not only proven insightful in her >responses/support to others, but she’s helped changed the initially negative, >caustic attitudes of innumerable amounts of people on this NG. What have you >done? >>The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from >>that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that >>those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my >>peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because >>I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, >>if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people >>better. Understand them. >>Get it? >Oh, I get it, but if that is your reasoning and your solution to your problem >and that of other loners out there, then it is you who is incredibly shallow. >Mike
Response:
In article <6kvkc3$fm…@chile.it.earthlink.net>, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) wrote:
This was sent to Anubis, but I’ll respond anyway. > anubis > If you think you’re going to give ten-fold of what you get, I suggest you > look around… Does the name Custer mean anything to you? > You don’t get respect, you earn it… the old fashioned way, by being kind, > and compassionate, and respectful of others…
In high school, that’s NOT how you get respect. At least not these days. > not by letting your warped > sense of self, your twisted views, and your distorted self-righteousness,
Is Maddogg talking about HIMSELF here? I can’t be sure. > alienate all those that would support you…. And I’ll tell you true, if you > would have come here in sincerity, instead of spouting your ludicrous > philosophy, insisting it is gospel, LadyJ would have been the first one > there, to give you comfort, soothing, and compassion.
To ANUBIS: I’m curious, have you ALWAYS posted these kinds of destructive, hurtful messages? You know, the ones that the folks of ASL are accusing you of posting? somehow, I bet that you’ve made some rather constructive posts here in the past, it’s just more convenient for these people to ignore them, now. > And there would > have been many more, right behind her, to give you what we each have > to give.
Yes, and instead, she’s turned her back on me and Anubis, and I suspect EVERYONE who has ever been less than the "I love everyone in the whole world" persona that SHE attempts to project. Accordingly, all of you have turned your backs on us. Refusing to even TRY to listen to reason. This isn’t a support group … it’s a CULT. > But, instead you chose this path…. > Here’s fifty cents… buy two clues….
Mr. Sensitive strikes again! – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Maddogg >In article <35735001.F0EE1…@bucknell.edu>, Anubis <cmo…@bucknell.edu> >wrote: >>Right on dude! >>> Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the >>> douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his >>> pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are > totally >>> off the mark. >>"Sadistic glee" is a little strong. The situation there went like this: >>This jock-guy (let’s call him A-hole) was a senior in danger of not graduating >> due >>to piss-poor academic performance. Some people still think that college is for >>partying first, getting laid second (although not really a factor in my case), >> and >>academia a distant third. He dug himself into a hole all by himself, and > whined >>like a buzzsaw when things didn’t go his way. >>Then, A-hole went to the dean and lodged a formal complaint against me, citing >>’lackluster effort to instruct’, or some damn thing. Now the course was >>’computational fluid dynamics’, and just from the title, you know this ain’t > no >>’rox for jox 101′. Everyone else in the class had no complaints against my >>teaching style. (They did say I was a bit harsh in the grading department, but >> ya >>gotta be tough if you want ppl to learn) >>It was comical to watch this big, puffed-up nimrod nearly on the brink of >> tears. >>He blamed me for his own sloth and laziness. He insulted me incessantly using >>tactics I thought only existed in high schools anymore. In the end, A-hole had >> to >>take summer school, and didn’t get to walk the aisle. While it would be >> ethically >>skewed to actively cause the downfall of another, I sit back and enjoy the >> show. >>So for this, I get a truckload of shite thrown my way by lj3? Will wonders >> never >>cease… >>I f I get respect, I return it. If I get grief, I give it tenfold, and in >>spades… >>And that’s the bottom line, cuz Anubis sed so!
Response:
>Maybe we have two people in this ng who are ‘passive.’<BR> ><BR> >Ignoring us is the easy way out, LadyJ. I and people like myself are here in >this<BR> >world. When I haven’t been smacked down, I’ve been shunned. I’m acustomed to >this type<BR> >of treatment. I assure you, It won’t change me.<BR>
%%%%%%%%% I believe that the best thing to do is just totally ignore this man, not answer any posts and he will go away……. it is a more peaceful place without him…..
Response:
In article <6kvi71$c9…@chile.it.earthlink.net>, maddo…@earthlink.net (Maddogg) wrote: > Passive, > I can tell you are new here, if you can possibly have the lack of insight, > or ignorance of fact, to call LadyJ, out of touch, or her support, shallow.
From what I saw, she was not being supportive. She was attacking–what I perceived to be–someone’s way of coping with what had happened to them in the past. That was really the jist of my message. > You will not find a more sincere, caring, compassionate person, than > LadyJ, if you were to take your head out of your own ass, and search. > She has been here to comfort, soothe, advise, counsel, and care for, > those that have been wounded by life, that have come here in sincerity, > seeking that compassion…. not to spew their garbage, and then insist > it is roses…
When did Anubis (or myself) say he wasn’t seeking counsel or whatever else? When did we come here solely for the purpose of spewing garbage? READ OUR MESSAGES instead of letting what blind loyalty you have to LadyJ lead you around? Anubis didn’t come in here and say "LadyJ, you’re a slut" right off the bat. He responded to her completely tearing apart what he does in his life. > And what is that, the Golden Rule in reverse? Someone hurt me, so > now I’m going to hurt someone too? And then you have the audacity > to say there is nothing wrong with that. That is the same justification > that child abusers use…. "I was abused as a child, so it’s okay for me > to abuse a child." Jesus, wake up… > Overcoming the urge to hurt, because one has been hurt, is a hard > thing to do, I’m sure, but to allow oneself to justify doing harm to > others, because they were harmed, is a basic lack of character.
Can people learn? As I said, when I approached the peopl that hurt me, they siply didn’t care what they had done. I doubt they learned anything, I doubt they grew up. Maybe by just distributing hurt around the world, people might become a little more aware of how they SHOUDLN’T do it. I think those guys they hurt me could have deserved a lesson in humility. Or, do you feel that the meek ought to just allow themselves to be abused and hope that someday the people around them will just magically get smarter? > And to support someone that behaves that way, and to offer them > validation for their actions, also shows a lack of character….
Completely failing to even ATTEMPT to understand my point of view also shows a lack of character. > Btw, what a comment on your state of mind, is that wonderfully > twisted sense of perceptions, that is your sig. line… and isn’t it > interesting, that you somehow equate vengeance and loneliness, > and somehow don’t see, that perhaps the loneliness, is a result > of the need to seek vengeance on others, for things that were > done to you in the past?… Here’s a quarter… buy a clue…
My my, we certainly have someone that lacks sensitivity. Vengeance and loneliness were equated because of my own personal experiences. That is, vengance, maybe, brings closer to those awful, nagging experiences of my past. Without settling things, I have trouble moving on with my life, which keeps me lonely. > I hope you seek, and find help, for your damaged emotions, and > warped perceptions of right and wrong… before it is too late.
Well, at least you didn’t pray for me. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Michael > Maddogg >In article <6kvfj4$84…@winter.news.erols.com>, ih…@aol.com (Passive) >wrote: >>WOW! There was quite a little argument sparked between LadyJ and Anubis >>because of the "Are they better than us?" post I made. Well, here’s my take >>on the issue–if any of you care: >>You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). LadyJ felt that by >>dishing out a little of the treatment that Anubis had received when he was >>younger, he was making the world a more horrible place. Now, to begin, I >>think that LadyJ is being terribly harsh in her assessment of what Anubis is >>doing. >>Anubis stated that: >>"You don’t know how satisfying it is to tell the puffed-up, so-full-of-himself >>jock douchebag that he is failing the class and might not graduate unless and >>until he takes his head out of his ass." >>If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little >>humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown >>in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is >>so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here >>offering her shallow "support". >>What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction from telling someone, >>smugly, to put in a little hustle and quit goofing off. I, and I suspect >>Anubis, were probably rather thoroughly traumatized. >>Now, for me at least, a lot of my "detachment" from the world is due to the >>fact that I never experienced closer. Nobody ever said I’m sorry (at least, >>they never meant it–I’ve meant it on the rare occasions on which I’ve had to >>say it). But I think that many people can agree that, unless they feel some >>sort of "end" to whatever they’ve had to deal with in their past, it’s really >>quite difficult to move on with the future. People can achieve satisfaction >>in various ways. I attempted to confront my past tormentors–of course we are >>still teenagers and so my results were pathetic; some of them flat out denied >>what they did or just shrugged it off. Anubis, however, is possibly dealing >>with it by giving what he got (do unto others…) and to a much lower degree >>at that. Is that so bad? >>No. >>The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from >>that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that >>those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my >>peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because >>I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, >>if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people >>better. Understand them. >>Get it? We learn different things in different ways, how we apply them is hoe >>we deal with what our problems are. A lonely person is lonely because they >>ave difficulty dealing with other people. They have to apply what they’ve >>learned through life–to hurt others, perhaps–to deal with whatever their >>deficiencies are that keep them lonely. I think that’s what I wanted to say, >>at least. Things are always clearer to me (in my mind) than they are on the >>screen. >>Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the >>douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his >>pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally >>off the mark. >>Passive, passion, passionate hatred, passively hating passionately.
Response:
LadyJ3 wrote: > But, don’t bother telling me. I will no longer hear your words. J
Maybe we have two people in this ng who are ‘passive.’ Ignoring us is the easy way out, LadyJ. I and people like myself are here in this world. When I haven’t been smacked down, I’ve been shunned. I’m acustomed to this type of treatment. I assure you, It won’t change me.
Response:
I agree with Maddogg. I can understand how angry and resentful people like the jock can make one feel. But actually enjoying him squirm and suffer is a pitiful thing to feel. It really only hurts you to feel this way and it makes you a small person to feel this way. Have compassion for someone like the jock. He learned an important lesson–be satified with that, rather than squealing with delight at someone’s mistake and consequences they face. h@shi ><
Response:
anubis If you think you’re going to give ten-fold of what you get, I suggest you look around… Does the name Custer mean anything to you? You don’t get respect, you earn it… the old fashioned way, by being kind, and compassionate, and respectful of others… not by letting your warped sense of self, your twisted views, and your distorted self-righteousness, alienate all those that would support you…. And I’ll tell you true, if you would have come here in sincerity, instead of spouting your ludicrous philosophy, insisting it is gospel, LadyJ would have been the first one there, to give you comfort, soothing, and compassion. And there would have been many more, right behind her, to give you what we each have to give. But, instead you chose this path…. Here’s fifty cents… buy two clues…. Maddogg In article <35735001.F0EE1…@bucknell.edu>, Anubis <cmo…@bucknell.edu> wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Right on dude! >> Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the >> douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his >> pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally >> off the mark. >"Sadistic glee" is a little strong. The situation there went like this: >This jock-guy (let’s call him A-hole) was a senior in danger of not graduating > due >to piss-poor academic performance. Some people still think that college is for >partying first, getting laid second (although not really a factor in my case), > and >academia a distant third. He dug himself into a hole all by himself, and whined >like a buzzsaw when things didn’t go his way. >Then, A-hole went to the dean and lodged a formal complaint against me, citing >’lackluster effort to instruct’, or some damn thing. Now the course was >’computational fluid dynamics’, and just from the title, you know this ain’t no >’rox for jox 101′. Everyone else in the class had no complaints against my >teaching style. (They did say I was a bit harsh in the grading department, but > ya >gotta be tough if you want ppl to learn) >It was comical to watch this big, puffed-up nimrod nearly on the brink of > tears. >He blamed me for his own sloth and laziness. He insulted me incessantly using >tactics I thought only existed in high schools anymore. In the end, A-hole had > to >take summer school, and didn’t get to walk the aisle. While it would be > ethically >skewed to actively cause the downfall of another, I sit back and enjoy the > show. >So for this, I get a truckload of shite thrown my way by lj3? Will wonders > never >cease… >I f I get respect, I return it. If I get grief, I give it tenfold, and in >spades… >And that’s the bottom line, cuz Anubis sed so!
Response:
Mike, I like your attitude! You go, guy! h@shi ><
Response:
Right on dude! > Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the > douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his > pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally > off the mark.
"Sadistic glee" is a little strong. The situation there went like this: This jock-guy (let’s call him A-hole) was a senior in danger of not graduating due to piss-poor academic performance. Some people still think that college is for partying first, getting laid second (although not really a factor in my case), and academia a distant third. He dug himself into a hole all by himself, and whined like a buzzsaw when things didn’t go his way. Then, A-hole went to the dean and lodged a formal complaint against me, citing ‘lackluster effort to instruct’, or some damn thing. Now the course was ‘computational fluid dynamics’, and just from the title, you know this ain’t no ‘rox for jox 101′. Everyone else in the class had no complaints against my teaching style. (They did say I was a bit harsh in the grading department, but ya gotta be tough if you want ppl to learn) It was comical to watch this big, puffed-up nimrod nearly on the brink of tears. He blamed me for his own sloth and laziness. He insulted me incessantly using tactics I thought only existed in high schools anymore. In the end, A-hole had to take summer school, and didn’t get to walk the aisle. While it would be ethically skewed to actively cause the downfall of another, I sit back and enjoy the show. So for this, I get a truckload of shite thrown my way by lj3? Will wonders never cease… I f I get respect, I return it. If I get grief, I give it tenfold, and in spades… And that’s the bottom line, cuz Anubis sed so!
Response:
Passive, I can tell you are new here, if you can possibly have the lack of insight, or ignorance of fact, to call LadyJ, out of touch, or her support, shallow. You will not find a more sincere, caring, compassionate person, than LadyJ, if you were to take your head out of your own ass, and search. She has been here to comfort, soothe, advise, counsel, and care for, those that have been wounded by life, that have come here in sincerity, seeking that compassion…. not to spew their garbage, and then insist it is roses… And what is that, the Golden Rule in reverse? Someone hurt me, so now I’m going to hurt someone too? And then you have the audacity to say there is nothing wrong with that. That is the same justification that child abusers use…. "I was abused as a child, so it’s okay for me to abuse a child." Jesus, wake up… Overcoming the urge to hurt, because one has been hurt, is a hard thing to do, I’m sure, but to allow oneself to justify doing harm to others, because they were harmed, is a basic lack of character. And to support someone that behaves that way, and to offer them validation for their actions, also shows a lack of character…. Btw, what a comment on your state of mind, is that wonderfully twisted sense of perceptions, that is your sig. line… and isn’t it interesting, that you somehow equate vengeance and loneliness, and somehow don’t see, that perhaps the loneliness, is a result of the need to seek vengeance on others, for things that were done to you in the past?… Here’s a quarter… buy a clue… I hope you seek, and find help, for your damaged emotions, and warped perceptions of right and wrong… before it is too late. Michael Maddogg In article <6kvfj4$84…@winter.news.erols.com>, ih…@aol.com (Passive) wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->WOW! There was quite a little argument sparked between LadyJ and Anubis >because of the "Are they better than us?" post I made. Well, here’s my take >on the issue–if any of you care: >You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). LadyJ felt that by >dishing out a little of the treatment that Anubis had received when he was >younger, he was making the world a more horrible place. Now, to begin, I >think that LadyJ is being terribly harsh in her assessment of what Anubis is >doing. >Anubis stated that: >"You don’t know how satisfying it is to tell the puffed-up, so-full-of-himself >jock douchebag that he is failing the class and might not graduate unless and >until he takes his head out of his ass." >If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little >humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown >in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is >so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here >offering her shallow "support". >What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction from telling someone, >smugly, to put in a little hustle and quit goofing off. I, and I suspect >Anubis, were probably rather thoroughly traumatized. >Now, for me at least, a lot of my "detachment" from the world is due to the >fact that I never experienced closer. Nobody ever said I’m sorry (at least, >they never meant it–I’ve meant it on the rare occasions on which I’ve had to >say it). But I think that many people can agree that, unless they feel some >sort of "end" to whatever they’ve had to deal with in their past, it’s really >quite difficult to move on with the future. People can achieve satisfaction >in various ways. I attempted to confront my past tormentors–of course we are >still teenagers and so my results were pathetic; some of them flat out denied >what they did or just shrugged it off. Anubis, however, is possibly dealing >with it by giving what he got (do unto others…) and to a much lower degree >at that. Is that so bad? >No. >The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from >that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that >those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my >peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because >I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, >if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people >better. Understand them. >Get it? We learn different things in different ways, how we apply them is hoe >we deal with what our problems are. A lonely person is lonely because they >ave difficulty dealing with other people. They have to apply what they’ve >learned through life–to hurt others, perhaps–to deal with whatever their >deficiencies are that keep them lonely. I think that’s what I wanted to say, >at least. Things are always clearer to me (in my mind) than they are on the >screen. >Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the >douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his >pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally >off the mark. >Passive, passion, passionate hatred, passively hating passionately.
Response:
Passive wrote: > If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little > humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown > in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is > so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here > offering her shallow "support".
Both are examples of taking pleasure or satisfaction or amusement from the act of inflicting pain on someone else. Of course they are comparable. The boy who Annubis is tormenting may or may not deserve harsh treatment. How can we know? But he most certainly DOES NOT deserve harsh treatment for the reasons being given. This boy had nothing to do with the experiences that hurt Annubis or you. Jim – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction . . .
Response:
Passive wrote in message <6kvfj4$84…@winter.news.erols.com>… >You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely).
Crap. That’s your pessimism talking. >If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little >humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown >in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is >so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here >offering her shallow "support".
I’ll have you know that LadyJ has not only proven insightful in her responses/support to others, but she’s helped changed the initially negative, caustic attitudes of innumerable amounts of people on this NG. What have you done? >The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from >that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that >those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my >peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because >I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, >if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people >better. Understand them. >Get it?
Oh, I get it, but if that is your reasoning and your solution to your problem and that of other loners out there, then it is you who is incredibly shallow. Mike
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You know, I didn’t finish reading all of your post. If people were happy with their lives and the way they are living them, they wouldn’t be coming here for support. Did you come here for support? Did the others like you come here to try to learn how to make life better and happier for themselves? Or did you come here to spout your philosophy and attack and start trouble? All that are here to learn and to try, I am willing to help. Those, like you, who are here for reasons I can not determine and am truly not interested in are not worth the time and effort it takes me to type this to you. I do not care to cross swords with you and those like you. I wonder what it is about caring about people and not hurting people and helping people that you find so horrible that you must come here and attack and belittle. But, don’t bother telling me. I will no longer hear your words. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Passive wrote: > WOW! There was quite a little argument sparked between LadyJ and Anubis > because of the "Are they better than us?" post I made. Well, here’s my take > on the issue–if any of you care: > You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). LadyJ felt that by > dishing out a little of the treatment that Anubis had received when he was > younger, he was making the world a more horrible place. Now, to begin, I > think that LadyJ is being terribly harsh in her assessment of what Anubis is > doing. > Anubis stated that: > "You don’t know how satisfying it is to tell the puffed-up, so-full-of-himself > jock douchebag that he is failing the class and might not graduate unless and > until he takes his head out of his ass." > If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little > humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown > in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is > so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here > offering her shallow "support". > What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction from telling someone, > smugly, to put in a little hustle and quit goofing off. I, and I suspect > Anubis, were probably rather thoroughly traumatized. > Now, for me at least, a lot of my "detachment" from the world is due to the > fact that I never experienced closer. Nobody ever said I’m sorry (at least, > they never meant it–I’ve meant it on the rare occasions on which I’ve had to > say it). But I think that many people can agree that, unless they feel some > sort of "end" to whatever they’ve had to deal with in their past, it’s really > quite difficult to move on with the future. People can achieve satisfaction > in various ways. I attempted to confront my past tormentors–of course we are > still teenagers and so my results were pathetic; some of them flat out denied > what they did or just shrugged it off. Anubis, however, is possibly dealing > with it by giving what he got (do unto others…) and to a much lower degree > at that. Is that so bad? > No. > The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from > that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that > those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my > peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because > I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, > if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people > better. Understand them. > Get it? We learn different things in different ways, how we apply them is hoe > we deal with what our problems are. A lonely person is lonely because they > ave difficulty dealing with other people. They have to apply what they’ve > learned through life–to hurt others, perhaps–to deal with whatever their > deficiencies are that keep them lonely. I think that’s what I wanted to say, > at least. Things are always clearer to me (in my mind) than they are on the > screen. > Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the > douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his > pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally > off the mark. > Passive, passion, passionate hatred, passively hating passionately.
– "Rivers belong where they can ramble Eagles belong where they can fly I’ve got to be where my spirit can run free Gotta find my corner of the sky."
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WOW! There was quite a little argument sparked between LadyJ and Anubis because of the "Are they better than us?" post I made. Well, here’s my take on the issue–if any of you care: You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). LadyJ felt that by dishing out a little of the treatment that Anubis had received when he was younger, he was making the world a more horrible place. Now, to begin, I think that LadyJ is being terribly harsh in her assessment of what Anubis is doing. Anubis stated that: "You don’t know how satisfying it is to tell the puffed-up, so-full-of-himself jock douchebag that he is failing the class and might not graduate unless and until he takes his head out of his ass." If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here offering her shallow "support". What Anubis is doing is getting a little satisfaction from telling someone, smugly, to put in a little hustle and quit goofing off. I, and I suspect Anubis, were probably rather thoroughly traumatized. Now, for me at least, a lot of my "detachment" from the world is due to the fact that I never experienced closer. Nobody ever said I’m sorry (at least, they never meant it–I’ve meant it on the rare occasions on which I’ve had to say it). But I think that many people can agree that, unless they feel some sort of "end" to whatever they’ve had to deal with in their past, it’s really quite difficult to move on with the future. People can achieve satisfaction in various ways. I attempted to confront my past tormentors–of course we are still teenagers and so my results were pathetic; some of them flat out denied what they did or just shrugged it off. Anubis, however, is possibly dealing with it by giving what he got (do unto others…) and to a much lower degree at that. Is that so bad? No. The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people better. Understand them. Get it? We learn different things in different ways, how we apply them is hoe we deal with what our problems are. A lonely person is lonely because they ave difficulty dealing with other people. They have to apply what they’ve learned through life–to hurt others, perhaps–to deal with whatever their deficiencies are that keep them lonely. I think that’s what I wanted to say, at least. Things are always clearer to me (in my mind) than they are on the screen. Of course, maybe Anubis just gets a little sadistic glee from telling the douchebag jock to settle down and start studying instead of flexing his pecs–and all of the analysis of his actions that I babbled about are totally off the mark. Passive, passion, passionate hatred, passively hating passionately.
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Anubis wrote in message <35735001.F0EE1…@bucknell.edu>… >Right on dude!
Are you sure your name isn’t Puck?!? >It was comical to watch this big, puffed-up nimrod nearly on the brink of tears. >He blamed me for his own sloth and laziness. He insulted me incessantly using >tactics I thought only existed in high schools anymore. In the end, A-hole had to >take summer school, and didn’t get to walk the aisle. While it would be ethically >skewed to actively cause the downfall of another, I sit back and enjoy the
show. You need to get out of teaching….Teachers are supposed to care for their students and help them learn….you may not have actively caused this guy’s failure, but you’ve openly admitted you derive pleasure from watching him have difficulty in class, and it’s hard for me to believe that your own attitude and perspective on everything in general isn’t affecting your teaching ability. Mikr
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Folks, It looks to me like these guys are just yanking everybody around to get a reaction. It is sort of creepy, but it probably doesn’t warrant people letting themselves get upset by it. Uhhh. Is anybody seeing my messages? Jim
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Passive wrote in message <6kvmh6$nu…@winter.news.erols.com>… >Yes, and instead, she’s turned her back on me and Anubis, and I suspect >EVERYONE who has ever been less than the "I love everyone in the whole world" >persona that SHE attempts to project. Accordingly, all of you have turned >your backs on us. Refusing to even TRY to listen to reason. This isn’t a >support group … it’s a CULT.
A cult! Hee hee –you make me laugh…..care for a purple shroud? Mike
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Oh yeah??!? I know you are but what am I, I know you are but what am I……oh…..Hi Jim…Sorry about that. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jim wrote in message <35736D11.2…@accessone.com>… >Folks, >It looks to me like these guys are just yanking everybody around to get >a reaction. >It is sort of creepy, but it probably doesn’t warrant people letting >themselves get upset by it.
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Maddogg wrote in message <6kvm88$ht…@chile.it.earthlink.net>… > Michael > Maddogg (hey there, Mike, how’s it hangin’?… > and dont bother lying to ol’ dogg…) :-]~
It’s hangin’…..but tonight I feel like I just stumbled out of a bar room brawl after all these flames. But that’s okay….tomorrow I see the Dave Mathews Band in concert….whoohoo! Later, Mike
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Thank you, Mike. I do try not to let them get to me. It seems they come here two or three at a time. It’s happened before. Maybe not these same ones, but others like them. Almost as though it were a plan. They usually pick Michael or I to attack. It makes me sad that people will do things like that. Yes, they do make me show my anger. I am always angry at harm and especially at those who take pleasure in it and even more so with those who support that behavior. I have asked in the past, that people on the group not respond to attacks on me. I did not wish this group turned into a battlefield. It is a caring place and I would keep it that way. But, I do tire of being alone. You and others who have been my support, have my gratitude. J – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Mike Taylor wrote: > Passive wrote in message <6kvfj4$84…@winter.news.erols.com>… > >You can’t be "morally right" and happy (not lonely). > Crap. That’s your pessimism talking. > >If LadyJ really feels that what is essentially just teaching a jock a little > >humility and putting him in his place is comparable to having garbage thrown > >in your face for the amusement of others (one of my experiences) then she is > >so frighteningly out of touch with the world that she shouldn’t be here > >offering her shallow "support". > I’ll have you know that LadyJ has not only proven insightful in her > responses/support to others, but she’s helped changed the initially negative, > caustic attitudes of innumerable amounts of people on this NG. What have you > done? > >The world hurt us. Some of us never forget being hurt. We all learn from > >that kind of stuff. One thing I learned from trying to get closer is that > >those who hurt me simply didn’t care about what they had done–neither did my > >peers. That’s what the world is like. I’m "detached" from the world because > >I can’t relate to the people I share it with. If I adopted their philosophy, > >if I didn’t care who I hurt, then maybe I would be able to deal with people > >better. Understand them. > >Get it? > Oh, I get it, but if that is your reasoning and your solution to your problem > and that of other loners out there, then it is you who is incredibly shallow. > Mike
– "Rivers belong where they can ramble Eagles belong where they can fly I’ve got to be where my spirit can run free Gotta find my corner of the sky."
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