I use to think about death and dying every day….
Question:
I do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Artemis wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > I don’t think this is an appropriate place to have a cold, intellectual > debate about the morality of suicide or of what leads to it. > — > For more information about this service, send e-mail to: > h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message > ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator > ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
Response:
Do you know that for sure? Been around lot’s of it, more than I care to discuss, so I’m not ignorant on the subject anyway. Hope this finds you well. Hugs Eddie (Chief) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Artemis wrote: > x-no-archive: yes > In a message dated Fri, 16 Apr 1999 17:12:59 -0400, spoo…@banet.net writes: > >I do. > >Artemis wrote: > >> x-no-archive: yes > >> I don’t think this is an appropriate place to have a cold, intellectual > >> debate about the morality of suicide or of what leads to it. > You are not suicidal… > — > For more information about this service, send e-mail to: > h…@anon.twwells.com — for an automatically returned help message > ad…@anon.twwells.com – for the service’s administrator > ano…@anon.twwells.com — anonymous mail to the administrator
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- Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> Thanks for your responses thus far. > These are not my rules – no way did I judge and make them up, etc. > For those searching for the truth, may you find that these are the same answers > you will find? > I have always gone in search of truth, and my reading and understanding > have found these answers. > People’s stories tend to reinforce what I have written. > I know that my suffering in life, may not compare to yours – I know that life > is extremely hard for some people, who do face more suffering and hardship > than others. And I was not going to approve an easier way out for them, > which is the wrong answer, for the reasons I stated. > The truth I search for, is not my truth, but truth – if it hurts, what can I > do about it? > There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep > trying. This NG may hint at some answers, but ultimately it is up to you > to implement the solution. There are many ways to tackle problems, try a > different way. > We are all individual in ourselves, so one solution does not suit all. > Read all you can about death and dying, if you think suicide is an answer. > There are lots of stories which shed light on what death is all about. > See what people’s stories tell you about it? > "Saved by the Light" is a good story, maybe readers can suggest others? > An important thing is to open your mind. See your life from another > perspective – try to see small changes which can make your life better, > and move towards it. > Hopefully in time, you will wake up that you have made that drastic > change in your life. You are much happier? > And your problems are not so big anymore… > We can debate this until eternity, and that is fine.
Thanks you for another wonderful stuff. All I can say is that a life needs choices in order to change. According to a physicist, a life without change is a dead life. I think one of the purposes of the life is to grow. This grows is part of the change. This painful life no matter whoes pain is needed a room to change. If we do not change, we are actually played as a victim. A victim has no choice. Then here is the question of what do we do with our loneliness. Well one thing I know I conscious do is when I feel lone is I look at the flowers. ———–== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==———- http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
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Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -> In article <371567DB.5FEBE…@ccms.net>, Lady…@ccms.net says… > >Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: > >> I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or > >> intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about > >> death, dying, suicide, whatever. > > Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance > >that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* > >"laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make > it > >sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and > >that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are > certainly > >entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe > these > >are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts > and > >some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a > >suggestion. Jae > I know that ultimately what I write is ALWAYS my opinion, just like everyone > else has their opinion – and are entitled to it. > I am not seeking any converts – and what I write will not change anyone’s > mind at all. When someone changes their view, it is because they want to. > I’m sorry if readers have found this post somewhat offensive. I did not > intend it to be. > I guess I get fed up with people wanting to know what is true or not. > I’ve been like that all my life – perhaps more fed up with the deceptions that > goes on in our world. I am a truthseeker – and I like to believe that > people do want to know the truth. > Suicide, etc should be discussed — out in the open. > It is too important an issue not to be. > We all know when we discuss beliefs – it is very personal, and all our beliefs > are different because we all come from different backgrounds, think > differently, have had different experiences, different ways of upbringing, etc. > You can discuss beliefs without going into a flame war, or getting very > emotional about it. > I can only guess there may be the fear of being shown that your belief > system has some irregularities to it. > Yet your belief system determines how you handle stress and difficulties in > life. > Be happy in your belief system, and you live a happier life? > Harvey
I believe we have a communication problem here. I did try to explain my position and I do not believe you understood it by the response you gave. Perhaps I failed to explain clearly enough or I simply am not able to understand your reponse. I don’t wish to close doors, but I have difficulty relating to some of your posts and I believe this particular thread is one of them. I don’t think you and I should continue discussing it. I believe we are too far apart in understanding. Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: > I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or > intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about > death, dying, suicide, whatever.
Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* "laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make it sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are certainly entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe these are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts and some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a suggestion. Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Jae writes>… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Frans wrote: >> Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. >> Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom >> Frans > It is my well considered opinion that the above statement contains so >much wisdom, that I intend to save it and use it, darlin’. > I would change it, with your permission, to read: >"Please learn to accept that a different belief is not a wrong belief." > Frans
No Jae, I value the wisdom much more, and the line you wrote is yours. You and others here thought me, remember…? So if you like to use it, sign with ASL, pleeeeaaase? Hugs Frans
Response:
Frans wrote: > Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. > Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom > Frans
It is my well considered opinion that the above statement contains so much wisdom, that I intend to save it and use it, darlin’. I would change it, with your permission, to read: "Please learn to accept that a different belief is not a wrong belief." Frans
Response:
>Ditto. >Hugs >Eddie (Chief)
<warm smile> Thank you Chief 
Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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Your Name Here – Harvey writes>… >I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or >intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about >death, dying, suicide, whatever. >If you talk with any family in which a suicide has occurred, you will get >the proper answer. How much an effect a suicide has. >People die all the time – but a suicide has even more sadness attached to it, >especially if the person is young, or still very active. >People who are high achievers, may particularly be prone to suicide? >Harvey
There are different worlds, different people and different opinions. Somewhere in our own minds we think "life is worth while" or "it’s not anymore". No other person can understand this. In The Netherlands the law permits help from professionals, under certain conditions, to end life. Yes, many people believe it should not be. But that’s a believe and cannot be argued, nor can be argued if a person has the right to end his/her life. Your statement is clear Harvey, you believe family is important, so their opinion is important. But in many other parts of the world, family is only important if they acted like family before. If not, you don’t have a family. You have to get used to that opinion (or believe) as well. In Japan you honour your family if you kill yourself after you brought disgrace to the family.This contradicts your way of thinking. Now, are they right, or are you? It’s a believe! Both opinions are right. Please learn to accept that a different believe is not a wrong believe. Try to understand these different opinions. It brings wisdom Frans
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> I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or >anyone >else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do >not feel >they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may >scream >and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs >to you >both, Jae
Thank you Jae, I just might take you up on that. Thank you for reaching out as you always do so kindly…. {hugs} <smile> Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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Jeneve23 wrote: > Matt wrote: > >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > >post in a full and proper manner. > >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > >provocative. > This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but > I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as > others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to > say that. > -Jenn
I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or anyone else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do not feel they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may scream and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs to you both, Jae — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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Still do. – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -YourName Here wrote: > And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. > It doesn’t make any sense to do it. > The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. > Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered > morally acceptable or whatever. > Here are those special circumstances, for those interested? > When you give your life to save another. Put your life at risk for them. > Purely by accident — only under conditions as above. Faked accidents > are not permitted, because you know it was so. And others know too. > Do not fool yourself, it will be seen as an accident when you know it was not. > When you’re near the end of your physical life here, in old age, or the > equivalent thereof, when each breath brings you pain, and the only > release from pain is death. These are apt conditions for euthanasia. > Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. > These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, > if you are searching for the truth of the matter. > If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, > in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is > never an answer. > The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, > and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you > found life here was. > It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is > a fact, you will return. > The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, > or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. > And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your > funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking > detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. > So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism > and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. > Helping others along the way, will help you along too. > Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what > you can find? > ICQ # 34604382 > Harvey
– Yours sincerely, Simon "If I never existed, some other unlucky bastard would be here to take my place and every morning, I remind myself that I’m doing this, not for me, but for that person, who’s at a better place right now…" — For PGP Public-Key, Finger Milky…@escape.net ICQ UIN #2086171 AIM NICK: SLVoid
Response:
In article <371567DB.5FEBE…@ccms.net>, Lady…@ccms.net says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->Your Name Here – Harvey wrote: >> I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or >> intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about >> death, dying, suicide, whatever. > Harvey, what is disturbing me and perhaps others here, is your insistance >that these opinions or views that you are stating are "Laws". They are *not* >"laws" to me. The may be laws to you and that’s fine. But, your words make it >sound as though you are stating that these are laws that apply to everyone and >that all must follow them. Your belief system is your own and you are certainly >entitled to post about it, but have you considered starting with, "I believe these >are laws" or something similiar? It might take the edge off some of your posts and >some might be less inclined to be upset when they read your words. Just a >suggestion. Jae
I know that ultimately what I write is ALWAYS my opinion, just like everyone else has their opinion – and are entitled to it. I am not seeking any converts – and what I write will not change anyone’s mind at all. When someone changes their view, it is because they want to. I’m sorry if readers have found this post somewhat offensive. I did not intend it to be. I guess I get fed up with people wanting to know what is true or not. I’ve been like that all my life – perhaps more fed up with the deceptions that goes on in our world. I am a truthseeker – and I like to believe that people do want to know the truth. Suicide, etc should be discussed — out in the open. It is too important an issue not to be. We all know when we discuss beliefs – it is very personal, and all our beliefs are different because we all come from different backgrounds, think differently, have had different experiences, different ways of upbringing, etc. You can discuss beliefs without going into a flame war, or getting very emotional about it. I can only guess there may be the fear of being shown that your belief system has some irregularities to it. Yet your belief system determines how you handle stress and difficulties in life. Be happy in your belief system, and you live a happier life? Harvey
Response:
In article <7f3lao$pe…@twwells.com>, anon-21…@anon.twwells.com says… >x-no-archive: yes >In a message dated 14 Apr 1999 21:56:52 GMT, y…@somehost.somedomain writes: >>There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep >>trying. >Why? No, don’t answer that. Because you can’t possibly know.
No one really knows what it’s like living another person’s life, and the difficulties they face. You don’t have to look far to see people who have faced enormous difficulties, and have lived a hard life [I'm not writing about people in ASL here, within my own family I see tortured and screwed up lives]. No one in my family has committed suicide, but two came close in their own way – one includes my mother. Yes – life is unfair to some people for sure. No doubt about it. I will keep on repeating, that those laws, etc are not my laws or intrepretation — they are there, if you read as much as you can about death, dying, suicide, whatever. If you talk with any family in which a suicide has occurred, you will get the proper answer. How much an effect a suicide has. People die all the time – but a suicide has even more sadness attached to it, especially if the person is young, or still very active. People who are high achievers, may particularly be prone to suicide? Harvey
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Ditto. Hugs Eddie (Chief) – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text -Jae wrote: > Jeneve23 wrote: > > Matt wrote: > > >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > > >post in a full and proper manner. > > >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > > >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > > >provocative. > > This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but > > I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as > > others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to > > say that. > > -Jenn > I do not wish you to upset yourself, Jenn, but if either you or Matt or anyone > else that feels the need to at least tell someone of their feelings and do not feel > they wish to post, please know that my mailbox is open to you and you may scream > and yell and swear and all that you say shall never leave my mailbox. Hugs to you > both, Jae > — > "And the inconceivable task begins….. > To find wholeness from within….." > Author Unknown
Response:
Read Jill’s story (75 lines) in the thread above:: Is it OK to take my own life? for those who think it’s OK to take your own life. Don’t be so selfish when you take your own life. Your life does ripple through to other people, and your death will affect more people than you would imagine. Any child that knows you will be deeply affected. ICQ # 34604382 Harvey
Response:
In article <924090940.587…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, y…@somehost.somedomain says… > And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. > It doesn’t make any sense to do it.
That depends. I could give reasons as to why it would make sense to me. > The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life.
I disagree, I cannot stand the madness of this world. Do I shut it away and pretend it isnt there? Do I face it head on and embrace the pain it causes me? Or do I end the pain? > Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way.
<SIGH> Am I about to enter yet another flame war? Do you want me to unleash the angry beast within? Do you realise how patronising and insulting those words are? > These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, > if you are searching for the truth of the matter.
Now THATS a cop-out. > If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, > in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is > never an answer.
Oh dear – pure unproven speculation. > The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, > and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you > found life here was. > It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is > a fact, you will return.
And if it is not a fact, then you will not return. > The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, > or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. > And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your > funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking > detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. > So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism > and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. > Helping others along the way, will help you along too. > Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what > you can find?
I think that you just posted this to wind people up. Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* upset me somewhat. However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this post in a full and proper manner. Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly provocative. Matt
Response:
Matt wrote: >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this >post in a full and proper manner. >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly >provocative.
This is a very touchy subject for me. There is a lot i would like to say but I’m going to refrain as well because I fear I will upset myself as well as others. You are not alone in feeling upset by this topic matt. I just wanted to say that. -Jenn
Response:
Matt wrote: > I think that you just posted this to wind people up. > Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* > upset me somewhat. > However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this > post in a full and proper manner. > Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you > have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly > provocative. > Matt
I do not think soft words will soothe the savage beast, darlin’, or I would find some for you. <smile> Each person, especially those who have lived with the desire to leave this world, has a view of suicide that may or may not agree with anyone else’s. Suicide appears to be one choice, that I consider to be a personal choice, that many others seem to feel is not. I have fought others for their right to make that choice and I expect that I will do so again. Some here, I have fought because of my selfishness. I do not wish to lose them from my life. I do not think that attempting to make people who are already suffering from whatever makes them wish to leave this world, suffer also from guilt is productive. But, that is my opinion. Many seem to make rules for when suicide is "permissable". Their rules or opinions are based on their own experiences or their upbringing or beliefs. They seem to be able to understand how unrelenting physical pain can make someone wish to leave, but cannot understand that unrelenting emotional pain is a form of moment to moment suffering that is just as debilitating, just as harmful to quality of life. Some people do not seem to realize or be able to understand that when they insist that someone does not have the choice unless the "reason" for suicide fits their narrow moral view, that it can be not only provacative, but insulting to the intelligence of those who maintain that the choice is theirs and who are staying moment to moment in this world in spite of their suffering because at this particular moment in time, they have chosen to do so. I do not advocate suicide, but I believe I have at least some understanding of it and of the desire to use it as a method to end suffering. Whether that suffering be emotional or physical. Taking what another poster (who I will not name as he x-no-archived his post) said in his response to Akira, until you exercise your choice of ending your life, you still have it to use as an option. It is my opinion that as long as you draw breath, there is a chance of things changing for you. Your choice, your chance of change is ended once you exercise the option to take your own life. I know, Matt, that your fight within yourself to continue choosing to stay in this world, is ongoing and I admire your courage to stay and fight for your own life as well as to stay with us here and try to help others. I know that your rage is a part of your suffering and caused in part by the choice you make to stay and the fight to continue making that choice. I admire your courage to share that with us. Hugs, darlin’…….Jae’ — "And the inconceivable task begins….. To find wholeness from within….." Author Unknown
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In article <MPG.117f2208e9847506989…@news.freeuk.net>, M…@myhome36.freeserve.co.uk says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->In article <924090940.587…@Chaos.es.co.nz>, y…@somehost.somedomain >says… >> And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. >> It doesn’t make any sense to do it. >That depends. I could give reasons as to why it would make sense to me. >> The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. >I disagree, I cannot stand the madness of this world. Do I shut it away >and pretend it isnt there? Do I face it head on and embrace the pain it >causes me? Or do I end the pain? >> Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. >> It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not >> rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. ><SIGH> Am I about to enter yet another flame war? >Do you want me to unleash the angry beast within? >Do you realise how patronising and insulting those words are? >> These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, >> if you are searching for the truth of the matter. >Now THATS a cop-out. >> If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, >> in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is >> never an answer. >Oh dear – pure unproven speculation. >> The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, >> and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you >> found life here was. >> It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is >> a fact, you will return. >And if it is not a fact, then you will not return. >> The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, >> or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. >> And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your >> funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking >> detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. >> So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism >> and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. >> Helping others along the way, will help you along too. >> Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >> you can find? >I think that you just posted this to wind people up. >Unfortunately I am not in the best of moods right now and this post *has* >upset me somewhat. >However, as I care so much for ASL I will refrain from replying to this >post in a full and proper manner. >Suffice it to say that I am in complete disagreement with everything you >have said, and that I think your post is ill thought out and highly >provocative. >Matt
It doesn’t bother me one bit to discuss [not flame] this touchy subject. I am aware of all the arguments about it — but of course, I do not know your personal reference point and your experiences, etc. Why not discuss it in a civilised manner, point by point? Throw some light on the subject, instead of dismissing it so promptly. Come back to it, when you’re in the mood —- and really discuss it. I know my views will not be liked or agreed with, and only a few will agree? That is fine – we are what we are. I seek to understand, because with understanding your mind grows. Harvey ICQ # 34604382
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And no way would I ever think about carrying out suicide. It doesn’t make any sense to do it. The world may be mad, but it’s madder to take your own life. Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered morally acceptable or whatever. Here are those special circumstances, for those interested? When you give your life to save another. Put your life at risk for them. Purely by accident — only under conditions as above. Faked accidents are not permitted, because you know it was so. And others know too. Do not fool yourself, it will be seen as an accident when you know it was not. When you’re near the end of your physical life here, in old age, or the equivalent thereof, when each breath brings you pain, and the only release from pain is death. These are apt conditions for euthanasia. Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way. These are not MY reasons and views – rather it is found in whatever you find, if you are searching for the truth of the matter. If you knew that suicide only brings you back sooner, into another life, in which you have to live out the rest of the previous life —- suicide is never an answer. The best solution [in the long term] is to live out your life to it’s fullest, and you can promise never to return here again, because of how difficult you found life here was. It does not matter if you do or do not believe in reincarnation – if it is a fact, you will return. The same with life after death, it does not matter whether you believe in it, or not, if there is such a thing — everyone will survive death. And what would your suicide serve, if this is the case — you’ll see your funeral and those who mourn you. You will review your life in painstaking detail — guess who will judge you? You yourself will. So make the best you can out of this life – not in terms of materialism and success, but in overcoming the odds and overcoming your difficulties. Helping others along the way, will help you along too. Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what you can find? ICQ # 34604382 Harvey
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> Loneliness and a broken heart do not count as a excuse for suicide. > It is not justification, it is a cop out on your part for not > rising up to the difficulties that we all face in our own way.
Sometimes we just can’t take it any longer. There’s a limit to everything. Do you have any idea how many years I’ve been suffering?
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>Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered >morally acceptable or whatever.
It makes me very uncomfrtable when people start telling others what is "morally acceptable". >Here are those special circumstances, >for those interested?
You set forth in your post a set of rules as to when it is ok to die and when it is not. Do you not see anything a little strange in that? >Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >you can find?
I understand, Harvey, that you are trying to help others and inspire others to try and overcome the obstacles in their lives. That, in and of itself shows what a kind heart you have. I just question your approach and way of thinking. I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own fate. Regards, Jenn {Hugs} members.aol.com/jeneve23/enter.html *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ *+ * I need some distraction oh beautiful release memory seeps from my veins let me be empty and weightless and maybe I’ll find some peace tonight – S.McLachlan
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In article <19990414151725.11151.00000…@ng-ca1.aol.com>, jenev…@aol.com says… – Hide quoted text — Show quoted text ->>Only under very special circumstances, will it ever be considered >>morally acceptable or whatever. >It makes me very uncomfrtable when people start telling others what is >"morally acceptable". >>Here are those special circumstances, >for those interested? > You set forth in your post a set of rules as to when it is ok to die and when >it is not. Do you not see anything a little strange in that? >>Am I making all of this up? No. Search yourself for the answers and see what >>you can find? >I understand, Harvey, that you are trying to help others and inspire others to >try and overcome the obstacles in their lives. That, in and of itself shows >what a kind heart you have. I just question your approach and way of thinking. >I believe that everyone has the right to choose their own fate. >Regards, Jenn >{Hugs}
Thanks for your responses thus far. These are not my rules – no way did I judge and make them up, etc. For those searching for the truth, may you find that these are the same answers you will find? I have always gone in search of truth, and my reading and understanding have found these answers. People’s stories tend to reinforce what I have written. I know that my suffering in life, may not compare to yours – I know that life is extremely hard for some people, who do face more suffering and hardship than others. And I was not going to approve an easier way out for them, which is the wrong answer, for the reasons I stated. The truth I search for, is not my truth, but truth – if it hurts, what can I do about it? There are solutions to your problems – go in search, never give up, keep trying. This NG may hint at some answers, but ultimately it is up to you to implement the solution. There are many ways to tackle problems, try a different way. We are all individual in ourselves, so one solution does not suit all. Read all you can about death and dying, if you think suicide is an answer. There are lots of stories which shed light on what death is all about. See what people’s stories tell you about it? "Saved by the Light" is a good story, maybe readers can suggest others? An important thing is to open your mind. See your life from another perspective – try to see small changes which can make your life better, and move towards it. Hopefully in time, you will wake up that you have made that drastic change in your life. You are much happier? And your problems are not so big anymore… We can debate this until eternity, and that is fine. Harvey ICQ # 34604382
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